seatback
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Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:35 pm

Boy, the PR team in Atlanta has been busy this week.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...pansion-dallas-love-140000850.html

I believe Delta still has a lot of FF in the DFW area from the old hub days, this expansion may be a way to build on that foundation. However, if AA couldn't make a go of it, not sure how Delta thinks they will.

18 daily flights from two gates seems to be a lot. Especially when those flights are likely to be timed so close together.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:41 pm

Interesting:

DL is proposing:

DAL:
DTW
MSP
LGA
LAX
additional ATL flights

I would've figured we would potentially see DFW-LAX first.
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
Interesting:

DL is proposing:

DAL:
DTW
MSP
LGA
LAX
additional ATL flights

I would've figured we would potentially see DFW-LAX first.

Was there no SLC? That's highly interesting.
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Two more things...
1) expect a cut at DFW.
2) Thus begins what I've been saying is going to happen. Every airline that WN irritates by adding their hub from DAL will be trying to get into DAL's artificially tight gate inventory.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Man are they working overtime trying desperately to get in on the AA/US divestitures. We'll see how far they get. With specific respect to DAL, they're obviously hoping to get an asymmetric advantage over AA in the DFW local market by being able to offer nonstop flights in core AA markets (LGA, LAX) from DAL as opposed to DFW. We'll see what low-fare competitors - like B6, which has lobbied for DAL access in the past - have to say about that.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Was there no SLC? That's highly interesting.

What does it gain them that LAX doesn't?
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Man are they working overtime trying desperately to get in on the AA/US divestitures.

They are smart enough to have known all year that this would be happening.
 
seatback
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Man are they working overtime trying desperately to get in on the AA/US divestitures. We'll see how far they get. With specific respect to DAL, they're obviously hoping to get an asymmetric advantage over AA in the DFW local market by being able to offer nonstop flights in core AA markets (LGA, LAX) from DAL as opposed to DFW. We'll see what low-fare competitors - like B6, which has lobbied for DAL access in the past - have to say about that.

I guess we'll see soon from AA:

LAX-ATL
LAX-MSP
LAX-DTW

As a side note, AA would be smart to "fund" some of the research behind developing a second Atlanta airport.  
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
They are smart enough to have known all year that this would be happening.

True, but I doubt that's got much to do with the behavior we're seeing from Delta. I think the bigger issue is that statements from the DOJ and the airlines seem to imply that Delta (and United) "need not apply" for the divested assets.

Quoting seatback (Reply 7):
I guess we'll see soon from AA:

LAX-ATL
LAX-MSP
LAX-DTW

It will be interested to see if AA "retaliates" at all, and if so, how. I would think LAX-ATL and potentially upgauging LGA-ATL to mainline (freeing up some soon-to-be-divested LGA slots in the process  ) might be to plausible ones. I still don't think AA seems all that worried about DAL, anyway, though - with or without DAL trying to shift DFW service there.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:08 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Was there no SLC? That's highly interesting.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
What does it gain them that LAX doesn't?

A lot more connection opportunities than are currently available at LAX (without a double connection)/
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:22 pm

I assume rhese flts are after the WA expires or are they all RJ?
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Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 9):
A lot more connection opportunities than are currently available at LAX (without a double connection)

Certainly, but LAX is a much larger local market and, save for DEN, offers connections to the largest markets without a significant geographic disadvantage.

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
I still don't think AA seems all that worried about DAL, anyway, though - with or without DAL trying to shift DFW service there.

Keep in mind that DL is the largest legacy by a fair amount at other secondary airports like MDW and HOU (indeed, the only legacy at MDW), so it's not unreasonable to think that, without gate restrictions, DL would be fairly large and reasonably successful at DAL.
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 10):
I assume rhese flts are after the WA expires or are they all RJ?

These changes are effective October 2014, so after the Wright Amendment.

In order for Delta to make this work, they have to expect to get control of both AA gates at DAL. I'm not sure if it's realistic to force them entirely out of the airport even though AA doesn't use them currently. I could see them taking control of one AA gate, but then they'd have to go after a WN gate for further expansion.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:29 pm

This is the part of the press release that I don't understand:

Quote:
Delta will require access to gates at Love Field in order to operate its expanded schedule. Delta has asked the U.S. Department of Justice to allow it to bid on Love Field gates as part of the divestiture of airport assets under a proposed settlement agreement with American Airlines and US Airways.

None of the airlines "own" their gates at Love Field. WN, UA, & AA all have preferential-use leases. AA subleases its gates to Seaport and Delta.

If you read the agreement to end the Wright Amendment:

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/dal_ResolveWrightAmendment.pdf

there were provisions that applied onlyto AA and WN that if either initiated flights at another airport within an 80-mile radius, they would have to give up some of their gate leases. The gates would revert back to Love Field and they would be made available to other carriers to lease.

So AA is giving up the gates it currently leases from Love Field. (not because they are initiating service at another airport within an 80-mile radius of Love Field, but as part of the divestiture related to the merger.) When Delta's press release says the want to "bid" on the gates, it makes it sound like they are wanting to buy them, but I don't think that is even possible. I would also hope that AA's gates are leased to another carrier on a first-come first-served basis and it looks like DL is first.

Why does Delta need permission from the DOJ to enter into a lease agreement with Love Field? That's the part I don't understand.

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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:35 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 1):
DL is proposing:

DAL:
DTW
MSP
LGA
LAX
additional ATL flights

I would've figured we would potentially see DFW-LAX first.

Why not SEA?
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 13):
Why does Delta need permission from the DOJ to enter into a lease agreement with Love Field? That's the part I don't understand.

Because the DOJ is forcing the divestiture as part of the merger agreement and they want to make sure the reason for the divestiture (to increase competition) is kept and no funny business is involved.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 15):
Because the DOJ is forcing the divestiture as part of the merger agreement and they want to make sure the reason for the divestiture (to increase competition) is kept and no funny business is involved.

This is what the Dallas Morning News had to say about it.

Delta Air Lines wants gates at Dallas Love Field

Quote:
Delta Air Lines said Wednesday that it would like to acquire the two gates at Dallas Love Field that American Airlines is giving up in a lawsuit settlement.

The problem is that the lead attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice in the lawsuit made clear that the DOJ wants the gates at seven airports and takeoff and landing slots to go to airlines other than Delta and other “legacy” carriers.

“We see the legacy carriers as part of the problem. We see low-cost carriers as a key part of the solution,” DOJ attorney Bill Baer said as he discussed the settlement. The deal would allow the American-US Airways merger to proceed.
OK, that's all well and good, but Love Field already has a low-cost carrier that accounts for 95% of the passengers. It seems like Love Field would be the one airport where the DOJ would want more legacy carriers.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-11-14 07:57:34]
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:04 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 9):
A lot more connection opportunities than are currently available at LAX (without a double connection)/
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Was there no SLC? That's highly interesting.

What does it gain them that LAX doesn't?

That question is why it's highly interesting. At the point that you ask what does SLC offer a major spoke like DAL and the answer is NOTHING, you have to wonder if it will remain a hub long term. Also, WN will surely fly DAL-SLC.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 16):
OK, that's all well and good, but Love Field already has a low-cost carrier that accounts for 95% of the passengers. It seems like Love Field would be the one airport where the DOJ would want more legacy carriers.

I'd argue they they don't. WN is neither low-cost or low-fare, and they are now more of a network carrier than ever. LCC's now are NK, G4 (future F9) etc.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:12 pm

The entire Love Field situation is really jacked and should not be part of this settlement. Long term, I wonder how DAL is really going to work. You can't have proper competition from one airline that has 95 percent of the capacity and hides behind an artificial cap on any growth. B6, F9, NK, and DL all have the right to fly there.

It also goes to show how DAL was never really on AA's radar.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 18):
WN is neither low-cost or low-fare, and they are now more of a network carrier than ever.

Why do you say WN isn't low fare? How else do we explain the disparity in average fares on CMH/CVG-CHI or BNA/MEM-LAS?

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
That question is why it's highly interesting. At the point that you ask what does SLC offer a major spoke like DAL and the answer is NOTHING, you have to wonder if it will remain a hub long term.

Maybe, but isn't DAL at least somewhat sui generis? It's a very well-served city that is located pretty far south, so SLC is more out of the way than it is for a lot of other DL stations.
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
That question is why it's highly interesting. At the point that you ask what does SLC offer a major spoke like DAL and the answer is NOTHING, you have to wonder if it will remain a hub long term.

With all due respect, you are reading way too much into SLC not being part of this announcement. SLC still functions very well as an east-west connector and serves many intra-west routes that cannot be adequately served by other DL hubs. In recent years, SLC has also been a strong performer for DL and it's the only other really viable hub in the Mountain West beside DEN, so I really don't see it going anywhere.

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Also, WN will surely fly DAL-SLC.

I really doubt that. They will fly DEN-DAL and can easily connect you onto SLC from here. SLC has been stagnant for WN, especially since they opened up DEN. I don't see them adding much, if anything, from there.
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
It will be interested to see if AA "retaliates" at all, and if so, how. I would think LAX-ATL and potentially upgauging LGA-ATL to mainline (freeing up some soon-to-be-divested LGA slots in the process &nbsp  might be to plausible ones. I still don't think AA seems all that worried about DAL, anyway, though - with or without DAL trying to shift DFW service there.

This should be an interesting fight. As a result of the merger, AA becomes the largest carrier at LAX and gains a leading position on the ends of almost all of their transcon routes with the addition of hubs/focus cities at RDU, DCA, and BOS, while adding Philadelphia and Charlotte. With everything else in place, that's an enviable portfolio of business destinations from LA.

The increased traffic flows (east and west, particularly through Charlotte) will give AA quite the wherewithal to try some new things at LAX, where it will now have approximately 20% of the market and growing. With that position, it won't hurt to try some new things.

[Edited 2013-11-14 09:10:23]
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):

Boy, the PR team in Atlanta has been busy this week.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...pansion-dallas-love-140000850.html

I believe Delta still has a lot of FF in the DFW area from the old hub days, this expansion may be a way to build on that foundation. However, if AA couldn't make a go of it, not sure how Delta thinks they will.

18 daily flights from two gates seems to be a lot. Especially when those flights are likely to be timed so close together.


Am I the only one who thinks there may be more to this than Delta wanting access to DAL? Or even DCA for that matter? To me, it just seems like posturing for something bigger, but what, I do not know.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:59 pm

Delta should bring 747-400 once first flight DAL-LAX. Delta used to fly 747-200 many years ago DAL-LAX and SFO.

Q
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 7):
As a side note, AA would be smart to "fund" some of the research behind developing a second Atlanta airport.

Not a chance. Delta is the biggest employer in the state of Georgia so investing in another airport probably won't be something that "they allow" to happen.
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 7):
I guess we'll see soon from AA:

LAX-ATL

This one is likely coming soon regardless.
a.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
That question is why it's highly interesting. At the point that you ask what does SLC offer a major spoke like DAL and the answer is NOTHING, you have to wonder if it will remain a hub long term. Also, WN will surely fly DAL-SLC.

I think it has to be taken into account their lack of possible gates, and LAX - being a large business market, with LA-Dallas being one of DL's largest un-served business markets in the country. I suspect in their LAX expansion, DFW was looked at and passed up for the same reasons as ORD - very competitive market with a current bloodbath. In addition to a huge amount of AA flights, NK, VX, and UA are all fighting for the market. DL probably sees a niche and possibility to charge a premium for LAX-DAL using which it can poach some premium passengers from AA (and UA).

Back to the lack of gates, I am sure SLC can offer enough feed to fill 2x daily CR9s, but I can understand why that isn't DL's priority. I imagine the only 4 business markets that can command a premium to DAL over DFW in the western half of the US are LAX, SFO, DEN and SEA. I assume SLC-DFW adequately serves the rest of the feed from SLC + the inner mountain west to the greater Dallas/Ft, Worth area, without the added costs of adding another route from SLC, and without the opportunity cost of using the very scarce DAL gate space which could better be used for a business market like LAX.

As for the other western markets, I believe DL is focusing more at feeding their international service at SEA rather than SEA O&D (which SEA-DAL could potentially serve), and their presence at SFO/DEN is too small to capture enough premium O&D to DAL.

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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):
I guess we'll see soon from AA:
LAX-MSP

UA has just announced its own LAX-MSP a month ago. It's hard to beleive that an 5th carrier could entering this market.
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:29 pm

I think the result of this will be interesting - the settlement was very explicit that WN/B6 get the first right of refusal on assets they currently lease from AA, but was silent on DL having the same benefit with its lease on AA's DAL gates.

I think it would be a fairly tough sell to justify taking a competitor out of DAL and handing the gates to WN, and I assume DL announced this expansion plan to bolster its position knowing good and well that somebody like B6, who might be interested, won't be offering to set up shop with 18 flights to five destinations.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 25):
Quoting seatback (Reply 7):
As a side note, AA would be smart to "fund" some of the research behind developing a second Atlanta airport.

Not a chance. Delta is the biggest employer in the state of Georgia so investing in another airport probably won't be something that "they allow" to happen.

I said this in jest, but Delta wouldn't be in a position to block research dollars funded by American.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 27):
DL probably sees a niche and possibility to charge a premium for LAX-DAL using which it can poach some premium passengers from AA (and UA).

But is this worth losing some revenue on the LAX-ATL route? Let's say DL begins three daily flights to LAX from DFW, and AA begins three daily flights from LAX to ATL...there's bound to be a negative impact on DL's ATL revenue which diminishes the value of the revenue gained on DAL-ATL...so is it really worth the fight?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 30):
But is this worth losing some revenue on the LAX-ATL route? Let's say DL begins three daily flights to LAX from DFW, and AA begins three daily flights from LAX to ATL...there's bound to be a negative impact on DL's ATL revenue which diminishes the value of the revenue gained on DAL-ATL...so is it really worth the fight?

That gets to the sentiment that legacy carriers may not bother to compete with each other (in your example, on some very major metro routes). That gives solid basis for the DOJ's demand for concessions by AA/US. Yes, the DOJ pointed to carve-outs reserved for LCCs but DAL is so concentrated with WN right now (and DFW with AA) that DL actually has a pretty solid argument about being the carrier best placed to compete.
 
olddominion727
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:43 pm

These are their hub cities or focus cities. This is not rocket science--Stevie Wonder could've seen this coming. I am surprised BOS and SLC are not in the mix as well
 
ckfred
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:44 pm

Back in the 1990s, AA would defend DFW against any sort of increase in service by DL, but it completely ignored DL, when it came to defending ORD.

If DL added a DFW-ATL non-stop, AA would add one or even two non-stops, although AA never flew widebodies on DFW-ATL.

On the other hand, DL gradually increased ORD-ATL to 16 weekday roundtrips, offering hourly service from 6am to 9pm, and many of those flights were L-1011s and 767s. Yet, AA kept ORD-ATL at a range of 6 to 9 non-stops, with F100s, MD-80s, and sometimes a 727-200.

So, it will be interesting to see if AA decides to add service out of DFW to any of DL's hubs, as well as adding service from its other hubs to ATL.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:44 pm

I think they are targeting o&d on the love plans. It would have been exciting if they added SEA just to keep things interesting! I dont think SLC would demand enough of a premium and they are not really targeting connections for Love i think.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 19):
The entire Love Field situation is really jacked and should not be part of this settlement. Long term, I wonder how DAL is really going to work. You can't have proper competition from one airline that has 95 percent of the capacity and hides behind an artificial cap on any growth. B6, F9, NK, and DL all have the right to fly there.

It also goes to show how DAL was never really on AA's radar.

It's like my brain made that post without telling me. AGREE!!!!!!

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Maybe, but isn't DAL at least somewhat sui generis? It's a very well-served city that is located pretty far south, so SLC is more out of the way than it is for a lot of other DL stations.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):
With all due respect, you are reading way too much into SLC not being part of this announcement.

Anywhere with DAL service is going to pretty much wreck DFW. Look at the existing overlap markets in DOT. DAL is the preferred airport. DL could squeeze SLC in those gates if they wanted. It's exclusion is very interesting.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):
Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Also, WN will surely fly DAL-SLC.

I really doubt that.

If it weren't sure before, it is now that DL announced they won't fly it.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 27):
I think it has to be taken into account their lack of possible gates, and LAX - being a large business market, with LA-Dallas being one of DL's largest un-served business markets in the country. I suspect in their LAX expansion, DFW was looked at and passed up for the same reasons as ORD

That reminds me. There is a restriction on gates. Can they run an awful busing operation like DCA?
 
globalflyer
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:46 pm

Any idea what eqpt will be used by DL at DAL?
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texan
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Two more things...
1) expect a cut at DFW.
2) Thus begins what I've been saying is going to happen. Every airline that WN irritates by adding their hub from DAL will be trying to get into DAL's artificially tight gate inventory.

You're probably right long term, but DL also says that these flights will bring them up to 63 total from the Metroplex. I doubt they cut any flights from DFW until they determine whether or not the DAL flights will be successful.

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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Two more things...
1) expect a cut at DFW.
Quoting globalflyer (Reply 36):
Any idea what eqpt will be used by DL at DAL?

Almost certainly going to be CR7/CR9/E70/E75 equipment. Outside of leisure/beach/Florida markets and trans-cons that exceed the range of regional equipment, DL almost never starts a new route with mainline, since the 2-class RJs represent the lowest risk.

DAL-ATL if any, has the highest chance of possibly getting mainline.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 35):
That reminds me. There is a restriction on gates. Can they run an awful busing operation like DCA?

At Love Field? No. They'd be limited to whatever gates they could secure at DAL. No hardstand operations are permitted except in the case of IROPS.

LoneStarMike
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
However, if AA couldn't make a go of it, not sure how Delta thinks they will.

When AA served Love Field, the restrictions were still in place. The only AA hub they could serve nonstop from DAL was STL. All their other hubs were outside the perimeter.

After October of next year, DL wouldn't have those same restrictions and could fly to any of its U.S. hubs nonstop.

LoneStarMike
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 19):
You can't have proper competition from one airline that has 95 percent of the capacity and hides behind an artificial cap on any growth. B6, F9, NK, and DL all have the right to fly there

First of all WN only will have 16 of the 20 gates when DAL refurb is completed. That is 80% not 95%
We have legacy carriers operating out of DFW, ATL that have close to 80% now. I do not see any problem with that.

I just question if DL can operate that many additional flights out of DAL and DFW successfully load wise. I am sure DL wants to get the gate grab at DAL same as AA who did but eventually dropped use.
While DL has WA service at DAL now my thoughts are quite different.
I think DL is attempting to aggressively jump in with a large schedule on the belief that it is too make the dynamics look good for the transfer of gates to DL.
The end result is to stifle B6's and NK's ability to use DAL than any effort to compete with WN.

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Flighty
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 28):
UA has just announced its own LAX-MSP a month ago. It's hard to beleive that an 5th carrier could entering this market.

Quoting myself, (5 new BA USA flights thread), AA is close to offering a comprehensive "cornerstone" network at MSP potentially to include LHR and LAX. It would cement their #2 position there. Being #2 suggests AA would be among the stronger carriers on that route. It's an interesting thing to do at a competing legacy hub, a little like DL operating the DFW minihub.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:20 pm

I would almost find it humorous if airlines started asking for gates at DAL to start service. The airport would have no choice but to take gates from WN and give them to other carriers to support their operations. Just because a settlement agreement gives WN 16 gates does not mean that they are actually entitled to them. They could quickly find themselves with half those gates if DL, UA, B6, F9, and AS decided to start service to their hubs. The precise scenario the WA sought to prevent...airlines jumping out of DFW.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:21 pm

I would find this absolutely hilarious if the DOJ would allow DL to gain the divested gates. In this case it would be very anti-competitive for DL to control the divested gates. I don't even know why these gates are part of the settlement. If anything, the most competitive move would be to have WN control them. That way once Wright goes away WN will able to serve more cities and better compete with every other airline at DFW.

[Edited 2013-11-14 10:21:47]
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Certainly, but LAX is a much larger local market and, save for DEN, offers connections to the largest markets without a significant geographic disadvantage.

Exactly. From where Dallas is geographically, SLC offers you connections to the Rockies and Pacific Northwest. Stuff like California and LAS can easily be hit over LAX. Not to mention O&D traffic - generally much more profitable for an airline since you're not splitting it over two legs.

Quoting questions (Reply 14):
Why not SEA?

Realistically too long for an RJ at 1670 miles which doesn't help is likely the largest reason why.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 27):
I think it has to be taken into account their lack of possible gates, and LAX - being a large business market, with LA-Dallas being one of DL's largest un-served business markets in the country. I suspect in their LAX expansion, DFW was looked at and passed up for the same reasons as ORD - very competitive market with a current bloodbath. In addition to a huge amount of AA flights, NK, VX, and UA are all fighting for the market. DL probably sees a niche and possibility to charge a premium for LAX-DAL using which it can poach some premium passengers from AA (and UA).

Agreed - can probably get a higher yield mix on DAL-LAX than DFW-LAX, plus covers the Dallas market from LA.

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 32):
I am surprised BOS and SLC are not in the mix as well

I'm not. Would be a very long RJ route to BOS and Delta is not the dominant player in BOS anymore. Not to mention this is likely a WN Day 1 post WA route, so yields might not be great. SLC doesn't have enough local traffic to tie up a gate for that airplane.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 38):
DAL-ATL if any, has the highest chance of possibly getting mainline.

I would expect some 717s/MD-88s/A319s on some of the peak DAL flights. Likewise, I'd expect some reductions on DFW-ATL.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
However, if AA couldn't make a go of it, not sure how Delta thinks they will.
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 40):
When AA served Love Field, the restrictions were still in place. The only AA hub they could serve nonstop from DAL was STL. All their other hubs were outside the perimeter.

Not to mention a significant fundamental difference - even with Wright Amendment gone, any AA route from DAL will have its performance significantly handicapped by the tremendous offering of non-stop AA flights just down the road at DFW. It would be difficult for them to extract a premium for DAL-ORD-XXX over a non-stop DFW-XXX. Given that fact, they could never offer enough DAL-ORD frequency on desirable equipment to make Metroplex business travelers choose DAL over the high frequency, all-mainline DFW-ORD schedule.

DL, on the other hand, has DFW as a spoke. People who want to fly DL and find DAL more convenient geographically aren't going to have nearly as much incentive to go to DFW instead. As others have pointed out, this is the same dynamic in play at MDW, where neither AA nor UA operate services competing with their own ORD hub, but DL has a nice little operation going.
 
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:37 pm

I hope UA puts up a fight or at lease run up the lease rates high for Delta. I know UA already has two gates but if they could get these four they could run everything out of DAL.

I know premerger CO wanted to move their ops to DAL after Wright was gone. Heck CO been wanting to move back to DAL since 1985. UA could move it's ops to DAL from DFW with 4 gates. UA/WN could coexist nicely. There would be several airports (UA hubs) UA could serve from DAL that WN probably won't fly to from DAL. UA could have IAH, EWR, CLE, ORD, IAD to themselves from DAL and would keep 3 flights or less to SFO, LAX, DEN where they would have WN competition. I could see WN going to LGA, MDW, and DCA (in addition to HOU) instead of the UA hubs. It would offer passengers more choices out of DAL. AA already covers all the UA flights from DFW.

I bet UA would go about this quietly since they have two gates and AA wouldn't mind leasing it to them if it gets UA out of DFW.
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jetblastdubai
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 45):
I would expect some 717s

"IF" DL got any DAL gates, it'd be pure karma to throw a whole bunch of 717s in there.
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RE: Delta Announces Love Field Expansion Plans

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting syncmaster (Reply 23):

Am I the only one who thinks there may be more to this than Delta wanting access to DAL? Or even DCA for that matter? To me, it just seems like posturing for something bigger, but what, I do not know.

Delta has a lot going on and there is clearly a strategy to it all. They might realize that there will not be another opportunity like this where a forced divestiture takes place so they need to go for it all and see what they get. They might realize that having these assets now will put them in a position to "trade away" some later in a takeover of AS (were that to be required) or some other carrier (B6?). They might be trying to make life miserable for every other carrier while DL is strong. UA's wheels keep slipping. AA/US are distracted for the forseeable future. WN has stagnated. AS is sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place, and B6 is somewhat limited short-term on what they can do to grow significantly, but best keep Blue in check anyhow.

I don't know. I can think of a myriad of reasons why Delta is doing what it's doing. Who knows which - if any - are true.

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