LAXintl
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Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:43 am

Following last weeks announcement of large loss and negative outlook for 2014, the carrier has placed 18 frames for immediate sale.

4 x A340-500
4 x A300-600
8 x 737-400
2 x ATR-72

Deliveries available between Q2 and Q3.


Some might remember, TG tried to sell its A345's last year and did enter into and agreement with a Saudi VIP operator to only cancel the deal at the last minute due to complaints that the agreed price was below the debt on the aircraft which would have left TG taking a loss on the sale.

Lets see how they do this time. Maybe PeoplExpress can consider the 734's.. lol

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Stitch
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:46 am

Well China Eastern was able to sell their 7 A300-600Rs back to Airbus in exchange for buying 70 A320-200neos so we know the exchange rate is ten A320-200neos per A300-600R.  

MU were also able to offload their five A340-600s to Boeing for 20 777-300ERs, so maybe if TG was willing to buy 16 777-200LRs or 777-8s, Boeing would take their four A340-500s.   ;

[Edited 2014-03-03 16:49:18]
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:12 am

Which of their 6 A346s are listed? Assume TNA-TND leaving TNE and TNF active with TG?
 
infinit
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:24 am

I really hope TG is able to get their affairs in order and the inapt political cronies won't interfere with the running of the airline.
 
super80
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:19 am

TG should sell the A300s! J/k
 
speedbird128
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 2):
Which of their 6 A346s are listed?

Of their airbus fleet, they have their A306's, and A345's up for sale. It looks like they will hang on to their A346's...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
axelesgg
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:54 am

Iran, they'll buy them.
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EK413
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:14 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 2):
Which of their 6 A346s are listed? Assume TNA-TND leaving TNE and TNF active with TG?

None, TG is selling the 4 x A345...  

Sad the A345 was never a success for Airbus, but without a doubt the A350 will be a successful aircraft.

EK413
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almehairiauh
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:00 pm

Will the 2 ATR-72 aircrafts operates for Biman Bangladesh ?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well China Eastern was able to sell their 7 A300-600Rs back to Airbus in exchange for buying 70 A320-200neos so we know the exchange rate is ten A320-200neos per A300-600R.

And Airbus bought 5 A340-500 aircraft back from SQ in exchange for 70 A350s, so they know what do to   
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na
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
Sad the A345 was never a success for Airbus, but without a doubt the A350 will be a successful aircraft.

Yes, good for Airbus, but it remains sad that the unsuccessful A345 is a prettier plane than the inevitable bestseller A350.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:13 pm

TG is going to have a hard time finding customer for these frames.

The A300s might find takers for cargo conversion. The 737-400 with small or starting airlines or in less developed countries.
I'm not optimistic about the A345.

Ironically, the ATRs might well be the most desirable and easiest to shift in there... Depending on the hours and cycles.

In any case, this is not what's going to save them.
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na
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
4 x A340-500
4 x A300-600
8 x 737-400
2 x ATR-72

So they want to sell the types almost every other airline would like to get rid of as well.

-A340-500. With SQs also for sale and some being scrapped already they´ll need a lot of patience until someone with a small purse will come along to buy these thirsty Rolls-Royces. They would make great VIP planes, maybe to replace SPs from the 1970s, but this type of plane is bought one by one.
-The A300s are rotting away since years, why didnt they sell them 5 years ago, what sense does it make to offer them now when they are worth half of what they were when being phased out?
-737-400? The market is being flooded by them at the moment. If they are older than 20 years the scrappers will be the best clients for them.
-ATR-72, ok these will have the best chance.
 
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MaxiAir
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
-ATR-72, ok these will have the best chance.

I'm not that sure about this, these are propably the two frames leased to NOK an they are 24 years, so they won't have a good chance either! (HS-TRA & TRB)
Flown on - 306, 318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 359, 388, 712, 733, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 748, 752, 753, 772, 77L, 77W, MD11, CR7, CR9, E35, E45, E90, E95, AR1, AR8, DHT, DH1, DH4,

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EddieDude
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:15 pm

QF 734 fleet has been completely disposed of? I wonder if TG will have "competition" selling the 734s if QF is still in the process of selling theirs.

Quoting na (Reply 12):
They would make great VIP planes

Or for a head of state.

Quoting MaxiAir (Reply 13):
they are 24 years, so they won't have a good chance either! (HS-TRA & TRB)

Oh wow, I would have also thought they'd be the most desirable, but at such age, who knows. I was even going to suggest they might make sense for Mexico's VW (Aeromar) but at that age, maybe they should become soda cans.  
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nethkt
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:18 pm

Though the announcement of sale comes after the financial report, I don't think it's a direct result of the poor financial reported.

TG has long planned to sell 4 x 340-500s, those 4 x AB6 aren't the current workhorse HS-TAT/W/X/Y/Z
and the 734s/ATRs are returned from NOK and now at their times.

However, I do think TG will retire the older 6 x 747-400s earlier than planned as they now have too many B777Ws, not to mention 3 more 787s this year.

I predict that LAX will be cut! The LAX's 777-200ER/300ER is back to operate other route.

However, opposed to many gurus' comment regarding A380, the 380 loads on FRA/CDG/NRT/KIX are healthy, way better than those speculations.

Rumor about TK wet-leasing 4 x TG 380s is one, if not many, laughable topic at TG head office!

We will see how it goes.  
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Ronaldo747
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:35 pm

According to ch-aviation TG will also sell both 747-400 converted freighters.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:36 pm

Weren't some of the TG A300's damaged when the airport flooded a couple of years ago? I seem to recall pictures of them standing in water over the tops of their wheels.

The A345 is a gorgeous machine but definitely a niche aircraft. Possible South African would take them at a good price for some long, thin routes but my guess is they will be sold off individually as VVIP aircraft for governments or individuals. Wish I had the cash!

Didn't SQ manage to trade their A345's back to Boeing? Anyone know what happened to them since?
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AWACSooner
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:48 pm

Quoting na (Reply 10):
Yes, good for Airbus, but it remains sad that the unsuccessful A345 is a prettier plane than the inevitable bestseller A350.

Post of the thread! IMO, the 350 looks like it was built with the remnants of lesser aircraft...the proportions don't look right.

Back to the topic at hand...so Thai wants to dump the planes, what routes will they cut to compensate?
 
na
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 16):
According to ch-aviation TG will also sell both 747-400 converted freighters.

Good luck, the market is full of them and they are among the oldest.

They have a number of old A330s and early 777s which wont last very long, so why arent they selling them if they need to raise money by selling old planes?
 
mercure1
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Following last weeks announcement of large loss and negative outlook for 2014, the carrier has placed 18 frames for immediate sale.

May I suggest we start a collection and create A.net airlines. We can acquire a good mix of aircraft.

For our first base, I offer the utilization of PPT  
Quoting nethkt (Reply 15):
However, opposed to many gurus' comment regarding A380, the 380 loads on FRA/CDG/NRT/KIX are healthy, way better than those speculations.

And yet again, full planes done equal profits.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 18):
Back to the topic at hand...so Thai wants to dump the planes, what routes will they cut to compensate?

In thread about their 2013 loss, board member said company would reduce flying capacity 20-30% starting 2nd quarter.
 
bennett123
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:27 pm

iirc, the A300 damaged at BKK in 2011 were HS-TAK and HS-TAL.

I believe they were scrapped in 2013.
 
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
-737-400? The market is being flooded by them at the moment. If they are older than 20 years the scrappers will be the best clients for them.

True, but the ones with airframe life left in them are being snapped up for cargo conversion as fast as the doors can be slapped in them. Lots of 727s being replaced.
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kristiaand
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 16):
According to ch-aviation TG will also sell both 747-400 converted freighters.

Do they still have full freighter aircraft on order or will they abandon the fullfreighter scene ?
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nimool
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:35 pm

I Guess if allowed 306's are going to IRA since they are commonly in service within Iranian airlines.
Im hoping / wishing the some of the 734's and 345's would also go to Iran if they could buy them.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 16):
According to ch-aviation TG will also sell both 747-400 converted freighters.

Here's the story:

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...o-sell-off-its-two-b747-freighters

Quoting kristiaand (Reply 23):
Do they still have full freighter aircraft on order or will they abandon the fullfreighter scene ?

ATDB shows TG does not have any full freighter aircraft on order.
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ist2014
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:01 pm

there is a definite need for all new birds in Iran. RJets, 737,320,330,340,777,787 even A380. All models will be welcomed by Iran but sanctions is a real problem
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting ist2014 (Reply 26):
but sanctions is a real problem

Non-disclosure of nuclear energy vs. weapons programme, human rights abuses, open declaration of aggression toward Israel - are the real problem, the sanctions are a result of them. The Govt. of Iran knows what it needs to do in order to embrace the 21st century.

Re: the A345's. There are a few floating around now and as I see it they'd be perfect for SA who have the hot and high requirement as well as the long-distance one. Personally, I'd love to see NZ take a sub-fleet of them and open routes from AKL to EZE, GRU and MEL-JNB.
come visit the south pacific
 
LAXintl
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:50 pm

Here is an update on specific tails.

A300-600R - c/n - 577, 629, 681, 705 avail immediately.
A340-500 - c/n 624, 628, 698, 775 avail immediately
B737-400 - MSN 24830, 24831, 26612, 26613, TBA on other 4 tails. Avail Q3
ATR-72 - MSN 164, 167 avail Q3

They also just added:

4 x 747-400 - MSN 24993, 25366, 26615, 27093 avail in Q2.

I don't have a listing on the 2 744 freighters yet.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:53 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
None, TG is selling the 4 x A345

My mistake, I misread A300-600 as A340-600  
 
na
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
4 x 747-400 - MSN 24993, 25366, 26615, 27093 avail in Q2.

Two of those were stored in the first half of last year already. Again hard to explain why they are trying to sell them now and not 12 months ago. Were they kept in reserve so far or what?
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting na (Reply 30):
Again hard to explain why they are trying to sell them now and not 12 months ago. Were they kept in reserve so far or what?

Quite possibly held in reserve waiting for an upturn in the tourism/aviation/business sector but the recent political issues and violence will have exacerbated the industry volatility and worsened the overall environment/market. Now they really have to sell, whereas before they just should have.
come visit the south pacific
 
tristan7977
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:35 pm

Delta is what I'm hoping for the A345s or 6s 
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MCOflyer
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:28 am

The 744's are old. I wonder how much life is left in them. Some of the 734's leased from aercap were built in 98. I hope these a/c find new owners but my prediction is some will go to the scrap yard and be coke cans.
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LAXintl
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:56 pm

Hours/cycles on aircraft for sale:


ATR
164 - 23189 / 34684
167 - 23374 / 39801

A300
577 - 53087 / 30212
629 - 51710 / 31151
681 - 47319 / 30897
705 - 46984 / 30564

A345
624 - 30024 / 2768
628 - 29208 / 2513
698 - 27714 / 2435
775 - 21905 / 2042

B734
24830 - 43418 / 39807
24831 - 44092 / 39991
26612 - 42332 / 38943
26613 - 38921 / 36125

B744
24993 - 99189 / 15865
25336 - 96454 / 15229
26615 - 94173 / 14770
27093 - 93791 / 14574

=
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na
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
Hours/cycles on aircraft for sale:

Thanks for posting

According to planespotters and airfleets two of those aging 744s are still active (the ones for sale are the oldest 744s in the fleet). Maybe someone like Air Atlanta will take them to offer them to Garuda and the like for one or a few Hadj-seasons. If a D-check is pending it will mean they´ll have to go for finals though. 93.000 - 99.000 flight hours is a bit below average to retire a 744 but not unsual these days.

The other types are surprisingly low on flight hours. Those ATRs are old indeed but they havent flown too much, just a few hours each day.
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting mcoflyer (Reply 33):
The 744's are old. I wonder how much life is left in them.

Yes, and another post mentioned having six of them left. Why not park some of them and let the A340-600 fill in the gap? I had been hearing that the -600 is more efficient on a seat mile basis than the 747-400, and takes more cargo. Is there another reason they are unloading the Airbus and not the older Boeings?
 
bennett123
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:33 pm

Is it just me, or do the cycles on the ATR, A300 and B737 all look very high.


CF-CPI

AFAIK, the A340-600's are being kept.

It is the A340-500's that are being sold.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 36):
Yes, and another post mentioned having six of them left. Why not park some of them and let the A340-600 fill in the gap? I had been hearing that the -600 is more efficient on a seat mile basis than the 747-400, and takes more cargo. Is there another reason they are unloading the Airbus and not the older Boeings?

The 747s are double the age of the A340s and I expect they have been paid off. And with about 100 more seats, the 747 offers more revenue.

Thai Airways is not the only one, VS will also ditch their A340-600s before the 744s for similar reasons, despite the better payload capabilities of the former.
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LAXintl
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 37):
Is it just me, or do the cycles on the ATR, A300 and B737 all look very high.

They are primarily short-haul domestic birds.
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bennett123
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:38 am

Does anyone know what the maximum number of cycles is on the ATR, A300 and B737 Classic.

MTIA.
 
B-HOP
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:26 pm

I am sure ATR's can find good home and maybe the A300 either to IR or for F converison with start up, as those 734 I have serious doubt they will fly again apart from beer can,as you can get 738 from lessor or Ryan at a cheap rate, beside there are huge risk when 737 MAX arrives its value would dip further. 345, well, it is never a right plane really, I see either a VIP, tanker converison or early beer can.

Kev
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bennett123
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:46 pm

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-240269.html

Airbus LCF:

A300 48,000
A300 B4 40,000
A300 B42 34,000
A300 B46 30,000
A310-200 40,000
A310-300 35,000
A319 48,000
A320 48,000
A321 48,000
A330 40,000
A340 20,000

If these aircraft are A300 B46, then they could be out of cycles.

In that case, it looks like Beercans.
 
atct
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting almehairiauh (Reply 8):
Will the 2 ATR-72 aircrafts operates for Biman Bangladesh ?

I could see Empire picking them up as FedEx feeders.
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jfk777
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:44 pm

The A340's would be good for AR or CO- Viasa. Perhaps SAA if they are cheap enough.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:12 pm

2 x B747-400BCF MSN 24458 & 24459 have been added to the aircraft available for purchase.
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777Jet
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:54 am

So they are selling the 345 that is currently used by the Government too... Will be sad to see Kamphaeng Phet go...
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N14AZ
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:24 am

I thought it was in this thread but it seems it was in a previous thread where someone mentioned that the visual appearance is that in Bangkok there are always a lot of TG-widebodies standing arround.

I can confirm this, whenever I land in Bangkok it looks as if a huge part of TG's fleet has been grounded, similar to how it looks in FRA during Christmas and New Years Eve, when LH grounds a part of their fleet. This is of course just an assessment based on the visual appearance and no statistical analysis but I have the feeling there are more TG-aircrafts in Bangkok than LH-aircrafts in FRA. Wonder if there are any statistics about TG's widebody fleet utilization...

[Edited 2014-03-26 17:54:47]
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I wonder if TG will have "competition" selling the 734s if QF is still in the process of selling theirs.

IIRC QF sold all of there's to some outfit in Miami, maybe for cargo conversion?
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lightsaber
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RE: Thai Airways Puts 18 Aircraft Up For Sale

Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting na (Reply 12):
-ATR-72, ok these will have the best chance.

Even though they are old, if Thai accepts a fair price, they will sell. I agree the others are tough sales and IMHO are unlikely to fetch the debt on the airframes.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Some might remember, TG tried to sell its A345's last year and did enter into and agreement with a Saudi VIP operator to only cancel the deal at the last minute due to complaints that the agreed price was below the debt on the aircraft which would have left TG taking a loss on the sale.

A345 resale values have dropped faster than their 'on the book depreciation.' If they insist on selling for more than the debt, Thai will be stuck with those frames a long time...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):

2 x B747-400BCF MSN 24458 & 24459 have been added to the aircraft available for purchase.

Last I looked, BCF resale values were... poor.


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