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Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:45 pm

As the previous thread became quite long and slow to load for some users, it was locked for further comments. Please feel free to continue your discussion in this thread. Part 8 can be found here:

Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 8 (by PHX787 Dec 7 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Enjoy the forums!

Regards,

SA7700
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:38 pm

I never meant to imply that PHX is going to be another STL, because it won't. PHX has far too much going for it for that to happen. STL was a bastard step child of a hub that AA never really wanted to begin with. Having three hubs within 800 miles of each other was destined failure, AA only gave STL a shot because the summer of 2000 produced horrific delays at ORD because of traffic and DFW having had a rough summer with thunderstorms. It was thought that STL could perhaps function as a reliever hub for the other two. For various reasons, that didn't work, mostly because the necessity to do so was no longer there.

I don't think the same is true with PHX because it's certainly more valuable and has superior O&D.

I do think PHX will see a significant right sizing, but I don't see it being de-hubbed. Logically, AA/US is tapped out for space at LAX, so PHX still has some value as a western regional hub.
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aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:46 pm

I think we all know that there are going to be some reductions with the new AA.

My question would be will AA use larger aircraft 321, 320 over RJ's and CJ's to cut the number of flights. I know that this would reduce the number of flights, but might keep the number of seats similar or a little reduced to the number we have now. It seems like symantecs, but I also think it could be a way to appease some in that while the number of flights might be reduced the number of seats would/could be minimally effected.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 2):
My question would be will AA use larger aircraft 321, 320 over RJ's and CJ's to cut the number of flights.

Most of the cities that see RJs are FAT, BFD, SBA, SBP, BUR, LGB, YUM, FLG, PSP, TUS, MRY, ABQ, ELP, HMO. The only ones of those I could see a moving to a couple of A319s instead would be LGB, BUR, TUS, ABQ with a reduction in frequency I may be missing a city pair. I could see a situation where cities like MKE, BWI, CMH, IND, STL, move from 2/3x 319/320 to 1/2x 320/321. In other words moving out A319s in favor of less frequent A320s and A321s, which they have done a considerable amount of that already.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:55 am

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 2):
My question would be will AA use larger aircraft 321, 320 over RJ's and CJ's to cut the number of flights.

l
The trend towards larger aircraft started already several years ago. It's amazing how many flights are operated withA321 these days, and a lot of it is real capacity increase. Take for example PHX-JFK: for many years there three flights daily, most on A319, ocasionally an A320. Now it's 4 flights daily, three on A321! PHX-DCA: used to be a single A319 daily. Nowadays it's an A321, a B752 and an A319.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 1):
I do think PHX will see a significant right sizing,

Indeed, it will be sized up.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:58 am

Hey guys I don't think I should do the traditional thread intro anymore since I'm not gonna be living in PHX for another few years hahaha

But I will be back in the valley on March 6, for a week or so.


I'm going to have to concede there will be some reductions in frequencies but PHX has the O&D to sustain most routes on their current roster and maybe even add some. E.g., CVG.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:12 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
I'm going to have to concede there will be some reductions in frequencies but PHX has the O&D to sustain most routes on their current roster and maybe even add some. E.g., CVG.

I agree. I think a few weaker cities may get dropped -- particularly those already serviced from LAX or DFW -- and I think it's possible that we'll lose quite a bit of service due to RJ reductions, although that will likely be a combination of their "right sizing" and because of the growing pilot shortage.

AA/US is the only major carrier to have not made a significant move towards replacing smaller RJs with larger ones, and will still be using a significant number of 50-seaters for the foreseeable future. I don't think they'll be as well-positioned as Delta, and to a much lesser extent United, to weather the pilot shortage. United was similarly unprepared, but the purchase of a large number of E175s and bringing more CRJ700s into the fleet will at least remedy the issue, something AA/US hasn't done to a similar extent. DL's additions of the 717 and large RJs, effectively eliminating 50-seaters and giving them F on every flight, means they are much better prepared.

All of that plays into the ultimate fate of PHX and just how many flights we're likely to lose. Like CLE, whose cuts were inevitable and were conveniently blamed on the shortage, I think PHX could be "right sized" with AA claiming a similar rationale. I don't think the cuts will be devastating, but they will be significant and leave open the possibility of someone else taking a sizable market share to fill the void. Whether that will be WN or someone else will remain to be seen, just please not NK. Anyone but NK. I wonder if it could actually be a good way for F9 and their new ownership to have a fresh start outside of the Charlie Foxtrot that is DEN...

[Edited 2014-02-19 13:14:10]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 6):
AA/US is the only major carrier to have not made a significant move towards replacing smaller RJs with larger ones, and will still be using a significant number of 50-seaters for the foreseeable future. I don't think they'll be as well-positioned as Delta, and to a much lesser extent United, to weather the pilot shortage. United was similarly unprepared, but the purchase of a large number of E175s and bringing more CRJ700s into the fleet will at least remedy the issue, something AA/US hasn't done to a similar extent.
AA currently has more than 100 76-seat jets on order and yet to be delivered, on top of the ~190 they already fly. The combined new AA's present fleet plus backlog brings them to well over 300 large RJs within just a few years time. Please correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that's actually more than United plans to have in that time (at least officially acknowledged as-of-yet). Now I agree most of these jets will go to replacing existing 50-seat fleets, so I suspect the new AA's 50-seat fleet will shrink dramatically in coming years, but even still there will be lots of new planes coming. If we use a 2:3 replacement ratio of new 76-seaters to 50-seaters, which I think is a fair approximation, we'd end up with AA's 100+ new 76-seats replacing over 150 50-seaters, and that's not counting that I think many existing AA/US large RJs are going to be getting replaced by mainline and reprioritized to replace 50-seaters as well.

Either way, I think the impact on PHX from this RJ issue is going to be relatively minimal compared to the larger dynamics at play with PHX economics. It's a lower-yielding hub with a competing hub by a lower-cost carrier, and it serves almost no traffic flow that other AA hubs don't already serve. That's a far bigger issue than RJs (especially since PHX is already among the least-RJ-centric hubs AA has).

[Edited 2014-02-19 13:31:35]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):

I'm not sure exactly how many UA will have, but I don't think it's too far off of AA's number. My impression was that many of UA's E-Jet deliveries were earlier than AA's, and since the problem is becoming fairly imminent, it might put UA in a better position in the short- to medium-term. UA has a lot of ERJ-145s and CRJ-200s floating around that need to go away, but AA has just about as many. If anything, perhaps they're both somewhat equally screwed with Delta in a far better position, but I think the effect on PHX is the same. With an all-but-certain decrease in service and a move towards larger aircraft, there will most certainly be fewer flight options and less traffic at PHX. We'll also risk losing links to a lot of smaller markets as the pilot shortage worsens and the 50-seaters withdraw.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:58 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
I think the impact on PHX from this RJ issue is going to be relatively minimal compared to the larger dynamics at play with PHX economics. It's a lower-yielding hub with a competing hub by a lower-cost carrier, and it serves almost no traffic flow that other AA hubs don't already serve. That's a far bigger issue than RJs (especially since PHX is already among the least-RJ-centric hubs AA has).
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
We'll also risk losing links to a lot of smaller markets as the pilot shortage worsens and the 50-seaters withdraw.

Considering US does not operate the 50 seat RJ's, that AA plans on retiring soon, these aircraft will have no impact on PHX ops, especially over the next 2 years since the airline will not be fully integrated until this time. Once this time approaches, the PHX hub will be ready to be downsized due to network redundancies.

[Edited 2014-02-19 16:20:27]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
Considering US does not operate the 50 seat RJ's, that AA plans on retiring soon, these aircraft will have no impact on PHX ops, especially over the next 2 years since the airline will not be fully integrated until this time. Once this time approaches, the PHX hub will be ready to be downsized due to network redundancies.

I wasn't talking about imminent cuts...I was taking about 2-3 years from now. It all depends on how they intend to utilize their aircraft then. Just because the replacements aren't currently going to the US side doesn't mean they won't in a few years time, and by then they'll be cross-fleeting anyway. Furthermore, depending on how severe the pilot shortage actually becomes, the 50-seat aircraft may be most affected due to their unprofitability (in particular the abundance of CRJ200s they contract) and a potential lack of pilots to fly them. So yes, all of that does have an effect on the PHX hub over the next few years in addition to however much downsizing they plan on doing. But as I said, I was not taking near-term. The next 12-24 months should be business as usual, with the only possible effects coming from the pilot shortage.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
If anything, perhaps they're both somewhat equally screwed with Delta in a far better position

I don't see how. Per Delta's own press release, the carrier has a hard cap of 325 large RJs. AA currently has either operational or on firm order large RJs totaling 303 tails. And this is for two airplanes that are now roughly the same, and this also assumes AA doesn't exercise any of the options it has outstanding for more large RJs. I'd hardly call that a "far better position" for Delta. AA presently has 332 50-seat RJs in operation (although this number will likely shrink materially this year, anyway), so if one assumes the 90 large RJs on firm order replace 50-seaters on an average 3:2 basis - which I think is reasonable - that brings them down to around 195 50-seat jets. When accounting for some level of existing 50-seat markets getting cut altogether and large RJ markets upgauging to mainline, I would not be at all surprised if AA ends up right around the same place as Delta - about 125-150 50-seaters. Again - don't see any enormous advantage for Delta.

In AA's case, I suspect they'll be able to manage the rapid drawdown of 50-seat flying fairly easily given the ability to upgauge the majority of 50-seat markets to lower-frequency 76-seat markets, and upgauge some of the existing 70-seat markets to mainline, further freeing up large RJ lift - just as Delta is doing. (AA does, after all, still have several hundred new mainline jets arriving in the next five years, on top of the >100 large RJs.)

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 10):
I wasn't talking about imminent cuts...I was taking about 2-3 years from now. It all depends on how they intend to utilize their aircraft then. Just because the replacements aren't currently going to the US side doesn't mean they won't in a few years time, and by then they'll be cross-fleeting anyway.

I agree - as I said, I think the broader economic and strategic issues facing PHX are far bigger issues to overcome than an RJ pilot shortage. I still maintain that PHX is going to shrink as a hub, with or without an RJ pilot shortage.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 10):
Furthermore, depending on how severe the pilot shortage actually becomes, the 50-seat aircraft may be most affected due to their unprofitability (in particular the abundance of CRJ200s they contract) and a potential lack of pilots to fly them.

I don't think it's dependent on anything at this point - I think it's pretty clear. The pilot shortage is going to be severe, and the 50-seat jets are going to be parked precipitously in the coming years.

[Edited 2014-02-20 15:34:09]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:13 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
I don't see how. Per Delta's own press release, the carrier has a hard cap of 325 large RJs.

Yes, but you're forgetting that DL is taking all of AirTran's 717s, which is basically a large RJ. That concession allowed an increase in the scope clause for large RJs, and both of those mean that they will effectively be rid of 50-seaters, along with every aircraft having F.

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
I agree - as I said, I think the broader economic and strategic issues facing PHX are far bigger issues to overcome than an RJ pilot shortage. I still maintain that PHX is going to shrink as a hub, with or without an RJ pilot shortage.

Right, but I wonder if the pilot shortage may exacerbate the problem and force further cuts, along with losing service to a lot of smaller communities, FLG for example.

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
I don't think it's dependent on anything at this point - I think it's pretty clear. The pilot shortage is going to be severe, and the 50-seat jets are going to be parked precipitously in the coming years.

Of course, but I was addressing its effect on the PHX hub. The east coast hubs PHL and CLT may be worse off because of the large number of DHC-8s they utilize, and maybe the Saabs? I forget if they still use those. PHX has divested itself from all of those small props, and I imagine those will be the first to go. It may not initially hurt PHX as much as the other two.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 12):
Yes, but you're forgetting that DL is taking all of AirTran's 717s, which is basically a large RJ.

And AA is taking numerous new A319s, on top of those US already flies, and those are only 16% larger than the DL 717s. (And note: there are multiple recent examples at DL of recently-all-RJ routes seeing upgauges to mainline in the form of ... A319s.) Again - I see no discernible advantage here for DL. And I also further don't think this will have any net effect on the ultimate fate of PHX.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 12):
Of course, but I was addressing its effect on the PHX hub. The east coast hubs PHL and CLT may be worse off because of the large number of DHC-8s they utilize, and maybe the Saabs? I forget if they still use those. PHX has divested itself from all of those small props, and I imagine those will be the first to go. It may not initially hurt PHX as much as the other two.

Okay, but it's a broad network, so it's not necessarily a matter of "PHL and CLT have 50-seaters so those will feel the worst cuts." If tons of 50-seat capacity has to come out of the overall system - which it will - capacity will naturally reallocate across all the hubs regardless of which are immediately affected by the 50-seaters themselves.

[Edited 2014-02-20 16:56:56]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:25 pm

Looking over the Maricopa Flood Control District historical images, it appears that Terminal 3 was expanded some time between 1982 and 1986. I always knew about the HP addition but I hadn't known they extended T3-South over 60% and North by almost 30% (to where it stays today). I assume this was done in conjunction with the HP expansion over that time but does anyone have more information on it? I had also forgotten about "the T" at the end of T2.

If you want to waste hours here is the link to their historical aerial image archive.

http://gis.maricopa.gov/MapApp/GIO/AerialHistorical/index.html
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 14):

That was very interesting, thanks for that link. I find it amazing how much the airport has changed over the years. Someone that stuck out to me was the 2006 aerial image was the jetway that UA express gate has a jetway on it. I have never knew that there was a jetway there since it is no longer there. When UA express operated of C and D gates they used a outdoor boarding ramp as of a year and a half ago. Also good amount of ZK planes there as well.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):
That was very interesting, thanks for that link. I find it amazing how much the airport has changed over the years. Someone that stuck out to me was the 2006 aerial image was the jetway that UA express gate has a jetway on it. I have never knew that there was a jetway there since it is no longer there. When UA express operated of C and D gates they used a outdoor boarding ramp as of a year and a half ago. Also good amount of ZK planes there as well.

I remember the jetway at gate C. Air Canada used to use that gate quite often with the A319, their 762's used gate 7 usually. I flew out of that gate a few times over the years, it was quite a hike up to a 757.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:27 pm

Last I recall using C was for Shuttle by United flights back when that was a thing.

Anyone recall the name of the motel/hotel that was across from Terminal 1?

[Edited 2014-02-24 12:37:39]
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 16):
I remember the jetway at gate C. Air Canada used to use that gate quite often with the A319, their 762's used gate 7 usually. I flew out of that gate a few times over the years, it was quite a hike up to a 757

I never noticed it until now and there is really no indication of a jetway ever being there now since that ramp has been resurfaced. When was Air Canada at T2?

So with AA moving out of T3 this week. Only SY and HA remain, seems like a little to much concourse for two airlines that operate once a day.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
never noticed it until now and there is really no indication of a jetway ever being there now since that ramp has been resurfaced. When was Air Canada at T2?

AC used T2 when they first started service to PHX, and continued to use T2 up to around 2005 or 2006 if I recall correctly. UA did all the handling of AC flights while they were at T2, they switched over to Serviceair when they moved to T4. I would go spotting with my dad all the time in the 90s and early 2000s and remember seeing the AC 767-200 at T2 often, among many other long gone airlines and aircraft.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):

So with AA moving out of T3 this week. Only SY and HA remain, seems like a little to much concourse for two airlines that operate once a day.

So what are the options? T3-North has basically no room. I'm sure they could squeeze those flights up there if they had to but at what cost. Can a 767 fit at T2 anymore?
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 20):
So what are the options? T3-North has basically no room. I'm sure they could squeeze those flights up there if they had to but at what cost. Can a 767 fit at T2 anymore?

SY just moved to T3S from the north concourse, so I doubt they will move back to where they just moved from. The only widebody capable T2 gates I know of are used by UA currently, and are usually full at the times HA operates. I think there's a better chance of HA moving back to T4 again then to T2, but most likely HA and SY will just stay where they are for the time being.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 20):
So what are the options? T3-North has basically no room. I'm sure they could squeeze those flights up there if they had to but at what cost. Can a 767 fit at T2 anymore?

T3 north has no room! There has been a Omni 772 at T2 so a 763 can fit over there but I don't see HA moving to T2. HA should have just kept their ops at gate 24 since the gate can fit a A330 and is close to DL techops. SY share a gate with B6 or NK?
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 22):

So here we are with T3-South being open a couple hours a day. I fear the TSA not staffing it well enough. I'll find out in a couple weeks when I go to Hawaii.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 20):
Can a 767 fit at T2 anymore?

Gate 3 can handle up to a 777-200 on the alternate lead-in line.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
When was Air Canada at T2?

Prior to December 2008.

AA/US co-location will begin tonight (February 25th). First AA flight to arrive at T4 should be AA1125 from ORD.

http://s1.postimg.org/583xp7wj3/photo_1.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/sod1eu1tp/photo.jpg
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 23):
So here we are with T3-South being open a couple hours a day. I fear the TSA not staffing it well enough. I'll find out in a couple weeks when I go to Hawaii.

Well when you consider that there is/are/were only three lines for all of T-3S there is going to be a wait. The last time I went to Hawai'i we were in the TSA line for about 15 minutes at about 07:00. This being said, one would think that if they could move both HA and SY over to T-4N this could save a lot on the staffing of T-3.

I just thought of something, would DL ever move part of its operation to T-3S if they run out of room on T-3N. I know it would be splitting the system, but it could give them more stake in PHX as well as they would have extra room for RON aircraft. HA would only need their gate from 22:00 - 08:00 so that would allow DL to have extra room.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 24):
AA/US co-location will begin tonight (February 25th). First AA flight to arrive at T4 should be AA1125 from ORD.

WOW, it has begun.......
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:06 pm

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 25):
I just thought of something, would DL ever move part of its operation to T-3S if they run out of room on T-3N

Why did B6 move up to north?
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 26):
Why did B6 move up to north?

Yes, HA and SY are the only ones in T3S now with AA moving to T4N. I guess FR, B6 and NK can move south with HA and SY and that would open gates for DL. I guess I just answered my own stupid question.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:30 pm

This is American's press release regarding the move tonite. It says the gates they will use are B7-14. My understanding is they fly regional jets on the LAX route. All the times I've been to Sky Harbor US has used the B gates in the other concourse for theirs. Can the "new gates" handle the RJ's?

http://skyharbor.com/pdf/AmericanAirlinesMove.pdf
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting austwin (Reply 28):

This is American's press release regarding the move tonite. It says the gates they will use are B7-14. My understanding is they fly regional jets on the LAX route. All the times I've been to Sky Harbor US has used the B gates in the other concourse for theirs. Can the "new gates" handle the RJ's?

http://skyharbor.com/pdf/AmericanAirlinesMove.pdf


B7/9 are already used for RJs. My understanding is that B7 will become primarily a B738 gate with Eagle ops at B9, although in a couple months the Eagle flights will be reduced and presumably fully replaced by US mainline flying to LAX.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 29):
although in a couple months the Eagle flights will be reduced and presumably fully replaced by US mainline flying to LAX.

Seems logical. I can't remember the last time I flew an RJ to LAX but I'm pretty sure they still fly them there.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 30):

Quoting wn676 (Reply 29):
although in a couple months the Eagle flights will be reduced and presumably fully replaced by US mainline flying to LAX.

Seems logical. I can't remember the last time I flew an RJ to LAX but I'm pretty sure they still fly them there.


US has had YV/OO flights there in the past. I might have spoke too soon though about future plans. US is all mainline currently to LAX but will be brining back RJs in the summer. Looks like a couple of YV -900s.
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 31):

OK, thanks. I don't fly to LAX enough to really know the route.
 
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:40 pm

News is reporting that the AA move to T4 went smoothly last night including the movement of IT systems between both terminals. The news also reported that this was the first hub to move both carriers side by side at the airport. I guess they did not consider JFK as a hub  
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:36 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 33):
News is reporting that the AA move to T4 went smoothly last night including the movement of IT systems between both terminals. The news also reported that this was the first hub to move both carriers side by side at the airport. I guess they did not consider JFK as a hub

Indeed, the move went smoothly last night. The PHXspottters facebook page has a lot of pictures up of the first T4 arrivals last night. One of the new A321T's stopped in on a medical diversion too.
Allons-y!
 
austwin
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:39 pm

Sky Harbor's Facebook page also had pics from the move posted from the Phoenix newspaper.
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 33):
News is reporting that the AA move to T4 went smoothly last night including the movement of IT systems between both terminals. The news also reported that this was the first hub to move both carriers side by side at the airport. I guess they did not consider JFK as a hub

Speaking of JFK, one of the long-haul A321s made an emergency stop at PHX T4 for med reasons....and it originated (or was destined to?) JFK.


Btw guys...i'll be in PHX from March 6-13, lets plan a spotters day! 
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Maverick623
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 33):
News is reporting that the AA move to T4 went smoothly last night including the movement of IT systems between both terminals.

It went almost flawlessly, especially considering within the first hour there was a medical diversion. AA really hit the head on the nail with all the support they gave.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:51 pm

The now former AA area which housed AA since 1979 is now a ghost town. I saw US taking all the AA equipment over to T4 last night.

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 25):
I just thought of something, would DL ever move part of its operation to T-3S if they run out of room on T-3N. I know it would be splitting the system, but it could give them more stake in PHX as well as they would have extra room for RON aircraft.

I don't see it happening. Maybe they could work a charter flight or something on that end but as for using former AA gates for RONs or live flight operations I do not see happening. DL would have to pay the city for the use of the jetway plus towing RON planes from the south end to the north end would be a nightmare.

If the airport wants to close T3S what I could see is SY uses gate 24, 25, or 26 for their evening flight. HA uses 24 since it has the 767 and A330 lines and for NK's over night ops they use their gate which is 25 and use 26 after the B6 flights have gone.
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wn676
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:43 pm

A321T diversion from last night. N106NN operating AA133.

http://s10.postimg.org/iptvs0yrd/1653338_10103429107627721_114599946_n.jpg
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Viscount724
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 33):
News is reporting that the AA move to T4 went smoothly last night

Related article with video link covering some of the preparations.
http://www.azcentral.com/travel/arti...n-airlines-moving-day-airline.html
 
chrisair
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:35 am

Saw the airport folks putting up the new signs at T4 last night. On the SkyTrain a few US workers saw the AA planes over at T4 and said it "looks weird having them at our gates."

Will be nice not to have to deal with the SkyTrain to shuttle bus anymore for AA flights.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:27 pm

This is a little FYI for those of you heading to the airport that like to park at the terminal. Sky Harbor is allowing you to pre-pay for terminal parking at 50% off. I used it to pay for the parking for a Hawai'i trip in July and what normally would cost me $200 cost me $109.

http://skyharbor.com/transportationp...ing/PrepaidDiscountParkingApp.htm#
 
PHX787
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:52 pm

When will the Skytrain to T3 open? I haven't heard much yet on it.
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austwin
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:12 pm

I read that the T3 station will open in early 2015.
 
chrisair
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 42):
This is a little FYI for those of you heading to the airport that like to park at the terminal. Sky Harbor is allowing you to pre-pay for terminal parking at 50% off. I used it to pay for the parking for a Hawai'i trip in July and what normally would cost me $200 cost me $109.

Cool link. Here's the only issue I see--they charge you a $2 service fee. Subtract that and you're paying the same ($11) as the East Economy garage or T2 Economy.

Still a cool feature and I'll try it when I'm gone for a day and park at the T4 garage.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 45):
Cool link. Here's the only issue I see--they charge you a $2 service fee. Subtract that and you're paying the same ($11) as the East Economy garage or T2 Economy.

Still a cool feature and I'll try it when I'm gone for a day and park at the T4 garage.

While that is true, I normally park at the terminal when I am going to Hawai'i and it cuts down on the time after the flight with an angry wife (dose not like to fly and gets air sick) and two kids (14 & 12) that just want to go home. This saves me the money, but I agree about the service fee as the only interaction is with the person at the garage and in T-3 there are no self-service lanes that I can remember.
 
austwin
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:52 pm

West Jet announces service between PHX and YYZ. Link to the news release is below:

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=861
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting austwin (Reply 47):

West Jet announces service between PHX and YYZ. Link to the news release is below:

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=861


Hmm. I think I said about a month ago that this route likely wouldn't get another carrier. But I did also say that the most likely candidate would be WestJet. So at least I don't have to completely eat my words!

It'll be good to have a little competition on the route, and more int'l service at PHX is always a good thing. Good luck to WestJet!
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix/Arizona Aviation Thread Pt. 9

Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:10 am

Really shocked to see the US A332 is not a big discussion item on this post.... Saw some pics of it on instagram, its good that the former hometown carrier is finally bringing in wide service.
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