Triple7Lr
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DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:12 pm

This is the second press release in two days about the divested DCA slots from the AA/US merger.


Yesterday:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2173

Today:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2175

Do they have a chance at picking up slots? Could they pick up all the slots they gave up to US in the swap a few years ago?
 
airliner371
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:16 pm

The DOJ will not allow; it but they can try.... I do think they will at least get one gate at DAL though.

[Edited 2013-11-13 12:18:27]
 
AADC10
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:19 pm

It is unlikely. When US and DL swapped slots, the divested slots were all given to carriers with smaller slot portfolios. Unless DL proposes some thin route that serves some congressmen, it will probably go to an LCC. I am sure DL would like to have them, along with UA but neither is too likely.
 
tlecam
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:35 pm

Who regulates the slot sale?
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ldvaviation
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 4):
Who regulates the slot sale?

For the slots that aren't already leased and will be sold to the current lessees, the DOJ will qualify the buyers and send a list to AA.

AA will negotiate with the buyers itself. Even if Delta got on the list of qualified buyers, it seems from what was said on AA's conference call yesterday that AA does not have to make a deal.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
The DOJ will not allow

At least the government isn't picking the winners and losers in the private market anymore.....they're just picking the companies that will even be allowed to participate.

At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?
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Flytravel
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

I don't think it's LCCs but it's WN is still a limited incumbent carrier at DCA, even though it's huge in WAS because of BWI. DL isn't a limited incumbent carrier at DCA though.
 
airliner371
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
At what point are people going to stop coddling the so-called LCCs and make them compete on their own merits? WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

I would point to Flytravel's post below...

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 6):
I don't think it's LCCs but it's WN is still a limited incumbent carrier at DCA

Exactly, what does it matter if they are the largest domestic airline, they are a limited incumbent carrier at DCA and LGA and that is all that matters in this case.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:06 pm

I think they have a shot, although it's slim. I don't see what they have to lose unless they're dropping a lot of money to just pursue this option (I don't see how that would happen.) Worst case they'll get nothing, the same as if they didn't try. Best case they'll get them all which again, is unlikely, but there really is no cost for just trying. There is plenty of middle ground in picking up a couple DCA slots which I wouldn't be surprised to see.

Maybe it's my fanboyism getting in the way, but I don't see it really fair to deny DL and UA from even getting a couple slots. I don't see why WN and B6 or whoever need to get them all. Legacy carriers can still bring something to the table
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
they are a limited incumbent carrier at DCA
WN is bigger at DCA than United is. Does this mean UA is a limited incumbent carrier and is therefore eligible to bid on the DCA slots?

United's market share at LGA is less than 2% more than JBU but according to USAir's Johnson, DL and UA "need not apply"

From Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/...r-national-slots/?partner=yahootix

“We anticipate it will be only low cost carriers, seven or eight low cost carriers,” Johnson said. “We don’t expect the list will include any of the legacy carriers. We are allowed to negotiate sales of the slots with any of those qualified buyers as we see fit.” He noted that DOJ will not permit all the slots to be sold to one buyer.

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:28:06]
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FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):
WN is bigger at DCA than United is.

UA is substantially larger than WN at DCA.

UA flies 1x SFO, 1x DEN, 15x ORD, 8x IAH, 5x CLE and 8x EWR. 38 daily departures

WN flies 4x MKE, 1x RSW, 2x HOU, 2x STL, 1x AUS, 6x ATL. 16 daily departures

Generally, anyone with fewer than 20 departures is considered a limited incumbent.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:40 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Legacy carriers can still bring something to the table

Exactly...how many Star Alliance FFs are there around DC that earned their status on either UA or US? *A gold/platinum status does no good if most of your flight options are now OW at the airport where you earned your status. If the DOJ criteria includes benefit to customers, that might be something to consider.


oops. I referenced the wrong dates on the DCA data...sorry UA has 7.5% market share at DCA.

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:44:52]

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:47:42]
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Polot
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 11):
Exactly...how many Star Alliance FFs are there around DC that earned their status on either UA or US? *A gold/platinum status does no good if most of your flight options are now OW at the airport where you earned your status. If the DOJ criteria includes benefit to customers, that might be something to consider.

They shouldn't. Price is what matters to the government, not alliance. If someone is based in DC and use to fly exclusively US/UA and earn miles for Star they will likely stick with the new AA/US (barring major service changes) and instead will just become OW junkies. How Star will keep their customers is Star's problem, not the DOJ.

What do you think happened to all the frequent flyers based in EWR/IAH when CO moved to Star? Do you think they stuck with Skyteam?

[Edited 2013-11-13 14:55:58]
 
airliner371
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):

At LaGuarda, United operates 41 departures, Southwest operates 27, JetBlue operates 17. At Reagan, United operates 38 departures, JetBlue operates 18 and Southwest operates 16. So, United is not a limited incumbent carrier at either airport and WN and B6 are. That is why legacies should not and will not be included.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 9):
Does this mean UA is a limited incumbent carrier and is therefore eligible to bid on the DCA slots?

Nope.

[Edited 2013-11-13 15:09:23]
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:37 pm

Got it..I was looking at market share instead of number of flights.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:01 am

I think they need to tell Delta to shove off. Between their current massive size, their assertive growth at SEA/LAX/BOS/ other locations, and the fact that AAUS will be required to divest slots at LGA even though DL is bigger - sorry Delta. Good try.  

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coronado
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:41 am

Well if there is money to be paid for the slot divestiture, nothing wrong with driving up the bidding!
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B757capt
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting Coronado (Reply 16):

This is exactly what AA/US Scott Kirby said to employees. He said let DL bid so they can get a high return on the assets!
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
klkla
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:43 am

Delta's argument that "Small- and medium-sized communities nationwide could experience a reduction or elimination of flights to key airports if the divestiture is limited to low-cost carriers, which typically do not provide service to small communities" has to at least be considered. It's a legitimate argument.

I'm not predicting that the rules will be changed but DL has successfully made these left-field arguments before and won (HND move to SEA, additional GRU frequencies to ATL, e.t.c...)
 
ldvaviation
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:13 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 18):
Delta's argument that "Small- and medium-sized communities nationwide could experience a reduction or elimination of flights to key airports if the divestiture is limited to low-cost carriers, which typically do not provide service to small communities" has to at least be considered. It's a legitimate argument.

I'm not predicting that the rules will be changed but DL has successfully made these left-field arguments before and won (HND move to SEA, additional GRU frequencies to ATL, e.t.c...)


That argument worked on the DOT. The DOJ will be qualifying the applicants here on the basis of whether or not they are "limited incumbents" and not (from what I have read) on the basis of their commitment to serve small communities.

Moreover, given Delta's track record, do we really believe it would maintain service to those small communities? The slots that it would be getting are conventional air carrier slots, not commuter slots. Once in Delta's possession, those slots could be used for whatever "perimeter" route and whatever plane they wanted.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:40 am

Forgive my ignorance, but Whats to stop AA/US from selling them to a "friendly" carrier….say B6….then do a codeshare?
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capitalflyer
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:46 am

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 19):
do we really believe it would maintain service to those small communities?

Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to. MEM? CVG? I don't see them flying to Fayetteville AR any time soon.
 
Flytravel
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to. MEM? CVG? I don't see them flying to Fayetteville AR any time soon.

Probably a market like TYS. Small enough that WN/B6 lack service to it, but large enough in the Southeast US where DL would enjoy servicing both LGA and DCA while being dominant with connections through ATL. I doubt AA would discontinue it's service on TYS-DCA though.

With AA having to give up DCA slots, it likely reduces any chances for new markets from AA being offered to DCA like GRR-DCA.

I think WN and B6 could easily counter the DL argument but it might mean a commitment on a route like on DCA-GRR than what WN might want to run many frequencies on like DCA-DAL. Even Sun Country flies LAN-DCA and isn't LAN a small market?

WN could likely move some marginal BWI routes to DCA. This could help O&D but there wouldn't be as great connection feed. B6 has some already existing small markets in upstate NY it could link to DCA. Also, SRQ and a few Florida markets, not FLL MCO TPA, could be viewed as small markets. Maybe B6 would consider DCA-SRQ.

[Edited 2013-11-13 21:14:19]
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:23 am

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 21):
Exactly. I would be curious what "small and medium sized cities" Delta wants to fly to.

Well, judging by their past at DCA, I would say OMA, MSN, and GRR. Those were three of the last flights to go when they trimmed DCA back after the slot swap, and they are three solid markets where DL is very strong. They were previously flown using CR7/CR9 equipment, which seems like the right amount of plane. DL could restart those three and maybe JAN if the slots get divided up into chunks of 4 pairs and the DOJ allows DL to compete.

As someone living in Madison I'm biased, but I would love to see this happen.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:47 pm

It is worth a try, why not.

I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop. The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

If WN can bid on DCA slots, let DL have a fair shake at DAL gates.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
UA flies 1x SFO, 1x DEN

Two more slot pairs -- one each for SFO and DEN -- making it possible to go and return the same day -- would be a really useful addition to UA's slot portfolio.   

OTOH, some see DL's whining simply as Gordon Gekko's "greed is good."

[Edited 2013-11-14 07:16:13]
 
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Polot
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):

Two more slot pairs -- one each for SFO and DEN -- making it possible to go and return the same day -- would be a really useful addition to UA's slot portfolio.

Those would require beyond perimeter slots. Even if they were available I doubt UA would get 2 of them.
 
CargoIT
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:35 pm

The Forbes article say 52 slot pairs are to be divested at DCA. Based on some figures in this thread, if WN and B6 both doubled their operation at DCA it would only take 34 of the pairs. I think the DOJ is hoping for carriers like NK, F9, G4, SY... bidding on the slots. I don't think any one of these carriers would take more than 3-4 pairs. This could very well leave a few slots for non LCCs like DL or UA.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop. The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

Amen!!!



I think this is going to come down to WN and B6 being the most slot-hungry airlines, but that's just my gut feeling. I don't know what F9/SY would do with them and NK left DCA for BWI on their own.

I'm interested to see what DL would do with additional slots, but it'd probably be more flying to DL's major spokes.
 
Flytravel
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
NK left DCA for BWI on their own.
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture. If it had enough DCA slots, like it does at LGA, it would likely prefer being back at DCA.

[Edited 2013-11-14 08:14:15]
 
Mir
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
I agree with the whole idea of coddling WN needs to stop.

   They should be able to get first crack at the slots that they already lease from AA at LGA, but that's it. If they want to get into new slot-restricted markets, let them bid for it with everyone else.

Hell, they already got a virtual monopoly handed to them at DAL. Not sure they're in a position to ask for much else.

-Mir
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a380787
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:23 pm

I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

I wonder for the slots to be surrendered, who decides them ? AA deciding the highest bidder, or allocated directly by DOT ?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
The FL/WN merger has been the most damaging of all for consumers and for many smaller/mid-sized communities as well.

Hardly. The WN/FL merger didn't force entire hubs to be shutdown like what DL has done. Most communities that lost MEM/CVG service, did not get all (or even some) of that capacity back. This was far more damaging to far more communities than WN/FL which admittedly hurt some cities.

I don't have a problem with DL bidding on DAL gates. However, DL bidding on DCA slots is a bit ridiculous. First, DL already dumped a bunch of DCA slots, so clearly DCA isn't that important to them. Second, DL can't viably serve DCA from most small markets either and they know it. If DL launched DCA-TYS or DCA-CHS, they would bleed red ink.
 
usflyguy
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:45 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 5):
WN is bigger domestically than any carrier yet because some people think they're always cheaper, they should have everything handed to them. Does WN really need preferential consideration for another competitors domestic assets?

where's the preferential treatment?

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
They should be able to get first crack at the slots that they already lease from AA at LGA, but that's it. If they want to get into new slot-restricted markets, let them bid for it with everyone else.

DING. DING. DING. That's exactly what's happening.

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
Hell, they already got a virtual monopoly handed to them at DAL. Not sure they're in a position to ask for much else.

How's that? There are empty gates and underutilized gates sitting at love field right now that can be used by anyone that wants to sign a lease with AA or UA to use their gates.
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kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 29):
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture. If it had enough DCA slots, like it does at LGA, it would likely prefer being back at DCA.

Maybe in the short term, but when I look at how fast NK is growing I think differently. While they could get more slots and grow DCA to an extent, there is still a ceiling. Not to say that BWI has unlimited growth potential, but they could grow their operation there quickly and painlessly as they please instead of going through the slot and gate struggle at DCA.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

The NK crowd is not vastly different from the WN crowd or the FL crowd, just less suits in most cases.
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
OTOH, some see DL's whining simply as Gordon Gekko's "greed is good."


How does Delta wanting to be able to bid for the slots constitute "whining?
If you were running DL, would you not be seeking the slots? We are a capitalist country after all.
 
Mir
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 33):
There are empty gates and underutilized gates sitting at love field right now that can be used by anyone that wants to sign a lease with AA or UA to use their gates.

In other words, they can't be used by anyone if AA or UA doesn't want to lease them. The government basically said that everyone who was already in DAL could stay, and anyone who wasn't in DAL already would have to look elsewhere. Not exactly "setting Love free", is it?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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mariner
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:01 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 23):
Well, judging by their past at DCA, I would say OMA, MSN, and GRR.

At least in theory, Delta could get its hands on two of those now, without the divestiture.

The relationship between Republic and Frontier will end in a few weeks and the slots for OMA/MSN/MCI-DCA are held by Republic and cannot be sold or transferred to Frontier.

So I assume Republic is looking for a partner carrier to be able to continue to use the slots - Delta?

mariner
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal

Yes, because we don't want the filthy masses mingling with the politicians and their gaggle of wealthy friends. That would be ludicrous.....  
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 35):
If you were running DL, would you not be seeking the slots? We are a capitalist country after all.

They can seek all they want, but they should be told to pound sand. Or perhaps give up some of the LGA slots that they got when they chose to give up some of these very slots to US. Or is it Have-Your-Cake-and-Eat-it-Too week in Atlanta?

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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 33):
where's the preferential treatment?

WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger? Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

But SY, NK, F9, B6, G4, etc will all be allowed to bid as well.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

No they weren't. UA chose to divest the slots to smooth things over, but they were never required to do so.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):

What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger?

WN didn't have a majority holding of slots at any restricted airport, so there was no reason for them to divest.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.

And to all the other airlines, they say "You're welcome".

-Dave
-Dave
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 40):
No they weren't. UA chose to divest the slots to smooth things over, but they were never required to do so.

You sure about that? Or was this one of those "you've got a nice merger there...shame if anything happened to it" type of agreement?

http://communique.atlastravel.com/sep10/2.htm
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kgaiflyer
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
NK left DCA for BWI on their own.
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 29):
NK probably regrets that move in light of the merger being approved with the slot divestiture.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 38):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):I'd much prefer B6 and WN get those slots than someone like NK, which would turn DCA into a greyhound terminal
Yes, because we don't want the filthy masses mingling with the politicians and their gaggle of wealthy friends. That would be ludicrous.....

I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 40):
But SY, NK, F9, B6, G4, etc will all be allowed to bid as well.

Having the bright, attractively painted G4 planes at DCA would be a treat for the landscape. Perhaps they could occupy the niche formerly held by NK.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:43 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 43):
I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

I never said otherwise. I was replying to A380787's elitist comment.

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Polot
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 42):
You sure about that? Or was this one of those "you've got a nice merger there...shame if anything happened to it" type of agreement?

Well yes, UA/CO were likely going to be forced to get rid of slots of EWR to get the merger approved. But the government technically never forced/required UA to do so (they did it themselves before the government could) and the government never forced UA to sell them (all) to WN. UA did that themselves knowing that the minute they did that the strongest possible LCC opponent to the merge would change its mind.
 
airliner371
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 45):
Well yes, UA/CO were likely going to be forced to get rid of slots of EWR to get the merger approved. But the government technically never forced/required UA to do so (they did it themselves before the government could) and the government never forced UA to sell them (all) to WN

And in fact, the slots were never sold, they are leased by Southwest from United.
 
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:38 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 45):

Sorry to say but you are trying to re-write history here. When the government came out and said they would approve the merger between CO/UA one of the (very) few stipulations was that they would have to give up the slots in EWR. This was not something CO/UA just willingly decided to do in advance. It was one of the points of approval set out by the government.
 
Flytravel
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:30 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 43):
I've been in BWI twice in two weeks. The NK ticket counter always had a long line. The airport and people of the catchment area are supporting them. There is no business reason for them to return to DCA.

I have no doubt that it's filling planes, but I was thinking in terms of potential growth. But I missed the fact of the longer distance that NK is now flying.

IWith BWI it can fly longer routes to cities like LAS. With DCA, it targets the center of the WAS market better though and it could stimulate popular in perimeter routes, like it does with LGA-ORD for fares like $80 one-way.

Probably NK will continue to expand in the Sunbelt and my guess is it makes a dedicated move on PHX. For BWI that could mean PHX-BWI being added.

Although unlikely it'd link MSP with BWI, It would be interesting for them to get on MSP-BWI before WN does.

[Edited 2013-11-14 16:56:33]
 
usflyguy
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RE: DL Looking To Regain DCA Slots?

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
In other words, they can't be used by anyone if AA or UA doesn't want to lease them. The government basically said that everyone who was already in DAL could stay, and anyone who wasn't in DAL already would have to look elsewhere. Not exactly "setting Love free", is it?
Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
WN will be allowed to bid on slots while (according to most articles), DL and UA will not.

They could most certainly bid on slots if they were LIMITED INCUMBENTS.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
UA was forced to divest slots/assets at EWR to an LCC as a condition of their merger.

Please provide us with an official document stating such. As far as I can recall, these were leased to WN, along with gates, before the government even made such "demand".

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
What was WN forced to divest as a condition of their merger?

What should have WN been forced to divest? Gates at HOU? There are empty gates sitting there right now. Gates at BWI? There are empty gates sitting there now. MDW? It has 3 empty gates. OAK? Plenty of empty gates there. SNA is the only slot controlled airport that WN has a majority of the slots and FL didn't serve SNA and there are slots being returned to the airport by other carriers so if someone else wants slots, they're there for the taking.

CLT and ATL are 2 of the biggest gate constrained airports in the country and neither DL/NW nor AA/US were/are required to divest of gates at either.

You do realize that they are required to divest because they were both operating at airports with limited resources be that gates or slots, right? FL didn't operate at DAL prior to the acquisition so that really holds no bearing.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
Additionally, the WN merger actually removed an entire LCC from playing field.

The merger of US/AA is removing an entire "legacy" airline from the playing field, so what exactly is your point?
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