SA7700
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:34 pm

Due to length part 12 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 13.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)


*** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ***

A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome. Enjoy the forums!


Regards and thanks so much for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-11 08:15:12]
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liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:43 pm

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:44 pm

To the Moderators: Thank you for bringing some sanity to this discussion. This is a time for serious reflection and sympathy for those affected by this tragedy not idle speculation.
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Ty134A
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:45 pm

did tha plane have some cargo of great value on bord, i.e. "val" gold, money, whatever?
flown on: TU3,TU5,T20,IL8,IL6,ILW,IL9,I14,YK4,YK2,AN2,AN4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80,M87,AB4,AB6,318,313,342,343,345,346,712,703,722,732,735,741,742,743,74L,744,752,753,763,772,J31,F50,F70,F100,ATP,142,143,AR8,AR1,SF3,S20,D38...and others
 
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shamrock604
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:48 pm

Any possibility they were attempting to divert to Penang or Langkawi?

Certainly in the case of Penang, it would be an engineering base for MAS, and has a nice long runway.
 
EnviableOne
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:49 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 254,Thread 12):
The extra surveillance of the Straits of Malacca may also have something to do with dealing with the level of piracy in that area.

AFAIK that area is one of the most high risk for piracy in the world, so I wouldn't be surprised if any radar in the area is optimised for sea-scan rather than aerial detection.

IMHO if MH370 was heading west across the straights of Malacca its probably at the bottom of the Indian ocean by now. As to how it got there, it has to be a combination of factors, as with everything, the simple answers just do not explain everything and we may never know the complete story.

My sympathies to the relatives of the crew and passengers, we live in hope, but I feel time is running out for a positive conclusion.
A wise man speaks because has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something - Plato
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):
There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?

That is actually a very good point. Doesn't it basically imply that the passengers or the cabin crew were not aware of any trouble when crossing the Malaysian peninsula? It is actually quite hard to explain the situation, even considering hypoxia or one of the pilots forcefully taking control of the plane.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 3):
did tha plane have some cargo of great value on bord, i.e. "val" gold, money, whatever?

Perhaps the calligraphies painted by the +/- 20 Chinese calligraphists that made an exhibition in KUL, and perished on that flight. I'm not aware of anything else.


David
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345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:53 pm

If I were a relative of a victim I would be absolutely livid at the bizarre signals coming out of the Malaysian authorities. Surely the most wacky thing is that if this military source talking to Reuters knows the plane made it to the Straits - why haven't they pulled everything out of the Gulf of Thailand and committed them to the new search area? Why did they ever start looking in the Gulf in the first place?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:53 pm

(Repost from the previous thread)

Quoting mila (Reply 244):
Swedish media now refers to Reuters the the military have spotted the aircraft in the Malacka channel.


I think this is false and a misinterpretation (as Aftonbladets articles usually are) and that
Aftonbladet takes the last radar contact as a fact that the plane crashed there.

No other media have reported this and Aftonbladet's articles should always be taken with a
large truck load of salt. They'll post (almost) anything to get some clicks.
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SEA
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):
There's also the other side of this... that if they had control of the plane but no comms- surely they would have tried to raise the alarm by mobile phone, flying over the Malaysian peninsula?

Perhaps that's what they did but without luck?
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 5):
Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 254,Thread 12):
The extra surveillance of the Straits of Malacca may also have something to do with dealing with the level of piracy in that area.

AFAIK that area is one of the most high risk for piracy in the world, so I wouldn't be surprised if any radar in the area is optimised for sea-scan rather than aerial detection.

To use a well-worn internet phrase: I should have been more specific. I was referring to the days when cross-border military incursions were not unheard of. It was still going on in the late 60s and perhaps the early 70s. Although the activity was mainly on Borneo, relations between the two were strained, to say the least.
 
oly720man
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 9):
I think this is false and a misinterpretation (as Aftonbladets articles usually are) and that
Aftonbladet takes the last radar contact as a fact that the plane crashed there.

Reuters update is that the aircraft was......

Earlier on Tuesday, Malaysia's Berita Harian newspaper quoted air force chief Rodzali Daud as saying the Malaysia Airlines plane was last detected by military radar at 2:40 a.m. on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying at a height of about 9,000 metres (29,500 ft), he was quoted as saying.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...nes-military-idUSL3N0M835C20140311
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:05 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

I think single engine height would be lower, when the JAL 787 diverted into HNL this week it immediately headed down to 25,000.
BV
 
klebert
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting 345tas (Reply 8):

I absolutely agree.
The Reuters article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140311)... the Malaysian authorities seem either clueless or have a problem with properly communicating what they are doing - same as the comment during their press conference regarding the Italian soccer player yesterday.
 
panampaul
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:08 pm

It seems odd that information is coming out piecemeal and that the Malaysian military was silent on this fact but....

Quote:
Military officials said that flight 370 was last detected by military radar at 2:40 a.m. local time on Saturday, near the island of Pulau Perak at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca. It was flying at an altitude of 29,500 feet....

above from

Military Tracked Malaysia Airlines Jet to Strait of Malacca

.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 12):
Reuters update is that the aircraft was......

"last detected" is not "crashed" necessarily, since Pulau Perak is quite far from Langkawi/Georgetown or wherever this radar station is likely to be located. So they may have simply flown out of the range of that radar. As said before, now it would be very helpful to know if any Indonesian radar at Sumatra caught anything.
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aircatalonia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:12 pm

I got reminded of the two Iranian fighter jets that lost instrumentation and communications in the vecinity of "a very bright object" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting 345tas (Reply 8):
If I were a relative of a victim I would be absolutely livid at the bizarre signals coming out of the Malaysian authorities. Surely the most wacky thing is that if this military source talking to Reuters knows the plane made it to the Straits - why haven't they pulled everything out of the Gulf of Thailand and committed them to the new search area? Why did they ever start looking in the Gulf in the first place?

  
All these reports about radar detecting the plane going that way and we have evidence it flew across the Malay peninsula at 29K ft etc. give the families likely false hope that their loved ones are still alive somewhere. The Malay authorities should do what the NTSB does in these circumstances and hold regular press conferences where they carefully provide the public with all the hard factual information they have at the time (or if they have none then say so).
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LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:13 pm

Well, it took 41 minutes or so to reach IGARI waypoint at around 1:22, including climb to cruise, but then it takes them roughly another hour and 20 minutes to get near Pulau Perak.

Seems like it took longer than it should have.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:14 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 13):

Quoting liquidair (Reply 1):

zeke alluded to a single engine drift.... what scenario do you envisage could lead to that state with no mayday call being given?

I think single engine height would be lower, when the JAL 787 diverted into HNL this week it immediately headed down to 25,000.

Single engine drift-down is not a given value. It depends on the type of aircraft and most particularly on the weight. Methinks zeke looked at an actual table to get his value.
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asetiadi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:14 pm

So they just ruled out the terrorism part. A suicide plan is very unlikely given the pilot reputation.

If this is an inflight breakup, I am sure they will already find the debris somewhere.

if the plane really did turn back to Kuala Lumpur or going somewhere else, I am sure the pilot will call a Mayday.

This is very puzzling!
 
D L X
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:20 pm

THEORY:

what if what happened was there was an electrical short or fire on the same bus as the ADS-B system? Pilots attempting to extinguish the source of the fire turned off the ADS-B and turned the plane back. That could explain why the plane (possibly) never entered Vietnamese airspace, and why it could actually even be on the other side of the Malaysian peninsula. It doesn't explain the lack of radar signatures though.
 
vfw614
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 21):
A suicide plan is very unlikely given the pilot reputation

How about the Royal Air Maroc, Egypt Air and LAM pilots who committed suicide by crashing their planes ? Were they known madmen or had a "bad reputation"? If somebody has not suffered from known mental illnesses for a long time (and pilots surely would be grounded in such a case), suicides often happen as a complete surprise to those knowing the person.

PS: Recounting those cases, quite chilling that suicide of pilots by crashing a passenger airliner has already happened a couple of times.

[Edited 2014-03-11 07:22:18]
 
flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:23 pm

Hopefully this isn't a case of spatial confusion, like in the Invicta International Airlines flight 435 that crashed years and years ago just a few kilometers from me:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mons/e/e6/Basel-435-Flugunfall.jpg   


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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:29 pm

So, what he have now is a statement from the authorities that indicates a radar return travelling from this flights last known position, over Malaysia and out of radar contact over the Indian Ocean.

If that radar return was indeed the missing 777, I can only think of two explanations: Incapacitation of all on board or a silent hijacking.

Hijacking or a pilot going rogue would explain the transponder and ACARS not transmitting. If this is what actually happened, I fear the CVR and FDR would have been turned off also, thus giving the authorities very little chance of knowing what actually happened.

[Edited 2014-03-11 07:36:30]
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SKAirbus
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:32 pm

I guess if there is no trace of the aircraft in the middle of one of the busiest shipping channels in the world, it could have drifted out into the Indian Ocean and flown for hours until the fuel ran out. I wonder... could the crew have passed out?

It wouldn't explain why the transponder was off though. So perplexing. I just wish there was a simple explanation.
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FlashA350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Hi All, I’m new to this forum.
I have a question, what will happen if the cockpit windows break explosively? Can it also destroy the electronics?
 
flyenthu
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:36 pm

If the plane changed course, would it not show on the flight path map on the plane?
 
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 28):
f the plane changed course, would it not show on the flight path map on the plane?

Not if the correct nav systems were turned off.

[Edited 2014-03-11 07:39:16]
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hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 26):
I just wish there was a simple explanation.

These sorts of events almost never have simple explanations.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
liquidair
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 6):

and not only the passengers- i'd assume the pilots would have tried if they flew for near one and a half hours in the opposite direction.

Quoting SEA (Reply 10):

could be, seems possible they may have tried, but we just don't know about it yet.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 12):
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 13):

They turned at 32,000 ft and then lost another 2,500ft.... i asked in the last thread- is this consistent with an intentional descent or do we think maybe this is what could happen after 1hr20mins of a plane 'drifting' downwards? To put it simply, what caused them to lose that altitude?

I'll be totally honest and say I don't really understand much about power and altitude relations...ie. if one engine was out, what would happen?
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e195
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:42 pm

I know its been asked about dangerous cargo, but what about VALUABLE cargo?
IE Gold Bars / Bank Notes

The captain / co pilot may have know about it, and flown off piste per say somewhere remote, and made off with the cargo...?

E195
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oly720man
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting FlashA350 (Reply 27):
I have a question, what will happen if the cockpit windows break explosively? Can it also destroy the electronics?

No, but the chances of a cockpit window breaking like that are next to zero. They are very thick and multilayered. The worst that happens is that one layer may fail and crack, for example...


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David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:47 pm

The fact that they initially said there was evidence it "may" have turned back so expanded the search to include the Malacca Strait then said they were putting more focus on that area suggests to me that the evidence might not have been as obvious as some seem to think and needed some analysis. It doesn't necessarily suggest to me that someone sat and watched something they knew to be MH370 and waited before doing anything about it and yet that seems to be what some believe.

Without knowing what the evidence was, I think it's too early to criticise.
 
uta999
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:48 pm

If the crew and passengers were in a hypoxia state. The aircraft would carry on flying on the last heading until the fuel ran out, unless it was in a descent already.

It should be possible to work out almost exactly where it would run out of fuel, in the middle of the Indian Ocean and search out from that location.
 
Flaps
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:50 pm

It all looks pretty intentional to me. Im not about to speculate on who or how but I would certainly like to get a glimpse of what was in the hold. Not what what the documentation says was supposed to be there but what was actually there. It looks like they made a beeline toward the west coast of Africa. If they didn't go low they probably had enough fuel for any number of remote destinations.

The existing data available does not fit with any known failure scenario but does fit any number of suicidal, criminal, terror or military scenarios.

As for the Malaysians, give them a break. This is an extremely complex issue and no information is better than incorrect information. They have a lot of angles to cover and their primary mission is not to sate the general publics appetite for information.
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:51 pm

I flew on 9M-MRG in June 2011. There were cards in each seat (see image below) mentioning this new technology that was just installed on this MH 777 only so far at the time that allows people to use their mobile phones inflight to make calls. I thought this was interesting so I took a pic of part of the info card.



I'm wondering that if this was now available on all MH 777s (not sure what planes had it installed) and it was therefore possible to make mobile phone calls inflight... I think you get the idea... Sorry if this has been discussed before but I remembered taking this pics so I thought I'd go looking for it as some people have discussed why no phone calls were received from passengers by friends / relatives. I believe it was possible to make a mobile phone call from this aircraft regardless of its location as a result of whatever was installed. So if it was possible to make calls, why were none made???
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345tas
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:51 pm

Has the military said in what direction they were heading when the plane was seen on radar near Pulau Perak?

In the scenario of all onboard incapacitated, which I know is highly problematic in itself, my reading would be that if the aircraft flew across the Straits, it would have then continued over Sumatra, and again you'd think it would have been seen by Indonesian radar, civil and military. Google Maps: https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Pulau+Perak/@5.0897163,98.5893249,8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x304976135f4045a1:0xd79cd6ef07d5bb96

Or if the plane was still being navigated, I guess they could have avoided radar and headed into the Indian Ocean.
 
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Owleye
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:51 pm

When an airliner suddenly changes route isn't it the task of the air force to scramble and to intercept the plane to check what is happening?
 
blueheronNC
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:52 pm

At this point, I'd be checking with the Maldives to see if they picked up any radar signals...
 
acelanzarote
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:54 pm

On the basis that nothing with this flight disappearing and being found seems straight forward, how long before China who had alot of their citizens onboard start making more noise about the seeming lack of progress? Unless they are being told a lot more than what is in the public domain?

If foul play (with the pilots) ever becomes proven what if any effect may this have on MAS?

Sure hope its found soon, as no news is bad news in this case I suspect.

RIP all on MH370.
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oly720man
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Quoting blueheronNC (Reply 41):
I'd be checking with the Maldives to see if they picked up any radar signals...

Or Diego Garcia, which is also in that neck of the woods, and maybe has better radars than the Maldives may have.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 35):

Yes, but that was poor maintenance
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rcair1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 6):
That is actually a very good point. Doesn't it basically imply that the passengers or the cabin crew were not aware of any trouble when crossing the Malaysian peninsula? It is actually quite hard to explain the situation, even considering hypoxia or one of the pilots forcefully taking control of the plane.

Frankly - this is getting very strange. If the aircraft was actually detected (tracked?) to the strait of Malacca at 29500 flying with no transponder, ACARS, etc. that bodes poorly for it being actually in that area. If it was cruising and stable, but perhaps not controlled by pilots, it could have continued far far into the Indian Ocean. I, too, doubt that the crew of a plane in distress flying across this area would not have tried unconventional methods to contact anybody. Furthermore, why would it continue west if the crew was able to function. They would clearly see the lights of cities below them - and the black ocean ahead.

I can only think of two general 'scenarios' that could cause this.
1- Some major failure on the a/c that takes out all comms. The crew starts a return (turn left, start descent) and then becomes disabled. However, there must still be electrics/hydraulics for this - because the a/c seems to have maintained heading and altitude. If the A/P were disabled, and the crew disabled, this would not happen.

2- Positive action by some human agency, crew or other, to turn off comms and turn away.

1 requires something that disables the crew that somewhat slowly. Hypoxia makes the most sense, but they would have to not know it was coming on - or they would descend rapidly. Perhaps such a major electrical failure that the warnings of a depressurizing cabin did not occur? Is there a manual gauge in the 777 showing cabin altitude. Coule the crew have not realized the cabin was depressurizing? This would require a slow depressurization - or surely they would go on O2 or descend. How long does it take a 777 to depressurize assuming an intact hull and just loss of the pressurization system?

Could any fire disable the crew but leave the a/c flying straight and, and the passengers unaware and not trying to communicate? I find that unlikely. Any fire severe enough to do this would likely result in loss of the aircraft pretty quickly.

2 requires action that either, some of the crew was involved in, or was so rapid they could not communicate, followed by somebody still flying the plane.

I struggle with either scenario.

But - at this point, I'm getting less confident that the a/c did not continue merrily on it's way out to the Indian Ocean.
rcair1
 
theaviator380
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting Owleye (Reply 40):

I would assume yes, it depends on procedure of the country if I am not wrong. The moment it vanished off the radar, Air force could have called in action? I am not expert just guessing and putting some kind of logic in.
 
PlaneInsomniac
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:34 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:59 pm

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 21):
So they just ruled out the terrorism part.

Who ruled out what? As far as I understand, all they said was that a link between the two stolen passport holders and terrorism was unlikely, because they were likely "asylum-seekers".

Beyond that, we know absolutely nothing about this crash. EVERY explanation is still possible, including a hijacking or bomb.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
michi
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:18 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:00 pm

There is an update on avherald again: http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

The editorial note is interesting. Maybe MH370 descended to an altitude of 1000m/3000ft. This would bring all together:

- low flying aircraft at the east coast of malaysia
- low flying aircraft at the west coast of malaysian
- difficulties for the military to read out radar data because of the low altitude

I am checking minimum altitudes for malaysia right now.

This is not an explanation what might have happened, but it is kind of convincing to me.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 21):
So they just ruled out the terrorism part. A suicide plan is very unlikely given the pilot reputation.

The pilot had a good reputation... now how about the co-pilot?
Son of a bigwig in government, and seems to have a history of breaking the rules.
Could we have another AF447 or MS990 or both here?

Quoting garpd (Reply 25):
So, what he have now is a statement from the authorities that indicates a radar return travelling from this flights last known position, over Malaysia and out of radar contact over the Indian Ocean.

To me that is utterly ridiculous. If everyone is incapacitated, they wouldn't turn that way... and primary radars in at least 2 countries would have picked them up...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
blueheronNC
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:19 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 48):
Beyond that, we know absolutely nothing about this crash. EVERY explanation is still possible, including a hijacking or bomb.

Exactly. This has just made the haystack a whole lot larger to find that needle. But everything is still on a table, including a "failed" hijacking ultimately resulting in a bomb going off, or a Flight 93-esque ditching, except 1000 miles from land.



[Edited 2014-03-11 08:04:18]
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13

Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 24):
Hopefully this isn't a case of spatial confusion, like in the Invicta International Airlines flight 435 that crashed years and years ago just a few kilometers from me:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mons/e/e6/Basel-435-Flugunfall.jpg


This is an interesting idea, but with Invicta, the First Officer was of marginal competence (spotty work history), and there are some lingering questions regarding electromagnetic interference influencing the navigational beacons. However, given that SAR has looked in all the 'logical' places based on 9M-MRO's last postion and trajectory, I am also inclined to think that it went off in an unanticipated direction for some reason.

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