SA7700
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:18 am

Due to length part 18 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 19.

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B777-200ER missing enroute KUL-PEK (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysian Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines 772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)
MH370 B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)


A select few members have been making remarks towards others in the “Missing Malaysia Airlines 777 threads” for speculating about the fate of 9M-MRO, her crew and passengers. Given the fact that there is so much uncertainty going on at this stage, speculation is going to be a factor on this site and also at the biggest and greatest news corporations of the globe. At least until we all have a clearer picture. Is it a perfect situation – certainly not? That being said, we need to stay dynamic in a possible fast-changing situation.

It is not unique to this incident and if we go back in history and trace remarkable aviation events we will see that speculation has been an aspect, essential to some healthy debate. It is not the intention of the moderators to stifle the opinions of members that fall within the rules-and regulations of airliners.net. All that we kindly request from all our members is to stay within the site’s parameters. Please be respectful towards one another and let us all hope for the best possible outcome.


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND:


**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; could we please keep science fiction theories and content related to possible future movie rights out of these threads? ****

**** Please do not repeat questions and scenarios that were covered and discussed in previous threads and which do not contribute in a constructive manner towards the real topic any longer. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:35:26]
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garpd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:22 am

Has any other incident ever covered so many threads?

Dear Lord, 19 threads and we still only know one thing: A 777-200ER is missing.
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77west
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 1):
Dear Lord, 19 threads and we still only know one thing: A 777-200ER is missing.

Wait untill they find it... we will be up to 100 threads....
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:32 am

So the WSJ report about RR receiving ACARS messages 4 hours after the last otherwise known contact with the plane turned out to be untrue, according to MH, Boeing and RR. So much for the "the WSJ wouldn't put their reputation on the line like that unless they were totally sure of this" theories...
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Dalavia
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:33 am

In view of the press conference this evening that denied Rolls-Royce and Boeing had any evidence that MH370 continued to fly for several hours after radio contact, I re-read the WSJ article very closely.

Leaving aside the weasel words like "US investigators suspect...", "officials are pursuing the possibility..." and "officials were told investigators are actively pursuing...", I think the key words of this very clearly and precisely written article that relate to the original source of the theory are the following:

"The investigators believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program."

This seems to be the data that the MAS spokesman denied existed.

So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?

In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:35 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 3):
So the WSJ report about RR receiving ACARS messages 4 hours after the last otherwise known contact with the plane turned out to be untrue, according to MH, Boeing and RR. So much for the "the WSJ wouldn't put their reputation on the line like that unless they were totally sure of this" theories...

Reply 262 of the last thread discusses a possibility...
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:38 am

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 251):
I see the point you're trying to make, but what if the search turns up nothing? Does one start searching the homes of the passengers? Imagine the backlash!

Yes, especially those who create a loud "ping" with the intelligence agencies. I can't imagine they haven't studied the passenger manifest minutely to try to identify any persons of interest.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:39 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 5):
Reply 262 of the last thread discusses a possibility...

Thank you 777Jet.

My Reply 262 in the previous thread was posted just after the thread was locked (you have to be SO quick here!).

I have re-posted my question in Reply 4 above.

[Edited for spelling]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:39:59]
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:45 am

I'd like to know what was on the cargo manifest. We discussed before about the MH A330 that was written off. I was just searching for more details about it and learned it had just arrived from PEK:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000315-0

"After arrival from a flight from Beijing, baggage handlers were unloading 80 canisters weighing 2,000kg when they were hit by the strong toxic fumes. Five ground handlers became ill while unloading the canisters.
A check by airport fire and rescue personnel revealed the canisters contained a chemical called oxalyl chloride. Several canisters had leaked, causing severe damage to the aircraft fuselage. The aircraft was considered damaged beyond repair.
After a fice-year lawsuit a Beijing court ordered Dalian, a Chinese state-run company, to pay USD65 million in compensation, plus interest, for destroying the Airbus A330 with falsely declared cargo with corrosive chemicals. The company had mis-identified the canisters as being a safe powder-type chemical."
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:46 am

I think we have to bear in mind the following.

If the disappearance is considered natural, then MAS or anyone else for that matter, should have no reason to withhold information from the public. For the first few days all normal commercial operations have been checked but found wanting.

However, Malaysia does not have the capabilities of the US, and maybe China, to track a multiplicity of activities through it's spy network. If the US has volunteered sensitive information privately to the Malaysian government with the intention to keep vital information away from the public, and any adversary, then misinformation is the natural result. Is this what we are seeing now? I suppose only time will tell.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:46 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?

Technically possible in theory, I suppose. But now we're really getting into tinfoil hat territory. What would be the motive?

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?

Of course not. But this doesn't mean there is a cover-up. This data has to travel far over multiple relays, any of which might drop the ball, as it were.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 9):
If the disappearance is considered natural, then MAS or anyone else for that matter, should have no reason to withhold information from the public.

Malaysia and other countries involved may very well want to keep air defense radar capability secret.


From previous thread:

Slinky09 - Why would you not search the homes of the crew, just as a precaution to eliminate any activity on their part?

Answer: I'll assume here that Malay law is similar to most Western law systems given the UK heritage. Since there really is no evidence to implicate the crew in anything, you can't search their homes. A judge can not rule probable cause and thus a search warrant cannot be issued.


Slinky09 - I was watching on Sky News who had Eric Moody (BA pilot of 747 that suffered four engine failure over Indonesia) who said he believes something is being held back.

Answer: Perhaps, but this does not automatically imply malicious intent. Being cautious with information release is a reasonable precaution.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:49:04]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:46 am

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In view of the press conference this evening that denied Rolls-Royce and Boeing had any evidence that MH370 continued to fly for several hours after radio contact, I re-read the WSJ article very closely.

This is truely the worlds worse soap opera. The daily press conferences get more confussed and depressing everytime.

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
So my question is this: is it possible for such data to be generated but not communicated to Rolls-Royce or MAS for some reason (such as distance from VHF relays etc), but still be able to accessed by the US military or other US Government officials?
Quoting Dalavia (Reply 4):
In other words, is saying that the data was not received (by Rolls-Royce, Boeing, etc) the same thing as saying that the data was never generated?

The NSA has the planet tapped so its possible..

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:50:41]
BV
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:48 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):

Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?
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dtfg
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:51 am

Ok guys I don't know if this theory has been brought in before, but it is the one I think could answer most of the questions.

The co-pilot, or any hijacker who knows how to fly the plane, and how turn off all the communication systems, took control of the aircraft. He then changed the route and altitude to avoid radar surveillance. The plane finally landed intact at an small airport ( particularly a military airbase ). The hijackers started to negotiate with Malaysian officials and warned them not to make the incident public until the deal is completed, otherwise all passengers on board would be in danger.

I think, this theory answers all the following questions:

1. The plane lost all contacts with the ground.
2. 5 day's massive searching finds nothing, no debris, no bodies, no signs of in-air explosion,,,
3. No confirmed witness of crash, force landing, explosion etc.
4. Military said the last signal they received was not in the Bay of Thailand, but rather in the Strait of Malacca, which indicates the plane had changed its route.
5. Relatives in Beijing and Kuala reported they were able to call the passengers' cell phone, but no answers.
6. Malaysia officials seemed to be very unprofessional in the SAR
7. SAR is still underway (Just a show)

Yibo

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:56:29]
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:52 am

I suppose it is technically possible that the plane's satcom system initiated communications with the satellite but it was interrupted and no ACARS message was generated but still have some trace in the satellite communication logs. 100% speculation on my part.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:52 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):

Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

I would think so.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:53 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
But this doesn't mean there is a cover-up.

Interesting. I wasn't even thinking of a cover-up or a plot of some kind.

I was simply wondering whether technical limitations (such as distance or altitude) may have caused a communications breakdown - trying to look at every possibility before the WSJ article is dismissed in my mind.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:53 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

The Environmental Control System is designed to deliver fresh air straigtht from the Left pack to the cockpit. Anything burning or heavily smoking in the holds or cabin should theoretically not be able to make it to the flightdeck as it would be forced out the outflow valve before.

Then again, it is a complex system and we can speculate forever (which we seem to be doing anyway) on different failure scenarios which would allow it to happen. I'm sure there's a few.
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:57 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

The smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds. And then the air systems are designed to keep it out of the flight deck.

While we are talking ETOPS, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.

Quoting dtfg (Reply 13):
Ok guys I don't know if this theory has been brought in before, but it is the one I think could answer most of the questions.

The co-pilot, or any hijacker who knows how to fly the plane, and how turn off all the communication systems, took control of the aircraft. He then changed the route and altitude to avoid radar surveillance. The plane finally landed intact at an small airport ( particularly a military airbase ). The hijackers started to negotiate with Malaysian officials and warned them not to make the incident public until the deal is completed, otherwise all passengers on board would be in danger.

I think, this theory answers all the following questions:

1. The plane lost all contacts with the ground.
2. 5 day's massive searching finds nothing, no debris, no bodies, no signs of in-air explosion,,,
3. No confirmed witness of crash, force landing, explosion etc.
4. Military said the last signal they received was not in the Bay of Thailand, but rather in the Strait of Malacca, which indicates the plane had changed its route.
5. Relatives in Beijing and Kuala reported they were able to call the passengers' cell phone, but no answers.
6. Malaysia officials seems to be very unprofessional in the SAR
7. SAR is still underway (Just a show)

While remotely possible, this theory has way too much James Bond to be likely. So many things would have to work perfectly the first time that only the world's most naive/foolhardly/idiotic terrorist would even attempt it. I suppose if you had the terrorist equivalent of Chuck Norris, the only man alive who can land a plane on Runway 37.

1. It would be very difficult to steer clear of all radar and all observers. As those who have flown over the Gulf of Thailand will tell you, there are so many fishing boats you could practically walk across by hopping from one to the other. Ok, so I may be exaggerating a bit but this area is packed with shipping.
5. For the hundredth time, this was debunked days ago. Those phones are NOT BEING REACHED. They are not ringing. If they could really be reached tracking the phones would be trivial.

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:58:36]

[Edited 2014-03-13 03:59:19]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:00:22]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:00:43]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:01:53]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

Sure, but the smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds.

Then again, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

Sure, but the smoke alarms would have detected it. A rather large part of ETOPS certification is actually beefed up fire suppression in the holds.

Then again, we don't know if this 777 was ETOPS certified and equipped.

My worry would be what a corrosive substance could do to the structure / air frame if it were to leak.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:06 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19):
My worry would be what a corrosive substance could do to the structure / air frame if it were to leak.

It would have to be ridiculously corrosive to get through the cargo container, the cargo hold floor and the fuselage in a few hours. Look at it this way. If it was that corrosive how could they get it on the flight before it corroded its way through the container?

And assuming it was burning through, it wouldn't get through everything instantly. And even if it did that and the plane had a structural failure, you'd have major pieces of debris.
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koruman
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:08 am

On the first day, there were unconfirmed reports of the aircraft landing at Nanning in southern China, which were discounted after someone rang the airport and was told that the aircraft wasn't there.

Have any western journalists attempted to visit civilian and especially military airfields in China to see whether there is a 777 on the tarmac?

If this was a hijacking, it took place within a week of the terror attack in Kunming by Chinese Muslim separatists, and on an aircraft to China. We've all seen different countries respond to hijackings differently. But this aircraft was flying to China, and any hijacking by terrorists presumably had the Chinese as the target.

I would assume that if the aircraft was hijacked, the Chinese would have got it to land at a remote military airfield and would then have tried to storm it. If they did, and if they failed, with mass casualties, what would they have done next? Continue the charade of an offshore search and rescue mission?
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:09 am

Maybe Malaysian decided to send the canisters that ruined their A330 back to the Chinese company.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 12):
Hmm, lets just entertain for a moment, if only in idle chit chat, the possibility of a cargo item generating toxic and potentially flammable fumes/gases. Could such enter the passenger cabin and EE bay from the cargo holds on a 772ER with ETOPS rating?

AFAIK - no, because the bleed air first gets to the pax cabin, and then to the cargo area. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise. There are also dedicated "channels" near the cabin wall at foot height so that the air can easily go from the cabin to the cargo bay.


David
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slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:10 am

To earlier questions on whether the plane flew on for several hours, the minister said:

"I would like to refer to news reports suggesting that the aircraft may have been flying for some time after the last contact. Those reports are inaccurate."

He was referring to reports of data receipt by RR / Boeing which he says they confirmed did not happen. But if he can say this, I wonder what information leads him to conclude that, he seems to be indicating loss of the aircraft close to its last known position (then why has nothing been found?).
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:10 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 104):



Now that you mention.... I think actually the explanation is that Chuck Norris was on the plane, he got served a cold cup of coffee.... and the rest is history. He jumped out without parachute of course, such is the guy!




Quoting radone (Reply 180):



This is hilarious. MLE airport is visible by thousands of people at all times, no huge hangars or places to hide big aircraft, and planes have to fly over a busy harbour with plenty of tourist boats among them honeymooners, diving liveaboards, etc

Furthermore it's daily served from Europe and Middle East with the likes of EK, BA, QR, etc quite difficult to remain hidden!
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:11 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 21):
If this was a hijacking, it took place within a week of the terror attack in Kunming by Chinese Muslim separatists, and on an aircraft to China. We've all seen different countries respond to hijackings differently. But this aircraft was flying to China, and any hijacking by terrorists presumably had the Chinese as the target.

I would assume that if the aircraft was hijacked, the Chinese would have got it to land at a remote military airfield and would then have tried to storm it. If they did, and if they failed, with mass casualties, what would they have done next? Continue the charade of an offshore search and rescue mission?

What possible motive would the Chinese have for such an asinine stunt? And as with the "terrorists took it" scenario this one also depends on far too many things to work perfectly the first time.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:12 am

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 22):
Maybe Malaysian decided to send the canisters that ruined their A330 back to the Chinese company.


 rotfl   Big grin

I appreciate your hyper-dark humor that incorporates lots of weapons-grade balonium!


Is there still no news about checking the floating stuff photographed by the Chinese satellite? Last I read was that Malaysian authorities were under way checking it...


David

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:13:28]
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:13 am

NOW EVERYONE CAN HELP TRYING TO LOCATE THE WRECKAGE BY CLICKING HERE:

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:14 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 28):
NOW EVERYONE CAN HELP TRYING TO LOCATE THE WRECKAGE BY CLICKING HERE:

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014

1. Please don't yell.
2. This has been mentioned multiple times already. Please skim previous threads and do a text search.
3. Some informed posters have doubts about this imagery being from the correct area.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:16 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 28):

You can do that since three days, give or take.


I would really appreciate it if the mods would push our little wiki - http://mh370.wikia.com - so that redundant stuff doesn't get asked and posted time and again.


David
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EnviableOne
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:16 am

One thing I think has been missed, if you look at the FR24 data M9-MRO was flying on track 025 and the last data loses altitude and the track changes to 040, so if you take this as a basis, the SAR ops are focusing toward the west, when the last heading was north east.

Personally I find it a little convenient that the transponder stopped transmitting as they changed ATC and were changing heading.

From my POV i think the search should be looking in the direction of the Philippines, and more specifically the thousands of small islands between Malaysia and there, rather than India.

From the looks of things the Malaysian authorities just dont seem to be equipped to handle an operation of this scale, and it seems they have now got over themselves and accepted help from the US.

In terms of SAR sureley it would have been prudent to get the Australians involved, as they are posibly the most experienced at SAR in large expanses of ocean, considering the amount of time they spend locating sailors in the southern ocean.
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:18 am

I must not forget that 'the transponder stopped transmitting' - that is the key clue...
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:21 am

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 31):
From the looks of things the Malaysian authorities just dont seem to be equipped to handle an operation of this scale, and it seems they have now got over themselves and accepted help from the US.

We don't know that. All we know is that press information seems to have been somewhat jumbled.

Since the loss of contact happened in the Singapore SSR (search and rescue region) it is entirely possible Singapore is leading efforts in that region.

Anyone have detailed info on that?

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 31):
In terms of SAR sureley it would have been prudent to get the Australians involved, as they are posibly the most experienced at SAR in large expanses of ocean, considering the amount of time they spend locating sailors in the southern ocean.

They are involved. BTW the Gulf of Thailand and neighboring parts of the South China Sea are not much like the Southern Ocean. Very high traffic volume. Oil rigs. Warm, shallow waters.

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:21:48]
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celestar
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:27 am

I think based on latest information, it seems that the airplane continues to fly, how come no one talks about searching around Philippines sea or areas? We all know that country probably have limited air force but all the attention are diverted to Malacca street, west of Malaysia just because of a report on Malaysian Air Force radar picking up signal. I think the search area should be further expanded on both side, east and west of the last communication lost location.
Anyone wants to shed some lights on this.
 
noflies
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
Is there still no news about checking the floating stuff photographed by the Chinese satellite? Last I read was that Malaysian authorities were under way checking it...

"an MMEA plane was deployed but found nothing and that the government of China neither authorised nor endorsed the release of satellite images." From today's press conference.

More info: http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraf...ssing--says-airline-023820132.html
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:30 am

Quoting EnviableOne (Reply 31):
In terms of SAR sureley it would have been prudent to get the Australians involved, as they are posibly the most experienced at SAR in large expanses of ocean, considering the amount of time they spend locating sailors in the southern ocean.

They also spend a lot of time, probably more time, locating boat people in the waters between Australia and Indonesia.  
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EnviableOne
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:35 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):

They are involved. BTW the Gulf of Thailand and neighboring parts of the South China Sea are not much like the Southern Ocean. Very high traffic volume. Oil rigs. Warm, shallow waters.

I wasn't saying the areas are similar, its more about managing the SAR effort, along the lines of co-ordinating resources from multiple nationalities, along with constant media interest.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 36):

They also spend a lot of time, probably more time, locating boat people in the waters between Australia and Indonesia.

So even more reason to give them the lead...
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David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:36 am

I was still wading through the previous thread when it was closed but there are some comments I still want to make:

From Part 18...

Quoting Owleye (Reply 8):
My feeling: maybe a stealth aircraft collided in mid-air with the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777. The airliner crashed in South Chinese Sea and the stealth aircraft tried to get back to Diego Garcia or other base but did not make it and crashed into Malakka Street.
Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 29):
Has it been confirmed that the person was on MH370?
Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 184):
Unless flight went SW of KUL area near Port Dickson where someone already found a body and that area has not been searched yet (may be purposely?)

There was video of the attempt to retrieve a life-raft off Port Dickson yesterday. The consensus here was that it is a marine life-raft and not from MH370 and that has been officially confirmed. Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume the "body in a life-jacket" is either related to that life-raft or there has been some confusion in the news media (big surprise   ) and they are one and the same.

Quoting kevinkevin (Reply 205):
Rolls Royce has said the engines stopped sending data the same time ATC lost contact with MH370. Sky News have just reported.
Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 211):
I cannot write what I am thinking...

Same here. I might order a new f-key for my keyboard, just in case.   

No wonder the Malaysian officials "appear defensive". We've just witnessed yet another misleading heap of BS that was completely beyond their control yet people will still blame them.

Edit: typos.

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:39:27]

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:40:30]
 
JimJupiter
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting celestar (Reply 34):
I think based on latest information, it seems that the airplane continues to fly

There's no evidence for that.
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Gonzalo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:37 am

I'm astonished for the low level that some journalist can have. They repeat everything like trained parrots, without checking absoultely nothing. Some are, today March 13th, still saying that "it is a big mistery why the cellphones of the passengers are still ringing".... Really?? Are you kidding me ?? No surprise that, with the average level of the press and news outlets, and the usually low level knowledge about the industry among the general public, this accident is rapidly becoming a source of dozens of myths and ridiculous and disinformed theories. A truly sad state of affairs, specially considering the number of people directly affected.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 27):
Is there still no news about checking the floating stuff photographed by the Chinese satellite? Last I read was that Malaysian authorities were under way checking it...

Malaysia's transport minister says search teams investigated Chinese satellite photos and did not find anything.


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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:38 am

If this a/c was flying for 4 hours after its transponder was turned off, that would pretty much wipe out/write over the information on the CVR and possibly the FDR, if recovered, at the point the transponder was turned off. That would cover up a hijacking or pilot going rogue.

If this was an act of terrorism, it is most likely a splinter group targeting the Malaysian government. That may explain the difficulties with the public by the Malaysian government and military with this event.

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:40:19]
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting JimJupiter (Reply 39):
Quoting celestar (Reply 34):
I think based on latest information, it seems that the airplane continues to fly

There's no evidence for that.

What is intriguing is that there is no evidence yet that it crashed or stopped flying normally...
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 1):
Dear Lord, 19 threads and we still only know one thing: A 777-200ER is missing.

Not quite! I feel that we know the following for sure:

En route to PEK the 777 lost communication instruments. There are two possibilities for that ->

1) massive and sudden electrical incident
2) done on purpose

Now it seems there is a third thread to gram onto:

3) sent data from running engines after the loss of contact.

Beyond that anything to me is pure speculation....

I think a thread gathering info about the vanished 777 would make sense, since currently we all go under in speculation. Maybe the mods would start one, and keep the first entry updatet with what is known... otherwise it wont make any sense, since nobody is able to follow already 19 parts, with theories from meteorits, ufos, aliens, iranians, chinese, terror, technical faliour, sabotage and what so ever!!!!
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:44 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 43):

3) sent data from running engines after the loss of contact.

This was just debunked by RR, MAS and Boeing.
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:45 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 26):
What possible motive would the Chinese have for such an asinine stunt? And as with the "terrorists took it" scenario this one also depends on far too many things to work perfectly the first time.

The first thing to acknowledge is that the Chinese would be very likely to storm an aircraft if it was hijacked to their country.

The second thing to acknowledge is that if they messed it up they would be even less likely to give a full and forthcoming account of it than the Malaysians would. They would want not only to save face, but to avoid acknowledging the ineptitide of their special forces.

You only need to go back to 2010's Manila hostage crisis (on a bus) to see how easily a storming can be bungled. You can go back to Dawson's Field in 1970 to see that aircraft hijacked to a remote military airfield may never fly out.

I'm not advancing this as "the" most likely cause. I'm just pointing out that we don't know that the aircraft didn't actually land in China.
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
3. Some informed posters have doubts about this imagery being from the correct area.

I am currently scanning an area off the coast of Ho Chi Minh City... they don't seem to be too far off...
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:47 am

Apologies to rcair for stealing his excellent summary from Part 16 but I felt it needs to be repeated ASAP:

Sanity check.
I'm going to try to list what we know, not what we think - we being the public. And sadly it is very short.

- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing
- The last comms were a normal handoff from Malaysia to Vietnam control.
- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.
- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.
- There is some reports of a descent and turn - based on primary radar.
- But there is confusion about the veracity of that.
- There is some confusion (in the press) about if the descent was 3000ft or to 3000ft
- There was a primary radar return tracked west over the Malacca straits.
- Since it is primarily - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.
- We do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.
- We have no ELT signal detected.

Based on this information - authorities are searching 2 areas - near the planned route and in the Malacca straight.
- Frankly - this is quite reasonable. You search where you have evidence the a/c may be.

There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.
- We have no data to support any of them.
- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects
- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.

We have lots of complaints about incompetence.
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.
- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.

There are lots of people talking about "mobile phones".
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.
- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.

We have had a lot of "false" sightings
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.

In summary
We KNOW 3 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.
- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.
- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

That is all
 
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:48 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 42):
What is intriguing is that there is no evidence yet that it crashed or stopped flying normally...

True. But it still has to be hypothesis No. 1 that it crashed, and that we don't know why because we haven't found the wreck yet. At least it's far more rational than all the 007-like speculations that try to explain why the transponder went off.

"You can't prove the opposite" is the standart reasoning for all conspiracy theorists. Respecting the moderators' statement at the top of this thread, I want to be very careful with that.

E: Thanks @David L for posting this again!

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:50:16]
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19

Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:49 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 43):
theories from meteorits, ufos, aliens, iranians, chinese, terror, technical faliour, sabotage and what so ever!!!!

Drones.  

I might call it a day, keeping in mind that if I lose my $250 mobile phone it can be found anywhere in the world yet a massive $250 million dollar aircraft with a proven safety record, carrying hundreds of people, can just go missing leaving authorities clueless after days...

[Edited 2014-03-13 04:51:11]
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