flymia
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Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:50 pm

Well this is a first for me. Pilot reported a door came open while in flight off the shores of Miami and his passenger fell out of the airplane. Miami-Dade Homicide detectives are investigating as they would for any questionable death or serious injury incident.

More here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/1...ilots-mayday-call-spurs-miami.html

Anyone ever heard of this happening before?

[Edited 2013-11-14 14:59:34]
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Yflyer
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Not exactly the same thing as it was intentional rather than accidental, but just last week a man apparently committed suicide by booking a helicopter tour of the California coast and then jumping out:

http://news.sky.com/story/1164659/he...r-suicide-passenger-leaps-to-death
 
SFOFlyer
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:07 pm

And other, not exactly the same, but an HP Employee on an HP corporate commuter flight from Lincoln Regional (KLHM) to San Jose (KSJC), jumped from the plane in 2000. The pilots did not realize until they landed in San Jose...

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/dec/16/news/mn-791
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LV
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:28 am

The cartels are getting more creative in how they deal with "problems"  
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:19 am

Sounds like a former episode of CSI Miami where this was the plot and that, was intentional.
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GAIsweetGAI
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:30 am

I read a story a while back (possibly in the AOPA magazine - I forget ATM) about a door coming open on a light Piper and a toddler being sucked out. The pilot/dad caught him as he was heading out.
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flymia
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:05 am

Well according to the article the pilot stated he open the door and jumped out. Not an easy thing to investigate.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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Aesma
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:39 am

There was an accident reported here some time ago of an airplane with a canopy opening and someone falling off in a turn, a student pilot I think.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:31 am

Whenever I fly, I always have my seat belt tightly secured...mainly to keep me comfortably situated in one place. I don't want to get jostled around and then have to get comfortable again after each bout of turbulence. Flying an Archer, it's unlikely I'll fall out if the door was opened.
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Spacepope
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:34 am

I was flying a C152 a number of years back when my door popped open. It can happen....
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larshjort
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:37 am

How is it possible to fall out of a Piper Malibu? It is a split door, even if the upper half opens the lower half is still in place. Unless of course the plane was pressurized when the door blew open and the passenger was sucked out.

Pic looking aft only the top half off the door on the right opens.
http://www.mjets.com/images/Malibu_Gallery/Malibu_Seating1_New.jpg


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skywaymanaz
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:35 am

I've had a door come open on a 150 and 172 before but *knock on wood* haven't had anyone fall out yet. I always check the passenger door on my 172 from the outside after my passenger gets in to make sure it's locked. I seem to recall there was an incident some years back where a guy killed himself by going up with a flight instructor and then jumping out in mid flight. Imagine being that instructor afterward  
 
797
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 11):
I've had a door come open on a 150 and 172 before but *knock on wood* haven't had anyone fall out yet. I always check the passenger door on my 172 from the outside after my passenger gets in to make sure it's locked. I seem to recall there was an incident some years back where a guy killed himself by going up with a flight instructor and then jumping out in mid flight. Imagine being that instructor afterward

Not any worse that the instructor pilot that taught the 9/11 terrorists!!!  

Regarding the door popping open in a 172 (or any other airplane for that matter) it's a hard thing to accomplish due to the air flow outside of the fuselage. Cessna's doors open like any conventional car door... You all do the math.

797
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dwcontroller
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Anyone have the full N-number on this PA-46? LiveATC has the recording but they only say the last three as N4LD.
Best phrase to hear at the airport - "All standbys have been cleared and may board at this time"
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:19 pm

I had a door that wasn't properly closed once and it got a bit chilly because the cold air was coming in through the crack, but there was no way anyone could have fallen out. Once I was also in the back of a small plane and the luggage door came open whilst we turned onto finals and I held onto it trying to hold it shut as we landed.

I wonder how someone can just fall out like that. The only way I can think of is if they were leaning against the door and it wasn't locked properly, but why would someone do that? It definitely seems suspicious. If there was someone else in the back with the guy, I bet the police are looking into their background.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting flymia (Thread starter):
Anyone ever heard of this happening before?

Yes, happened to me twice, different aircraft, both Cessnas, a 152 & a 172. Both were night flights. Both involved two different woman passengers, one I knew very well and one a recent acquaintance. Both were going through issues, (reason for night flights, to lighten their load so to speak). On both flights I felt much cooler air hitting me behind my headset than I should have been experiencing and noticed on both occasions, the RH PAX door was unlatched, (was latched prior to take off). One of them even had her harness off. I don't perform "mercy flights anymore"...Imagine, how could a sole PIC prove he did not push the passenger out of the plane...can't do it.

I remember way back in LIFE magazine an article about a pilot that was circling over his work place I believe he was taking pictures slid out the door to his death. He was flying a Piper Tri Pacer. It happens...
 
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larshjort
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 13):
Anyone have the full N-number on this PA-46? LiveATC has the recording but they only say the last three as N4LD.

In the film you can see 54LD on the side, I haven't been able to locate a matching aircraft
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dwcontroller
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 17):

In the film you can see 54LD on the side, I haven't been able to locate a matching aircraft

Its N164LD owned by Wing Aviation LLC
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YYZYYT
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting LV (Reply 3):
Sounds like a former episode of CSI Miami where this was the plot and that, was intentional.

Actually, sounds like a certain fraudulent mining project in Indonesia.... and a certain geologist who was key the fraud, and who convenielntly "fell" out of a helcopter. Or was pushed. Or faked his death and disappeared (some believe to this day).
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting 797 (Reply 12):
Regarding the door popping open in a 172 (or any other airplane for that matter) it's a hard thing to accomplish due to the air flow outside of the fuselage.

It is much easier to do in an unpressurized plane at lower altitudes than a pressurized jet at high altitude. You aren't fighting against tons of air pressure in a small plane and I could move the door in the air stream quite easily on both occasions. I needed some work done on the pilot side door on my 172 once. The mechanic put the handle back on the wrong notch so the door would not stay latched in flight. The handle kept popping up enough to unlatch the door. When I showed it to the mechanic he grounded it until it was put back on the right notch. The look on his face showed he was terrified I might fall out. Big enough bump with my seatbelt off for some odd reason and yeah it could have happened.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 10):
How is it possible to fall out of a Piper Malibu? It is a split door, even if the upper half opens the lower half is still in place. Unless of course the plane was pressurized when the door blew open and the passenger was sucked out.

The pilot did say the guy "opened the door"

"“That’s correct, sir,” the pilot responded. “He opened the backdoor and he just fell down the plane.”

"The pilot’s 1:30 p.m. emergency call from 2,000 feet in the air Thursday set off a frantic, hours-long search for someone who either fell or jumped into waters east of Key Biscayne. The search by Miami-Dade police, fire rescue and the U.S. Coast Guard ended Thursday night without success."

So either he's covering for a homicide or it was suicide, or there was no passenger and this was someone faking their death.
 
highflier92660
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:22 pm

The A/C is N164LD, a 2011 Piper Malibu Mirage registered to Wings of Flight LLC. Listening to the ATC (Miami approach) the frequency is populated by the usual chatter until the pilot issues his "Mayday" call. When ATC asks the pilot to restate the nature of his emergency, the pilot with a heavy hispanic accent, asks for direct Tamiami airport and explains that his passenger opened the rear door and "fell" out.

While a Piper Malibu is a pressurized aircraft (5.5 psi) someone is not sucked-out at 2,000 ft. In fact the pilot very well may have been flying unpressurized. An unsecured light aircraft door makes a a lot of racket racket but opens to a trail position an inch or two into the airstream.

This sounds oddly like a copycat of an accident we had last week over Newport Beach, Ca. In that case pilot Corbin Street, the son of a retired traffic helicopter pilot named Commander Chuck Street, was flying a passenger on a sightseeing flight out of Fullerton airport. Roughly a thousand feet over a surfing beach called The Wedge, the 61-year-old passenger in the Robinson R-44 unbuckled his seat belt and committed suicide by leaping from the helicopter.

The two cases are very similar.

[Edited 2013-11-15 09:24:53]
 
harleydriver
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:28 pm

I flew a C152 and a C150 for my private pilot training and on both aircraft the left door would occasionally crack open. I would look to my left clearing for traffic and in my periferal vision see daylight at the door frame. No big deal, just push against the slipstream a bit then pull the door in. It was a little more unsettling during a steep turn and see daylight but I'm strapped in so I would complete the maneuver, level off and close the door.

When I worked for a regional airline in Maine in the '80's we had a Beech 99 that the door popped open in flight and the co-pilot went out with the open door but was able to grab the door and hold on. I can't remember exactly why he was at the door but I believe there was a noise and he tried to secure the handle and it popped open. The captain thought the co-pilot fell out of the airplane and declared an emergency with the location to send emergency response vehicles. They passed over the co-pilots house in Lewiston, Maine and he saw his house as he was hanging from the door. I was working at the hanger in Bangor, Maine when they ferried the plane into Bangor and he had bent the metal of the door. I couldn't believe it but thats adrenaline for you. I knew the guy but I can't remember if he quit after that, something tells me he did.
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AR385
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 20):
So either he's covering for a homicide or it was suicide, or there was no passenger and this was someone faking their death.

Assuming the two were alone on the flight, Homicide seems unlikely because the pilot has to fly. Plus, imagine the struggle to push the guy out. Now suicide seems more flexible and covering for it too, as most insurance policies won´t cover suicide. Then again, since he can´t really say what happened, he may just be refraining from using the word "suicide".

However, I´ve heard this type of occurence is rather common.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 22):
When I worked for a regional airline in Maine in the '80's we had a Beech 99 that the door popped open in flight and the co-pilot went out with the open door but was able to grab the door and hold on.

I remember that...he basically endured the entire flight being pummeled by the slipstream and during the landing phase his head was uncomfortably close to the runway...bet Thanksgiving Day has a whole new meaning to him!
 
harleydriver
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 24):
I remember that...he basically endured the entire flight being pummeled by the slipstream and during the landing phase his head was uncomfortably close to the runway...bet Thanksgiving Day has a whole new meaning to him!


Your right, I remember the discussions on how close he was to the runway on landing . I found a news article about this incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/04/us...-survivor-in-freakish-mishap.html.

And for some reason, the tail number just came to me. N204BH. Why after 25 year I remember that, I have no idea.
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maxpower1954
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:08 pm

In 1956, an intoxicated male passenger (who had been denied boarding on a Capital flight) left his seat headed for the lav and instead opened the main entrance door of a Piedmont DC-3 over Shelby, NC. Oddly enough, he landed in a graveyard.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:19 pm

My initial thoughts: how would a pilot be able to fly and murder the guy? That would be pretty hard. Also hard to believe a passenger could fall out on accident but that makes more sense than the former. Suicide? Sounds more likely IMO. Who knows, it will be interesting to see how they go about the investigation. Very hard to conclude anything and I wonder if it's even possible for a guilty verdict to be reached...
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flymia
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
Very hard to conclude anything and I wonder if it's even possible for a guilty verdict to be reached...

Doubt it. And I am with you I am more towards suicide or faking a death. The man's name has been released and he was from the City of Key Biscayne which is right around where he jumped. Key Biscayne is a very expensive area of town to live in too. As more information comes out I think we will figure it out. If they never find a body though. That will be interesting with the faking the death idea.
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Type-Rated
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:08 am

A couple of years ago we had a guy come out to start private pilot lessons and when he and the instructor were out in the practice area the guy opened his door and jumped out. The instructor was really freaked out by it all.

I learned to fly in the days before headphones were common. When a door popped open it was really loud. We were taught never to play with the door inflight, always land first as the airflow around the plane will prevent proper closure. There have been pilots who have crashed & been killed trying to get the door to close and they weren't paying attention to what the a/c was doing.
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zippyjet
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:49 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 26):

What happened to the plane/rest of the passengers/flight?

Quoting type-rated (Reply 29):

Sadly that sounds like the tragic scenario of Eastern Flight 411 that crashed into the Everglades. It wasn't a door but an issue of a burnt out landing gear down bulb. The autopilot was acccidentially disengaged and the jumbo flew itself into the ground. One of the crew was in the "hellhole" checking on the landing gear which did deploy. It was a burnt out bulb. But on the other hand ignoring something like this could also prove catastrophic.

For the pilot trying to get the door closed; had he left well enough alone and done his normal landing sequence would the plane have made it?
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maxpower1954
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 30):
What happened to the plane/rest of the passengers/flight?

Here's the CAB report. Interesting reading!

http://ntl1.specialcollection.net/sc...dll?websearch&site=dot_aircraftacc
 
TurboFanMikey
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:49 am

Seems pretty clear it was suicide. It was all over the news down here.
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flymia
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:44 pm

Well looks like they found the body. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/1...ade-police-find-body-believed.html

There goes the fake death option. In all likelihood it was suicide.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:20 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
My initial thoughts: how would a pilot be able to fly and murder the guy?

I can think of a few ways but don't want to give any ideas to the wrong people. Now that the body has been found those ways are probably being looked into. If there are no signs of foul play though you're probably right there is no way they'd get a conviction.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Passenger Falls Out Of GA Plane Near MIA

Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:00 pm

Maybe a stretch, but could this be the result of incredible stupidity, like hanging out the open door to take some photos to impress your friends?

I'd guess, though, that background checks for possible financial, medical, personal (etc.) problems will probably indicate that suicide was the motive. Just casually interested because I used to live in the area. regards...jack
all best; jack

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