SA7700
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787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:49 pm

The previous thread became quite long and was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion on this topic.

Part 26 can be found here:

787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 26 (by SA7700 Jan 31 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Enjoy the forums!

SA7700
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:06 am

Well the weather got friendly awhile ago but it looks like the airplane wasn't (KEN ZA655 (157)) which appears to be the rule not the exception these days, unfortunately.
 
PHX787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:58 am

What are the totals for March so far?
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United787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:19 am

As always, thank you to All Things 787 (NYC777) and others for the information that is summarized here.

DELIVERED TO DATE: 122 Aircraft to 17 Airlines & 3 VIPs

DELIVERIES PRIOR TO FEBRUARY
NH-24; JL-13; AI-12; QR-9; UA–9; CZ-8; HU-6; ET-5; LO-5; LA-5; BY-4; BA-4; AM-3; DY-3; JQ-3; BI-2; VIP-2; TB-1

FEBRUARY & MARCH DELIVERIES TO DATE
L/N 149 – HZ-MF7 – 2/4/2014 – VIP #3 - Saudi Ministry of Finance (BBJ)
L/N 147 - JA827A – 2/5/2014 - NH #25
L/N 148 - JA825A – 2/5/2014 - NH #26
L/N 140 - JA828A – 2/21/2014 - NH #27

ON THE FLIGHTLINE - AIRCRAFT THAT HAVE COMPLETED MAJOR ASSEMBLY & CHANGE INCORPORATION*
L/N 25 - VT-ANA – ZA230 - AI #13
L/N 152 – JA831J – ZA188 - JL #14
L/N 129 - A7-BCH – ZA469 - QR #10 (Charleston)
L/N 153 – EI-LND – ZA578 - DY #4 (ILFC)
L/N 151 - B-2738 – ZA436 - HU #7
L/N 138 - A7-BCI – ZA470 - QR #11 (Charleston)
L/N 155 – N966AM – ZA564 - AM #4 (ILFC)
L/N 156 – V8-DLC – ZA447 – BI #3
L/N 159 – JA835J – ZA189 - JL #15
L/N 145 - N26910 – ZA294 - UA #10 (Charleston)
L/N 144 - A7-BCJ – ZA471 - QR #12 (Charleston)
L/N 150 - A7-BCM – ZA472 - QR #13 (Charleston)
L/N 157 – 5Y-KZA – ZA655 – KQ #1 Awaiting first flight
L/N 161 - SP-LRF – ZA275 – LO #6 Awaiting first flight
L/N 160 – C-GHPQ – ZA610 – AC #1 Awaiting first flight
L/N 28 - VT-ANC – ZA232 - AI #14 Awaiting first flight
L/N 162 – VH-VKE – ZA218 - JQ #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 163 – N967AM – ZA565 - AM #5 (ILFC) Awaiting first flight
L/N 165 – EI-LNE – ZA651 - DY #5 Awaiting first flight
L/N 166 – V8-DLD – ZA448 – BI #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 154 - B-2740 – ZA388 - CZ #9 Awaiting first flight (Charleston)
L/N 158 - VT-ANP – ZA244 - AI #15 Awaiting first flight (Charleston)

*Not including the delivered aircraft and test aircraft (ZA001-006 & ZB001-002, 021 & 197)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:42 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
What are the totals for March so far?

Zip.
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EK413
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:27 am

The first B787-8 for Kenya Airways 5Y-KZA is ready  http://imageshack.com/a/img706/6323/6nu0.png
http://paineairport.com/kpae10178.htm

I love those red engine cowlings 

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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:55 pm

Boeing moved another 787 out of 40-24 last night. UA's first 787-9 is loading today.
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:37 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
I love those red engine cowlings.  

I wonder if they're taking a fuel-burn hit from (a presumed) lack of laminar flow by not going with the "stock" colors.
 
N126DL
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:34 pm

I saw ZA249 returning from somewhere on Saturday to the flight line in CHS, painted in the UA livery. Couldn't find it this far in the future on Flight Aware, though
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Aircellist
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:47 pm

When should AC's LN160 have its first flight?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
dbo861
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:56 pm

Both January and February were slow months for deliveries. Why is this?
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 10):
Both January and February were slow months for deliveries. Why is this?

Off the top of my head...

Poor weather in Everett may have affected B and C flights.

QR is not pleased with the state of the birds they're getting from CHS so they seem to be requiring more "clean up" work before delivery.

I believe AI may still be working on funding some of their deliveries.

Major assemblies arriving from CHS need more travel work, which slows completion rates.

Coming off the holiday shutdown at the factory.

New customers (like AC and KQ) are getting their first airframe, so that probably takes a bit longer to prepare.

Boeing has had to use long-distance paint hangars for some planes, so that adds to the cycle time.
 
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rotating14
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:16 pm

Does anyone know the - 9 rate of production and are they all coming from Everett or are some coming from CHS?
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 12):
Does anyone know the - 9 rate of production and are they all coming from Everett or are some coming from CHS?

All -9s are coming from Everett for the moment.
 
Piedmont727
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:52 pm

Im curious on average how long does it take for a 787 to be built?
 
7673mech
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:37 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Off the top of my head...

There was also a bit of a slow down when the original three -9's rolled down the line.
 
tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 14):
Im curious on average how long does it take for a 787 to be built?

Roughly between 34 and 40 days in Everett.

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

tortugamon
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:49 pm

As of today, Boeing completed 45% of the 787-9 flight test campaign.

http://airinsight.com/2014/03/04/flight-test-program-update/
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tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 17):
As of today, Boeing completed 45% of the 787-9 flight test campaign.

1,500 flight hours planned. I don't think we knew that up to now. Good to know.

tortugamon
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:41 pm

ZB002 is out over the Pacific doing 16 hours' worth of circles at varying altitude.      

Seems like for a max endurance flight you'd at least want to fly somewhere fun!   
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:25 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):
16 hours' worth of circles

...or, as it turned out, 5 hours' worth of circles. Not quite as boring.
 
Rocker
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:31 am

Anyone know when AC is getting their first 787, and, when tickets might be available for early domestic runs?
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:18 pm

Looks like ZA564 is up for a C-1 I think:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE564
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 22):
Looks like ZA564 is up for a C-1 I think:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE564

That would be nice, but I think because of the altitude (FL350) and the routing (a little long for a C-1 that's not ANA, JAL, or QTR), it's probably an engineering flight of some sort.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:41 pm

Boeing 470 departing 28L on its way back to CHS.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Shemley

 
travelhound
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:12 am

Using All Things 787 data, from the 3rd Of February to the 3rd of March we have 8 frames being loaded into the FAL and 7 frames leaving the FAL.

I'd suggest Boeing are not quite up to the 10 frames per month rate.

Things will become more clear over this month.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 25):
I'd suggest Boeing are not quite up to the 10 frames per month rate.

NYC777's post in his blog should give insight into the rate of production.

tortugamon
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:27 am

First NZ 787-9 (LN169) was pushed out of the final assembly line.

http://paineairport.com/kpae10186.htm

The aircraft is now inside the EMC.

[Edited 2014-03-06 01:12:16]
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:59 pm

ZA189 on a B-2/Engineering flight today:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE189
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dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting travelhound (Reply 25):
Using All Things 787 data, from the 3rd Of February to the 3rd of March we have 8 frames being loaded into the FAL and 7 frames leaving the FAL.

We don't know when the spreadsheet was last updated, so I'm not sure you can say that. From 29 Jan to 25 Feb 10 frames were loaded. Unless something has changed in the last week and a half, that does seem like 10/month to me.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 29):
We don't know when the spreadsheet was last updated, so I'm not sure you can say that. From 29 Jan to 25 Feb 10 frames were loaded. Unless something has changed in the last week and a half, that does seem like 10/month to me.

I update these spreadsheets as the information comes in. That's on a daily basis.
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:59 pm

ZA655 will be on its B-2 tonight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE655
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dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 30):
I update these spreadsheets as the information comes in. That's on a daily basis.

How frequently does the loading date information come in? And does it come in consistently between the two sites? I see that there are now 2 more frames noted as loaded in the spreadsheet compared to when I wrote that.

Seems like the best way to get an idea of what the rate is would be to do a moving average rather than picking an arbitrary start day. My example above gave 10 frames, if we do it from the 6th of March backwards you get 9 based on the current info, Travelhound had 8 from a slightly different starting date.
 
tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:02 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
First NZ 787-9 (LN169) was pushed out of the final assembly line.

It looks like it is in pretty bad shape. The wing body fairings aren't installed and the leading edge looks like it still needs work.

tortugamon
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:29 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 33):
It looks like it is in pretty bad shape. The wing body fairings aren't installed and the leading edge looks like it still needs work.

I noticed the same, I guess it will spend quite some time in the EMC.
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 32):
How frequently does the loading date information come in? And does it come in consistently between the two sites? I see that there are now 2 more frames noted as loaded in the spreadsheet compared to when I wrote that.

Seems like the best way to get an idea of what the rate is would be to do a moving average rather than picking an arbitrary start day. My example above gave 10 frames, if we do it from the 6th of March backwards you get 9 based on the current info, Travelhound had 8 from a slightly different starting date.

I don't get the info at regular intervals. I post it as I get it. The load dates are accurate though. They're now starting to fall into somewhat of a pattern but the disruptions caused by the issues in SC have disrupted that pattern.
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kanban
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 33):
It looks like it is in pretty bad shape.

Since we don't know why the faring(s) is missing or anything else about the post roll out work, I would say qualifying it as 'in bad shape' is a stretch.. incomplete yes, but possibly intentionally so. The Flight Test program may have found an issue that needs modification.. or a supplier had a production problem, not unheard of.

Of course I may be a little gun shy after all the rancor stirred up with the -8s some legitimate and much of it know-it-alls forecasting doom.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 36):
The Flight Test program may have found an issue that needs modification.. or a supplier had a production problem, not unheard of.

I don't think that's the case. The mid-body section arrived incompletely from CHS and will be worked on in the EMC. The Seattle Times posted an article about it.
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:24 pm

The WSJ reports that Boeing will have to inspect 42 787 jets for wing cracks (LN151-193). Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has changed its manufacturing process and it may cause cracks in the wings.

Google "Boeing to Inspect Wings of Undelivered Dreamliners for Cracks" to read the article.
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tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 36):
The Flight Test program may have found an issue that needs modification.. or a supplier had a production problem, not unheard of.

Well you may be on to something there. This is not good news:

Quote:
Boeing Co. revealed Friday that a manufacturing problem had caused hairline cracks in the wings on some of its 787 Dreamliner jets, requiring inspections on 42 aircraft and delaying the delivery of some to airlines.

Wing-maker Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. informed Boeing that a change in its manufacturing process may cause the cracks in the wings it produces for yet-to-be-delivered jets, according to a spokesman for the U.S....


google "Boeing to Inspect Wings of Undelivered Dreamliners for Cracks" for article

tortugamon
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:30 pm

Overtightened fastener coupled with a missing filler. Oops.

No wonder deliveries have suddenly ground to a halt right at LN 150.
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 40):
Overtightened fastener coupled with a missing filler. Oops.

Sounds like they're missing shims ("fillers") between the skins and the shear ties. The fastener would continue to be tightened until the gap closed, pulling up the shear tie flange. This would in turn cause the radius of the composite shear ties to open up, causing high interlaminar tension stress in the radius. Composites are particularly weak in interlaminar tension.

Also sounds like the "change to the manufacturing process" affected a large area given the inspection time.
 
tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:25 am

Sounds like it is a relatively easy aluminum component fix and not a cfrp issue which I would assume is more complicated.

tortugamon
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):

Sounds like it is a relatively easy aluminum component fix and not a cfrp issue which I would assume is more complicated.

It's hard to decide who is a less reliable source - a guy on Twitter who says it's aluminium or a journalist who says it's composite. But if it is just a shear tie (or ties), a replacing a composite shear tie would be no more difficult than replacing an aluminium one.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:44 am

Boeing 787 shear ties are made of aluminium. Boeing had an issue with them on Sections 47 and 48 (aft fuselage) back in 2010 where thermal fatigue loading could cause them to pull away from the CFRP. The fix was to increase the thickness of the ties.
 
tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:40 am

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 43):
It's hard to decide who is a less reliable source - a guy on Twitter who says it's aluminium or a journalist who says it's composite.

In this case it is a guy on twitter and a journalist so you can take it or leave it. Personally, I think Gleen Farley is relatively reliable.

Quote:
Learning that hairline cracks in 787 wings are not in the composite structure, but in aluminum piece that appears easy to replace.
http://twitter.com/GlennFarley/status/442074347822268417

tortugamon
 
7673mech
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:06 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 40):
No wonder deliveries have suddenly ground to a halt right at LN 150.

I was wondering when this would be made public.
I heard about it on my last trip to PAE ( a couple of weeks ago) but couldn't say anything because my source swore me to
secrecy.
This is exactly why there were missed deliveries in February.
Boeing says that it will recover by years end.
The boys and girls in Everett will be busy this year - between the BSC clean up and the wing repairs - a lot of work for sure.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:34 pm

Looks like QTR ZA472 (150) is flying to PAE this afternoon from paint in PDX. It's the first one with the wing issue which I guess they want to fix at PAE not CHS.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE472
 
n471wn
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 47):
Looks like QTR ZA472 (150) is flying to PAE this afternoon from paint in PDX. It's the first one with the wing issue which I guess they want to fix at PAE not CHS.

I thought the wing issues started with 151......
 
PHX787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 27

Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:36 pm

So all the news outlets are saying that deliveries are delayed -.-

I can't really have decent access to airliners on my phone and I'm traveling around the US currently. Can someone give me a brief set of numbers outlining how much of the program is delayed right now?
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