jetblueguy22
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:08 am

Due to length part 27 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 28.

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline



************************************************************************************************


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[Edited 2014-03-15 19:12:32]
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aftgaffe
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:12 am

Quoting BridYYC (Reply 341):
My understanding was the good night message came a short while (12 minutes or something) after ACARS was switched off. Since we know the plane flew for hours after, I would think that any depressurization that might have occurred would have after the final communication. There's no reason I can think of that it would have occurred in that 12(?) minute window.

The reason I was suggesting the depressurization might have occurred / begun before the lass comm with ATC was because there seems to be a consensus that ACARS was turned off 12 minutes before the transponder. Why not turn them off together? One reason might have been that he wanted to begin depressurizing (which ACARS would report, I believe) before he wanted to disappear from secondary radar (which was the point immediately after the last comm with ATC).

Could be other explanations - just airing that one.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:15 am

could there be on the plane people not on the manifest that are oh high interest to someone and with a high value?
 
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hotelbravo
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:19 am

If both pilots are disabled (or disable each other) on the flight deck with the cockpit door locked, is there any way for FAs or pax to gain access or would the plane be doomed to run out of fuel?
 
snowjob
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:19 am

RE: nupogodi (Reply 339) in thread 27:

I sure hope so....since I've had MSFS since 1983 (floppy disk on my Commodore 64) and still play around with my FSX (on a much better system, mind you) 31 years later. So G_d forbid i'm ever in a catastrophic and mysterious aviation event and this post comes back to haunt me.

Should they vigorously pursue every lead and angle? Absolutely. In fact, I want to believe that behind the scenes and out of the public eye they have been doing just that. And, in deference to the Malaysians, it's mostly people here who are making the political connection and not (at least publicly) the Malaysian government. No offence people here.

I guess -- and in all fairness I don't know the true political temperature in Malaysia right now -- that the internal and personal political passions of the pilots become another thing I simply don't want to worry about while flying. How many pilots in our own sphere, on any given day, may be pissed off at Harper or Obama or Brown or Merkel or Hollande? Even on the micro level of federal government involvement in labour disputes?
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 4):

they are humans and before they become pilots they are also members of the public, so they are affected by politics too
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:28 am

Quoting hotelbravo (Reply 3):

If both pilots are disabled (or disable each other) on the flight deck with the cockpit door locked, is there any way for FAs or pax to gain access or would the plane be doomed to run out of fuel?

Given time, you might be able to get through the door. It's armored but it's not exactly like a bank vault.

On a plane of that size there would be at least one crash axe in the cabin, plus the fire extinguishers which you can bash with. You could probably scrounge up some tools.



From previous thread:

Nupogodi: I have to say, I'm quite amused at all the people in this thread that think cell phones work in the flight levels. "Why didn't they call anyone?!" Let me thiiiiiiiink.

Answer: Indeed. I would often have difficulty picking up a cell signal at 3000ft in a Cessna 172 at 100 knots while flying over towns in Florida. Contrast with MH370 which was at 35000ft in a 777 (more shielding) at 400knots over the ocean.


fooflyboy: Is [the ELT] accessible from the cabin in any way do you know?

Answer: AFAIK ot would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.


ikrameriak: Flight simulators don't hijack planes. People hijack planes. But you can use a flight sim to plan it...

Answer: Yes. Conversely though, you don't actually need a flight simulator to plan it. An iPad and ForeFlight or equivalent is fine. Or Skyvector.com.


777Jet: But would he be able to work out how to fly without being traced? Things like that... Would he be able to work out the different effects on radar, etc. after turning off the transponder or pulling the breaker in the EE bay?

Answer: No, that would not be possible in MS Flight Simulator. For that matter it probably wouldn't be possible in a full blown full motion sim. To simulate that kind of stuff you probably have to have access to military data, and from different countries to boot. I suppose he could have looked at a map of radar coverage but that only gives you "commercial" and publicly known radar coverage. Air defense radar capabilities tend not to be publicized.

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:31:55]

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:41:54]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:29 am

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 4):
How many pilots in our own sphere, on any given day, may be pissed off at Harper or Obama or Brown or Merkel or Hollande?

Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
snowjob
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting capri (Reply 5):
they are humans and before they become pilots they are also members of the public, so they are affected by politics too

True enough. I suppose my comment is based on (1) no prior incidents (as far as I'm aware) in which a larger political motive against the home country or home government of the pilot was the motive and (2) my personal desire not to have to worry about this in the grand scheme of aviation safety.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:31 am

of all we know it could even came back and landed in KUL and no one knows a thing, this is getting reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally fishy
 
passenger8170
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:32 am

The cargo angle feels weak to me. Why would any nation or terrorist group want to get on the wrong side of China? Remember, that plane was full of Chinese citizens. What do the hijackers intend to do--take the cargo and send back the passengers? Well, it's been a week and I haven't heard about the passengers being dropped off anywhere.

Except for its own internal terrorist issues, China has pretty much stayed out of the global hunting of terrorists. Why get China involved by kidnapping 150 of its citizens? Plus, although I wouldn't call them allies, China and Iran do business together. China is friends with North Korea. The Norks have helped Iran with its nuclear project. It doesn't make any sense.

Now, if that plane was full of Americans, or Israelis, I could understand. But Chinese? It seems that would be opening a whole new can of worms for whoever took the plane.

Even if it's the Uighurs (or however you spell their name), I'm sure China has spies all over that region of their country--especially considering the recent knife attack, somebody would've heard something by now. The story is too big, there are so many nations involved, lots of countries spending their own cash to finance the search effort, etc. In addition, if we've thought of it on here, I'm sure the Chinese Government has thought of it as well. I'm sure they are mining every informant they have trying to find out if the Uighurs did it. And I think they would've heard something by now.

In fact, bizarrely, the country with the best reason to hijack a plane with Chinese on it right now is Japan due to the disagreement the two countries are having over those islands.

Okay, so some kind of "terrorist" group hijacked the plane or paid one of the pilots to hijack it, the jet eventually landed on land controlled by some country out there. And I gotta believe that that country--Iran, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, etc.--would've known by now and fessed up. Once again, the last thing any of these countries wanna do--whether they had anything to do with it or not--is get on the wrong side of China. It's in any of their best interests to clear their names as quickly as possible.
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:32 am

Hello all,

I missed it at the last thread as it is now too long, so I am reposting. I have a few questions and some comments. I would really appreciate if some attempts can be made to answer my questions.

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 13):
only he can sign the fuel sheet, if FO put an extra 2 hours worth of fuel, the captain could refuse

What would it take to conceal and falsify the actual amount of fuel the aircraft was fueled with from the airline? Would it be the captain and one other person?

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 66):
We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.

If let's say all passengers died on the plane from deliberate hypoxia (depressurization), but a few cell phones of 239 aboard were never turned off, is it possible that the authorities have picked up the roaming of those phones (assuming the plane is hijacked)?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 79):
The idea of someone using the aircraft as a weapon is rather absurd. If someone is powerful enough to organize a hijack like this surely buying some old jetliner as a fake start up airline shouldn't be too much of a problem.

But the aw and shock of using the same 777 that disappeared magnifies the impact terror. The fact that having a pilot as a conspirator from the get-go, and having the best technology to pull off the final weapon delivery make sense. Any comments?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 120):
If terrorists were behind this they would've most definitely used the plane already for whatever purposes they wanted to use it. Waiting would only increase risks.

Agree. But what if their perfect plan now has holes? The fact that the satellite pings now tell us the airplane flew 7 more hours now changes the dynamics. The terrorists now know that this airplane is being sought for by several countries. Air defense systems are in higher alert. So they have no choicse but to wait. Comments?

Quoting capri (Reply 133):
If it was really a pilot suicide why he couldn't bid for a more favourable and remote route to do so, so he can't be discovered, why choose a congested route, then all these turns and zig zags and such

Agreed

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 192):
It is highly likely the pilot was not even aware of SATCOM pings/keep-alives. This is a low-level detail about how networking works. I think many professionals were surprised to learn this week about SATCOM's constant contact.

And this is why I believe their perfect plan missed one small detail (the SATCOM was still pinging). Does anyone know if there are seatback phones for the pax in this 777 with satellite service? If so, is it a different unit than the one the crew use? If there is such a pax unit, it would be interesting to know if/when it too was turned off.
Only the paranoid survive
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:34 am

The only thing that makes sense is that it landed somewhere. Pilot suicide makes no sense. Every action seems choreographed, well planned, and probably has people involved that weren't even on the aircraft. Unites States intelligence is hinting that the pilots may have gone rogue. This is definitely not a lone-wolf operation...there was something to be gained by someone. I think the captain's wife needs to be thoroughly interrogated, she will know something if the Captain intended on anything where he wouldn't be coming home anymore. We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc. Now, good psychological profiling and detective work of the pilots, crew, and passengers will be all that leads to where this aircraft is, and what happened. Billions of dollars of U.S. Naval hardware is combing the seas with the most high tech, classified SONAR, and so far, empty-handed. If we aren't aggressively searching every airports within range, we aren't doing enough. The satellite data has provided us a circle, not a triangulated position, of possible routes that appears to cover an entire hemisphere.
 
snowjob
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:37 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 8):
Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.

It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.
 
ranold76
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:37 am

If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc

agreed, me too from beginning I thought all these non sense about ACARS and pings and Satcom were a well calculated decoys and the slow process from Malaysian government, and not checking pilots home until a week later, this is more of what we think it is, it will end up a high profile security/ military/espionage thing
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:43 am

Quoting capri (Reply 10):
of all we know it could even came back and landed in KUL and no one knows a thing, this is getting reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally fishy

It's not like a MH 777 landing at KUL would be strange or make the news...

The only thing I would be prepared to rule out at this stage is a Pam Am 103 type event or structural failure as no wreckage has been found, but then again, it could have been blown up later on in the flight to where ever... All I'm suggesting is that the plane did not break up around the area where the transponder stopped and ATC communication was lost.
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EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:43 am

CaliAtenza - a destination such as Iran comes close to the 3,675 mileage quoted by flyingwithfish. In addition, based on what he said, this is one destination where the plane will be difficult for international authorities to locate and Iran would be able to use the "cargo" on the plane to suit their needs.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:43 am

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 15):
If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.

You might want to if you want to avoid getting intercepted and don't want the wreckage to be found. A grim thought, but explains the flight path assuming they went south.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
fooflyboy
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:44 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
AFAIK it would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.

So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc.

Why?

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
This is definitely not a lone-wolf operation
Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
Pilot suicide makes no sense.
Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
The only thing that makes sense is that it landed somewhere.

None of these suppositions have any evidence to support them.

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 15):

If you're in Malaysia, being on a planet with 80% water, you don't need to fly 6-7 hours to commit suicide in deep water. You may need to fly 6-7 hours to reach a specific spot....suicide or not.

Depends how badly you want the plane to disappear. If you fly 6 hours into the southern Indian Ocean and then ditch, that plane would be very very hard to find.

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 14):

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 8):
Our political reality (in Canada, re: Harper) is... a little different, to say the least.

It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.

Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ikramerica
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:47 am

Quoting Snowjob (Reply 14):
It most certainly is. I would never presume to judge the citizens of a non-Western, non-democratic country and their trials and tribulations and frustrations. I know how lucky we are.

True, but his rant about remodeling his house sure sounds like a typical day as a contractor in Southern California...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:47 am

Quoting capri (Reply 16):

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
We need to stop the talk on ACARS, transponder, range, etc

agreed, me too from beginning I thought all these non sense about ACARS and pings and Satcom were a well calculated decoys and the slow process from Malaysian government, and not checking pilots home until a week later, this is more of what we think it is, it will end up a high profile security/ military/espionage thing

After AF447 and MH370, nobody will ever stop talking about ACARS when a flight gets lost in the flight levels. I think that's a good thing.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:48 am

where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??
 
YVRLTN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting davidzill (Reply 13):
I think the captain's wife needs to be thoroughly interrogated,

I saw in the tweets on the flyingwithfish guys feed he was asked to verify the pilots wife left him a day prior to the flight.

Quoting passenger8170 (Reply 11):
The cargo angle feels weak to me

I would tend to agree, but Im not going to repost what I put at the end of the last thread, but this flyingwithfish guy does seem to have some credibility and he is very much focused on cargo. And it does seem an odd coincidence the x-ray machine was conveniently inop at the time, yet this flight alone leaves with cargo when others didnt. Again, I struggle to believe it myself, but this guy seems to think he has decent enough intel to suppose the plane is in Isfahan Iran right now...
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

It's not very democratic when you put the opposition leader in prison for an archaic law with flimsy evidence just to hold on to the power your party has enjoyed for decades... A 1-party system, so to speak... "Democracy" in title alone. But, I digress.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
tapir
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:51 am

Earlier report indicated that the last ping was over water. It wasn't clear if they meant by "the plane flew for hours..." or the "plane flew four hours....". The PM statement that the possibility of northern and southern corridor could be flight path from his stimulator laptop. Maybe, they are just guessing. My guess, with due respect to the family members, it probably crashed in far away place in the sea far from Malaysia's jurisdiction.

btw, is it possible to fly to Turkey without radar detection by other countries?
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):
So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

There have been cases where ELTs don't trigger, or are heavily damage.

It's unlikely, though.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
AFAIK it would be outside the pressure vessel somewhere behind the after pressure bulkhead so no.

So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

Actually no. The range on an ELT transmitter is only 20-30km IIRC so it can very easily be missed, especially if the wrong area is searched (as it was). Seeing as the battery runs out after a day or so, that's that.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ikramerica
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 361):


From Thread 27

It would be even easier than that. Buy an early 777-200ER for scrapping, and scrap it... Whole point of the scrapping is to remove all the high value components for re-use. Not a single person on this planet would look at the important bits being removed with care.

Varig had some for scrap. Heck, AI has 77Ls they don't want.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting capri (Reply 24):

where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??

The previous flight was HKG-KUL, and presumably the one before that was the reciprocal.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

It's not very democratic when you put the opposition leader in prison for an archaic law with flimsy evidence just to hold on to the power your party has enjoyed for decades... A 1-party system, so to speak... "Democracy" in title alone. But, I digress.

Fair point.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
timothy31388
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 26):

Agree with what you said.
TJJINDI
 
ikramerica
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 20):
So a crash on land is effectively ruled out then, correct? No way to disable the ELT, and we never heard it...

But what's the range? If it's shot down over China, the Chinese would be the ones locating the wreck, disabling the ELTs, cleaning it up as quickly as possible, and also confusing the search with false radar claims, false oil riq claims, false debris field claims, false undersea event claims.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 25):

but this flyingwithfish guy does seem to have some credibility and he is very much focused on cargo. And it does seem an odd coincidence the x-ray machine was conveniently inop at the time, yet this flight alone leaves with cargo when others didnt.

You are misinterpreting his use of the term "cargo". The cargo he is referring to may not be in the cargo section of the plane, but directly above it.

[Edited 2014-03-15 19:59:43]
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:57 am

So I'm watching CNN and some of the technical guests that they have on are confusing. Regarding the entrance to the avionics bay on the 777-200, is it only accessible from the cockpit? Or can it be accessed from the cargo hold or the cabin?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
snowjob
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:58 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Malaysia is a democracy. That isn't to say it doesn't have big political issues, but it is a democracy.

Did not mean to offend. I suppose my comparison to 'Western Democracies' was made in the context of the apparent issue of the pilot in question.
 
jelliesR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:58 am

his wife left him(?), his hope for more representative democracy was literally just ruled out of contention for years, if not decades, he was at the controls of the only thing that could ruin the subsequent days and weeks of the ruling party. It seems so straightforward an idea vs any theories that involve conspiracies of dozens if not hundreds of people..

he flew erratically over Malaysia perhaps hoping to provoke a fatal reaction by the airforce, or perhaps to head for deeper waters. The scenario sounds much more plausible than unknown persons with excellent 777 flight knowledge breaking down cockpit doors with nary a peep from either pilot, flying the plane to a secret base, possibly through many military radar emplacements, in order to steal as yet unknown cargo. From someone who is not willing to say they've lost something valuable.

I know the conspiracy theorists can have endless fun with the scenarios but one day a seat cushion will wash ashore somewhere and show that far from the plane being buried in the desert for its cargo or passengers, it hit the water.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 34):

does that mean his wife got something to do with it???
 
ranold76
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 19):
You might want to if you want to avoid getting intercepted and don't want the wreckage to be found. A grim thought, but explains the flight path assuming they went south.

Not if the water depth is similar at 2hrs from takeoff, than it is at 6hrs etc. That's IF depth was the objective.
Also, the INMARSAT arcs don't account for deviation from the arc before that ping set time period. Hypothetically, MH370 could have went out way into the Indian Ocean and turned back to the closet point on that arc to Malaysia at that ping point....likewise, it could've went up into remote western China.

I've stated what I think is likely possible in the previous thread.

Lastly, if INMARSAT can tell what arc it was on in the last ping, what arc was it on an hour earlier...and an hour earlier before that etc....that would give everyone better picture, imho.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:05:02]
 
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777Jet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:04 am

Quoting capri (Reply 24):
where was this plane before actual flight, does it have anything to do with the follow up flight?? its history disappeared from fr24??

KUL-DPS-KUL-BOM-KUL-DPS-KUL-DAC-KUL-HKG-KUL - - - - - - - - PEK


What about Bangladesh?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
 
YVRLTN
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 34):
You are misinterpreting his use of the term "cargo". The cargo he is referring to May not be on the cargo section of the plane, but directly above it.

I guess I am - please explain   

Anyway, does anyone have any idea who this guy is?
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
Actually no. The range on an ELT transmitter is only 20-30km IIRC so it can very easily be missed, especially if the wrong area is searched (as it was). Seeing as the battery runs out after a day or so, that's that.

Not true if they aren't using the oldest ELTs in existence even after everyone was told to phase out the older ones for years. Since 2009 the traditional ELTs are all useless and not sat monitored and shouldn't be used/purchased. The 20-30km range is for the homing signal that allows searchers to find it by direction finding. Most units even PLBs (Personal Emergency Locator Beacons) have both 406Mhz + GPS embdedded which are both monitored by sat.

At least in Canada, https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/certification/elt-65.htm

Any 406Mhz ELT will work and be detected by sat and ones with self reported positions will also have GPS locations.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 39):
Lastly, if INMARSAT can tell what arc it was on in the last ping, what arc was it on an hour earlier...and an hour earlier before that etc....that give you better picture, imho.

INMARSAT is not a geolocation satellite and the 777 is not equipped with an atomic clock, to my knowledge!  

All of this is back-calculating from what ever little data they know.

No doubt they have calculated the possible positions for every single data point. They have not shared them as of yet. All we know is what they shared for the last data point. And - to be fair - their map is being very generous with how thin that line is. Unless they're working some magic, the *width* of that arc could be fairly huge as well. All they know is "at that time, the aircraft could have been anywhere on these paths".

It's amazing they're able to get that much, to be honest.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
capri
Posts: 499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:08 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 40):
KUL-DPS-KUL-BOM-KUL-DPS-KUL-DAC-KUL-HKG-KUL - - - - - - - - PEK

how about flight number itself MH370 is it only KUL-PEK or it starts somewhere???
 
tomlee
Posts: 610
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:14 am

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 43):
INMARSAT is not a geolocation satellite and the 777 is not equipped with an atomic clock, to my knowledge!  

All of this is back-calculating from what ever little data they know.

No doubt they have calculated the possible positions for every single data point. They have not shared them as of yet. All we know is what they shared for the last data point. And - to be fair - their map is being very generous with how thin that line is. Unless they're working some magic, the *width* of that arc could be fairly huge as well. All they know is "at that time, the aircraft could have been anywhere on these paths".

It's amazing they're able to get that much, to be honest.

The search range is between/around those two points technically speaking and I doubt the points themselves are very accurate either. With only one (IOR) or two sats (IOR&POR) determining the position based on network data isn't going to even get close to a GPS or even 406Mhz type of localization. Inmarsat uses GPS normally if there is a problem and if all you have is the modem network registration keep alive packets (which usually just say keep-alive + a response from the network saying ok)

The line shown is the signal map of the IOR sat not the actual path they think it is on. They are likely using signal strength measures which put it anywhere along/around that line or falsely along the line if banked, weather, ionosphere, ...
 
difrano789
Posts: 29
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:19 am

Just to make clear of something, cell phones doesnt work at high altitudes because cell towers are designed for horizontal spread not vertical, its a waste of energy to send waves where nobody uses them. You can still catch some signal at 10.000 ft, but for sure not at FL300. Ussually when people use cellphones to call on incidents it is way bellow 30.000 ft.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:19 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):

I don't know the culture at Malaysian but even if all the pax were asleep the FAs presumably weren't. Would it be out of the ordinary for the cockpit crew to not talk to the FAs for 3-4 hours? You'd think the cabin crew would think something wasn't quite right enough to solicit help from the pax. Or, maybe not in this case if it flew for hours after the last handoff.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
undertheradar
Posts: 116
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):

'cargo' could be interpreted as the 'whole physical aircraft and ALL its contents..humans included..

and whoever this twit (oops tweet) guy is.....I hope they sleep well each night..
 
EricR
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:24 am

I would read his tweets and draw your own conclusion.

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:26:47]
 
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Dalavia
Posts: 406
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:24 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
Anyway, does anyone have any idea who this guy is?

His twitter page identifies him as follows:

Flying With Fish
@flyingwithfish
Steven Frischling-Travel Social Media Consultant; Aviation Security Expert; TweetASuite's Creator; Corporate Photog; Host of #TNI Twitter's Original Travel Chat
Live: GON - Work: The World · flyingwithfish.com

Apparently he has a history of breaking news from high level confidential sources, and his computers were raided by government officials some years ago in an attempt to identify his sources.

That suggests his connections are sound.

[Edited for spelling]

[Edited 2014-03-15 20:27:16]

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