titus95
Topic Author
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:52 am

Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:35 am

http://fr.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idFRKBN0CA00720140319

As usual , at every President or Prime Minister of China visit in Europe , an Airbus order is signed.
This time a 150 units order is rumoured during the China's President in Europe at the end of this month.
A320 ,330 and 350 are rumoured in this order.
Will be interesting to see if the A320s will be ceo or neo. Perhaps the ceo orders are at the end of the road in China.
 
rheinwaldner
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:34 pm

I think Airbus (and Boeing) is always near a 150 units order from China....
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:35 pm

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 1):

I think Airbus (and Boeing) is always near a 150 units order from China....

Indeed. I wouldn't call this an astonishing order. Except of course when a nice nunch of WB aircraft are included (A380s please).
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:39 pm

Will many of these be built in Tianjin. What kind of production rate do they have there?

I see a lot of new Airbus A32Xs going to China (on Skyliner), but very few seem to be built in Tianjin - for example, B-1816, for Air China, an A321 delivered yesterday from XFW.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:45 pm

Story in English:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...-group-china-idUSBREA2I06E20140319

> At least 150 jets, final number depends on last-minute talks
> The deal could also include "some" A320 and A350 aircraft
> It would suggest the deal is mainly all about A330s
> A330 cabin completion center in Tianjin will be Airbus's second major factory in the country
> The deal is expected to be signed at the end of this month
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
pugman211
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:52 pm

A321's are built in Hamburg, and the FALC are now building A320's and A319's.
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2327
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:55 pm

Is it just me that finds these order from China boring now?

Each gets a good order, depending on how the Chinese government feel towards either the US or Europe... So there is no real "fight" for the orders here.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
PhoenixVIP
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:41 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:18 pm

The important thing here is to understand how many A330 Regionals are part of this order. The number of times I have flown the major routes for business, including PEK-SHA, PEK-CAN, PEK-HKG, PEK-SZX, PEK-CTU etc show the need to for widebodies to operate them. Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

I cannot see the Chinese market absorbing more than one hundred widebodies over the next 5 years anyway. Yes incomes are rising and people are taking planes more. We need widebodies for dense routes but not at such high amount. A320s and 737s are still the most important backbone for our domestic services for the foreseeable future I am sure.
Quote: "I don't think anyone can call orders for an aeroplane that hasn't flown yet truly firm". #lolfail 777X/NEO/MAX!
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting phoenixVIP (Reply 7):
Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

More important, Boeing nor Airbus can deliver 100+ 787 or A350 aircraft before the end of the decade as everything is booked out. The A330 on the other hand is available.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
User avatar
crimsonchin
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:16 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Interesting if the A350 is part of the deal, as according to some member's "logic", China would skip the A350 because they ordered the A320 the last time

Quoting garpd (Reply 6):

Pretty sure the parties that matter here the most and who benefit directly from this would gladly have China place one of thde "boring" orders every month.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 9):
China would skip the A350 because they ordered the A320 the last time

Well, Air China ordered 10 A350s in 2010.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1175
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting phoenixVIP (Reply 7):
Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

Strictly speaking, the A330R isn't a regional jet either. It's a medium haul aircraft, improved along the years becoming medium-long haul, and now derated for shorter hops.

The non-ER 777-300 was meant for medium haul as well, but China never ordered them. I can see a possibility for the 787-10 being used as domestic widebody in China, depending on how the A330R will be configured. If it has round 440 seats, I don't think the 787-10 will be very useful as it also has an exit limit of 440 pax.
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting titus95 (Thread starter):
This time a 150 units order is rumoured during the China's President in Europe at the end of this month.
A320 ,330 and 350 are rumoured in this order.

If signed this is of course a very significant order. Especially if the emphasis is mainly the A330.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
The A330 on the other hand is available.

Availability is always a very important factor which is quite often underrated. This order could be the bridge for Airbus to launch the A330-neo if they wish so, and if the market analysis supports the decision for the launch.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:51 pm

So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.

It does indeed. But the number of 150 jets could also incorporate some smaller aircraft (A32X-neo) and some larger aircraft (A350-XWB).
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.

Now that I would call an astonishing blowing-ass order!!!  
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:19 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Will many of these be built in Tianjin. What kind of production rate do they have there?

It makes me laugh that when China buys something from us it's made in their own country. When we buy from them it's made in their country. If we made all the things that China supply to us there wouldn't be unemployment in Europe.  

The trade relations between Europe and China baffle me. I can't work it out.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2327
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 16):
It makes me laugh that when China buys something from us it's made in their own country. When we buy from them it's made in their country. If we made all the things that China supply to us there wouldn't be unemployment in Europe.

"Russian components, American components.... ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! *CLONK* We go home now!"
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
What kind of production rate do they have there?

I believe Tianjin produces four A320s per month.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 3795
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:40 pm

To what airline(s) will all these aircraft go?

Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
"Russian components, American components.... ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! *CLONK* We go home now!"

  
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:27 am

Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:24 am

Quoting chiad (Reply 20):
Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html

It suggests 27 A330s (delayed because of the carbon emissions spat) and possibly some A350s.

Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!  
 
india1
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:06 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:45 am

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
It suggests 27 A330s (delayed because of the carbon emissions spat) and possibly some A350s.

Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!  


The way I read this and other related articles was that the 27 frames which were held up will also be "unfrozen" as part of the overall deal. So I am seeing a largish number of 330s with the inclusion of the earlier 27, to make it seem even more impressive.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:36 am

You have to read is as "as many as 150 aircraft, including the 27 A330s frozen in the emissions spat".
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
kogge
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:12 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:18 am

I'm really awaiting what they will "sell" us next week during the chinese visit to France...

Of the "27 A330 frozen in the emission spat" 17 have already been booked by Airbus last year...

Looking at below list we could hear of more than 350 Airbus Orders from China without anything being really new....

A32X already Booked, but as "unnanounced customers": 180
100x A32X Air China/Shenzhen announced 5/13, booked 12/13 as UFO
020x A32neo booked as UFO 12/13, may be ICBC Lsg
060x A32X China Eastern announced 1/13, booked as UFO 12/12

A330 "frozen": about 27, 17 already booked
010 A333 China Southern, announced 1/13, but not booked
017 A330 booked under various Chinese airlines in 8/13 and 10/13 (but only one for CSN).

A32X reported by airlines, but not booked: >143
023x A32X Qingdao Airlines announced 9/13, not booked
030x A32X Spring Airlines, announced 11/13, not booked
020x A32X Zhejiang Loong announced 12/13, even press release by Airbus, but not booked
070x A32Xneo China Eastern announced 2/14, not booked, but 1st trade-in A300-600 already back in Europe
Plus reports about more A32X for Juneyao Airlines and Tibet Airlines

Plus...
042 A32X CASC announced spring 13 during visit of Hollande to China, not booked
018 A330 CASC announced spring 13 during visit of Hollande to China, not booked
Sum 60, probably already included somewhere above

total 350 +
Flown in Caravelle, Coronado, Friendship, Fellowship, Herald, Heron, One-Eleven, Trident, Viscount & others
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:59 am

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!
Quoting India1 (Reply 22):
You have to read is as "as many as 150 aircraft, including the 27 A330s frozen in the emissions spat".

  

Even the headlines states this:

"Airbus Seen Poised to Get China Order for 100 Airliners"
 
india1
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:06 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting kogge (Reply 24):
Of the "27 A330 frozen in the emission spat" 17 have already been booked by Airbus last year...

Umm, no. The best I know, they had 45 frames which they'd held up, of which they released 18 and so 27 remain as carried forward.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13470
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting India1 (Reply 26):
Umm, no. The best I know, they had 45 frames which they'd held up, of which they released 18 and so 27 remain as carried forward.

That's my understanding as well.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
india1
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:06 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:30 pm

WSJ has put up this piece which is a possible dampener:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-485813/
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting India1 (Reply 28):
WSJ has put up this piece which is a possible dampener:

For those without access to the WSJ paywall, Google "EU Vote Raises Doubts Over Chinese Airbus Orders" to see the article.

The article notes that the environment commission of the European Parliament narrowly rejected a compromise agreement on the Emissions Trading Scheme that was more amenable to China, however the full EU Parliament can (and likely will) put it into law when they meet in full session on 3 April.

So I could see Chinese President Xi Jinping making this an MoU during his Official Visit to France next week and once the EU Parliament implements the change, CAAC would then firm the order. Or he signs it and if the EU Parliament fails to approve the compromise, CAAC just changes their mind (not like Airbus would risk enforcing the penalty clauses).

[Edited 2014-03-20 09:47:54]
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:58 am

Quoting chiad (Reply 20):
Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

Today it's 26th of March. It will be interesting to see if there's any announcements coming up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:59 am

Well, Airbus Group and China will sign a deal for 1,000 EC-175 helicopters today.

http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-poli...t-de-1-000-helicopteres-659632.php

Another deal for the commercial airplane department is expected as well, including the 70 NEO's for China Eastern Airlines.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
india1
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:06 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:13 pm

First, and incomplete news trickling in that they've announced new deals including "unblocking" of the 27 units. Stay tuned!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...china-airbus-idUSBREA2P1HZ20140326
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:22 pm

The Tianjin final assembly site is now secured until 2025 and it will build the A320neo from 2017.

The order breakdown is as follows:

> 43x A320
> 27x A330

Total: 70 aircraft

http://twitter.com/vguillermard
http://twitter.com/R_Wall

[edit]

Press release now online:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...their-partnership-into-the-future/

[Edited 2014-03-26 10:30:23]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
The Tianjin final assembly site is now secured until 2025 and it will build the A320neo from 2017.

Smaller order than rumored, but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.
Hopefully there will be more to come later this year on that.
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
chiad
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:57 pm

A huge order even though it was not quite 150 A330s.
Also the news release from Airbus switches between commitments and order.
 
art
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:07 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):What kind of production rate do they have there?

I believe Tianjin produces four A320s per month.

IIRC it was designed with a view to allowing assembly capacity to increase to 8 per month.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:07 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
Smaller order than rumored,

Indeed, but still 70 planes including 27 WB-A330's is quite a good number.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.
Hopefully there will be more to come later this year on that.

Maybe the "remaining part of the order", if there still is one, could be done when more clarity will be available on the A330-plant in China?
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 37):
Maybe the "remaining part of the order", if there still is one, could be done when more clarity will be available on the A330-plant in China?


And also how interested China actually is to commit to a large enough number of A330R in exchange for Airbus to invest in the A330 line in China?
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Crew
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?

Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.

According to the press release: "Airbus and relevant Chinese parties will work towards demonstrating the interest of setting up a wide-body aircraft completion centre in China, which includes cooperation on wide-body cabin interiors with AVIC."

The completion centre deal is still in the works.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

Who is online