PITrules
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PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:48 pm

The previous edition was getting long, so here is #28. #27 is archived here PIT Update Thread 27 (by PITrules Aug 5 2013 in Civil Aviation)
FLYi
 
PITrules
Topic Author
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:50 pm

Visual treat to get this edition started are postcards from my collection of stuff featuring PIT.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0001-5.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0052-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/khg.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0003-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0002-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/78.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/T2eC16hwwFJcBmQceBSbVNwsRg60_57.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/Scan10005_170.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/ljknh.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/lkhjl.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0004-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/79.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/80.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0009-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0012-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0011-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0008-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0007-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0006-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0005-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0010-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/ljnh.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0013-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0016-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0015-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0014-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0022.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0021.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0020-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0019-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0018-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0017-1.jpg
FLYi
 
boeingkid
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:11 pm

I love the pictures thank you for posting
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:51 pm

I used to have one of those 1980s postcards, the one with that USAir 727 on 28C...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:14 am

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 2):
I love the pictures thank you for posting

Thanks; hopefully some of the others who work at the airport will continue to post pics of diversions, etc.



Construction to begin on Southern Beltway corridor
"Construction is about to being on a Southern Beltway section that is being hailed as a vital link between the energy corporation headquarters in Washington County and Pittsburgh International Airport."
http://www.observer-reporter.com/art...0113/NEWS01/140119791#.UtS4xrRjKOl


"Passenger numbers up 66 percent at Arnold Palmer Regional"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...t-passengers-flights#axzz2qLckfJaF
FLYi
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:49 pm

So PIT awarded a contract for an advertising agency

Quote:
The partnership creates new opportunities for businesses in PIT to increase brand awareness, such as, that to date, have never been explored in this market, including a skybridge billboards, spanning four lanes of traffic, glass graphics, and column wraps in new areas andreaching local passengers as they drive by the terminal. on the lower level In addition, a new Digital program will play 5-second commercials on monitors throughout the terminal.
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_re...irport-unveils-outdoor-advertising
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:56 pm

Here comes a Delta 764 from CDG
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL185

Hopefully some more wide bodies to come this afternoon/evening. There have also been a handful of positioning flights, mainly by US and Republic.

US 757 from DUB:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE723

[Edited 2014-01-21 11:26:17]
FLYi
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:57 am

US 757 from PHX:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20140121/1650Z/KPHX/KPIT

DL 738 from MSP:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...4/history/20140121/1900Z/KMSP/KPIT

UA 319 from ORD:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...0/history/20140121/2004Z/KORD/KPIT

and full links for the two in the post above

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20140121/0940Z/LFPG/KPIT
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...3/history/20140121/1115Z/EIDW/KPIT

edit to add: this one is kinda interesting.

US 319 from BOS. Scheduled for BOS-PHL-PIT and it went to PIT from the start. US' website says "Details: The flight will not stop in Philadelphia but will continue to the scheduled destination of Pittsburgh."
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...0/history/20140121/1630Z/KBOS/KPIT

[Edited 2014-01-21 18:02:29]
 
krod031
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:22 pm

US Will move operations center to Dallas. Sad for the 600 local US Employees, but not shocking news


http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/...ways-moving-pittsburgh-operations/
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:13 am

"Plans already underway for newly closed operations center in Moon Township"
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...already-underway-for.html?page=all

With Pgh's tight office market this building won't sit vacant for long.

However this news and the news that the 911th air wing has yet another fight for survival on its hands seems to indicate 2014 will shape up to be another bland year for PIT as I also don't foresee one new route added this year by the current airlines serving PIT.
FLYi
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:09 pm

AF1 may be making a visit Wednesday. Doesn't say how POTUS will be traveling.

Quote:
President Barack Obama plans to visit Pittsburgh on Wednesday, a day after delivering the State of the Union address, the White House announced Saturday.

The White House will release details of Obama's visit “in the coming days,” a White House official said
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...74/obama-visit-plans#axzz2rLtNWjV9
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:02 pm

Yet another rundown on the saga of US Airways pulling down PIT.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/we...curring-theme/stories/201401260180

Some interesting tidbits though, such as confirmation that Kent George, the ACAA Chief Exec who presided over the pull down, had and continues to have no idea about the realities of the industry.

"But Mr. George, formerly of the county Airport Authority, questioned the decision. He pointed out that the Moon center handled all US Airways domestic and international traffic even though Pittsburgh wasn't a hub and the airline's headquarters was in Phoenix.

"I don't understand what they're doing. It's a brand-new facility that I would think is capable of handling the entire new airline," he said.
"

There is not one reason why the DFW SOC would be closed so that PIT can remain.

"I don't fault US Airways for how they are establishing their route structure and where they're going to put their focus cities. What I fought them on was the way they did it," Mr. George said."

Fight them over "the way they did it"? Not exactly choosing your battles very well. In the mean time, this is the guy who wasted money on an unneeded wide body deice pad and an addition to the landside terminal all while the airport's costs were already sky high.

US Airways decision to pull down PIT was business, not personal. All the focus on this is ridiculous at a time airlines have increased seats at PIT over the past year by 4% while traffic is actually lower over the past year. A horrible combination for an airport. AA's new PIT-LAX flight goes out half full on most days. The ACAA and local leaders need to focus on the current challenges.
FLYi
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 11):
US Airways decision to pull down PIT was business, not personal. All the focus on this is ridiculous at a time airlines have increased seats at PIT over the past year by 4% while traffic is actually lower over the past year. A horrible combination for an airport. AA's new PIT-LAX flight goes out half full on most days. The ACAA and local leaders need to focus on the current challenges.

Good points. I'm trying to figure out why that 738 is only half full. The traffic is definitely there to support such a flight. Is the flight not timed well? Does it offer adequate onward connections to the rest of the West Coast as well as to Hawaii and the South Pacific? Is is possible for AA to switch the time so that they can gain in LF?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 10):

Just noticed the TFR filed:

Quote:
Area A
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1645 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1145 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 1745 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1245 EST)
Area B
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1645 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1145 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 1745 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1245 EST)
Area C
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the ALLEGHENY VOR/DME (AGC) 078 degree radial at 6 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º18'54"N, Longitude: 79º55'12"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1700 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1200 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2015 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1515 EST)
Area D
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the ALLEGHENY VOR/DME (AGC) 078 degree radial at 6 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º18'54"N, Longitude: 79º55'12"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1700 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1200 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2015 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1515 EST)
Area E
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1930 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1430 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2100 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1600 EST)
Area F
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the MONTOUR VORTAC (MMJ) 290 degree radial at 2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 40º29'42"N, Longitude: 80º14'13"W)
Radius: 10 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From January 29, 2014 at 1930 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1430 EST)
To January 29, 2014 at 2100 UTC (January 29, 2014 at 1600 EST)
 
beiaard
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 1):

Great stuff. Is that mobile visible in roughly the 17th photo from the top the same as the one that currently is in the Midfield terminal?
BONARUM ARTIUM RERUMQUE HUMANARUM AC DIVINARUM STUDIOSOS CONVOCAMUS
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12):
Is the flight not timed well? Does it offer adequate onward connections to the rest of the West Coast as well as to Hawaii and the South Pacific?

It does offer connections, however the down time at LAX for South Pacific connections is quite long. The problem with a 5pm departure is it does not allow for a full business day in Pittsburgh. It should be scheduled to depart later, or first thing in the morning.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12):
Is is possible for AA to switch the time so that they can gain in LF?

I'm sure there is a reason it is scheduled as is. Perhaps lack of gate space at LAX. I'm hopeful loads will improve as the US/AA integration continues, and hopefully they would use a smaller A-319 before considering axing frequencies.

Production of at least 3 more movies is set to begin in Pittsburgh in the next few months, that should help things as well.

Quoting beiaard (Reply 14):

Great stuff. Is that mobile visible in roughly the 17th photo from the top the same as the one that currently is in the Midfield terminal?

Thanks; I believe it is the same mobile but not 100% sure. Perhaps someone that works at the airport can answer that one.
FLYi
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:04 am

I'm not sure what to think of this one...


"Allegheny County wooing Emirates airline"
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...rates-airline/stories/201401310091


The 'hub' idea is a non starter, unless the intent is to fly to PIT as a spoke and set up code shares with domestic carriers here which may be slightly more realistic but still not probable.

OTOH, with the amount of airplanes EK will be getting, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility EK will be serving medium sized markets with healthy economies; such as RDU, MSP, etc. within 5 years. Similar idea to BA's entry into AUS.

Also, with PIT's location between the northeast and midwest, it makes sense to make a case to Emirates SkyCargo for a flight combined with road feeder service. Add to that PIT promoting itself to be a primary A380 diversion airport for EK .... this trip isn't a total wasted effort.
FLYi
 
GSP psgr
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:17 am

With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish). Also, keep in mind that the new AA flight competes almost directly with United's nonstop, rather than having a distinctly different departure time (such as a morning departure PIT-LAX).
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):

So they want to get EK to set up a hub at PIT? Yeah, as stated in the article, Johnny Law will say no to this...

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 17):
With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish).

Does the E90 even have the range? That's roughly 2300 miles or so from PIT-LAX. Plus, who would want to spend 6 hours in a rather small cabin? I think the A319 idea would be more logical. Didn't US use the A319 on this route right up until they axed service a few years or so ago?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Flaps
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:41 pm

My god Larry Fitzgerald is an even bigger idiot than i thought. If his ignorance of aviation and PIT's options/potential is any reflection on his knowledge base in general this county is in a LOT of trouble. EK? Old larry must be smoking crack with his counterpart up in Toronto. You couldn't fill a 777 to DXB once a month if you consolidated all of the middle east and Asian traffic for the entire month out of PIT onto that flight.

Looks like another excuse for an expensive political jaunt at best.
 
Logos
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 18):
Does the E90 even have the range? That's roughly 2300 miles or so from PIT-LAX. Plus, who would want to spend 6 hours in a rather small cabin?

It's got the range. AC used to run it for YYZ-SAN. It's not quite a 6 hour flight, either, as flightaware lists the AA flight at 5:10 scheduled today westbound which includes winter winds. That's probably about as bad as it ever gets. The seats themselves in an E190 are wider than those in a 737, too, so I don't think comfort would be that bad at all actually.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
"Allegheny County wooing Emirates airline"
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...10091

Best news article I've read all week.      

Quoting Logos (Reply 20):
The seats themselves in an E190 are wider than those in a 737, too, so I don't think comfort would be that bad at all actually.

      Also no middle seats.
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 17):
With the combined new fleet that US/AA will have, perhaps it would simply make more sense to run PIT-LAX as a 319 or E90 (90-125) seats route rather than a 738 (160-ish).

I've suggested the A319 as well, but there may be a downside with first class offerings. There are times when the first class is fully booked on the 738. AA's A319s only have half the first class seats. Is the extra revenue generated by a full first class enough to offset the higher operating costs of a 738? Only AA has that data. Of course they could schedule a 738 on some days and an A319 on others.

I've never been on US' E190s, but if the first class offering is not up to par to AA's A319s or 737s, then the E190 is a non starter for this route.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
If his ignorance of aviation and PIT's options/potential is any reflection on his knowledge base in general this county is in a LOT of trouble. EK? Old larry must be smoking crack with his counterpart up in Toronto.

I'm certainly no fan of his, but I'll give him a tiny bit of credit for at least thinking outside the box. I'm sure there will be other trade related business as part of this trip as well.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
You couldn't fill a 777 to DXB once a month if you consolidated all of the middle east and Asian traffic for the entire month out of PIT onto that flight.

Demand certainly isn't there today. But I don't think demand is that grim to that part of the world. Demand to cities such as Shanghai, Beijing, Seoul, Delhi, etc is not much lower than that of any city in Europe outside London. Also, growth to those markets from PIT has been 200-300% during the past 10 years.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

One amazing thing about Emirates is their track record of stimulating markets where there was none. SEA for example struggled to fill a 772 when EK first began. Barely 2 years later the route is being upgauged to a 77W.

Does than mean I think EK serving PIT will become a reality any time soon? Of course not. Should Fitzy be spending his time with Frontier and Alaska instead? Absolutely. But like I said earlier, in about five years time strong medium sized white collar markets such as RDU, AUS, MSP, etc will be fair game for EK service. If Pittsburgh's economy continues to evolve in the next 5 years like it did in the last 5 years, I don't hesitate at all to put Pittsburgh in the same league as those cities. I actually have no issues with this trip to Dubai.
FLYi
 
tarmacphotos
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:16 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
I'm not sure what to think of this one...

Sounds like Fitzy and his wife want a vacation to Dubai on the taxpayers dime, so he made up this bogus reason. Nothing ever changes with these Allegheny County politicians.
 
dumbell2424
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:14 am

News today of CLE hub closing down for UA...I doubt the Dash 8 will stick around.
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:36 am

Yep, those flights will be gone for sure. One less city on our route map.


"Pittsburgh International struggling despite the region's robust economy"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...ittsburgh-fitzgerald#axzz2s8EF5JqZ
FLYi
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:48 am

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 24):
News today of CLE hub closing down for UA...I doubt the Dash 8 will stick around.
Quoting PITrules (Reply 25):
Yep, those flights will be gone for sure. One less city on our route map.


"Pittsburgh International struggling despite the region's robust economy"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...ittsburgh-fitzgerald#axzz2s8EF5JqZ

A fellow A.netter on Facebook posted the news story. That royally sucks for CLE. Granted it would be one less city in the route network, but how many people do fly between PIT and CLE? I guess if people would rather drive; all the power to 'em. Personally, I still think rail is a better option than the Turnpike...

Still, though, isn't CLE"s economy still floundering?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Cush
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:28 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 26):
but how many people do fly between PIT and CLE?

It isn't folks flying between PIT and CLE as an end destination, but connecting in Cleveland for flights elsewhere.

A while ago, I was pricing flights on United, and my options for connections were ORD / CLE / EWR / IAD. What awful options! It's funny... I think of other US airports and cringe. I think of PIT and I feel at ease. We really are lucky to have such a great airport, albeit a lack of a single large airline presence.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
tarmacphotos
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:52 am

Quoting Cush (Reply 27):
A while ago, I was pricing flights on United, and my options for connections were ORD / CLE / EWR / IAD. What awful options!

Connection options from PIT (and anywhere else without much non-stop service) sucks on the East Coast. The only airport I enjoy connecting on the East Coast is CLT. I will NEVER connect in PHL or any of the New York area messes. ATL, IAD, ORD and MIA are also messes. CLE was actually not a bad connection airport if flying UA compared to the others.
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:33 am

AC Milan and Manchester City will be playing in Pittsburgh in July; hopefully we will see some interesting team charters.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/o...t-Heinz-Field/stories/201402020217
FLYi
 
JetBlue1058
Posts: 122
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:33 pm

Looks like LBE is losing its Nonstop LBE-DFW flights on Spirit at the beginning of April.
JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
 
PITrules
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:12 pm

"Closing of Cleveland United hub could benefit Pittsburgh International Airport"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...nd-pittsburgh-united#axzz2sEkaIVSq

" United's announcement gives Pittsburgh an opportunity to gain passengers, said Brad Penrod, Allegheny County Airport Authority's president and chief strategy officer. The airport has spent about $450,000 annually for five years to advertise in the Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown markets.

“Because of that advertising presence as these people seek to fill that void, we'd like to think a few more passengers out of that region will be Pittsburgh passengers,” Penrod said. “This will give us an opportunity to expand our marketplace area. It's a positive for us.”
"

Mr. Penrod is such a dimwit if he really believes this. PIT has benefited from the domination of one airline and resulting high fares at CLE as those customers have driven down in search of lower air fares. With CLE's de-hubbing, fares there will come down resulting in less people driving to PIT in search of lower fares. Not to mention CLE instantly becoming a lot more attractive market for other airlines looking to expand.

[Edited 2014-02-04 04:42:08]
FLYi
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 30):
Looks like LBE is losing its Nonstop LBE-DFW flights on Spirit at the beginning of April.

That sucks. But isn't that more of a business destination rather than leisure, and isn't NK's clientelle mostly leisure? I remember people arguing that when LBE-DFW was announced..

Quoting PITrules (Reply 31):
Mr. Penrod is such a dimwit if he really believes this. PIT has benefited from the domination of one airline and resulting high fares at CLE as those customers have driven down in search of lower air fares. With CLE's de-hubbing, fares there will come down resulting in less people driving to PIT in search of lower fares. Not to mention CLE instantly becoming a lot more attractive market for other airlines looking to expand.

Agreed. There's speculation that they could be wooing B6 for JFK and/or BOS service and perhaps a few more destinations.

WN already has a presence there, they could consider building up CLE...

I guess they could add a few more FLA destinations, maybe some Northeastern markets and/or possibly PHX...

Does AS serve CLE? If they don't already and do end up coming to CLE, that might hamper any chances of PIT possibly landing them...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 32):
Does AS serve CLE? If they don't already and do end up coming to CLE, that might hamper any chances of PIT possibly landing them...

AS doesn't serve CLE (or anywhere in Kentucky/Ohio/Indiana/Michigan for that matter - that is the largest hole in the network). The Big 4 get a lot of their connecting flows from SEA over the Midwest hubs to the cities east of Chicago. I always see a lot of bag tags and boarding passes to those destinations on my flights.

CLE is right at the edge of viability from SEA; PDEW in the on-season is right about the level to fill a 738, but off season is tough. Unfortunately, this is true for most of the remaining dots to connect to SEA; high seasonality, low AS brand recognition, local traffic is loyal to the Big 4 and no major corporate connections.

The next move for AS could be to open a new station, but AS is also responding to DL's SEA buildup. AS also has gate space constraints in the AM peak departing SEA.

For new AS stations, PIT would be evaluated alongside CLE, IND, MSY, RDU, and TPA, which are the largest markets from SEA without any n/s service.

Of those cities, TPA is the largest market, but has the lowest yields (and AS serves MCO 2x daily). PIT has the best yield but the lowest pax numbers.

CLE, IND, and MSY are fairly similar in terms of stage length, demand, and yields. Unfortunately, on balance I think they are ahead of PIT for getting SEA service.
 
kubus
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:49 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:34 am

Two things:
if you are on US flight, grab the in flight mag and look at the combined fleet listings... apparently EMB145 looks exactly like ERJ170 and 737 is now in shape of A320 series. Gave me a chuckle.

Second. I just noticed the talk about AA LAX flight and questioning the timing of the flight. I just want to point out that B6's flights to JFK failed because of the bad timing for what is a major business route. Couple weeks ago I was on a DL flight to LGA and was offered a front seat on JFK flight and a voucher for future flight, so I took it. I finally understood why no sane person with a day business trip wants to fly in/out of JFK. The commute into Mid-Town was over 1.5 hrs for $24 on public transportation (I took LIRR), where from LGA using Q70 bus and E or F train takes roughly 45min and $2.50.
However
I'll put up with the schedule, just to get the $120 fare back.
 
PITrules
Topic Author
Posts: 2109
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 32):
But isn't that more of a business destination rather than leisure, and isn't NK's clientelle mostly leisure? I remember people arguing that when LBE-DFW was announced..

My take on this was LBE is more leisure based and DFW service was quite a surprise. But a pleasant one, because if DFW works as a business market then it opens up a whole bunch of other business possibilities from LBE (CHI, BOS, etc). So that was not to be, but I still think LBE-ACY/RSW/LAS are still possible.

Quoting kubus (Reply 34):
Second. I just noticed the talk about AA LAX flight and questioning the timing of the flight. I just want to point out that B6's flights to JFK failed because of the bad timing for what is a major business route. Couple weeks ago I was on a DL flight to LGA and was offered a front seat on JFK flight and a voucher for future flight, so I took it. I finally understood why no sane person with a day business trip wants to fly in/out of JFK. The commute into Mid-Town was over 1.5 hrs for $24 on public transportation (I took LIRR), where from LGA using Q70 bus and E or F train takes roughly 45min and $2.50.

I know we've discussed this before, but I don't see how B6 did not offer a descent schedule for business travellers considering they offered 4x daily flights each way when they started. The problem wasn't B6's initial schedule, it was local flyers staying committed to US despite it being JetBlue causing airfares to be slashed.

Also, only a small percentage of travelers go to mid town Manhattan. What about lower Manhattan? The rest of the metro? JFK serves more domestic passengers than LGA now (or will shortly) so I don't buy into the LGA 'convenience' factor too much.
FLYi
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 35):
Also, only a small percentage of travelers go to mid town Manhattan. What about lower Manhattan?

Do you suppose anyone would be ballsy enough to go up against UA on PIT-EWR if people would rather go into Lower Manhattan versus Midtown...

What does UA run on PIT-EWR, isn't that mostly ExpressJet flying?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 35):
The problem wasn't B6's initial schedule, it was local flyers staying committed to US despite it being JetBlue causing airfares to be slashed.

I must disagree. While your point about the US FF's is quite valid, B6 had a horrible schedule to JFK. Combined with poor connecting opportunities and fares beyond JFK that weren't very competitive the service was doomed. I bent over backwards trying to fly B6 and could almost never find an out and back schedule to JFK that worked effectively for business and as mentioned before the connections were never competitive. This was over a period of several years so these were not isolated instances. Often I could get one way or the other to work but never a round trip,

When someone wants to fly you, tries to fly you, and goes out of their way to fly you and still cant create a usable itinerary then you have an issue.
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:03 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 36):
What does UA run on PIT-EWR, isn't that mostly ExpressJet flying?

Not even....the grand majority is Q400s with an occasional E135/170.
 
JetBlue1058
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:33 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:16 am

Flaps- you are probably in the small (slim) percent that attempted to try B6 whenever, instead of the vast majority of yinzers just saw low fares and went oh yes yes (US with low fares) yes yes!
Whatever, this topic has been beaten to death other the past year, and people will continue to disagree, while I bet very few of you have made the effort to support B6 here in PIT, by flying through BOS during the past year.
-Frequent JetBlue flyer and diehard fan.
JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 39):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 37):

I know it's unfortunate that PIT lost B6 service from JFK. I think in the long run it's better for you guys. I can't speak for PIT but I'm a jetBlue flyer down in CLT and we have 2X BOS and 2X JFK. Our schedules are terrible aka "token service". My reasoning is with your loss of PIT-JFK, B6 added flights from BOS to PIT to give you guys a real "schedule" not some token service. I'm not trying to state the obvious. I'm emphasizing how much you guys can benefit from it. I would hate to lose JFK but I much rather have a schedule of flights rather than two moring flights and two evening flights and hey at least US is only using CRJs and E175s lol
 
PITrules
Topic Author
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RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:09 am

Here are the DoT daily (each way) passenger numbers and average fares in the following currently unserved markets to SEA in June '13:

PIT-SEA 202 $314
*CLE-SEA 263 $285
IND-SEA 283 $270
RDU-SEA 263 $310

*IIRC CLE had service to SEA at the time of the report. Since merely having service increases passenger numbers by about 30% those numbers are inflated if we are to make a fair comparison to the unserved markets. Also, as CLE loses its hub and competition increases the fares there will come down, so keep that in mind as well.

Now that MSY and TPA are out of the way, I think RDU-SEA would be the next obvious choice based on those numbers. But after that PIT might actually have a descent shot at AS service.




"Arnold Palmer Regional Airport focuses on busy routes"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...t-flights-passengers#axzz2stcCUfle



Also of note today is a spiked increase of corporate jet traffic at PIT from Chevron and the energy industry, no doubt due to a local gas well explosion and ongoing fire.
FLYi
 
PITrules
Topic Author
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:50 pm

Here comes the diversion of the day, an Emirates B773

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE231

Also a US A332
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE832

[Edited 2014-02-13 06:38:56]
FLYi
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:56 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 42):
an Emirates B773

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE231

This was totally planned, they're testing out the facilities and meeting Fitzgerald for the new hub.     

A couple others:

US 321 MCO-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20140213/1250Z/KMCO/KPIT
US 319 MSP-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20140213/1300Z/KMSP/KPIT
US 320 MIA-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20140213/1245Z/KMIA/KPIT
US 319 BWI-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20140213/1010Z/KBWI/KPIT
US 190 AUS-PHL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20140213/1345Z/KAUS/KPIT

[Edited 2014-02-13 09:05:59]

[Edited 2014-02-13 09:06:26]
 
tooluther
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:21 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:08 pm

A couple pictures of diversions from the PIT Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152289616608933&type=3&l=d2d645ef46
 
tarmacphotos
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:38 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:48 am

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 43):
This was totally planned, they're testing out the facilities and meeting Fitzgerald for the new hub.    

I'm pretty sure they will spin it that way.
 
pliersinsight
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:06 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting tooluther (Reply 44):

A couple pictures of diversions from the PIT Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152289616608933&type=3&l=d2d645ef46

Yes, the PIT Facebook page, where they don't even know how many people the standard 777 or A330 configuration will carry, here's a hint, it is not 500+........
 
Flytravel
Posts: 663
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:37 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 40):
B6 added flights from BOS to PIT to give you guys a real "schedule"

B6 still doesn't have an early morning departure out of PIT into BOS and late return but US does offer it.

I wonder with US/AA slowly downsizing MDT-BOS, if these point to point BOS routes by US are vulnerable. If B6 added that one to two extra flights to put pressure on PIT-BOS so it offers an even more comprehensive PIT-BOS schedule then if US/AA would pull out. And to get loyalty from PIT pax while B6 and US duke it out, additionally, if it offered one leisure route like PIT-FLL where it can also connect pax to more destinations from there.

There are so many opportunities for the new AA to link existing ORD only markets to PHL and existing PHL/CLT only markets to ORD, that defending BOS point to point routes probably will be of lower priority, and B6 could claim this route to themselves atleast for awhile before DL starts it up.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:36 pm

If AA/US ever dropped BOS-PIT I would imagine DL would be back on it before B6 could generate a press release.
 
PITrules
Topic Author
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: PIT Update Thread 28

Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:18 am

" Passenger traffic at Pittsburgh International Airport for 2013 was down 2 percent compared to 2012, airport officials said Friday.

The airport in Findlay recorded 7.85 million passengers compared to 8 million in 2012.
"
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...airport-percent-2012#axzz2tKtk0OG6
FLYi

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