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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:38 pm

Due to length part 31 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 32:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**********************************************************************************************


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

***********************************************************************************************


SOME IMPORTANT REMINDERS FOR ALL OUR MEMBERS TO CONSIDER BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD:

**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; please keep science fiction theories and content related to past / current movies or possible future movie rights out of these threads. ****

**** PLEASE DO NOT REPEAT QUESTIONS AND SCENARIOS THAT HAS BEEN COVERED AND DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS THREADS AND WHICH DO NOT CONTRIBUTE OR APPLY, IN A CONSTRUCTIVE MANNER, TOWARDS THIS CONVERSATION ANY LONGER. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Please check out the sanity check by [ rcair1 ]: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,
ManuCH
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:42 pm

Can radars check SIA 68 and at what point became 2 blips if really that theory makes any sense?

[ Edit Post ]
 
tomlee
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:43 pm

Quoting Dalavia (Reply 271):
Would lithium batteries be a similar density to gold?

Nope, lithium is an exceptionally light metal so light it is 36 times lighter than gold. (Wolfram Alpha is great for this stuff, https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=density+of+gold+divided+by+the+density+of+lithum )

http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-7911,00.html

Its why its such a wonderful battery material. (its also very reactive)
 
monjonman
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Exmouth is just a communications facility with lots of antennas ,nothing more.
 
David L
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Posted after the cut-off in Part 31:

Quote:
Quoting tomlee (Reply 259):
WSJ doesn't really have an advantage when they aren't very accurate.

You know that and I know that... but apparently many others don't.  

There have been allegations that the WSJ stories have "forced" the investigators to reveal information they weren't going to, which, of course, is pure speculation. I was addressing a pretty solid reason that the WSJ has been able to beat the press conferences to the punch.
 
PanHAM
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:55 pm

You cannot load 7 tons of Gold onto an aircraft without anyone asking questions and afterwards knowing about it.

That would be approx 3 pallets stacked 3 bars high at the most and in the Center. The only other airfreight I ever shipped was iron window shutters, a whole 707F with lots of room / hot air but fully loaded to the max weight.

On the average, air freight is between 5 and 6 times measuring, means, that ULD's or flats are usually loaded up to the permissible height.
powered by Eierlikör
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:59 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 220):

They are saying it was the F/O who said good night to ATC as the last voice comm.

I'm not sure why it matters. It doesn't tell us anything.
unqoute



It was after the Transponders were switched off, could mean the F/O is aware of the plan, not the Capt.
Or was he ok then.

[Edited 2014-03-17 06:02:47]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DeanDropshot
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:02 pm

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but would it be possible to jam the radio signals coming from the aircraft from within the plane itself?

If a radio jamming device for the right frequencies was smuggled onboard, would it be capable of jamming pilot radio, transponder, ACARS and mobile phone signals? And would it be able to do so without it being detected immediately by ATC or others using the same frequencies?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting DeanDropshot (Reply 7):

If a radio jamming device for the right frequencies was smuggled onboard, would it be capable of jamming pilot radio, transponder, ACARS and mobile phone signals? And would it be able to do so without it being detected immediately by ATC or others using the same frequencies?

Primary radar would detect the Aircraft.......What would not make the Pilots report the malfunction then if there was jamming occuring......

[Edited 2014-03-17 06:05:10]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
LTC8K6
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting DeanDropshot (Reply 7):

Seems unlikely since the device would be inside the plane whereas the plane's antennas are outside the plane.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:07 pm

Its seems like one crew member was involved with external help.or both crew members were in this, which looks tough.
was the cockpit sterile or did they allow visitors.......this looks like a planned ops to get the aircraft to some location.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:08 pm

In the previous thread there were people saying, "Don't be so hard on the Malaysian officials" etc after this recent presser.

I completely disagree with that. In *prepared* statements, one by the Prime Minister, they said they definitely know that ACARS was disabled outbound off the east coast, leading everyone with any sense to believe that this must have been a deliberate act by people who were in control of the aircraft at that time. This was widely reported as fact.

To renege on those statements and basically say the equivalent of "we don't know", they have once again shown gross incompetence. It is completely within reason to criticize them for that. Many people on this forum wondered, "how could they know that?" and I had to come up with a convoluted theory to resolve the cognitive dissonance. The fact that the people leading the press conference don't have their statements fact-checked by the (hopefully) professionals leading the investigation is just bizarre.

Things work a little differently down there, I'm sure, but I imagine they would have learned quickly how to control their message the first day that international media descended on them.

If anyone has any rational arguments as to why we should not criticize the Malaysian authorities, you are welcome to say so. But culture and inexperience are not valid defences; this is an international incident and they have some of the most experienced people in the world assisting.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
luganopirate
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:08 pm

I do believe if the plane had been crashed, some wreckage would have shown up by now. This leaves the theory that it's on land in one piece, which is my thinking as well though obviously I've nothing to back this up. So how do you hide a plane? Once on the ground and everything's turned off it's not that hard. There are plenty of remote and abandoned airfields in range and it's pretty quick to throw some camouflage over it.

But, all that would need some organisation and assistance from others, and that's quite hard to keep quiet. Also, how do you keep 200+ passengers quiet?

But let's look at the initial act and let's assume someone managed to enter the cockpit, or was already in there.

How many of us would know if the plane was going the right way or not? Sure, if you leave LCY for AMS on a clear day and you know the area, you'll quickly figure if you're going somewhere else. But at night, over the ocean, unless there's a flight display you'd not have a clue a left turn was anything out of the ordinary.

Likewise a climb to 45,000' is not a sudden manoeuvre. First, the max height for a 777 is I believe, 43,000' though it's possible I suppose it could go higher. Next, at cruise altitude, the rate of climb to FL430 would be no more than 1,000 ft / minute, hardly noticeable again and nothing out of the ordinary. The question is why would he do this?

So he's turned off the transponders, ADB-S and whatever else he can. How does he now avoid primary radar? From the radio he'll know what else is where, and he may have practiced this, with clear weather, he tucks in closely behind another commercial airliner and follows it over the border. MH370 would now be invisible. He then flies VFR to wherever he needs to go. Until now no-one on board will have a clue anything is out of the ordinary!

Well that's my tuppence worth on how it could be done. The why or the where, like everyone else I don't have a clue!!!
Do any pilots out there support that this could happen (not that it did, just that it could)?
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:09 pm

Quoting DeanDropshot (Reply 7):

Even if such device exists, it should be very likely a powerful thing and not likely permitted to hand luggage due to size restrictions. Thinking further, if it somehow was used, why pilots decided to fly away and not attempt to land? There are ELTs also on board which could be triggered for emergency...

[Edited 2014-03-17 06:15:22]
 
noflies
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:12 pm

In the event it landed somewhere, who's paying for the aircraft to be refuelled, if it's going elsewhere? If that's the plan, then surely it can't just be a few rogue hijackers with $30-50k to spare? Must be a rich individual or organisation, and it follows that more people on the ground have to know. I assume intelligence communities everywhere are on this.

It also makes me think that we are likely not being told things, whatever the scenario turns out to be. No one is going to say what their intelligence and investigative sources have come up with until the time is right.

Why hijack? To make demands (supposedly none made). To use the aircraft as a weapon (hasn't happened, yet). Joy ride? Why else? Consider motive and opportunity and it could make less sense the more time passes.

Then there's the issue of keeping passengers quiet, whatever was going on. A few possibilities there.

I know I'm just a noob here, so please forgive that.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting DeanDropshot (Reply 7):
If a radio jamming device for the right frequencies was smuggled onboard, would it be capable of jamming pilot radio, transponder, ACARS and mobile phone signals? And would it be able to do so without it being detected immediately by ATC or others using the same frequencies?

The aircraft has very powerful radios, it is not likely you could jam transmission with any kind of battery-powered device you could smuggle onboard. You would hear them repeatedly calling ATC asking for a response. You could likely stomp on incoming signals since you are in such close proximity to the receiver. That being said, the transponder would still send out a SSR return, most likely, since I don't see a portable device overpowering the ground station to such a degree.

You would have to jam a whole lot of frequencies with a whole lot of power, and while it's possible to build such a device I simply don't think the scenario is likely. Also, if the flight crew were in control the entire time, with all of those systems disabled, they would go and attempt to land.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 12):
I do believe if the plane had been crashed, some wreckage would have shown up by now.

False assumption, friend. It's a big ocean.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
aw70
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:15 pm

Something to think about:

- If the aircraft indeed landed in a controlled fashion somewhere, this was not only the work of a single person. If (huge if) it actually landed, and has not been found yet, people were waiting for it on the ground. And took care of making it, and the passengers, disappear for the time being.

- Which implies that some sort of organisation was/is behind all this.

- The sort of organisation willing and capable of pulling something like this off can be assumed to be fairly competent in technical matters. The sort of competent where people would know about satcom pings. After all, a considerable part of the planning seems to have gone into making the a/c disappear. Would an organisation aiming at pulling something like this off have missed that?

- What if they didn't actually miss it, and we just think they did? In particular, it would not be impossible to figure out the ID of the satcom equipment on MH370 ahead of time, completely shut down the satcom interface on the a/c once it has been taken over, and to send *fake* satcom pings from some other location as the whole episode unfolds. Reason for doing something like this: to send everyone on yet another hare-brained search in areas precisely where the a/c is not.

Reason for doing something like this as part of a plan: to avoid scrutiny of the area where the a/c actually ended up. Right now, all resources will be focused on the two arcs. I suppose that satellite imaging of suitable landing sites outside the arcs is currently not systematically done, as resources in that regard are finite for all players in this.
 
theaviator380
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 12):

Assuming it's intact in one piece somewhere, what will be motive behind keeping all quiet? when some one hijack plane they always have motive, either crash it on some valuable assets or demand something. In this case, neither happened so I don't see what's an intention behind this plot?
 
bennett123
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:24 pm

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/com...7family/pf/777_range_singapore.pdf

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/com...ercial/airports/acaps/777rsec3.pdf

For me, the scary thing is how wide a radius is possible.

Secondly, that it could have landed in about 6,000 feet, depending on fuel load.

Also, would you need a runway, or would a flat open space, like a salt pan be sufficient.
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 12):

I believe there would be a few passengers aboard awake and wondering why the flight over the dark sea takes so long and light of cities not appearing for so long. A lot of people would imagine approximate flight route, and there is not so much sea on it.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting aw70 (Reply 17):
- What if they didn't actually miss it, and we just think they did? In particular, it would not be impossible to figure out the ID of the satcom equipment on MH370 ahead of time, completely shut down the satcom interface on the a/c once it has been taken over, and to send *fake* satcom pings from some other location as the whole episode unfolds. Reason for doing something like this: to send everyone on yet another hare-brained search in areas precisely where the a/c is not.

It is extremely unlikely, the SATCOM modem (likely) has an identifier that is separate from the ICAO hex code of the transponder. They would need a maintenance person to get this data for them, to falsify the 'pings'. They would also need to somehow buy a device that can communicate with INMARSAT, change its identifier, .... it's all too much. Also using this kind of network traffic for geolocation is unprecedented (at least in all of the investigations I've read about) so I doubt anyone would really think of that, it's far too obscure.

You are talking about a massive conspiracy involving many people from different countries.

It's rubbish, IMO.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:28 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 19):
Secondly, that it could have landed in about 6,000 feet, depending on fuel load.

They could have landed in under 4500ft with minimal loading, that's with the 30% safety margin, moderate autobrake, and 50ft AGL over the threshold (your link says as much if you read the graphs).

Multiple 777 pilots have said here and elsewhere, if you're not heavily laden, and you don't mind damaging the aircraft, you could do it with no safety margin, maximum autobrake or manual braking, and plant it right on the threshold. Then you could get it in at a little over 3000ft. But you'd have to be mad, and there's almost no way you'd take off again.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 21):
You are talking about a massive conspiracy involving many people from different countries.

It's rubbish, IMO.

if this has anything to do with a heist or a certain "Cargo" am sure there are things going on behind the scenes to sort it out before it became public, no country so far confirmed or denied a second blip came out at some point along the routes of KL836 or SQ68 alleged theories

[Edited 2014-03-17 06:31:28]
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 19):

Requires concrete only. As was mentioned in previous threads, asphalt or even steel plates would mean the crash landing.
 
aw70
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 21):
You are talking about a massive conspiracy involving many people from different countries.

Yes, precisely. Either the pilot acted on his own, or there is exactly such a scheme behind this. If you pause to think about it for a second, there are hardly any other options.

Except that the conspiracy does not have to be "massive". A couple dozen highly motivated people with access to sufficient funding are all you would need.

And with regard to hacking of the satcom being "too hard": nope, I don't buy that. Of course, I am not saying it was actually done, but possible - yes. Due to the low bandwidth of these comms, and the time they have been around, the protocols have been stable for a long time. And are pretty much public knowledge. Getting a put-together hardware kit to pretend that it is some particular satcom device is not trivial: but far from impossible.

And you have to keep the #1 rule of non-trivial terrorism that is not driven by particular deadlines in mind: they only strike when they have everything sorted out. If your motives don't drive you to have a huge event exactly on, say, some particular religious or political holiday or some such, you are completely free to pick the date you strike on. Which could have been "the day that so-and-so finally gets the fake satcom to work".
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:43 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 24):
Requires concrete only. As was mentioned in previous threads, asphalt or even steel plates would mean the crash landing

if crash landed, are ELT signals transmitted through satellites and how far can they be detected???
and if it was in a remote area in the northern corridor, who will have interest not to respond to the SAR????
 
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Finn350
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:47 pm

CNN has quite a good timeline of the comm events regarding the MH 370 in one of its articles:

1.07 am - Last ACARS transmission
1.19 am - Last verbal communication "All right, good night" from the plane; believed to be the co-pilot
1.21 am - Transponder switched off
1.30 am - Civilian (primary) radar lost contact
1.37 am - Expected ACARS transmission; not received
2.15 am - Last military primary radar contact
8.11 am - Last (hourly) satellite handshake

Compiled from: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/17/wo...aysia-plane-up-to-speed/index.html

It seems that the foul play started just after 1.19 am in the cockpit.
 
nupogodi
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:48 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 26):
if crash landed, are ELT signals transmitted through satellites and how far can they be detected???

Yes, on the guard frequency and on 406MHz to satellites. It could be detected anywhere within MH370's range. The location would be triangulated. SAR responsible for the region in question would be notified. This has not occurred (that we know of...)
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
abba
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting aw70 (Reply 17):
The sort of organisation willing and capable of pulling something like this off can be assumed to be fairly competent in technical matters. The sort of competent where people would know about satcom pings. After all, a considerable part of the planning seems to have gone into making the a/c disappear. Would an organisation aiming at pulling something like this off have missed that?

If - IF - the plane is still intact I believe they must have missed the pings...

Quoting aw70 (Reply 17):
What if they didn't actually miss it, and we just think they did? In particular, it would not be impossible to figure out the ID of the satcom equipment on MH370 ahead of time, completely shut down the satcom interface on the a/c once it has been taken over, and to send *fake* satcom pings from some other location as the whole episode unfolds. Reason for doing something like this: to send everyone on yet another hare-brained search in areas precisely where the a/c is not.

The direction it went is the most likely if - IF - is was to land somewhere.
 
JHwk
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:02 pm

Quoting aw70 (Reply 25):
And with regard to hacking of the satcom being "too hard": nope, I don't buy that.

But everything else would be pilot knowledge; the pings are more network engineer knowledge. A pilot can get the plane to a specific location, and the skills needed from that point depend on the purpose of the hijack, ranging from zero to landing lights, fuel, tug, camouflage, thugs, etc.
 
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enilria
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:02 pm

tomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 260, posted Mon Mar 17 2014 08:26:16 your local time (1 hour 34 minutes 54 secs ago) and read 6550 times:

Problem with slurping up all of the internet is slurping up all the internet is going to capture so much data so quickly you have no chance of processing everything effectively.

They've had over a week to search their vast trove of internet data.
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:08 pm

Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 2m
From a DHS source, “based on a current intel briefing I feel confident saying we have a 75% chance of not finding a trace of #MH370”
 
Razza74
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:18 pm

It looks like the RAAF will start searching west of Perth on Tuesday
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...perth/story-fnizu68q-1226857475351
Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
 
SamH123
Posts: 17
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 32):
Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 2m
From a DHS source, “based on a current intel briefing I feel confident saying we have a 75% chance of not finding a trace of #MH370”

Has he changed his mind about the plane landing somewhere then...
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 2334
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 26):
if crash landed, are ELT signals transmitted through satellites and how far can they be detected???

Anywhere on earth.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 27):

CNN has quite a good timeline of the comm events regarding the MH 370 in one of its articles:

A similar graphic from AFP.:

Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
mham001
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:30 pm

If they landed the plane on some desolate airstrip, would it have still been dark and could the plane have landed on a dark airstrip?
 
Hywel
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:37 pm

Just a thought... what if the final satellite communication 7 hours later turns out to be another red herring... what if they made a mistake interpreting the data? We'd be back to square one with no idea of where to look next.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 37):

If they landed the plane on some desolate airstrip, would it have still been dark and could the plane have landed on a dark airstrip?

To hand fly the landing, you need some form of runway lights. To autoland, you need an ILS installation.

I can buy the lights, I suppose. You could use GPS to fly to a location and then perform a visual approach. Dicey if there is any terrain.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:40 pm

Okay, not sure if this has been brought up, but apparently the captain was a big supporter of the opposition and the FO was the son of a government bigwig.
Seems like a good enough motive, imho. No real need for further speculation.
Why not just kill the FO, well, this way, it makes the whole situation way more dramatic and mysterious.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 40):
Okay, not sure if this has been brought up, but apparently the captain was a big supporter of the opposition and the FO was the son of a government bigwig.
Seems like a good enough motive, imho. No real need for further speculation.
Why not just kill the FO, well, this way, it makes the whole situation way more dramatic and mysterious.

It has been brought up repeatedly.

At this point if you're not sure it has been brought up, 99.9% chance it has been brought up. 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 6):
It was after the Transponders were switched off, could mean the F/O is aware of the plan,

No, it was before the transponder was disabled.

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 11):
If anyone has any rational arguments as to why we should not criticize the Malaysian authorities, you are welcome to say so. But culture and inexperience are not valid defences; this is an international incident and they have some of the most experienced people in the world assisting.

Agreed. The whole ACARS was shut off before the last voice com thing has big implications for what actually happened. The reported info has confused me and I think a lot of other people and it should be such a simple thing for them to clarify.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
rosskin92
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:26 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:44 pm

I have a question to throw out.

How do we think this will affect Malaysian financially? And the future of the airline? They are already in a precarious financial state (I believe), and I am wondering if this will shake passenger confidence further? Or is it too early to ask this?
 
hivue
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 40):
Okay, not sure if this has been brought up,

At this point in this thread, if you're not sure something has been brought up it probably has -- several times.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
bonusonus
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:49 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:46 pm

Has anyone seen an analysis of ocean currents in the South Indian ocean? Where would we expect to see debris washing up if the plane truly did crash in the ocean. It's an extremely vast expanse, but the fact that zero debris was found, not even a life jacket or seat... that is one thing that keeps the possiblility alive that this craft somehow came down intact somewhere.
 
k83713
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 40):

I would imagine Mr. Shah rather having en-route conversations than solving political differences by murder of his opponent, passengers and himself. It's still a big step to admit that without any direct evidence. And en-route conversations by professional etiquette usually don't touch politics/religion issues anyway, as was mentioned before.

[Edited 2014-03-17 08:01:57]
 
hivue
Posts: 1618
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 45):
Where would we expect to see debris washing up if the plane truly did crash in the ocean.

You tell us where it "crashed" in a huge ocean and I'm sure someone can tell you where debris would have washed up on shore.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 2980
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Quoting Hywel (Reply 38):
Just a thought... what if the final satellite communication 7 hours later turns out to be another red herring... what if they made a mistake interpreting the data? We'd be back to square one with no idea of where to look next.

Very much possible. Even if it is not, the "arc" has an error of -59 Minutes to +59 Minutes fly time on top of whatever satellite signal error.

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 27):
1.37 am - Expected ACARS transmission; not received

Do we know what kind of transmission they were expecting? I thought next transmission would be at landing. Apologies if this has been already discussed.
 
liquidair
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:01 pm

RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 41):

yes, and i asked if there were any countries on that northern corridor that didn't have an extradition treaty with Malaysia...

the calls from the opposition in Malaysia for the PM to reveal any negotiations seems interesting.
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid

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