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jetblueguy22
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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:35 pm

Due to length part 32 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 33:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32 (by ManuCH Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

**********************************************************************************************


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

***********************************************************************************************


SOME IMPORTANT REMINDERS FOR ALL OUR MEMBERS TO CONSIDER BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD:

**** Out of respect to the crew, passengers and also family members; close to those onboard MH370; please keep science fiction theories and content related to past / current movies or possible future movie rights out of these threads. ****

**** PLEASE DO NOT REPEAT QUESTIONS AND SCENARIOS THAT HAS BEEN COVERED AND DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS THREADS AND WHICH DO NOT CONTRIBUTE OR APPLY, IN A CONSTRUCTIVE MANNER, TOWARDS THIS CONVERSATION ANY LONGER. ****

**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Please check out the sanity check by [ rcair1 ]: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,
Pat

[Edited 2014-03-17 13:36:47]
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
Gatorman96
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:40 pm

From previous thread:

Quoting EC135 (Reply 247):
The aircraft is in my opinion sitting in one piece on the ground on a remote field in the Turkmenistan or Pakistan area covered with camouflage and waiting to be used in terrorist attack e.g. as a dirty bomb

This would indicate that the pilot and/or co-pilot would have to have some sort of connection to a terrorist cell or they were forced to land the plane somewhere. This also means they will be forced to carry out the remainder of the mission as I highly doubt any terrorist org has a type rated 777 pilot just hanging out. It's one thing to steer a plane already in flight, it's another to be responsible for all phases of flight.
Cha brro
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting Trin (Reply 255):
I have read arguments for and against both the "northern route" and the "southern route" - but, I must admit, each day that the SaR efforts bring up no evidence of debris or wreckage from the Indian Ocean, the more I feel that plane took the northern route and was flown by someone who was very, very skilled and very, very familiar with international boundaries, ATC designated boundaries, and radar avoidance techniques. Just stunning.

It's a big lake. And deep.
 
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pvjin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting EC135 (Reply 247):
Definitely not, you won't need to do all this just for flying towards the Indian Ocean and running out of fuel....

I think the hijacker just did his best to make sure the aircraft wouldn't be found, possibly due to shame / insurance money. Disabling transponder & avoiding radar contact was clearly a good way to make things a lot more difficult for investigators.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 247):
In all other scenarios the very very well planned action to make this a/c disappear would make no sense at all.

Who knows was it that well planned or not? I think either of the pilots / possibly some other crew member just flew the aircraft into the Indian Ocean (after first doing some maneuvering to avoid radar contact) and pointed the nose down when it had flown far enough / ran out of fuel.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 247):
Turkmenistan or Pakistan area covered with camouflage and waiting to be used in terrorist attack e.g. as a dirty bomb.

How many times this has happened in history? 0.

How many times pilot suicide has happened? Many times. That's why it's more likely.

A group capable of doing this shouldn't lack money to obtain a jetliner through other, safer and less risky ways. They could just buy some old wreck under a fake company name.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
mafi29
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:41 pm

it was one of the last posts on the previous thread:

What about the contrail of the aircraft? Shouldn't it be visible on images from meteorological satellites? At least in the infra red channels (as it was night)?

Sorry if it has bee discussed befor, but I haven't read all post of all the 32 threads... And a quick serch did not yield any results.

Thanks for your thoughts
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:42 pm

Another thread. I wonder which number will be the last for this topic...

[Edited 2014-03-17 13:44:20]
 
KL577
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 2):

Quoting Trin (Reply 255):
I have read arguments for and against both the "northern route" and the "southern route" - but, I must admit, each day that the SaR efforts bring up no evidence of debris or wreckage from the Indian Ocean, the more I feel that plane took the northern route and was flown by someone who was very, very skilled and very, very familiar with international boundaries, ATC designated boundaries, and radar avoidance techniques. Just stunning.

It's a big lake. And deep.

They spent two years finding AF447 searching in a 100 km by 100 km block of sea. Chances of finding MH370 are negligible.
 
airplane
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:45 pm

Now that the situation has become an illicit interference, the authorities won't inform if they know that the plane landed since it will become a rescue operation for the passengers and crew as well as persut those responsible. Publicizing that the plane landed may threat the rescue and life of all the passengers and crew
The sky´s the limit
 
k83713
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting mafi29 (Reply 4):
What about the contrail of the aircraft? Shouldn't it be visible on images from meteorological satellites? At least in the infra red channels (as it was night)?

Was thinking about the same today. I doubt though there are a lot of satellites monitoring middle of Indian ocean, since there are really not a lot of possible consumers of that information. Google Maps for instance gives appropriate resolution only of those small islands and nothing around...
 
DrivesForShow
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting airplane (Reply 7):
Publicizing that the plane landed may threat the rescue and life of all the passengers and crew

SEAL Team 6 might be moving in as we speak...
 
mandala499
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 178):
Now, mandala, I have another question for you: I have heard that the outflow valves will not allow cabin altitude to drop below 14000ft as long as bleed air is working. Can you confirm or deny that? Is it possible to completely depressurize the aircraft without turning off in the "inflow" (don't know the jargon) ? If so, wouldn't the flight deck and cabin quickly grow incredibly cold? Or do you think intentional decompression is a valid hypothesis?

Turn pressurization to manual, open the valves... it will depressurize... Wanna make it quicker, just turn off the bleeds too (inflow)... Just pressing a few buttons... the longer button is the outflow valve in manual... 

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 3):
I think the hijacker just did his best to make sure the aircraft wouldn't be found, possibly due to shame / insurance money. Disabling transponder & avoiding radar contact was clearly a good way to make things a lot more difficult for investigators.

WRT shame, there is a huge stigma of mental illness in many societies. Not sure if this applies in Malaysia, but if present then this could supply sufficient motivation for a would-be suicidal pilot to try to cover his tracks. In my mind this is a far more powerful motivator than finances.
 
travelhound
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting k83713 (Reply 5):
Another thread. I wonder which number will be the last for this topic...

Oh, the intrigue of it all!
 
spacecadet
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:53 pm

From the previous thread:

"TWA800 accident had so many theories and news breaking for every theory, but no one guessed the actual reason and there are quite a few who don't want to buy the official story."

This is true, but I think you're getting the parallels between these incidents backwards.

In the TWA 800 accident, we initially had the FBI involved looking at it as a criminal case. When they found no evidence of criminality, they fairly quickly called it an accident investigation and handed it over to the NTSB. (IIRC, this happened within a matter of a week or two.) The NTSB then investigated it as an accident. Many people never came around to believing it was an accident despite all the evidence, because they were stuck on believing what it looked like initially.

In this incident, we initially had the Malaysians and everyone else searching in the South China Sea for the wreckage of an accident. Many people compared it to AF447. The initial theory was that the plane went down for mechanical or other reasons somewhere near where it "lost" contact. Later, evidence emerged that it was deliberately hidden during flight and flown out of the area. A criminal case was opened, and the investigation "refocused" on the passengers and crew.

As in the TWA 800 accident, many people cannot accept that the theory they initially believed to be true is not. That's the parallel to TWA 800, and it's a big part of what's at work here. But you have to follow where the evidence points you, not try to look for evidence that supports your theory.

Even if more evidence comes to light implicating deliberate action by someone - and even if we find the plane and all the FDR tells us is that it was under human input until it ran out of fuel and crashed - there are probably always going to be people who believe the cause of this incident was some sort of mechanical anomaly, because that was their initial belief and no amount of circumstantial evidence could ever convince them otherwise.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 10):
Turn pressurization to manual, open the valves... it will depressurize... Wanna make it quicker, just turn off the bleeds too (inflow)... Just pressing a few buttons... the longer button is the outflow valve in manual...

Assuming this would create a state of equilibrium with the ambient atmosphere, then would the internal temperature drop to match that of the outside?
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:59 pm

From previous thread:

Quoting EC135 (Reply 247):
Definitely not, you won't need to do all this just for flying towards the Indian Ocean and running out of fuel.... the northern scenario is much more likely. The aircraft is in my opinion sitting in one piece on the ground on a remote field in the Turkmenistan or Pakistan area covered with camouflage and waiting to be used in terrorist attack e.g. as a dirty bomb. In all other scenarios the very very well planned action to make this a/c disappear would make no sense at all.

But there seem to be some many easier ways by which to acquire a plane sufficient to deliver such a device.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:01 pm

Is there any precedent set for hijackers turning off the transponder and disabling ACARS to avoid detection? As previously stated, this seems like it would require deep knowledge of the aircraft.

Also, would a commercial pilot be able to evade radar detection without any prior study of the area? These two questions would further point to a pilot(s) hijack/suicide theory. Thanks
Cha brro
 
silentbob
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 15):
But there seem to be some many easier ways by which to acquire a plane sufficient to deliver such a device.

I don't know, it looks like they may have pulled this one off on the first try.
 
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casinterest
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 16):
Is there any precedent set for hijackers turning off the transponder and disabling ACARS to avoid detection? As previously stated, this seems like it would require deep knowledge of the aircraft.

I would think it would just involve reading the AF threads here on airliners to get an idea.

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 16):
Also, would a commercial pilot be able to evade radar detection without any prior study of the area? These two questions would further point to a pilot(s) hijack/suicide theory. Thanks

Possibly, but it seems really far out there for either of these at the moment, but then again the Egypt Air crash never made much sense either.


I still wonder if maybe there was a failure of the onboard systems, and perhaps as a last conscious effort the pilots somehow pulled up a previous routing within the computer that might explain how and why the plane may have kept flying on such precise waypoints as reported earlier.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
EC135
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 15):
But there seem to be some many easier ways by which to acquire a plane sufficient to deliver such a device.

But not if you need a long-haul a/c reaching far locations nonstop... e.g. Turkmenistan to USA
 
DrivesForShow
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:15 pm

Quoting edmountain (Reply 15):
But there seem to be some many easier ways by which to acquire a plane sufficient to deliver such a device.

Not one that could potentially reach the US from the Middle East.

If it's in Turkmenistan (or that general region), without cargo - besides the hypothetical weapon - and no passangers, could it make it to New York? If it did follow another plane to avoid radar detection (like I mentioned in part 32 with SIA 68) it could do the same on its way to the east coast of the US and peel off at the last second before there is time to react. Also have to keep in mind European/Chinese/etc. targets as well, the US isn't the only country that gets attacked.
 
pintail21
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:16 pm

Some random thoughts about this massive thread so far...

I think suicide is very likely. Go out in a DB Cooper-esque way, maybe get some insurance money for the family, protect them from any shame, legal action or reprisals and maybe even being (falsely) remembered as a hero for stopping a nonexistent terrorist attack. If the Egyptian gov't was so eager to defend their aircrew's obvious suicide maybe the pilot hoped the Malaysians would do the same and he could escape any blame. A lot of the suicide talks here have centered on the irrationality of a complex suicide plot, but I don't think that is correct. Suicide can be considered rational if, in the person's opinion, the pain or future consequences of living outweigh your fear of death or the afterlife, then you can argue the risk/reward equation rationally favors not living anymore. And it would be a convoluted suicide plot, but if you were going to choose murder-suicide versus just offing yourself in a more traditional manner it will be more complicated of a plot anyways, so why not take the triple 7 out for a spin and be famous?

The lack ELT issue is very interesting too. Let's say hypothetically the pilot takes the plane up to FL450 to take out the passengers then sets a course out to the most remote area and crashes there. If he takes off his mask, runs out of O2 or kills himself through other means what happens to the plane? The autopilot probably keeps trucking on the last heading/route and runs out of gas. The altitude hold mode probably holds the altitude until the stall (or is there other stall protection?), the stick pusher presumably noses the plane nose over to avoid the stall, will it kick the http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...J&sjid=bAUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5133,904681

http://footnote1.com/the-drug-war-mo...fluence-in-africa-grows-in-africa/

As far as comparing this to Katrina or Haiti, there is a huge difference between having a major city completely inaccessible due to flooding, downed wires and trees cutting off all but helicopter and small boat access, or going into a completely devastated 3rd world country with one single runway airport that normally saw 30 flights a day triple their capacity to 100 flights a day while being run from a tent on the airfield, and government officials playing "I have a secret", refusing to get help from technical experts and sending search crews thousands of miles in the wrong direction. The may be trying their hardest, but if I go down in the Indian ocean or Gulf of Thailand without an operable beacon I have zero confidence in any of the host nation SAR assets finding me before I wash up on shore.

If you want to talk about foreign intel plots around Iran, there is no way that is possible. The Iranian intel services are a completely joke. Inside Iran where they can tap into everything and have complete government support they can be tough to crack, but outside the country? The whole Mexican cartel/kill a congressman debacle from a few years back and the bungled bombing attempt in Thailand shows that they aren't exactly KGB level. The stakes of pissing off China are too high. Terrorist organizations are also getting so dismantled I doubt we'll see another successful complex, coordinated attack. Go shoot up a soft target like an African mall, set off some car bombs, get a few lone wolf attacks? Absolutely. Sneak a dozen operatives in a country, get them training, logistical support, scout targets, etc? VERY doubtful. Plus it is well known in open source media that the taliban and AQ are almost broke. Bombing innocent civilians and not the western satans tends to piss off the locals and the rich donors. Staging fuel, bribing airline and airport and government officials, getting radar coverage data, etc is pretty tough to keep quiet. That's a lot of tracks to cover and a ton of money to carry it out, so I think a cartel is more likely to acquire a plane, not terrorists.

[Edited 2014-03-17 14:25:57]
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting DrivesForShow (Reply 9):
SEAL Team 6 might be moving in as we speak...

lets hope so!
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting DrivesForShow (Reply 20):
If it's in Turkmenistan (or that general region), without cargo - besides the hypothetical weapon - and no passangers, could it make it to New York

It could yes with some margin as well. 772ER MTOW range is around 7700nm.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ASB-LGA&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=.84&SU=mach
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
gobeyond
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:23 pm

Well we might as well send up a satellite just to search for this one aircraft. Practically half the globe needs to be looked at. And the amount of resources expended on the search are just as incredible.
It definitely does not want to be found!!! If this is an accident it is the Chernobyl of aviation with so many things that would have to go wrong...Maybe a stray black whole is easier to explain..
Wow, just for clarity if the passengers were somehow kept alive as ransom, we are looking at almost two weeks of feeding hundreds of people...Just saying
 
747megatop
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 18):
I would think it would just involve reading the AF threads here on airliners to get an idea.

I don't think AF 447 was a precedent. They knew AF 447 had gone down because they had spotted floating debris by the 5th day. They also had a wealth of data in the form of ACARS messages signalling airspeed problems; autopilot shutdown etc. Pilot suidice or Hijacking was way down on the list of possibilities.
 
Lindenwold
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting DrivesForShow (Reply 9):

how the heck did you join this forum in 1969?
 
dampfnudel
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 3):
How many times this has happened in history? 0.

How many times pilot suicide has happened? Many times. That's why it's more likely.

A group capable of doing this shouldn't lack money to obtain a jetliner through other, safer and less risky ways. They could just buy some old wreck under a fake company name.

Pilot suicide is most likely in this situation, but just because something never happened before doesn't rule it out happening in the future. So I'll say what I perhaps would have said twenty years ago if someone brought up the possibility of terrorists using hijacked aircraft to bring down two of the tallest buildings in the world (which I witnessed personally). It's unlikely, but I can't rule out the possibility of it happening. Meanwhile, I look at the skies over New York with a little apprehension since the disappearance of MH370.
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:26 pm

The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless, and just doesn't make sense. The United States has an interest in this, and redeploying the U.S.S. Kidd outside of the scope of the search operation tells us that the government knows more than they are telling us.
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 26):
how the heck did you join this forum in 1969?

Google localtime(0).
 
imatams
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting DrivesForShow (Reply 20):
If it's in Turkmenistan (or that general region), without cargo - besides the hypothetical weapon - and no passangers, could it make it to New York? If it did follow another plane to avoid radar detection (like I mentioned in part 32 with SIA 68) it could do the same on its way to the east coast of the US and peel off at the last second before there is time to react. Also have to keep in mind European/Chinese/etc. targets as well, the US isn't the only country that gets attacked.

Folks, Tom Clancy is dead..

-"Picking up" SQ 68 would have required up-to-the-minute planning that could have been ruined by the smallest of delays in Singapore, or enroute.
- If they were to pick up 'any' Europe-bound flight that would mean knowing routes and destinations of tons of flight numbers, and happening to find one of those on TCAS (wich is not long range)
- They might have escaped detection that way on military radar initially, but it would have clearly shown up by anyone reviewing radar data,which i'm sury every country involved has been doing. A 777 is not a steath bomber!
- Visual: If they want to fly to the US / Europe they would have to fly through the VERY busy European airspace and transatlantic tracks. The chance of a 777 piggy-backing another aircraft not being spotted visually by other aircraft would be minimal.
 
747WanSui
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting Lindenwold (Reply 26):

That's simply a technical error on the forum's part.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):

I think the 45000 figure is likely inaccurate. In the Brazilian mid-air collision in 2006, the corporate jet appeared to be changing height erratically on primary radar when it was in fact constantly flying at a specific height - this was the result of primary radar being less than 100% accurate with respect to actual height.
Long live the Boeing 747!
 
giopan1975
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless, and just doesn't make sense.

Dont try find logic in a mentally ill (in the suicide scenario).

In the steal-a-777-scenario it would make absolute scense not wanting to have any distraction from the back at all for the remaining 6 hrs of flying.
 
edmountain
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless, and just doesn't make sense. The United States has an interest in this, and redeploying the U.S.S. Kidd outside of the scope of the search operation tells us that the government knows more than they are telling us.

If you consider the possibility of a mass murder-suicide reminiscent of Columbine etc then the creepy and pointless side of things suddenly has precedent.
 
jetblueguy22
Topic Author
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting gobeyond (Reply 24):
Well we might as well send up a satellite just to search for this one aircraft.

There are more than enough satellites looking for this. The US by itself probably has complete global coverage. I bet Russia and China are there too.

Quoting gobeyond (Reply 24):
Wow, just for clarity if the passengers were somehow kept alive as ransom, we are looking at almost two weeks of feeding hundreds of people...Just saying

If they were being held for ransom we probably would have heard something. Not to mention I doubt the passengers are being fed if they were being held. Obviously their well being isn't important to whoever did this.

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless,

It's creepy, even if he swiftly killed them by crashing into the ocean. Pointless though not necessarily. Maybe if it was a simple crash into the ocean whoever was at the controls didn't want to passengers to suffer. Rather peacefully die. On the other hand if it was taken and flown somewhere it meant nobody interfering with their plan.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
capri
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless, and just doesn't make sense. The United States has an interest in this, and redeploying the U.S.S. Kidd outside of the scope of the search operation tells us that the government knows more than they are telling us.

am thinking in the same direction, some people knew what happened, I feel Malaysian gvt in the dark, certain people are sorting this mess quietly and they may even sending and leaking false infos to steer away people from what they are doing, even as new joiners to a.net to change discussions toward suicide or other things
 
djm18
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:41 pm

QUESTION (At the Risk of getting voted out of this forum):

Are we 100% confident that there could not have been some mechanical failure (or chain of events) that caused this highly improbable chain of events. I am concerned that we are all down the "terrorist/rogue pilot" rabbit holes and have perhaps missed some other explanation which should still be on the table and subject to further discussion.

Perhaps as a sanity check it would make sense to make a list of the few "facts" that we have that take the mechanical failure option completely off the table.
 
davidzill
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:41 pm

I think the passengers were deprived of oxygen to prevent them from interfering from a later plan that did not include suicide.
 
AT
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting pintail21 (Reply 21):
I think suicide is very likely. Go out in a DB Cooper-esque way, maybe get some insurance money for the family,

There is absolutely no way any insurance company would pay out any policy in the present circumstances- they would wait to ensure beyond a likely doubt that pilot suicide was not in play here first.

Do the Malaysian authorities know whether any life insurance policies were taken out recently by either the pilot or the co-pilot? If so, that doesn't necessarily point to guilt but would be important to know in terms of pursuing further leads.
 
Trin
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 34):
There are more than enough satellites looking for this. The US by itself probably has complete global coverage. I bet Russia and China are there too.

  

Yep, and you've gotta wonder just how much intense satellite scrutiny there is currently over areas such as India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan etc.etc. Would be very interesting if they turned up some other 'things of interest' during this search for MH370.....of course, then again, they have probably already scrutinized that area pretty good.

But you can definitely rest assured that the U.S., China, and any other nation with satellites that are remotely 'friendly' will be looking for this plane.
"I'd always thought you were a guy." .... "Most guys do." ~The Matrix.
 
md11sdf
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:45 pm

Several threads ago, the Pilot's Facebook page was quoted. It would seem that he was very active in the opposition party.
I read everything that was posted here and found it quite relevant to what is happening. I have been watching coverage on all of the American News Networks (except Al Jazeera) and have heard......... Not a single mention of it.

It has been asked "If you are a terrorist group and you want to do a 9/11 style attack, why not just go out and buy some older airliners that are in storage?" Good question. Simple answer. A solid paper trail that would lead straight back to the purchaser. Even if they are a "front-Group" for the terrorists. A "stolen" aircraft, repainted and with what appears to be a valid squak and flight-number is not going to attract so much attention.

To this day, there are some who claim this HAD to be an "inflight fire that incapacitated everyone and the plane was on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel". REALLY? Did anyone else read the Malaysian newspaper account of the aircraft flying low and around high terrain so ground based radars wouldn't spot it?

This action was carried out with magnificent precision and I'm among those who believe it was the passengers were not needed as "hostages" (we would have heard their demands a week ago) and the long range capability of the aircraft is really what this organisation needed. Odds are (I am very sorry for all families) the passengers are gone from this earth.

A hobby of mine has been looking at areas of the former Soviet Union using Google Maps/Earth satellite views. There were remote military airbases all over the place. Most of which are abandoned today. Some even have intact aircraft rotting on the pads and ramps. THAT would be the place to land and refuel. (assets waiting already).
Many have scoffed at the theories of this being like something from a James Bond film, with a SPECTRE master-mind and 250 "henchmen" working out a devilish plan. Everything I've read and seen thus far supports THAT more than "suicide in the Indian Ocean". The plane flew for seven hours after it broke off it's original flight-plan.

I just fear that this well financed and thorough group does not have their hands on a former Pakistani Nuclear weapon.
The world has not been brought to it's knees by a massive terrorist action in a long time, but I fear it's coming...
LOUISVILLE, where your camera may as well be a stinger misslie to the Airport Police.
 
giopan1975
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 36):
Are we 100% confident that there could not have been some mechanical failure (or chain of events) that caused this highly improbable chain of events. I am concerned that we are all down the "terrorist/rogue pilot" rabbit holes and have perhaps missed some other explanation which should still be on the table and subject to further discussion.

There are very strong indications that the plane changed course after human intervention in the cockpit with all other factors unchanged. At least this is what we are being served by global media over the past days.

Havent you listened to Malaysia PM speech?
 
Gatorman96
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 34):
Quoting gobeyond (Reply 24):
Well we might as well send up a satellite just to search for this one aircraft.

There are more than enough satellites looking for this. The US by itself probably has complete global coverage. I bet Russia and China are there too.

Global imagery acquisition isn't the issue, but finding qualified analysts to scour the globe is where the rub occurs.

Quote:
Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless,

Creepy? Maybe, but it isn't anywhere close slamming perfectly good aircraft, full of innocent people into skyscrapers, also filled with innocent people.

As to aimlessly flying around for 7 hours, if this were a suicide attempt, the person in control of the aircraft may have had second thoughts after killing the passengers, hence flying around contemplating their next move.
Cha brro
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting davidzill (Reply 28):
The suicide theories go down the toilet when combined with the theory that the rapid ascent to 45,000 was to kill the passengers, then fly wound for 7 hours with 237 dead bodies! that is creepy and pointless, and just doesn't make sense. The United States has an interest in this, and redeploying the U.S.S. Kidd outside of the scope of the search operation tells us that the government knows more than they are telling us.

Many of us have come up with several logical theories for pilot suicide, and some of you people just keep coming back with .... "it doesn't make sense" .... that's all you guys say.

As far as the USS Kidd, they have just announced they are ending their search operation, likely because they don't believe it's in the Andaman Sea, and the stress on personnel and equipment is probably beginning. In addition, I believe that the Australians are joining the search because, as I believe, there is more and more evidence that this plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean. Australia is close and the ships involved would be fresh with regard to equipment and personnel.

Again, as I asked a few days ago, I think it would be very interesting to see what the ocean currents are like off the west coast of Australia ... What if those currents head toward Antarctica. Regardless, I think some debris will wash up somewhere at some point, which will put to rest the fears the plane could be used as a weapon sometime in the future.

[Edited 2014-03-17 15:04:21]
 
giopan1975
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:54 pm

Why not commit suicide by causing suffocation to all aboard including yourself by going up to 45000ft, manage to set autopilot before fainting, plane crashes after fuel starvation?
 
mt99
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:55 pm

Ok stupid question: Can Flight Data Recorder and Voice Recorder be "turned off" in flight?
Step into my office, baby
 
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casinterest
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 25):

I don't think AF 447 was a precedent. They knew AF 447 had gone down because they had spotted floating debris by the 5th day. They also had a wealth of data in the form of ACARS messages signalling airspeed problems; autopilot shutdown etc. Pilot suidice or Hijacking was way down on the list of possibilities.

I wasn't trying to imply a precedent. I was just posting the idea that a lot of information on how to track those planes and how the ACARS worked were presented there. If anyone was trying to make the plane "Invisible" there was a lot of source material on where to start looking to make it happen.

At this point, we still don't know what occurred on this plane. Unless a document has been left somewhere laying claim to a plot with willing actors, we won't know until we find the plane and the black boxes. The worst part would be not having the CVR, if the plane flew on for a few hours more.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
bthebest
Posts: 434
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:57 pm

Regarding the Satellite Pings, would be useful to have data from previous pings and cross-reference with possible locations.

For example, a few hours earlier the satellite would have been further North or South. As it has been indicated it received hourly pings, surely this could exclude either Northern or Southern arcs as they would be beyond the range at that time?
 
jelliesR
Posts: 94
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting DJM18 (Reply 36):
Are we 100% confident that there could not have been some mechanical failure (or chain of events) that caused this highly improbable chain of events.

The problem I have with the mechanical scenario is if a pilot is still conscious after the catastrophic event he would want to fly it close to a major airport and then circle hoping to somehow get it on the ground. If it could not maintain pressure altitude due to a gaping hole, he would not cruise back to high altitude. If it could maintain pressure and comms were down he could fly lower over land and instruct passengers to attempt communication.

If the pilot were incapacitated Helios style, but the plane was still flown deliberately, a crew or passenger with some flying experience must be at the controls. Whether that is even remotely possible only the investigators can know.

This morning the news is that ACARS could have gone off at the same instant the transponder went off, both AFTER the last transmission. So a mechanical failure scenario becomes just barely more possible.

One would imagine an expert in mental health in possession of a lot of information from the background of both pilots must by now have a fairly strong opinion on whether the suicide/dramatic lone act scenario is more or less likely than it was a week ago. They should have web browsing history, any personal notes or letters, interviews with friends family and colleagues. None of this is yet made public and may never be.
 
n471wn
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RE: MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33

Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 45):
Ok stupid question: Can Flight Data Recorder and Voice Recorder be "turned off" in flight?

no.......
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