SA7700
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:29 am

Due to length part 8 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 9.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700
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na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:33 am

Looking at the photos of suspected debris from MH370 I ask why arent those SAR guys able to make a photo thats better than with a 1999 cellphone?
Can someone please give them a decent 200 $ camera with a tele lens to add to their multi-million $ plane?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:37 am

Quoting na (Reply 1):

Looking at the photos of suspected debris from MH370 I ask why arent those SAR guys able to make a photo thats better than with a 1999 cellphone?
Can someone please give them a decent 200 $ camera with a tele lens to add to their multi-million $ plane?

Won't they have to have to send a ship or helicopter to investigate anyway? I imagine their job is to scan with binoculars and mark one eyeballs and taking pictures is secondary.

Also, even at 1000 feet, you need quite a telephoto lens to make things clear from a moving aircraft.

[Edited 2014-03-10 03:38:06]

[Edited 2014-03-10 03:42:52]

[Edited 2014-03-10 03:49:27]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mila
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:50 am

According to Swedish media now one of the PAX that was traveling on a stolen passport has been identified.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:51 am

This whole thing is mind-boggling. They could find the AF crash site after a couple of days in the middle of a vast Ocean, yet the MH aircraft supposedly went down relatively close to land and nothing can be found.

It feels like the Malaysian government is hiding something...

Nothing can be ruled out... some theories more likely than others. Maybe the false passports are just a coincidence? The passengers were booked onto PEK-Europe flights so why would they attack a plane on the first leg of their journey? Unless whatever they had detonated early?

It is frustrating... and we are not involved parties here... The families, friends and colleagues of all those poor people on the flight must be beyond distraught right now... I cannot imagine how it must feel. They need find the wreckage, just to give them that confirmation.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:53 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
It feels like the Malaysian government is hiding something...

This begs the question why they would want to hide something.

In any case assets from six (?) different countries are searching, and several of these countries are engaged in minor territorial spats with each other (Vietnam, The Philippines and PRC over the Spratly Islands for example). They're not enemies but they're not always the best of friends either. Meaning I don't think they could all hide something.

[Edited 2014-03-10 03:54:38]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:55 am

Thoughts to the family and friends of those aboard MH370.

My theories are in order of likelihood: 1.) Terrorism 2.) Suicide 3.) Shootdown 4.) Mechanical Failure.

As to where she is... well all I can say is that even my workmates who mock my interest in aviation are intrigued and worried about this situation.

A commercial jet does not do this. Ever. In the history of aviation.

You know, sadly, my mum was the first to notify me of this and I saw it on my mobile, didn't say the aircraft type but when I saw the headline for some reason my blood ran cold and I though, oh no, the 777's time is up.

And sure enough after clicking the link there it was. A part of me still hopes it has landed on a remote island and everyone is well.

Please return to us 9M-MRO.
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na
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:56 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Also, even at 1000 feet, you need quite a telephoto lens to make things clear from a moving aircraft.

Thats why I wrote that they need a good camera.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Won't they have to have to send a ship or helicopter to investigate anyway? I imagine their job is to scan with binoculars

In the first place, sure. But if they have detected debris it should be expected that they fly around it a the lowest hight possible (whats that for a decent SAR plane, 50 meters, 30?) and take enough GGOD pictures so no ship is wasted in the wrong location.
 
ah414211
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:57 am

Sounds like the floating object thought to be a life raft was actually a cable reel :


BREAKING [6:24pm]: Floating object spotted in ocean turns out to be cable reel and not life raft.


Also, they're saying the analysis of the oil slick has determined that it ISN'T related to MH370.

Link: http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:57 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):

thank you for your reply. It seems extremely unlikely that they'd lose all comms, therefore- an incredible series of events would be necessary. But then, most accidents are...

does anybody know how busy the sea is towards borneo or the eastern part of Malaysia? How good might the primary radar coverage be there?

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:06:08]

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:07:00]
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:59 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 6):
A commercial jet does not do this. Ever. In the history of aviation.

Several airliners have been lost for quite a while before being found. AF447 to quote a relatively recent example. There are even jet airliners that have never been found, such as Varig flight 967.

I have little doubt we will find out what happened eventually, but it may take a while.

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Won't they have to have to send a ship or helicopter to investigate anyway? I imagine their job is to scan with binoculars

In the first place, sure. But if they have detected debris it should be expected that they fly around it a the lowest hight possible (whats that for a decent SAR plane, 50 meters, 30?) and take enough GGOD pictures so no ship is wasted in the wrong location.

Fair point.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:04:36]
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nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:06 am

I believe it is ICAO standard for all systems used for air traffic services to record & archive their data for a minimum of 30 days. Based on this document I found, it seems that not all countries are always in compliance: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1934/20100...SurveillanceDataLetterOfIntent.pdf

Does anyone know whether it is likely that primary radar being used in the area was not recording?

It seems to me likely that military radar would be more accurate and higher powered, but what do we know about primary radar coverage in the area in general? I imagine the military wouldn't rush to share information with the public.

I think primary radar gives SAR teams the best hope of finding the plane.
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chieft
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:10 am

I think all thoughts and comments are pure speculation. There is not even a wreck, debris etc, to say nothing of FDR and VR.

What is available are some radar data showing that the aircraft disappeared. A loss of engine power would at least make the aircraft gliding, which then would have been seen on radar. An example for such an event was some years ago an A330 from Canada gliding to an alternate airport safely.

What I am wondering about is, why the FDR, and possibly the VR, data are not sent to the maintenance basis live and constantly. Technically it shouldn't be a problem. A loss of a FDR would then not be so dramatic.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:12 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 11):
Does anyone know whether it is likely that primary radar being used in the area was not recording?

As I wrote in the last thread - primary radar usually has a range of less than 60nm, so it would be my guess that the aircraft had left the range of a PSR if there was one on the east coast...

As an ATC I would find it unlikely that the upper airspace used PSR data... It would be almost exclusively SSR. I have worked upper airspace and I never had primary radar there...
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:12 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
Several airliners have been lost for quite a while before being found. AF447 to quote a relatively recent example. There are even jet airliners that have never been found, such as Varig flight 967.I have little doubt we will find out what happened eventually, but it may take a while.

They found bits of 447 within days. No sign of 370 yet and no ACARS or other data to go off. Please tell me what other modern aircraft has ended up in this situation? As for 967, I can';t consider that a modern airliner by any respect. And SAR was not quite what it is today. As some others have put it, we can locate a $200 phone anywhere in the world but not a 250,000,000 airliner.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:12 am

From the previous thread by Windshear:

Quote:
The plane is missing and if the satelite could not detect it crashing, why would it detect it blowing up? The fireball is usually not very big on smaller improvised deviced like a suicide vest, the fire would be instant inside the cabin, but would be out already at hull breach and in flight breakup... This does not rule out terrorism.

The NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) has the capability to detect intercontinental missile launches based on their infrared signature in the upper atmosphere. The NORAD should be able to detect if a plane explodes at a high alitude due to the fireball and the infrared signature it is producing. Due to the atmosphere, it is not possible to detect small explosions at ground level from space using this technology.
 
SCQ83
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:15 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
Nothing can be ruled out... some theories more likely than others. Maybe the false passports are just a coincidence? The passengers were booked onto PEK-Europe flights so why would they attack a plane on the first leg of their journey? Unless whatever they had detonated early?

This has been discussed to extenuation here. With an European passport AND a flight bound to Europe you don't need a pre-arranged visa to transit through PEK. Which means that your passport would have never been checked by Chinese authorities in a consulate (where a fake passport would be easier spotted than in a check-in counter in KUL) before entering China... or a Chinese aircraft.

In the terrorism hypothesis, why wait for your second leg? Going through another airport (additional security, screenings) would increase the chances that you are caught.

Also, if you want to attack Chinese interests... it would make more sense to do it in a KUL-PEK than in a PEK-Europe flight. PEK-Europe would be completely overland (higher probability of emergency landing with a good outcome) and likely a higher percentage of non-Chinese on board in a flight from Malaysia than to Europe. In the KUL flight the overwhelming majority of passengers had Chinese passports or were ethnic Chinese even if holding Western passports.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
There are even jet airliners that have never been found, such as Varig flight 967.

Interesting. Apparently it has been the only major aircraft disaster of which not a single trace has never been found. Still, this was in the middle of the Pacific... not comparable to the Gulf of Thailand.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:17:31]
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 6):
You know, sadly, my mum was the first to notify me of this and I saw it on my mobile, didn't say the aircraft type but when I saw the headline for some reason my blood ran cold and I though, oh no, the 777's time is up.

My blood ran cold when I heard the news and would have done no matter what the aircraft type was. The way this thread is going, is that people seem to think this is far more awful than anything that has happened before because it involves the 777.

Human lives have been lost and it doesn't matter one iota to the families of those involved what the aircraft type was, nor should it matter to us.

The fact of the matter is that a plane went down and we need to know why it happened and how it could have happen. Questions that should answered irrespectively. Yes, it is unlikely it was a mechanical failure but believe it or not the 777 like any other aircraft type is not invincible. No aircraft is.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:19 am

 
flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:20 am

In the last thread, satellite imagery was suggested in order to find wreckage faster.

In the search for Steve Fossett, Amazon's "Mechanical Turk" was employed to do a crowd-based review of recent satellite imagery. In natural disasters, the crowds also help with mapping still usable roads based on very recent imagery.

I wondered about this earlier...

GeoEye's imagery has a resolution of 0.41 meters, which should be enough debris found in AF447. But here, no debris has been found at all...


David
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:21 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 15):
The NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) has the capability to detect intercontinental missile launches based on their infrared signature in the upper atmosphere. The NORAD should be able to detect if a plane explodes at a high alitude due to the fireball and the infrared signature it is producing. Due to the atmosphere, it is not possible to detect small explosions at ground level from space using this technology.

ICBM apogee is roughly 100 times higher than an airliner isn't it? 700 miles or so?
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:21 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 16):

Is connecting luggage scanned again upon connection?

if not, then I'd argue that might in fact make the second leg more plausible than the first. Why bother with a connecting ticket to AMS, then onwards?
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PhilV
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:22 am

Someone posted this link in another Forum:
http://www.tienphong.vn/xa-hoi/truc-...eu-manh-vo-gan-vung-tau-684926.tpo

Is this new?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 12):
What I am wondering about is, why the FDR, and possibly the VR, data are not sent to the maintenance basis live and constantly. Technically it shouldn't be a problem. A loss of a FDR would then not be so dramatic.

This has been covered. The expense for such a system would be huge and the safety benefit would be marginal, if any. Not economically defensible.

Some airlines have ACARS transmissions on a continual basis. It seems MH did not. It is a paid service.

It is also important to note that the job of the DFDR and CVR are not there to help in rescue and recovery. They are there to solve the crash and provide data to prevent future accidents.

Quoting 77west (Reply 14):
As some others have put it, we can locate a $200 phone anywhere in the world but not a 250,000,000 airliner.

The logistical issues are somewhat different as phones have to be rather close to cell towers and they don't move at Mach 0.85.

Even so, most airliners do report position, speed, altitude and heading every second with ADS-B. If such reporting ends for some reason at cruise altitude there's no magical way to extrapolate more than a rough position estimate. The number of variables is quite high.

If you think about it, no lives would have been saved by immediately locating the wreckage of, say, AF447 within a few hours? If this aircraft has crashed in the ocean, immediate location would not have saved anyone either.


If a new technology can potentially save lives, I'm all for it. However easier location of wreckage has a very marginal potential benefit when it comes to saving lives. It could be argued that all you're doing is making planes more expensive and complex for the benefit of speeding up a multi-year investigation by a few days. Maybe. In extremely rare cases.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:26:41]

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:27:04]
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redadeco
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 6):
My theories are in order of likelihood: 1.) Terrorism 2.) Suicide 3.) Shootdown 4.) Mechanical Failure.

Why terrorism as a 1st reason? I personally dismiss this theory. All the speculations on terrorism are centred on Uyghur muslims living in XinJiang province who currently have issues with the central Chinese government; however, why the h**k would they target the flag carrier of a Muslim country with presumably passengers sharing the same faith as them.

I would've considered terrorism as a possible route to explore if this was an Air China flight, for instance.

The fake passport holders are in my opinion mere illegal immigrants/drug mules bound for Europe.
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:23 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 20):
ICBM apogee is roughly 100 times higher than an airliner isn't it? 700 miles or so?

Yes, but my understanding is that the launch is detected shortly after the launch at a significanlyt lower altitude than the apogee. I am not sure if 11 km is enough, though.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:24 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 13):
As I wrote in the last thread - primary radar usually has a range of less than 60nm, so it would be my guess that the aircraft had left the range of a PSR if there was one on the east coast...

The implication is, then, that by turning off ADS-B and transponder, they could effectively disappear and be anywhere in the Gulf, as long as they did not get within 60nm of the coast?

That does not bode too well for the SAR efforts.
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 17):
My blood ran cold when I heard the news and would have done no matter what the aircraft type was. The way this thread is going, is that people seem to think this is far more awful than anything that has happened before because it involves the 777. Human lives have been lost and it doesn't matter one iota to the families of those involved what the aircraft type was, nor should it matter to us. The fact of the matter is that a plane went down and we need to know why it happened and how it could have happen. Questions that should answered irrespectively. Yes, it is unlikely it was a mechanical failure but believe it or not the 777 like any other aircraft type is not invincible. No aircraft is.

I am terribly sorry for the perceived unfeeling behaviour. Of course any accidents is too much, weather a C182 or an A380.

I simply meant that for some reason I knew it was a 777 before I even read it; I just had a really horrible feeling and that's saying something coming from me.

We are so used to accident reports of classic 737's, the odd A320, that a major accident with a big jet is pretty rare and for some reason it really just struck me hard; I have had many, many flights on all variants of 777s and so I consider it a good friend and thus with this incident it really has struck home.

Of course my first reaction to any reported accident is always, Oh God no..." no matter what the plane or airline.

My apologies If I have offended anyone.
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting PhilV (Reply 22):
Is this new?

The sea sawdust is not new. I'm not sure about the small bright objects in the water. If they are not whitecaps...
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:27 am

Quoting michi (Reply 18):

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html

New report of debris somewhere else.

"60km southeast of Vung Tau, a coastal city in Vietnam"

That would be way off the current search area.
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):
Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 13):
As I wrote in the last thread - primary radar usually has a range of less than 60nm, so it would be my guess that the aircraft had left the range of a PSR if there was one on the east coast...

The implication is, then, that by turning off ADS-B and transponder, they could effectively disappear and be anywhere in the Gulf, as long as they did not get within 60nm of the coast?

Primary radar can also be shipborne, and radar sites don't blanket the coast, or are always set right at the shore.
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SCQ83
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 21):
if not, then I'd argue that might in fact make the second leg more plausible than the first. Why bother with a connecting ticket to AMS, then onwards?

A ticket KUL-PEK would require a prearranged Visa in a Chinese consulate for an European passport holder. That would be more certainly more bothering than buying a ticket to AMS. It is not like someone planning to take down a plane is looking for the most affordable fare or missing two legs of the flight, but to take the least suspicious planning.

Anyway, IMO the connecting ticket to AMS and then to Denmark and Germany would likely mean refugees.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:32 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):
The implication is, then, that by turning off ADS-B and transponder, they could effectively disappear and be anywhere in the Gulf, as long as they did not get within 60nm of the coast?

Yes and no. The military have better tracking capabilites than us civvies ever would. But that's another kettle of fish. Maybe they weren't watching that particular part of the sky at that particular moment in time... i don't know.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):
That does not bode too well for the SAR efforts.

No, that makes us SAR blokes have a hard time choosing a spot to search, as is evidenced by the lack of results in the current SAR efforts. They must be tearing their hair out - I know I have before.
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:32 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 23):
The logistical issues are somewhat different as phones have to be rather close to cell towers and they don't move at Mach 0.85.

Even so, most airliners do report position, speed, altitude and heading every second with ADS-B. If such reporting ends for some reason at cruise altitude there's no magical way to extrapolate more than a rough position estimate. The number of variables is quite high.

If you think about it, not lives would have been saved by immediately locating the wreckage of, say, AF447 within a few hours? If this aircraft has crashed in the ocean, immediate location would not have saved anyone either.

Working in IT, I actually do realize this but still think it stupid given our technology today. At this point I am sad to agree that saving lives is not really possible at this point but preventing future accidents could perhaps hold merit.

No matter what anyone says this is by no means a routine accident (Is there such a thing?) This is damn serious if you really stop to think about it.

A triple Seven missing for 3 days with NO sign at all of where it is, over a small sea with shallow water and many fishing boats and other population in the area.

I can't think of any other similar incidents recently.

447 was over 4km of water. Far offshore. Not the same.
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345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:34 am

I think the fact one of the stolen passport holders has been identified but no further details are being released could *possibly* indicate that they require further investigation and *maybe* are not being ruled out yet as a factor in the incident.

Edit: or they could be waiting until family has been notified.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:36:38]
 
gr325
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:34 am

I am not entirely sure if this has been discussed.
I know the odds are very unlikely but would it be possible the aircraft has been hit by a meteor or other space debris?
"You should have gone to specsavers"
 
speedbird128
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30):
Primary radar can also be shipborne, and radar sites don't blanket the coast, or are always set right at the shore.

Sure, I am also familiar with those, but I know of no ATC unit using ship-borne PSR. I was responding entirely to the civilian aspect of the question.

As I wrote in the previous thread, with the advent of phased arrays/AESAs I find it hard to believe nothing was monitoring the skies...
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redadeco
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting gr325 (Reply 35):

I am not entirely sure if this has been discussed.
I know the odds are very unlikely but would it be possible the aircraft has been hit by a meteor or other space debris?

Welcome to the speculation club!
I'd give this a 0.0001% chance and it's already an overestimation.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting gr325 (Reply 35):

I am not entirely sure if this has been discussed.
I know the odds are very unlikely but would it be possible the aircraft has been hit by a meteor or other space debris?

It had been discussed with varying levels of tongue-in-cheek.

"Big sky" and all that, it would certainly be an incredibly improbable event.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:39 am

Quoting redadeco (Reply 24):
Why terrorism as a 1st reason? I personally dismiss this theory. All the speculations on terrorism are centred on Uyghur muslims living in XinJiang province who currently have issues with the central Chinese government; however, why the h**k would they target the flag carrier of a Muslim country with presumably passengers sharing the same faith as them.

777 - 18 Years of pretty much trouble free operation, hence statistics show that airplane failure is low on the list. Pilot error, not likely at FL350 with the AP engaged. Not much reason to disengage AP like AF447 as pretty much perfect weather.

I simply put Terrorism above suicide as there have been very few fully documented cases of flight crew suicide on record.

Terrorism covers a large range from simple hijacking through to full on bombing and planned crashing.

Certainly perhaps the Boeing flight computers went haywire for no reason but again this would be a first right? As in first accident caused by software.
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vfw614
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:39 am

More information that one of the two passengers travelling under false identity has been identified:

http://my.news.yahoo.com/identity-on...-confirmed-says-igp-102952114.html
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 33):
Working in IT, I actually do realize this but still think it stupid given our technology today.

I've worked in IT most of my career and I agree with you but I can't really see an economically reasonable way to get around the issue.

The problem is of course that if you pull the plug on transmissions, as seems to have happened here, whatever whizz-bang comms technology you have becomes rather academic. If at this point your airliner is at cruise altitude and speed, your search radius is gigantic.

You can add extra redundant transmitters and this and that but if you're going to spend money on air safety there are other areas which are more deserving of investment.

Quoting 77west (Reply 33):
No matter what anyone says this is by no means a routine accident (Is there such a thing?) This is damn serious if you really stop to think about it.

A triple Seven missing for 3 days with NO sign at all of where it is, over a small sea with shallow water and many fishing boats and other population in the area.

I can't think of any other similar incidents recently.

Indeed. I was mystified 36 hours ago. Now it's just weird. I suppose we should be happy that some accidents nowadays are hard to solve since it implies that they didn't happen "easily."

Quoting gr325 (Reply 35):
I know the odds are very unlikely but would it be possible the aircraft has been hit by a meteor or other space debris?

As mentioned, certainly possible. However rather improbable.

Quoting 77west (Reply 39):
Pilot error, not likely at FL350 with the AP engaged

If everything is fine, no. However in a crisis, it is quite possible. For example, there was a China Airlines 747 SP * which suffered an engine out and ended up in a spin when the captain took the wrong actions. It landed missing some bits and pieces and eventually returned to service, permanently warped out of true.

Quoting 77west (Reply 39):
Not much reason to disengage AP like AF447 as pretty much perfect weather.

True. However there are malfunctions that could disengage the autopilot.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:44:38]

* Edit to corrected the airline.


[Edited 2014-03-10 04:56:41]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting gr325 (Reply 35):
I am not entirely sure if this has been discussed.
I know the odds are very unlikely but would it be possible the aircraft has been hit by a meteor or other space debris?

I had though of that today actually. Also, what about a drone, military or otherwise?

If this is the case I hope they find the bloody thing lodged in the mouth of a Trent 800 and jail the people responsible.
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Asiaflyer
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:42 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 29):
That would be way off the current search area.


Makes sense. An aircraft can just not disappear, even if it is blown into pieces on 35000 ft altitude. There are too many items which floats in an aircraft. Once they will be able to find the crashsite, the picture will be clearer.
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ltbewr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:43 am

One other terror possibility - a person on the ground crew (mechanic, baggage) at KUL placed a bomb at or near a fuel tank, critical structures to bring the a/c down. The bomb could be set to go off at a certain altitude or time and it went off just as planned, over water to delay finding out who did it. Their motivation could be something against the airline, wanting to hurt a symbol and connected with the government of Malaysia, or perverse Islamic faith belief.
I would suspect anyone who was involved with or anywhere near this a/c have been investigated to see if they had any connection to it's loss.

There are new reports of debris possibly connected with this being located, closer to the southern coast of Vietnam. Hopefully this is true and we can get closer to recover the bodies of the passengers and crew to bring closure to their families and to recover the recorders and key debris to figure out what happened with this a/c.
 
wisborg
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:43 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):
A ticket KUL-PEK would require a prearranged Visa in a Chinese consulate for an European passport holder.

Not correct - the tickets included flights to AMS within 72 hours, so would not require a prearranged visa - see http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cedk/eng/cs/vc/t1087002.htm
 
UALWN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:44 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 16):
Still, this was in the middle of the Pacific...

Not really. Contact was lost 30 min after taking off from NRT.
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:44 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 41):

Indeed. I was mystified 36 hours ago. Now it's just weird. I suppose we should be happy that some accidents nowadays are hard to solve since it implies that they didn't happen "easily."

We are on the same page here. I am checking for news every hour at least and every hour that passes my rational brain gets more upset by this. Firstly for the passengers and crew and their loved ones and secondly because none of it makes any damn sense.

A perfect example of how safe air travel has become that we now only end up with very perplexing and bizzare accidents.
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breiz
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:46 am

Thread part no. 9! And the B777 disappeared only 3 days ago.
I am amazed to see how much can be written out of nearly no information.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 44):

One other terror possibility - a person on the ground crew (mechanic, baggage) at KUL placed a bomb at or near a fuel tank, critical structures to bring the a/c down. The bomb could be set to go off at a certain altitude or time and it went off just as planned, over water to delay finding out who did it. Their motivation could be something against the airline, wanting to hurt a symbol and connected with the government of Malaysia, or perverse Islamic faith belief.
I would suspect anyone who was involved with or anywhere near this a/c have been investigated to see if they had any connection to it's loss.

Possible, but even in a "major boom" scenario, let's call it a TWA800 type explosion, you'd still get large bits and pieces in the water.

Quoting wisborg (Reply 45):


Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):
A ticket KUL-PEK would require a prearranged Visa in a Chinese consulate for an European passport holder.

Not correct - the tickets included flights to AMS within 72 hours, so would not require a prearranged visa - see http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cedk/eng/cs/vc/t1087002.htm

That was in fact the point of SCQ83's post. If you only have a ticket to PEK, you require a visa. However if you have a through ticket you don't.

Quoting breiz (Reply 48):
Thread part no. 9! And the B777 disappeared only 3 days ago.
I am amazed to see how much can be written out of nearly no information.

We do our best. 

If you want to see a lot text about not much data, keep a Twitter search for MH370 open. The volume of tweets is beyond ridiculous.

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:47:56]

[Edited 2014-03-10 04:51:48]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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