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SA7700
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:25 pm

Due to length part 26 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 27.

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)



**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline



************************************************************************************************


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SA7700
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Clancy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:32 pm

First time poster here and glad to join such a remarkable aviation lovers' community.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 238):

Yeah, and what you said is one of the problem of the theory that Uyghur terrorists took over the plane for the purpose of carrying further attacks.

Also, the history of attacks carried out by Uyghur terrorists suggested that they are hardly capable of pulling off something of such magnitude.
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:36 pm

reply that got posted to the old thread after cutoff:

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 244):
The only thing that doesn't work for the 'shadow theory' is, what if either of the flights got delayed? That's one hell of a risk.

Oh, it definitely is. You'd have to do your homework - look for a reliable airline, an aircraft type with a great dispatch rate, and a particular route with good consistency in departure times, and then roll the dice (take the risk/chance). The KLM flight seems to fit this profile...
 
KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
Hardly any hijackings have been executed by the pilot or crew. It is incredibly rare.

I don't subscribe to the hijacking theory quite yet, I think the details are too nebulous at this point. That said, it's worth mentioning an airline pilot hijacked a plane just last month: http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/17/world/...rope/ethiopian-airlines-hijacking/

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 72):
What if this is a joy ride gone bad. Lets assume crew wanted to take it to 45,000.

What point in the flight are people claiming the plane went to 45,000ft? Because at the point of disappearance it was too heavy to do so.

Quoting katekebo (Reply 95):
could the following scenarios / sequence of events be possible?

An electrical/mechanical/structural issue is very possible.

[Edited 2014-03-15 10:43:18]
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:42 pm

Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:44 pm

Plots involving other countries just involve so much risk. What if someones radar detected the plane? Downline, how many people would have to know? Only takes one to call Malaysia and say they want a $1,000,000 award to tell where the plane is...

I just don't think its realistic.

Way to many complex steps that could have gone wrong.

I think someone hijacked the plane... I have no clue if it was crew (pilot, co pilot, FA) or passenger(s). They had a plan to do something, and something went wrong, or he/she/they changed their plans on the go.

Somehow, I believe the plane ended up flying away, maybe on its own...., and I am guessing the Southern route. There would have been some immediate response if the plane flew through some of the countries on the northern route. It would have been detected. Just my opinion.

I believe the plane crashed along the southern route in the IO. A lot simpler explanation than the northern route state sponsored landing somewhere undetected theories
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:46 pm

Quote:
Quoting nm2582 (Reply 243):
Keep in mind that we aren't talking "shadow" in the sense of the other aircraft blocking the radar radio energy, we are only talking about flying close enough that a single blip/return appears on radar. The radar will fully be exposed to the return energy from both aircraft, but they are so close that the radar can not resolve them as two separate returns.

If it is not close enough it will show up as a bigger blip on radar and those are watching will suspect and send jets.

It could shadow a bigger plane like A380 but very difficult to survive under wake turbulence. May be for few minutes let alone 4 hours. It works only in Hollywood.

Quoting KIAS (Reply 3):
What point in the flight are people claiming the plane went to 45,000ft? Because at the point of disappearance it was too heavy to do so.

This is according to WSJ thru their source, just after losing contact. Even if it climbed to 45,000 (probably cannot) they also claim it dropped to 20,000 in one minute. No one is believing that information.
 
brilondon
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 4):

Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.

Would they have not indicated they were in an emergency situation before deviating their course?
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting nm2582 (Reply 243):

This theory suits well to overall arrangement of this story, it doesn't look alien to other things we know about MH370. But that means that same trick is possible on daily basis- you get a smaller warplane and fly in the night with passenger jet for cover, and radars see you as one point. How we haven't heard of such things before, I wonder...
 
oly720man
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
It could shadow a bigger plane like A380 but very difficult to survive under wake turbulence. May be for few minutes let alone 4 hours.

Two large aircraft can fly in close formation (air to air refuelling) with the trailing aircraft below the leading aircraft, but the concentration required, the lack of visual reference and the unpredictability of the leading aircraft (changes in speed, direction and altitude) would make it impossible to maintain at night for one aircraft just shadowing another for a sustained period of time.
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747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:00 pm

Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia? Among all the possibilities of the aircraft landing at some place that is the highest possiblity. Any other place other than some remote jungle strip in Burma would be next to impossible given the tightly monitored air space and population density.
 
jcxroberts
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:01 pm

https://twitter.com/JonahFisher/status/444754310677553153

Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:01 pm

The accident theories just strain all credibility.

I guess it would somehow be more "comforting" (not really the right word, but there's none better) if it were an accident, in the same way some people find it more comforting to think that 9/11 was some kind of inside job. It makes it seem less like a few random people have the power to end peoples' lives and dramatically change the world in the process. But the fact is, they do.

If you can look at the available evidence and conclude that this was a 7 hour long accidental emergency, well... I don't really know what to say to that. It defies any sort of logic. And it's not what any of the investigators seem to think either. The language the Malaysian PM used was clear. And of course we have the earlier leaks to the press from Malaysian investigators that were even more definitive. And there's never been a 7 hour long accident, that I know of.

Is an accident still *possible*? Well, sure, theoretically, in the same way it's theoretically possible that when you walk into a wall, you will go right through it. The laws of physics say there is a tiny but non-zero chance that that could happen. But I sure wouldn't put money on it.

An accident would have to be such an amazing confluence of events the likes of which we have never seen before that a plain old hijacking is much, much more likely. Hijackings happen all the time, even today. The only real difference here is that whoever pulled this one off did their best to hide it, and we still don't know where this plane or the passengers on it are.
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B-HOP
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Would Somila make senses, fuel a 5 hour flight with 7.5 hours, that raise question mark. Despite the poor visbility in BJS (around 3000m) and might bar the FO to land, Captain as an examiner and training captain would be able to land there, since only he can sign the fuel sheet, if FO put an extra 2 hours worth of fuel, the captain could refuse, his family left is yet another red flag. Although the FO weren't clear yet but I would think he noticed somthing, they might fight over control after transponder and Acars shut. Meanwhile, the unknown particpant control the plane before dinner time when the crew are at their busiest or might even entered the cockpit threathen the crew. Given how lax the border controls are, it could well be easy to sneak in some 'tools' on catering carts, has each person whom have involved in the flight before it left interviewed and re-cleared by security? A China flight were chosen may or may not do with recen attack in Kunmming, but as it provide less risk, at the same time 4 777 leaves for BJS, FRA, AMS and NRT, FRA and AMS have 4 crews and NRT flights US would intercept them by Phillipines (from Guam) beside racial tenison in Malaysia. I don't see the target being the twin tower in KL, at least not in a weekend night.

For Somila, a flight from near Penang to Somalia would be well within the range of the aircraft given it has endurance http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PA ... P-STYLE=&ETOPS=180. Some fiddling for exit from air routes from last way point, would still be around 6500km, arrive Somila in the middle of the night, park in a hanger. Once it has been kitted out in Somila, it can head though Sudan (lawless area), Libya (another lawless area)exit Libya airspace it would be Italy and Western Europe, you guess the rest, Somila and some of these desert countries have no radar coverage and relies on position report filed on mixed report place, simply not report a plane takes off would be enough to take it at least to Italy. Beside, if empty, it has range for US. That is my guess, just hope whether strange pop up in airports around those countries.

RR would surely monitor those engines relentlessly before anything turned up.

Kev
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capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
https://twitter.com/JonahFisher/status/444754310677553153

Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)

this will get interesting if everybody start following this lead, will there be a make shift runway no one knows about at the border??
 
SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia?

We don't know because they haven't released the ACTUAL fuel numbers. In theory if it were just fueled for PEK, then no, I don't think it could make it Somalia. But whether more fuel was put in at pilots discretion is still a mystery.

Also, I think your theory is valid, just improbable because I would imagine landing in Somalia, someone would have seen and said something. I think Iran or China or somewhere in the "-Stans" makes more sense.

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:10:33]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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zeke
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Some misinformation in previous threads

ACARS is a air-ground network provided by SITA, many devices on the aircraft will talk to the ACARS management unit, and that unit will work out how to route the message. There are many ground based gateways to the ACARS network, airlines, manufacturers, and ATC.

To disconnect from the ACARS network, pilots do not need to pull a circuit breaker.

ACARS is not a health monitoring system..

Satcom provides data and voice to the aircraft, most long range airliners have one data channel and two voice channels, these are connected via a large surf board shaped antenna on the crown of the aircraft to Inmarsat stationary satellites. Onboard the aircraft there is a box that drives the antenna using the aircraft position from the IRS/GPS to know which satellite to point to.

The voice channels are used in the cabin and cockpit to make phone calls, the cabin phones can be disabled from the cockpit without pulling circuit breakers. The data channel is only active if there is an application using the network.

What Inmarsat is seeing is the time it has taken to do a handshake from the satellite to the aircraft and back again. The satellite is in a fixed position in a stationary orbit, so the time it takes to do this handshake can be used to work out the radius of a sphere around the satellite of a given distance, that distance is the speed of light/ handshake timex0.5. Where that sphere intersects with earth, it generates a small circle.
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border. (BBC Reporter)

Which is what I have been asking since Post 11. I will be following this closely.

EDITED for correct post number.

Also, it looks like he is pulling back from that statement a bit now.

Quote:
Jonah Fisher ‏@JonahFisher 3h
Further to earlier tweet on plane location. Officials were cross referencing ping data with how far MH370 could fly in 7hrs.


[Edited 2014-03-15 11:16:57]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
rebr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 11):
most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border

If this turns out to be true, then there is something wrong with the air defense of some countries.... I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:13 pm

Maybe now it's not Malaysia that is hiding something, most likely now China is!!! if anything to do Kyrgyz/china border and the vast chinese desert
 
PA515
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:14 pm

Malaysian's KUL-PEK 0035/0630 has had the flight number changed to MH318.

PA515
 
Slcpilot
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:16 pm

What land is there on the southern arc? St. Paul Island? What else matches the flying time?

Previous question unanswered... Do the rafts/slides have ELTs?

SLCPilot
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chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:16 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 4):


Also, for what it's worth, a "deliberate" deviation does not necessarily imply a hijacking. The course of the plane (and even disabling of systems) may have been intentional, but could have been in reaction to some kind of emergency.

I believe they specifically said the disapperanace was deliberate, not just the deviation.
 
SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting rebr (Reply 18):
If this turns out to be true, then there is something wrong with the air defense of some countries.... I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...

Myanmar and then it's pretty much all China from there.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
wjcandee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:21 pm

I'm not yet persuaded by the altitude data or the "arc" data. If we're talking 7 hours, we're talking the opportunity to travel to Eastern Iran, Oman, Yemen, even Somalia.

Even when they were saying 4.5 hours, a big terrorism expert kept saying to look in eastern Iran, I guess recognizing that that would be a very interesting destination. Iran has much better air defense than, say, Somalia, but if the gov't were involved...
 
KIAS
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 22):
I believe they specifically said the disapperanace was deliberate, not just the deviation

Sure, it's been said. But there have been several retractions and conflicting reports. Hard to tell what is accurate at this point.
"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:25 pm

a ? can u get a cloned ACARS system in China and put in different infos in ad hoc situation?, can it be portable?, plane came out fresh from maintenance, cargo not screened or/and unknown, after vanishing, will it be possible to turn off comms and proceed with # acars into china desert to the border with Kyrgyzstan????

so many things and so many scenarios??
 
nm2582
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting oly720man (Reply 9):
Two large aircraft can fly in close formation (air to air refuelling) with the trailing aircraft below the leading aircraft, but the concentration required, the lack of visual reference and the unpredictability of the leading aircraft (changes in speed, direction and altitude) would make it impossible to maintain at night for one aircraft just shadowing another for a sustained period of time.

Agreed 100% it would require concentration.

Leading aircraft should be "relatively" predictable - you can study their flight path from prior flights and deduce a probable flight path for the incident flight. You can monitor ATC for any requests for altitude changes etc.

If the people responsible did their homework, they could likely identify points along the route where it's critical to be close, and points where they can relax; we're not talking about 5 hours straight ultra-precision formation flying.

I'm certainly not saying it would be easy - but it only had to work once, and knowing what they had to do ahead of time would have given them time to figure out how to do it and practice/plan.
 
rebr
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 23):
Myanmar and then it's pretty much all China from there.

Myanmar borders to India on the west side of the country....It needs quite some fuel if it's gonna fly around that part of India and then still make it to West China.
 
chaseus1
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting KIAS (Reply 25):
Sure, it's been said. But there have been several retractions and conflicting reports. Hard to tell what is accurate at this point.

I fully understand. I just think that was well thought out wording.... as they talked about independent reviews of data by different groups with the same conclusions.
 
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Owleye
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:27 pm

Presumably none of the passengers succeeded to make a successful phonecall during the flight. But how about text message, how is that working?
 
FlyHossD
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:31 pm

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 21):
Previous question unanswered... Do the rafts/slides have ELTs?

Yes - at least ours did and we were trained how to activate them. I don't know how MH equipped their rafts.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
Would Somila make senses
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 24):
I'm not yet persuaded by the altitude data or the "arc" data. If we're talking 7 hours, we're talking the opportunity to travel to Eastern Iran, Oman, Yemen, even Somalia

I don't know, Somalia is almost 3400nm from where the ATC lost contact with them
and it is almost an eight hour flight if they fly at a speed of 430knots.

They also would have to fly past BTJ and CBD (Car Nicobar, Indian AF base) two places where
there should be radars surveying the airspace if they wanted to fly to Mogadishu.
Sure they could perhaps have evaded them but did they have enough fuel for that
and still reach MGQ?

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:35:23]
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SuseJ772
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting rebr (Reply 28):
.It needs quite some fuel if it's gonna fly around that part of India and then still make it to West China.

#1 We don't know what fuel it actually had, because they haven't released that information.

And #2 - my theory was always northern China anyways due to the Gizmodo article about hidden desert airports, which according to this SkyVector map, it would have had enough fuel: http://skyvector.com/?ll=25.249995613911796,103.28906248998473&...WM.GIVAL:F.VO.IGREX:G.40.488966,93.50004

EDITED: becuase the auto-format jacked up the link.

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:38:35]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 31):
Yes - at least ours did and we were trained how to activate them. I don't know how MH equipped their rafts.

In one of the earlier threads it was mentioned that at least one portable ELT must be available.

I don't know if it is connected to the life raft, though.


David
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slinky09
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
RR would surely monitor those engines relentlessly before anything turned up.

Please note that RR have confirmed to the Malay authorities that they received two ACARS meesages during take off and the early part of the flight only. Nothing else after ACARS was turned off.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia? Among all the possibilities of the aircraft landing at some place that is the highest possiblity. Any other place other than some remote jungle strip in Burma would be next to impossible given the tightly monitored air space and population density.

There's a lot of conjecture about Somalia for obvious reasons, but no one is looking there because there's no evidence or supposition that it needs to be under consideration. It may also be a leap of faith to believe that Somalian pirates have the capability to do this.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 21):
Previous question unanswered... Do the rafts/slides have ELTs?

I believe yes - although a more knowledgeable person should confirm?

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 21):
What land is there on the southern arc? St. Paul Island? What else matches the flying time?

Cocos or Keeling Islands, but that's well monitored by Australia, then the Isle Amsterdam, but there's no airstrip there.

Quoting rebr (Reply 18):
If this turns out to be true, then there is something wrong with the air defense of some countries.... I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...

There are some rumours that the Indian monitoring systems on the Andaman Islands are not always switched on, and I don't see Myanmar as having anything sophisticated.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 24):
Even when they were saying 4.5 hours, a big terrorism expert kept saying to look in eastern Iran

You're not the first to suggest that.
 
capri
Posts: 499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:38 pm

after they claimed It flight flew back to Malacca Strait, it cld have went up in the hand over line between Thailand and India radars and they both assumed the other one is looking after it,entered Burma and from there on to NW China, unless the reason they deviate they might have had accomplices working in certain radars to cover them up if its a really well thought group of hijackers
 
coolian2
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 35):
There's a lot of conjecture about Somalia for obvious reasons, but no one is looking there because there's no evidence or supposition that it needs to be under consideration. It may also be a leap of faith to believe that Somalian pirates have the capability to do this.

Given their historical tactic is show up by chance with guns, I can only discount Somalia.

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:41:19]
In the interests of polite discourse, my signature has been updated.

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crippit
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:39 pm

Most likely if it did keep on flying then the passengers were unaware that it was off course, they had settled in for a 5 hour flight. The cabin crew could even have been unaware if this was the action of the flight crew? I imagine that there is the ability to turn off the map feature for the IFE? or to simply disable the IFE?
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Does anyone know if the aircraft had range to skirt India South of Sri Lanka out of range of any Indian radar and then head into Somalia?

The 772 has fuel tanks to fly three times the planned KUL-PEK route; we simply haven't heard how much fuel was loaded on this particular flight.

Quoting rebr (Reply 18):
I still doubt an aircraft this size can cross India or Bangladesh unseen...

Unless it was shadowing another flight. Per recent discussion, this requires knowledge and skill, but so does flying a plane normally.

The shadowing theory could explain the apparent zigzag west of the Malay peninsula; given the variations in exact departure time that happen on any flight on any day, this might have been necessary to make the initial rendezvous.

Someone pointed out that it was risky to hijack (whoever did it) and intercept given the potential for delays to MH370 or the intercepted flights; surely the hijackers would have known about multiple shadowing options if shadowing is in fact what they did. The fact that MH370's normal path crosses the paths of night flights going from the Far East to Europe via Southwest Asia (near Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, etc.) could explain why this flight might have been chosen - again, either by outside hijackers or by company pilots who could bid for the route.

Not knowing the fuel load, and given the plausibility of shadowing to avoid radar detection, it seems to me that this plane could have come down (intact or not) anywhere in a wide range of land and sea. Simply searching seems unlikely to locate it; any break will have to come through intelligence or other surveillance or lucky breaks.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:41 pm

The interesting thing is during the presser, they said they for sure know ACARS was turned off somewhere off the east coast. Now, we know that they only had RR EHM over SATCOM (edit - or wait, were the EHM ACARS sent over VHF? Do we know this?), and once they reached cruise they would not have expected another transmission until landing. But, apparently they did subscribe to the AHM over VHF, but a basic form where transmissions were periodic and batched. How do they know that ACARS was disabled (by disallowing it to transmit on all 3 downlinks)? My theory is that the radar track shows them well within SITA's VHF ground stations' range at the time that a routine transmission would have been made (overflying the Malaysian peninsula), which implies that at least ACARS over VHF was disabled.

Does that sound correct? How else could they know for sure that ACARS transmissions were suppressed?

[Edited 2014-03-15 11:45:08]
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 35):
I believe yes - although a more knowledgeable person should confirm?

All of the slides have ELTs. They are not G-enabled, they have to be activated manually.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting Owleye (Reply 30):
Presumably none of the passengers succeeded to make a successful phonecall during the flight. But how about text message, how is that working?

Like phone calls, text messages require access to the cell network, which requires being over land with cell coverage.

The only land they might have crossed was the Malay peninsula, which is thin and quick to get across. At that point, we can't be sure that passengers would have had a clue anything was wrong. The moving map could be disabled, or an announcement could be made that they were changing course due to weather, or whatever. If I were on a longhaul flight, it would take a lot more than that to get me to take my phone out of airplane mode in flight - if I were even awake enough to notice.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
Now that this is public information, and IF the a/c is in a hangar waiting to be used by terrorists, guess what? First thing the terrorist will do is to disable the satellite transmitters for those engines!

Let's check the airliners.net user list against anybody who might be connected to MH370.

...they could be reading here. 

But still - to KNOW that the 777 continuously pings to INMARSAT is quite a feat, even if no messages are transmitted. In my six years lurking/writing on a.nut I've never learnt this.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
sbkom
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
RR would surely monitor those engines relentlessly before anything turned up

Now that this is public information, and IF the a/c is in a hangar waiting to be used by terrorists, guess what? First thing the terrorist will do is to disable the satellite transmitters for those engines!
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:04 pm

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/wo...airlines-pilot-profiles/index.html

This attracted my attention


Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah
Police have been outside his Malaysia home every day since the plane vanished, a source told CNN. But they have not gone inside.
If they did, they might find a flight simulator there. In a YouTube video he apparently posted, Zaharie can be seen sitting in front of one.
And in a German online forum for simulator enthusiasts, X-Sim.de, there is a post from November 2012 in his name that says he built it himself.
"About a month ago I finish assembly of FSX and FS9 with 6 monitors." The message was signed Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah BOEING 777 MALAYSIA AIRLINES.
FSX and FS9 are over-the-counter flight simulator games made by Microsoft.
On Friday, the CEO of Malaysia Airlines said that everyone is allowed to pursue their hobbies.
Zaharie, a pilot with 18,365 flight hours under his belt, is reportedly also a flight instructor.

Correct if i am wrong, and i am not accusing anybody here, a pilot with so many flying hours i am sure his hobby should be something far from his actual job, building such an advance and expensive flight simulator looks a little strange to me. Again i might be wrong.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:06 pm

The consensus is that she has landed somewhere, which I first thought was outlandish as much as the science-fiction based alien abduction theories. Now, I think it is the most likely answer to where the aircraft is. The big question is, where did it land, is this a new for of piracy, or is the a sophisticated Al Qaeda operation, or, is this something a foreign government conspired to do I.e. Iran?
 
slinky09
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:07 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 46):
Correct if i am wrong, and i am not accusing anybody here, a pilot with so many flying hours i am sure his hobby should be something far from his actual job, building such an advance and expensive flight simulator looks a little strange to me. Again i might be wrong.

This has been mentioined over and over again. Many have said that it is typical for pilots to enjoy time on sims and there is nothing unusual in it. Others have commented that as an investigatory act to elimiinate the caption from suspicion, it would have been prudent to investigate what he'd been doing on his sim.

Do date, there is nothing to suggest foul play in regard to this.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting sbkom (Reply 45):
Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
RR would surely monitor those engines relentlessly before anything turned up

Now that this is public information, and IF the a/c is in a hangar waiting to be used by terrorists, guess what? First thing the terrorist will do is to disable the satellite transmitters for those engines!

The idea the a/c was "stolen" to be used as a terrorist device is too far feteched to be credible. A hijacking by terrorists to promote their cause makes sense.

It's now up to the U.S., China (if they don't have the a/c already) and other nations in the area to search all land areas in that northern arc.

There is very little on the southern arc island wise to search.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 49):
It's now up to the U.S., China (if they don't have the a/c already) and other nations in the area to search all land areas in that northern arc.

Or if they want to actually find the aircraft they should go look around Indian Ocean.

I just can't believe the theories about the aircraft following some other flight to stay away from radar. I'm fairly convinced they flew somewhere with minimum radar coverage, like the huge area of water called "Indian Ocean".

[Edited 2014-03-15 12:15:14]
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
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