trex8
Topic Author
Posts: 4618
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:42 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...80-and-787-economics-walsh-396458/

Parent company IAG’s chief executive, Willie Walsh, speaking during a full-year results presentation, said the aircraft were performing “in line, if not slightly better, than we would have expected”.

Walsh says technical reliability is ahead of expectations and the company has experienced a “significant reduction of seat costs” with the A380 compared with its Boeing 747-400s.

OMG what will come next! Who would have thought that possible!!!   
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:49 pm

Quoting trex8 (Thread starter):
BA Likes A380

such a shame they're supposedly cancelling them then, isn't it?   

rgds
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6691
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting trex8 (Thread starter):
OMG what will come next! Who would have thought that possible!!!

Look on the bright side, at least we do not have to question the mentality of BA management purchasing new a/c which provide no benefit over the decades old 747 and 767 a/c presently in use.
Good job.
 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:53 pm

Concensus on this site is that the 787 is a turd, BA is talking a lot of trash these days..
 
raggi
Posts: 879
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 4:34 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:10 pm

Do we know how they like their 77Ws?
Stick & Rudder
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20209
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:57 pm

And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
na
Posts: 9170
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):

And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en

I dont know if it needs the naked woman in white linen. Nothing against pretty women but its time-waster here imho.

Anyway, not bad, and much better than the miserable things SQ, EK, QF and others did for the A380. But also not quite as good as what LH did.
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting raggi (Reply 4):
Do we know how they like their 77Ws?

Well, they did place follow up orders for them.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
TC957
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 1):
such a shame they're supposedly cancelling them then, isn't it?

Is that just an a-net theory ? I've not seen anything from BA about this, presume you are referring to their 9th to 12th A380's on order.
I hope BA's satisfaction with their A380's will see them ordering a few more.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3398
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting na (Reply 6):
I dont know if it needs the naked woman in white linen. Nothing against pretty women but its time-waster here imho.
Quoting sweair (Reply 3):
Concensus on this site is that the 787 is a turd, BA is talking a lot of trash these days..

My sarcasm sense is tingling. Good to see they're back on track in a tough trading environment, one only need to glance at QANTAS to see what happens when things get away from you.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:08 pm

Lets see, anet thinks the B787 is a turd.

Airlines have bought hundreds.

I know where my money is.
 
shankly
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Post nationalisation, BA has pretty much always nailed the right aircraft for its missions.

Quoting raggi (Reply 4):
Do we know how they like their 77Ws?

They love 'em
L1011 - P F M
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 8):
Is that just an a-net theory ? I've not seen anything from BA about this, presume you are referring to their 9th to 12th A380's on order.
I hope BA's satisfaction with their A380's will see them ordering a few more.

I agree TC957. Leaving speculation, armchair CEO wishes and sarcasm aside, hopefully BA will grow its A380 fleet a bit more. The congestion at LHR, a recovery of the British economy, the overall growth of the global aviation industry over the coming years and the reliability and cost-effectiveness of the A380 might just result in BA ordering a few more.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
thegivenone
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:05 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:31 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
And to promote the new A380 and 787 fleets, BA introduced a new website:

http://ournewplanes.ba.com/en

Interesting they didn't include the 77W as one of their "New Planes" given that it offers similar cabin refreshments and amenities.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 8):
Is that just an a-net theory?

It's an a.net rumor from, as I understand it, a BA employee with connection to Fleet Planning.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6674
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
The congestion at LHR

I personally think this is overrated when it comes to BA. They just purchased BMI and netted 42 slots and they have already gained a couple by upgrading 3 747/777 slots to LAX & HKG to two A380s. The ME3 are taking a lot of connecting traffic and their growth isn't that strong. They have even mentioned a couple of times that their 747s are too big for some of the routes that they operate them on and will be trading down.

tortugamon
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6674
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting thegivenone (Reply 13):
Interesting they didn't include the 77W as one of their "New Planes" given that it offers similar cabin refreshments and amenities.

They have had the 77Ws for four years.

tortugamon
 
tonystan
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):

Not to mention that the new cabin is also available on a significant number of older B777-200s.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
I personally think this is overrated when it comes to BA. They just purchased BMI and netted 42 slots and they have already gained a couple by upgrading 3 747/777 slots to LAX & HKG to two A380s. The ME3 are taking a lot of connecting traffic and their growth isn't that strong. They have even mentioned a couple of times that their 747s are too big for some of the routes that they operate them on and will be trading down.

This is at odds with BA's published results, 2013 saw 3.9% growth over 2012 with growth steadily increasing over the year and January 2014 saw 7% growth over the same month in 2013. This will be difficult to maintain unless the average aircraft size continues to grow.
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:01 pm

I think there is little dispute that from a technical standpoint the A380 is performing very well. The question seems to be, can the airlines fill them. The ME3 seem to be able to; others seem to have more trouble. AF and LH in particular seem to be less than enthusiastic about them. BA, with slot-restricted LHR to deal with, should be able to make good use of some of them, and that seems to be the case. How many of their 747 fleet will be replaced by A380's and how many by something smaller remains to be seen. But it is clear that if they are happy with the performance of the planes. And I have also not heard of any problems with their 787's, unlike some other operators whose problems have proved fertile soil for a-net posts. And the stories about the 787's are pretty consistent; if they can get in the air, they perform superbly.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6674
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
This is at odds with BA's published results, 2013 saw 3.9% growth over 2012 with growth steadily increasing over the year

2012 was not a great year (flat growth if I remember correctly?) because of the movement to not travel during the olympics. Regardless, they can upgrade their fleet and capacity by their swapping A380s for 747s, A350s for 77Es and 787s for 767s. There is plenty of capacity growth there. I think they will order the 777x as well to replace some of the 747s.

Not to mention I don't think those BMI slots will stay narrow body aircraft. Surely some of those slots will be utilized differently otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much as they did.

tortugamon
 
Johnwaynebobbet
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:25 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:25 pm

The A380's cargo capacity is not ideal from the business point of view.
 
bluesky73
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:15 pm

Certainly hope BA don't cancel any of the A380s, I was hoping the 7 options may join the fleet one day too.
The only reason I can see A380s being cancelled is if the 777X is ordered.

Shame BA can't speed up LH fleet renewal.
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2330
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
This will be difficult to maintain unless the average aircraft size continues to grow.

Your reasoning is flawed. Growth does not mean aircraft size must grow also.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:23 pm

Belly cargo is not BA's strongest business strategy
LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:05 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
It's an a.net rumor from, as I understand it, a BA employee with connection to Fleet Planning.

For every subscriber to a.net who in the real world is in such a position of responsibility in aviation, there will always be another dozen who use the anonymity of such forums to create and build personas which they would like people to believe places them in similar positions of responsibility and which grants them the voice of unofficial "authority."

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 2473
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:12 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 19):
I think there is little dispute that from a technical standpoint the A380 is performing very well. The question seems to be, can the airlines fill them. The ME3 seem to be able

well only one of the ME3 has it in service so let's hold off judgement on that for now.
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:18 am

BA was very upbeat about the performance of the A380 this morning.

One interesting reference point was LHR-LAX. In the summer 2014 season, BA can replace 3 mid-J 747s with two A380s, resulting in a near similar number of seats, but a near 20% reduction in per seat cost.

Also don't forget that whilst BA may have more slots at Heathrow, the business market demands peak arrival slots in the morning which are scarce. The morning arrival slots are very valuable, and using the A380 to combine frequencies helps release a peak arrival slot.
 
Ab345
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:44 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:47 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 27):
One interesting reference point was LHR-LAX. In the summer 2014 season, BA can replace 3 mid-J 747s with two A380s, resulting in a near similar number of seats, but a near 20% reduction in per seat cost.

Also don't forget that whilst BA may have more slots at Heathrow, the business market demands peak arrival slots in the morning which are scarce. The morning arrival slots are very valuable, and using the A380 to combine frequencies helps release a peak arrival slot.

This is exactly the reason the A380 was built for and its' main purpose in my idea. Hub to hub operations for major carriers. It doesn't suit everyone (and why should it?) and when operated in a "clever" configuration can be a cash cow.

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 24):

Belly cargo may come up as a more important deciding factor in the future since British Airways World Cargo will cease in April 2014 and the thee 748Fs will be returned to Atlas Air I think, but you cannot ask everything from one frame. Having 550 people and cargo and range etc is a bit of a wish list (for now  ) Didn't they form an agreement with QR Cargo ?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):

I remember reading that post. The poster was either VERY sure of his info or just another basher. Both are plausible 
 
laca773
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:58 am

It's nice to hear these new fleet additions are working out for BA.
It's definitely sensible for BA to operate A380s on high demand routes with the tight slot restrictions at LHR. Though many routes BA flies longhaul are high demand, not all of them can utilize the A380. Example is JFK. Those who fly this route frequently want the convenience of multiple nonstops to choose from, hence why we see BA/AA operate a near shuttle like scheduled in the evenings eastbound, and earlier in the day flying west.
Perhaps we'll see SFO upgauged to a A380 and a 77W versus 2x 744.
Is the demand there for BA to upgauge ORD to a A380 and operate their second flight with a 77E ? I'm sure they have looked @ ORD, and consider the amount of seats AA offers too, consequently, we haven't seen the A380 on the future timetables as of yet.
Will MIA see the A380?
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:27 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 23):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
This will be difficult to maintain unless the average aircraft size continues to grow.

Your reasoning is flawed. Growth does not mean aircraft size must grow also.

In the operating circumstance of BA flying from LHR it does. They either have to purchase slots from their competitors or larger aircraft. The latter being far easier than the former.

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 28):
since British Airways World Cargo will cease in April 2014

British AIrways World Cargo will not cease in April 2014, their use of 3 x 747-8F from STN will cease, the vast majority of the operation will continue as normal.
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:06 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 26):
well only one of the ME3 has it in service so let's hold off judgement on that for now.

They are flying about 50 of them though .....  
Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 27):
One interesting reference point was LHR-LAX. In the summer 2014 season, BA can replace 3 mid-J 747s with two A380s, resulting in a near similar number of seats, but a near 20% reduction in per seat cost.

Also don't forget that whilst BA may have more slots at Heathrow, the business market demands peak arrival slots in the morning which are scarce. The morning arrival slots are very valuable, and using the A380 to combine frequencies helps release a peak arrival slot.

A good description of how the frequency vs capacity argument isn't as simple as some make it out to be

Quoting laca773 (Reply 29):
Though many routes BA flies longhaul are high demand, not all of them can utilize the A380. Example is JFK. Those who fly this route frequently want the convenience of multiple nonstops to choose from, hence why we see BA/AA operate a near shuttle like scheduled in the evenings eastbound, and earlier in the day flying west

I'm not sure this is the best example in truth.
BA fly what? 7 flights a day to JFK?
As you say, the demand is focussed at particular times.
An A380 can easily fill a role supplying capacity to satisfy a peak time demand without disturbing the other flights - they might even get trimmed down (e.g from 777 to 787) resulting in no overall capacity increase, but a better fit with the demand peaks.
The dynamic is more complex than just the number of flights per day, as you point out

Rgds
 
StTim
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:35 am

Aw come on - we arm chair CEO's only do simplistic  
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:38 am

I think eventually BA will need more than 12+5 A380s to replace its B 747-400s. Perhaps up to 25-30 A380s eventually
 
User avatar
jambrain
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:52 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:49 am

[quote=astuteman,reply=31]
role supplying capacity to satisfy a peak time demand without disturbing the other flights
]/quote]

A fact very often ignored, if you have a long haul route where alignce partners have over 1000 seats per day then the demand is not even through the day, the yield on those prime time seats will be significantly higher and hence a flexible set of capacity with 300, 350, 400 and 550 seaters will allow capacity to be effectively optimised and prime time slots minimised. If another airline went for a one size fits all 250 seater fleet with a higher CASM it will be dominated.

I predict in 14 years another doubling in long haul miles flown, 99 % of it to or from mega hubs, and the world will look very different, the average passenger count per long haul flight will be 30% higher, the 350 seater will be the work horse.
Jambrain
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 33):

That assumes they're going to replace them 1 for 1. Which they won't.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 868
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:32 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 27):
For every subscriber to a.net who in the real world is in such a position of responsibility in aviation, there will always be another dozen who use the anonymity of such forums to create and build personas which they would like people to believe places them in similar positions of responsibility and which grants them the voice of unofficial "authority.

I have also heard this 'rumour' from an A380 crew member so it isn't just this source, although it could be the same talk doing the rounds.


Contrary to some on this list I didn't get the impression that Walsh was overly effusive with his comments. If he had said 'these are an excellent addition to the fleet' or 'they are a major contribution to our profits' I might be more impressed than with what he actually said, a matter of fact 'they are operating as expected or slightly better', in a dual reference with the B787. And it would be rather surprising if there wasn't a 'significant reduction of seat costs” with the A380 compared with its Boeing 747-400s'
 
jumpjet
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:11 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:33 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 33):
I think eventually BA will need more than 12+5 A380s to replace its B 747-400s. Perhaps up to 25-30 A380s eventually

I agree. If you look at the BA route network, there are surely so many that could support an A380 service. So how many 747-400s do BA have? If traffic grows as many of us believe it's going to do as the world comes out of recession, wouldn't an increase in available seats by replacing these 747-400s with A380s make sense?

It seems to be working for Emirates doesn't it?
 
art
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:57 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 27):
One interesting reference point was LHR-LAX. In the summer 2014 season, BA can replace 3 mid-J 747s with two A380s, resulting in a near similar number of seats, but a near 20% reduction in per seat cost.Also don't forget that whilst BA may have more slots at Heathrow, the business market demands peak arrival slots in the morning which are scarce. The morning arrival slots are very valuable, and using the A380 to combine frequencies helps release a peak arrival slot.

  

Quoting jambrain (Reply 34):
a flexible set of capacity with 300, 350, 400 and 550 seaters will allow capacity to be effectively optimised and prime time slots minimised. If another airline went for a one size fits all 250 seater fleet with a higher CASM it will be dominated.

I predict in 14 years another doubling in long haul miles flown, 99 % of it to or from mega hubs, and the world will look very different, the average passenger count per long haul flight will be 30% higher, the 350 seater will be the work horse.

For pax numbers to increase at a faster rate than extra slots extra become available the number of seats per flight has to increase. That is self evident.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2035
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:58 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
January 2014 saw 7% growth

Be careful with your statistics.

The 7% growth results from the 'No-Snow' British winter.

January 2014 LHR operations were not as badly affected by the weather as operations were in January 2013. You see this 'growth' impact at most UK & European airports/airlines this month and is only for a small part related to a change in BA capacity.

A similar impact is seen in leap-year Februarys, when airlines see an additional day of operations.
 
User avatar
SKAirbus
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:13 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 39):
January 2014 LHR operations were not as badly affected by the weather as operations were in January 2013. You see this 'growth' impact at most UK & European airports/airlines this month and is only for a small part related to a change in BA capacity.

We may have had no snow this winter but we sure as hell have had a lot of bad weather... Near-hurricane force winds on several occasions necessitating mass diversions and cancellations at major airports. When the quarterly results are issued, you may see that reflected.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 36):

To be honest, I don't expect Willie Walsh to be too enthusiastic in public. When you have a choice of only two suppliers for new long-haul aircraft you don't want to give too much away.
 
Ab345
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:44 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:39 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 30):
British AIrways World Cargo will not cease in April 2014, their use of 3 x 747-8F from STN will cease, the vast majority of the operation will continue as normal.

The company will of course still exist. I just meant it will stop using its' own frames. The three B748Fs will be returned to Atlas Air I think.

[Edited 2014-03-01 03:42:41]
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:05 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 39):
The 7% growth results from the 'No-Snow' British winter.

as opposed to the "No Ground" winter we've had this year?  

Rgds
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6691
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:46 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 20):
Surely some of those slots will be utilized differently otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much as they did.

Well one can also keep them away from a competitor, that's a cost reason also.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 41):
When you have a choice of only two suppliers for new long-haul aircraft you don't want to give too much away.

So that get's you what, an additional 2% discount, with the wide diversity of a/c operators today not sure this holds any sway, the number of a/c in use by "blue chippers" pales in comparison to the "man in the street" operator.
The A380 is slightly different as it has no competitor and since Airbus knows that the point is moot I would think.

Quoting art (Reply 38):
For pax numbers to increase at a faster rate than extra slots extra become available the number of seats per flight has to increase. That is self evident.

All depends on whether the airport wants to lower the value / importance of its slots by making more available and whether the airline wants to have increase volume of pax versus maintaining the volume as demand rises and increasing yields.
BA is traditionally a premium heavy airline, the GFC knocked it back a bit but I don't think it increased the value of economy class in their minds, until I see different, I'm on the side of increased yields by higher fares.
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 33):
I think eventually BA will need more than 12+5 A380s to replace its B 747-400s. Perhaps up to 25-30 A380s eventually
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 35):
That assumes they're going to replace them 1 for 1. Which they won't.

  
JAL who had a route structure similar to BAB (and more 747's) seems to be doing quiet well without any quads, ANA will soon have none, UAL has cut their fleet in almost half and DAL will hold on to theirs until the end -- none of these airlines appear to have any interest in replacing the 747 fleets they have/had with a four engine airplane.
 
art
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 44):
Quoting art (Reply 38):For pax numbers to increase at a faster rate than extra slots extra become available the number of seats per flight has to increase. That is self evident.

All depends on whether the airport wants to lower the value / importance of its slots by making more available and whether the airline wants to have increase volume of pax versus maintaining the volume as demand rises and increasing yields.
BA is traditionally a premium heavy airline, the GFC knocked it back a bit but I don't think it increased the value of economy class in their minds, until I see different, I'm on the side of increased yields by higher fares.

Some airports will not be able to increase the number of slots available. I know that LHR is not by any means typical today but this extract illustrates my point:

Quote:
Traffic at Heathrow reached 72.3 million, an increase of 3.4% on 2012, Aircraft movements totalled 469,552 for the year at Heathrow, which was down 0.4% on 2012.
Quote:
- Taking account the dip in demand from the Olympic Games, underlying growth is estimated at 2.3%
- Seats per aircraft increased 2.8% on 2012 and the average load factor was 76.4%, up 1 percentage point. Passengers per aircraft rose 3.7% to 154.8.
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/?p=19320

I note that seats per aircraft, load factors and pax per aircraft increased while aircraft movements did not.

I take your point that BA and other airlines are in business to maximise profits and the lack of slots may provide the opportunity of raising prices to and from LHR.
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:21 pm

A few more details from Willie Walsh comments:

- BA has replaced three daily Boeing 747-400 flights from London-Heathrow to Los Angeles with two A380 services. On the Hong Kong route, two 747s have been taken out and were substituted by one Boeing 777 and one A380.

[Although the LAX change was mentioned earlier in this thread, it's worth noting that BA claims that the changes free up a valuable slot at Heathrow, which were always the Airbus selling point for the A380]

- BA operates its A380s at 17.7% lower total costs per seat than the 747-400. If only fuel is taken into account, the difference is 18.4%. BA A380s offer 61% more capacity than its 747-400s (469 seats vs. an average of 317 on the 747s), but the trip cost is only 22% higher.

- The BA change from 747s to A380s also has an effect on the premium/non-premium mix. On the Los Angeles route, the swap leaves the airline with 5% more premium capacity even though it is operating one flight less. Non-premium capacity is down 7%. In total, the move from three 747s to two A380s reduces overall capacity on the Los Angeles route by 1% and the total daily trip costs by 19%.

- BA currently has a fleet of four with eight more on order. According to Walsh, the introduction of the A380 and the 787 has gone better than expected from a reliability standpoint. BA has said that in spite of the good operational and financial record of the A380 fleet, it does not plan to order more.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3365
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:24 pm

Quoting art (Reply 38):
For pax numbers to increase at a faster rate than extra slots extra become available the number of seats per flight has to increase. That is self evident.

And BA has already announced that the A320 fleets will have a seat increase of 6pc with conversions starting this summer. All the old converter seats will be gone, replaced by the new lightweight seats as fitted to this years A320 deliveries
 
User avatar
sassiciai
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm

RE: BA Likes A380 (and 787)

Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 45):
none of these airlines appear to have any interest in replacing the 747 fleets they have/had with a four engine airplane

I have owned cars since I could drive, but I never could understand what went on under the bonnet! If it had 2 or 4 or 6 valves, what did I know (or care). I compared my car's performance with others, using the same limited criteria.

If a new 4-engined A340-series flew the pants off anything else in fuel consumption terms, is it really important that this aircraft has 4 engines? Do the pax care? The airline bean counters care? As an amateur, I wonder about 2 stressed-out mega-engines getting a 777/350 off the ground, while it would seem to be so much more easier for 4 less stressed engines, and offer a better safety regime

I am always happier over water in 4 engines rather than 2. When the then-CEO of RR was asked why he insisted on flying 4-engined aircraft TATL, he replied "because there are no 5-engined planes available".