LAXintl
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AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:38 am

American Airlines Group (AAG) spokesperson along with Doug Parker says AAG is presently “not considering the sale of American Eagle Airlines.”

The spokesperson said change of heart was provoked by a change in the competition, razor thin margins, and the need to focus on completing the mainline merger.

However American Eagle future is far from clear as it struggles with issues over its operational and labor cost along with one of the worst ontime performance rates in the industry.
With the merger, not only does MQ face competition from external regional providers seeking AA business, but it must face two other inhouse regional operations which will give AAG enormous flexibility in awarding flying.


American Eagle to Remain Part of AAG, Longterm Challenges Remain
http://airchive.com/blog/2013/12/19/american-eagle-aag/

=


Besides the stated merger integration focus, I think one of the clear issues with MQ is, who would buy it with the existing cost structure? MQ with its reported higher cost is not going to be able to compete for fixed-fee flying very well and wont be an attractive asset for anyone to acquire as a result.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
realsim
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:27 am

Tomorrow the pilots will receive a new proposal from the company regarding their contract in order to secure the new E75 order.

On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...
 
rj777
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 1):
On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...

ok......... so........... they've already painted several American Eagle planes in the new livery..... so now they're going to have to re-paint them again with the name Envoy on the side?
 
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crj900lr
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:15 am

No it will be American Eagle operated by Envoy Airlines just like it will be American Eagle operated by PSA, Mesa, Piedmont, SkyWest, Republic and whoever else we want to sign up for a cheap price.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:15 pm

Almost a year ago, AMR said it would rebrand MQ.

American Eagle will remain the generic brand name for the express operation, no longer the name of a specific airline to avoid confusion.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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JBo
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 1):
On another note, it is rumored on different sites and by different sources that American Eagle Airlines new name will be "Envoy Airlines". We will have to wait to the official decision and annoucement, though...

They should just bring back "Simmons"  
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
stillageek
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:56 pm

The proposal




December 20, 2013

Message from the Chairman


Fellow Eagle Pilots:

Yesterday we received a formal proposal from Eagle Management regarding the placement of large RJs on our property in exchange for additional concessions to achieve the company’s structure objectives. The proposal is extensive and touches a number of sections in our collective bargaining agreement. We briefed the MEC immediately following the meeting and engaged in a very spirited debate on the merits of the proposed changes. The MEC debate on a response will continue up through our meeting on January 2nd when the MEC will determine how to respond to Eagle management. To allow you the opportunity to advise your LEC representatives, the following is a general summary of their offer:

Potential Upside

The company would agree to increase the "metering" commitment under the existing 824 agreement from 20 to 30 beginning in September 2014. They would still send 20 per month or 50% of the AA new hire classes until then (subject to metering and ALPA’s grievance)

They would increase the percentage of new hire obligations under the "protected pilot" agreement to 50% from the current 35% and send a minimum of 30 per month if AA hires 60 or more that month.

The amended terms of the protected pilot agreement would be extended to all pilots hired after October 11, 2011 and to any Eagle new hires.

Downside

The agreement would extend until 2024 with little opportunity to amend it.

We would have to transition to a compensation model that incorporates wage caps for Captains at 12 years and 4 years for First Officers very similar to what the pilots at PSA recently agreed to. The transition would occur over roughly a four-year period.

Per diem would be reduced by $.20 on the date of signing with some incremental increases.

The employee contribution for medical coverage would increase by 5% in about a year.

We would accrue vacation at a slightly different rate and would lose the fifth week altogether.

Allow the company to train crews on the EMB 175 months before we receive it and then return them to their previous equipment until the deliveries begin.

We would adopt a 401k plan and sick accrual system that mirrors the current PSA contract.

Our current profit sharing plan would be suspended.

The proposal only guarantees a fleet of 60 aircraft


We plan to post the details of PSA's provisions on the Eagle ALPA website as well as a contract comparison of other regional airlines that are more similar to our operation.

The company indicated to us that, without what they consider to be a cost competitive agreement, they will place the aircraft with a competing carrier and we would become "Comair II".

It's important to be patient while the MEC digests the offer and determines how best to respond to management. It is equally important that you engage your LEC representatives to provide the perspective they will need to make that determination. There are many moving pieces in a process like this, so the details are likely to change. While the MEC has committed to working in an expedient manner, if there is an agreement with the company, it will be subject to pilot ratification.

I'll keep you updated as we proceed toward a response.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:23 pm

Good.

AAG puts its cards on the table and now its up to MQ to decide its own future. Makes total sense to establish contract parity among inhouse regionals.

AAG rightfully is also agnostic and knows it will get its deal at the end either way, whether inhouse with MQ or externally from the many players anxious to pick up the business.


p.s. - here is a news story on the proposal
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...osal-warning-from-management.html/

=

[Edited 2013-12-20 13:32:21]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tyler81190
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:53 pm

Though do not work for MQ, if I did, and after everything AA has put them through, I would say NO. From the little bit of info here, it looks like AA is just playing with them until they decide to shut them down or sell off after a few years.

FULL PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!!

In solidarity with my fellow Union brothers and sisters.

TJ
 
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crj900lr
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
p.s. - here is a news story on the proposal
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...html/

The article is not even written right. It was PSA who got the 900's not Piedmont. If they can't even get that right how is anyone who reads this supposed to believe anything else is correct in this article. If it does not come from an inside source I wouldn't believe it.
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
AAG puts its cards on the table and now its up to MQ to decide its own future.

If the MQ pilots are smart, they'll walk away. Because ultimately they have no say in their future, whether they accept the deal or not. That's what not owning your own aircraft does to you.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
AAG rightfully is also agnostic and knows it will get its deal at the end either way, whether inhouse with MQ or externally from the many players anxious to pick up the business.

They'll get the rates they want. They may not get the pilots. Regionals are having trouble filling their classes, and it seems only a matter of time before that starts showing up in the form of crew cancellations. AA should be careful what they wish for.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tyler81190
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
They'll get the rates they want. They may not get the pilots. Regionals are having trouble filling their classes, and it seems only a matter of time before that starts showing up in the form of crew cancellations. AA should be careful what they wish for.

I think we are still a few years, maybe 2 or 3 from seeing a large shortage. There are a lot of regional pilots out there that will fill the void for now. But in the future, as the Mainline carriers start to retire pilots, they will hire from the regionals. With the current wage situation in the regionals, not many people want the high cost of training to work in a very low wage industry. Yes, even though in the long run it isn't that bad, in the years after training it is basically welfare wages. (Think fast food)

As this gets worse, with concessionary contracts, and pay cuts, fewer people will be interested in the prospects of flying commercially.

After that happens, the regionals will be hurting for anyone to fly their planes, and will have to raise wages, or offer the training for next to nothing.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:48 am

MQ will probably be able to lure pilots from smaller carriers for a while, but in the long run wages will have to be sustainable.
 
Woodreau
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 12):
MQ will probably be able to lure pilots from smaller carriers for a while, but in the long run wages will have to be sustainable.

Well for MQ's stated goal of hiring 600 pilots in 2013, they were able to hire 142 total. About 450+ pilots short of their recruitment goal for 2013.. What smaller carriers are you talking about?
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:41 pm

I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes.
 
norcal
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 14):
I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes

Great Lakes and Cape Air have less than 500 pilots between them. That won't solve the problem.

There are approximately 21,000 regional pilots now flying and 22,000 mainline retirements in the next 10 years. Regionals will not keep up with that level of attrition even as they shrink. They can't fill their classes now and mainline carriers haven't really started hiring in the numbers they need to. Part 117 rest rules will also be very difficult for regionals to comply with.

The wages have been driven so low for so long that people have stopped entering the profession. Driving wages lower will not help the situation. AAG might win the battle against Eagle, but they will lose the war unless they start compensating regional pilots enough to get people back into the industry.
 
bostonmike
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:24 am

"I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes."

The major airlines are really putting the squeeze on the regionals and the race to the bottom is intensifying for their employees. Dangling the "flow-through" lure as bait, pay and quality of life reductions are seen as temporary pains. But flow-through numbers have varied dramatically in the past. AE is a prime example. Cape Air has a type of flow through program with JetBlue, but the numbers are miniscule.

The University of North Dakota, one of the few college-level pilot training institutions left, is now offering a degree program in flying drones. Maybe that's the future.....
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 14):
I was thinking of Cape Air and Great Lakes.

1) There's very few people left at Lakes. Why would they leave one sinking ship for another? 2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

-DiamondFlyer
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Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 16):
The University of North Dakota, one of the few college-level pilot training institutions left, is now offering a degree program in flying drones. Maybe that's the future.....

In about fifty or sixty years, perhaps. The airlines will be needing lots of pilots in less than five years.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 17):
2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

Or if they do, they're going to go right to the majors. A regional is probably a step backward for them.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting norcal (Reply 15):
There are approximately 21,000 regional pilots now flying and 22,000 mainline retirements in the next 10 years.

Is there a graph of this over the years? It sounds like a fun business problem to observe from the outside.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 17):
1) There's very few people left at Lakes. Why would they leave one sinking ship for another? 2) Cape Air pilots are compensated very well and have very good schedules. Many of them have no desire to jump to the 121 side of things.

This goes to show how little I know about either airline. I just picked them as ones I knew operated small aircraft.
 
Woodreau
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:56 pm

Same for Great Lakes pilots. Even though they aren't paid very well or fly bigger regional aircraft, most lakes pilots when they leave Great Lakes, they leave for a major carrier. Going to another regional for them is also a step backwards or a lateral move at best.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:52 pm

A lot of folks will lose their jobs when MQ gets shut down, it's just too bad. Anyone know how many employees work for them? This includes everybody - flight crew, ground support, office workers and managers. Just when the economy is beginning to recover.

It's too bad that the major airlines have commoditized the regional feed business to the point that unless a feed provider can guarantee the lowest cost contract relative to its peers, it will quickly recieve the ax from the mainline carrier. This scenario unfortunately ties the hands of the regional carriers' management teams - they must cut costs - and unfortunately they believe that the pilots' contracts are the only controllable, quantifiable area where cuts can be made.

This leaves regional airlines unable / unwilling to compensate pilots fairly and to retain experienced senior pilots, who really are the bottom line in the safe operation of the airline.

The major airlines are to blame. They are unwilling to accept even the smallest rise in the cost of regional feed as is necessary to maintain fair compensation of safe, competent pilots. This is absurd, considering how the majors have found a way to transform their business in order to compensate for the astronomical rise in fuel costs over the past decade, and even make record profits in spite of the high cost of fuel and weak economy. Clearly, the major airlines can afford a minor rise in the cost of regional feed, but their refusal to do so speaks volumes about how much they value having a safe, experienced, quality regional partner.

MQ will go the way of Comair, but it is only because of management's commoditization of the regional feed business. Obviously, they learned nothing from the Colgan accident. It is just a matter of time before it happens again.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):
Anyone know how many employees work for them?

According to AA website - "More than 14,600"

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):
The major airlines are to blame.

Hardly -

If you want to blame anyone for commoditization, blame the consumer. Its the consumer that has shown even a $1 price difference can effect their purchasing behavior.

The majors have pressure on them from each angle, and it would be irresponsible for them to overpay for regional lift.

At the end of the day, its for the regional's to go out there and earn the business from the majors, not for the majors to operate charities by subsidizing inefficient regional players.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:50 pm

LAXintl - you prove my point exactly.

Who is the consumer at the macro level in this situation? The major airlines. They refuse to pay $1 more for a service (regional airline feed) because of the commoditization they have created within the market.

I won't address the rest because it is baseless.

[Edited 2013-12-22 13:50:54]
 
mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:05 pm

The travelling public is keeping the pressure on AA to ensure its operates as lean as possible.

So the consumer keep the pressure on the airline, which creates the commoditization.

Its not AA's fault it must shop around for the best price. It does what consumers demand, which is lowest price wins.


Also this is not unique to airlines. Consumers drive commoditization in all types of industries. From grocery store to electronics to restaurants. Consumers demand best price value and either companies delivery or they die.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:32 pm

So you blame AA because Airbus or Boeing trip over each other to supply planes to AA and were willing to offer large discounts, maybe even below cost or much profit?

MQ like Airbus or Boeing is a vendor and needs to earn the AA business.

Just like you would not expect AA to pay extra to Airbus or Boeing why should it pay extra for pleasure of one regional versus peers in an open competitive market?
Shame on it if it did....
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
freakyrat
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:38 am

I have several people working with me that are graduates of UND and Riddle that can't afford to go to work for a regional because they have enormous student loan paybacks that the pay for a regional would never cover.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:41 am

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):

A lot of folks will lose their jobs when MQ gets shut down, it's just too bad. Anyone know how many employees work for them? This includes everybody - flight crew, ground support, office workers and managers. Just when the economy is beginning to recover.

MQ shutting down as an airline would probably not affect their ground handling, which can be completely separate.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:13 am

LAXintl, your perspective only takes into account one aspect of an incredibly complex decision - unit cost. You can't compare purchasing an airline ticket to purchasing aircraft or entering into a regional CPA or FFD contract.

Purchasing aircraft is a huge decision and I won't insult your intelligence by detailing all of the reasons why. In the end, an airline doesn't choose to purchase a particular aircraft type simply based on unit cost per aircraft.

Purchasing regional feed is another very complex decision, but it appears that US management is only looking at that one number, unit cost, and ignoring all of the other factors in the decision. It's really not a smart idea, but only time will tell. One thing always seems to hold true though - "you get what you pay for."
 
mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:27 am

Competition between Airbus and Boeing benefits airlines and consumers at the end.

Same with regional feed. There are lots of options out there and companies try to offer the most attractive proposal.

Its business 101 to let vendors square off with each other. As consumers we do it every day also as to who we decide to spend our money with.

Its hardly AA fault it seeks to get the best deal possible in the market, its simple human nature, and their feduciary resposibility.

It sounds like if American Eagle cant satisfy AA then it can go into the history books, while other companies service AA needs instead. Not very complex situation.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:50 am

Mercure1, everything you say makes sense in a textbook sort of way. But,

In seeking "the best deal" in the market, I fully believe AA is signing contracts that certain feeders will not be able to fulfill, and THAT is not good for the consumer, or AA.

CEOs and other managers are decision makers. Their job is to weigh cost vs value, and strategize how to provide the best value for shareholders. In the end, their worth is determined by the outcome of their decisions. An experienced, visionary executive knows that the cheapest deal is not always the best value, or will ensure the best outcome for the shareholders.

Only time will tell how these decisions play out.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:03 pm

Yes it is a simple situation, like any other seller-buyer relationship.

MQ has a product to sell and must make it attractive enough to close the deal.

At the moment there are no takers, and AA is telling MQ what it needs to do to be competitive again.

Either MQ gets in line with its peer offers, or it sees the AA business evaporate taken over by other anxious sellers.

Basic forces of economics at work here.

Things might swing back in favor of the sellers one day, but for now its a buyers market in the regional arena.

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 30):
I fully believe AA is signing contracts that certain feeders will not be able to fulfill,

Then shame on those other companies, and those management teams.

Like all major contracts there are performance standards to be met, and if they fail there are remedies to be followed.


But for now, why ignore compelling deals being offered by major competitors like Skywest, Republic, etc. It be foolish not to consider them.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
stillageek
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:48 pm

Things are going to get ugly at Eagle. Pilots are being forced to fly sick or pay for a hotel room...they can no longer travel as a passenger home to get well.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



December 21, 2013



Fellow Eagle Pilots:

It has come to our attention that the company is refusing to allow crew members who call in sick to use their travel privileges to get home. Previously, the company evaluated the individual circumstances when deciding whether to authorize travel. The policy has now shifted to forcing a commuting crew member to pay for a hotel in domicile until they feel better. The financial burden is significant, especially for our First Officers.

Safety is our number one priority at ALPA and we strongly believe that you have an obligation NOT to fly when you are sick or fatigued. Do not allow the threat of having to remain at your domicile cause you to risk flying while impaired. It isn't worth it.

We are looking into options to help those who need a place to stay after calling in sick or fatigued. If you are forced to stay in domicile after calling in sick, please call your local rep.

Please fly safe.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting stillageek (Reply 32):
Things are going to get ugly at Eagle. Pilots are being forced to fly sick or pay for a hotel room...they can no longer travel as a passenger home to get well.

From a legality standpoint, they do have a point. Any kind of jumpseating, you are required crew member. You can't be sick and be a required crewmember. It still sucks, but there is a legal side to it.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:38 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
AA is telling MQ what it needs to do to be competitive again.

If AA wants MQ to compete, perhaps they should let them actually compete, and go out and make bids for contracts from DL, UA, etc.

The game is different with wholly-owned providers, since ultimately you're just selling something to yourself.

Quoting stillageek (Reply 32):
Pilots are being forced to fly sick or pay for a hotel room...they can no longer travel as a passenger home to get well.

Disgusting. If the company wants to keep a pilot overnight somewhere, they should pony up for the hotel. The union should be fighting that one tooth and nail.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting stillageek (Reply 32):
Pilots are being forced to fly sick or pay for a hotel room...they can no longer travel as a passenger home to get well

Why should company pay for a hotel in someones domicile (base)?  

That's where you are based and your home in the eyes of the company.

At my previous airlines unless you had home basing, once at your domicile you are on your own, and company certainly does not need to pay for your room and board.

Also travel when sick is frowned upon by most airlines.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 33):
From a legality standpoint, they do have a point. Any kind of jumpseating, you are required crew member. You can't be sick and be a required crewmember. It still sucks, but there is a legal side to it.

1) You're not a required crewmember on the jumpseat. The only required crewmembers are the captain and the first officer - they're the ones listed on the airplane's type certificate.

2) Even if you want to treat jumpseaters as crewmembers (which isn't unreasonable), commuting isn't necessarily on the jumpseat. I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to fly in the cabin.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Why should company pay for a hotel in someones domicile (base)?  

That's where you are based and your home in the eyes of the company.

Pilots aren't required to stay in base when they're not on duty, and commuting is tacitly encouraged by the airlines. If the company wants to keep someone somewhere in preparation for duty, they should front the cost. Plus, such a requirement on the pilot by the certificate holder could be seen as infringing on rest requirements.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Pilots aren't required to stay in base when they're not on duty, and commuting is tacitly encouraged by the airlines. If the company wants to keep someone somewhere in preparation for duty, they should front the cost. Plus, such a requirement on the pilot by the certificate holder could be seen as infringing on rest requirements.


Its the employees perogative if they they live clear cross country. In previous life, I lived in CA, but worked out of NY and MIA for 4-years, that was my choice to commute.

So I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic, nor do I know any company that must cover their employees hotel cost when back at base.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
1) You're not a required crewmember on the jumpseat. The only required crewmembers are the captain and the first officer - they're the ones listed on the airplane's type certificate.

Sorry, required crew was the wrong way to say it. You are an additional crewmember when jumpseating and as such all the same requirements apply.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 37):
So I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic, nor do I know any company that must cover their employees hotel cost when back at base.

They don't have to cover their cost unless they're compelling them to stay there. If they let them go home, they wouldn't have to cover their cost.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:50 pm

If too sick for flight duty, why company should allow you leisure travel ?

France there is actual law that says if too sick for flight duty, then then impossible for employees to be on regulated property (aircraft).
Also in case of crew members, such must bring medical release when fit to return for duty per civil aviation requirement.


So either you sick to perform flight duty, then you stay away, or you are well and work. No ability to be sick for flight duty, yet to fly for own benefit.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:53 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
If AA wants MQ to compete, perhaps they should let them actually compete, and go out and make bids for contracts from DL, UA, etc.

Yes this was discussed earlier this year and the president of Eagle said this was a likely goal, but before such can be an option MQ must get to a point where its cost are inline and it actually has a competitive offering that can win business.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 40):
So either you sick to perform flight duty, then you stay away, or you are well and work. No ability to be sick for flight duty, yet to fly for own benefit.

  
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 40):
If too sick for flight duty, why company should allow you leisure travel ?

Commuting isn't leisure travel.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
superjeff
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:03 pm

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 21):
The major airlines are to blame. They are unwilling to accept even the smallest rise in the cost of regional feed as is necessary to maintain fair compensation of safe, competent pilots. This is absurd, considering how the majors have found a way to transform their business in order to compensate for the astronomical rise in fuel costs over the past decade, and even make record profits in spite of the high cost of fuel and weak economy. Clearly, the major airlines can afford a minor rise in the cost of regional feed, but their refusal to do so speaks volumes about how much they value having a safe, experienced, quality regional partner.

Oh come now! This is ridiculous. The majors fly on miniscule margins, and passengers have learned to treat the airlines' product as a commodity. If the fare is $5 less, they'll abandon one carrier for another. That is why every single legacy carrier that was around at deregulation in 1978 has either gone out of business, merged into another carrier, or been through at least one bankru ptcy reorganization. Not only the U.S. (think Braniff, Continental, Eastern, Northwest, Pan Am, TWA,, Western, to name just a few who've gone out of business or been required, American, Delta, and United who've been through Chapter 11's), but also elsewhere (i.e., Canadian, Wardair (both Canadian). Swissair, Sabena, BMI, etc. who either went out of business or were acquired, Air Canada, Japan Air Lines (Bankruptcy reog).

The fact is that the airlines haven't got the luxury of being able to pay better salaries. If passengers would pay a bit extra for better service, they might be able to, but that just isn't happening in the industry. Passengers expect first class service at $99 trans-con prices.
 
mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:07 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 42):
Commuting isn't leisure travel.

Do AA Eagle pilot employees get paid to commute home? Is it part of their duty assignment?


From what I see in the industry its a choice employees embark on.

Like anyone else, people don't get paid to come and go from work. Its not company choice you decide to live 1 or 5 hours away from your work location.
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
Yes this was discussed earlier this year and the president of Eagle said this was a likely goal, but before such can be an option MQ must get to a point where its cost are inline and it actually has a competitive offering that can win business.

And who decides what's a competitive offering? AA? Not exactly an unbiased opinion there.

Why not let Eagle bid for some other airlines and see if those other airlines find the offers competitive?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 44):
From what I see in the industry its a choice employees embark on.

Like anyone else, people don't get paid to come and go from work. Its not company choice you decide to live 1 or 5 hours away from your work location.

In many cases, its a choice forced upon them, by the lack of pay. You can't live in NYC on regional FO pay, no way.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 44):
Its not company choice you decide to live 1 or 5 hours away from your work location.

As I said, it's tacitly encouraged by the company since they base employees in expensive locations but pay them the same as inexpensive locations. When airlines start offering location-based pay adjustments in exchange for living within a certain distance of base, then we can talk about commuting restrictions.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:23 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
And who decides what's a competitive offering? AA? Not exactly an unbiased opinion there.

The market place obviously.

AA as a buyer in particular knows very well what the going market rates today are knows MQ can't play the game with its current structure without digging a deeper financial whole for itself.

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
Why not let Eagle bid for some other airlines and see if those other airlines find the offers competitive?

No reason to go out and make a fool and spend money chasing contracts you know you cant win.

Until you have your own house in order, you don't go stand in front of the customer begging for work.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 46):
In many cases, its a choice forced upon them, by the lack of pay. You can't live in NYC on regional FO pay, no way.

And who makes that choice? The employee ultimately.

Again, I really get tired about this old argument that the big mean company is doing something bad by paying market rates.
If things are so bad to be a pilot, then dont do it. I have directly managed pilots in my career, and have several dozen as personal friends and like all other careers they had to weigh and accept the realities of the good and bad that come with the job.

If piloting is so bad, and fails to meet your basic desires, then there are thousands of other professions to pursue.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
And who makes that choice? The employee ultimately.
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
If piloting is so bad, and fails to meet your basic desires, then there are thousands of other professions to pursue.

  

And it ultimately comes to this


Hopefully these bright folks walk in with their eyes open and with the understanding of what the conditions are.


Its really silly to blame the company they must commute across the country, or the company is not paying me enough.
People knew what the reality was when they signed on the dotted line.

So if the airline lifestyle, the pay and conditions are not for you, please do something else that will make you more content.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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