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SANFan
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Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:34 pm

We've surpassed 200 posts on Vol 2, so how 'bout we start a new one? V 2 can be accessed here:
Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 2 (by SANFan Dec 13 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Lindy', I'll let you provide an appropriate photo to start off this new thread.

I see on another thread ( Air Canada Rouge Expands To Western Canada (by catII Mar 25 2014 in Civil Aviation) ) that AC has announced rouge is coming to YVR and YYC. Unfortunately, I don't see any mention of YVR-SAN starting as part of this expansion. Needless to say, I find this disappointing. Maybe someday the route will start again...

Hope some others have some good news to report!

bb

[Edited 2014-03-25 11:18:22]
 
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Alsatian
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:10 pm

Delta will introduce the 739 on the Detroit route starting June 5 :

DL 833 SAN 1130 - 1852 DTW
DL 1509 SAN 2235 - 0555+1 DTW

And from September 2, four of the five daily flights to ATL will be operated by 739s :

DL 1592 SAN 0645 - 1355 ATL 739
DL 1662 SAN 0800 - 1507 ATL 739
DL 1692 SAN 1050 - 1804 ATL 739
DL 2267 SAN 1345 - 2105 ATL 739
DL 1792 SAN 2230 - 0542+1 ATL 763
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
timf
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 1):
Delta will introduce the 739 on the Detroit route starting June 5 :

Delta has already been flying the 739 on DTW-SAN since the beginning of March.
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:48 pm

Thanks for starting the new thread, bb, and for keeping this series going. I've been following all along, even if there are sometimes gaps in my posting!

I think that the decrease in 757 service to SAN is going to be one of the major developments at our airport in 2014, along with a further drawdown of MD-80 flights. Since I've been asked to add a pictorial element to our thread, let's start off with an image of the future. I expect to see lots of these for the next 15-20 years...
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lghsiao



Edward
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:28 pm

DL is also adding E175s on some of the SANLAX operations.
Retorne ao céu...
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting timf (Reply 2):
Delta has already been flying the 739 on DTW-SAN since the beginning of March.

My mistake. I have checked the May schedules when the 757 is in use.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 4):
DL is also adding E175s on some of the SANLAX operations.

From June 5 :

DL 5799 SAN 0620 - 0718 LAX
DL 5798 LAX 2055 - 2155 SAN
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
bw50505
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:07 pm

Does anyone know what if Spirit will upgrade any SAN flights to A320s like they did last Summer? I checked their website, and came up with nothing.
Flown on: A319 A320 B734 B737 B738 B752 CRJ DHC2 DH8 E135/145 E190 MD80 ...and more that I can't remember.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting bw50505 (Reply 6):
Does anyone know what if Spirit will upgrade any SAN flights to A320s like they did last Summer? I checked their website, and came up with nothing.

And MY question regarding Spirit in SAN, bw', is if or when we might see something new in the way of routes or even added frequencies? I admit that NK does have a nice op here -- with 4 nonstop routes served generally daily and all year-round with 5 departures -- but there has been nothing new added since November of 2012 (when both PDX and SJD started.)

SAN has been the 3rd largest operation in the far west by the carrier for a couple of years now, behind only LAS and LA, and we have seen very consistent schedules (which tells me that all 4 routes are probably doing well), but there must be some growth opportunity of some kind left for NK in America's Finest City.

One destination that I've wondered a lot about (sometimes aloud on A.net) is SAN-ORD; Spirit has run a daily, one-stop, roundtrip in the market for quite a long time now, and that tells me that there must be good traffic flow there. Also, the airline is expanding service between ORD and other w/c stations (OAK and PDX for example) and in fact, in 2014, every western Spirit station except SAN is seeing nonstop service to O'Hare!

I would also think MSP, IAH, TLC (for MEX), and even OAK, might be possible growth possibilities from Lindbergh Field.

In a totally unrelated question, I wonder if Spirit's Manager of Route Planning still lives right here in Sandy Eggo???

Anyway, I'm happy that Spirit seems to be doing well with their ops here, including their only intl ops west of DFW (SAN-Cabo), but I'd love to see them expand by adding another destination or two at some point.

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:12 am

Here's a photo of Rouge departing San Diego this morning! I believe this is the first departure from SAN.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/13542243745/
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting sdbravo (Reply 8):
Here's a photo of Rouge departing San Diego this morning!

AC Rouge sure has one of the best logos!
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SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:28 pm

Did anyone see the thread that DL is jumping into the SAN-SJD fray?
Possibly another slap at AS?

[Edited 2014-04-01 11:33:31]
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 10):
Did anyone see the thread that DL is jumping into the SAN-SJD fray? Possibly another slap at AS?

I'm going to post on that thread next (which I saw this morning.)

I hate to say this but so far DL and WN have been shooting across AS's bow here in SAN for a few months now and the only reaction (by AS) so far has been a pull-back of frequency in their SEA-SAN service for the (peak) summer schedule! This is certainly not what I had hoped to see but this is part of what has me somewhat disturbed by AS's recent outlook in SAN. (BTW, I see SLC-SAN as part of a "SLC-thing" and not a "SAN-thing so I don't really count that as a retaliatory move against DL here.)

I know AS is very SEA-centric right now but I'm afraid they might lose the great strides they've been achieving lately here by completely ignoring all that is happening this year at Lindbergh (by DL and WN.)

This move by DL is very intriguing. They have had (or maybe still do have?) other SAN-Mexico routes that they've just sat on; I'm sure one was SAN-PVR and I believe they had (have?) SAN-MEX -- from the WA days -- and have done nothing with any of those authorities for decades. Rather than dusting off the SAN-PVR authorization and starting that route, while still poking AS with a stick, but with a route that does NOT have another daily flight by another carrier (NK), they jump into Cabo with everyone else!

Even MEX would make more sense to me for DL to re-start, as it too is only served by one other carrier (Y4), and that service is spotty at best.

  

bb
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:32 am

I think this SAN-SJD application is pretty interesting also. I'd like to assume that Delta isn't just applying for the route in order to annoy or prey on Alaska, so this makes me wonder if that many Delta passengers have been flying on AS metal to date. Could this be a preemptory Delta move in the expectation that AS and DL will soon reduce the scope of their existing agreement?

Thinking further on the question of the dormant or extinct Delta SAN-MEX authority, I assume it wasn't necessary for DL to fly this route so long as it was offered by Aeromexico. But with AM out of SAN, perhaps it could be resumed by DL, especially if Delta would want to try to funnel Seattle passengers into Mexico via SAN.

Another thought is that perhaps DL sees an opportunity to expand in SAN as other legacy airlines (UA & AA, in particular) seem to be scaling back their operations.

Maybe these ideas are just wishful thinking, but I'd be curious to see what the rest of you think.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting lindy field (Reply 12):
Maybe these ideas are just wishful thinking, but I'd be curious to see what the rest of you think.

I have a couple more thoughts on the topic. From the other thread, here is what was (apparently) applied for:

Quote:
DL has applied for daily seasonal SAN-SJD.

The fact that DL is planning on running SAN-SJD seasonally might be an important factor. Considering that neither AS nor NK seem to consider the route seasonal - except for a few months with slightly reduced frequency -- could DL's plans imply that perhaps they will be going for, as mentioned, SJD business from other points beyond SAN? DL, I believe, has already announced nonstop service from SEA to Cabo this winter so SEA-SAN-SJD seems an unlikely strategy.

Or could it be that DL wanted to grab the "final" US-carrier authorization for the route before someone else did? Like WN perhaps?

I would love to agree with you, Lindy', that perhaps DL is going to start some sort of growth spurt in SAN. I was hopeful for this when DL last added the infamous and very short-lived SAN-HNL flight a few years ago, and of course nothing ever came of that. DL, just like UA and AA, has absolutely no p-2-p service from Lindbergh at this point so if this SJD-route does begin, it COULD be a sign of things to come...

I've thought for a long time that service from SAN to Mexico by US cx (as opposed to what AM and Y4 have offered) to routes like GDL, MEX and MZT, would do well. I think AS is proof of that, as is NK. I've wondered if AS would at some point try GDL or MEX and I would love to see NK maybe try SAN-TLC. And who knows what WN might have in mind? Perhaps DL is now thinking along these lines as well...

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
I would love to see NK maybe try SAN-TLC

IIRC, I do believe that Y4 has at the DOT applied for and received the authority to fly nonstop SAN-TLC, and this application happened simultaneously as Y4 applied for same DEN-TLC nonstop authority and had it approved. Y4 also applied for GDL-DEN and CUU-DEN a while ago (around the same time of TLC-DEN/SAN, or maybe just a few days afterwards), and after about 6 months, finally announced a couple of weeks ago that both DEN routes would be starting 1X weekly this July. So...... this is encouraging with at least some progress. And somehow (anyone feel free to correct here if I'm mistaken) Y4 received an additional bird into their fleet which sparked the DEN routes to happen.

Now.... for both SAN and DEN TLC authorities to emerge into flight realities may be dependent upon Y4 receiving some additional birds into their fleet, which again, IIRC, one or two more birds may be on their way here. So..... as Y4 gets these birds, will they finally fill some more of these presently approved but not yet served U.S. authorities, and get both SAN and DEN having nonstops to TLC? I personally think that when fleet is situated for it, then both SAN and DEN will see these TLC routes happen, even if it is just 1X weekly at the start.

So..... just wanting to be encouraging here. Since Y4 actually did make some hay here at DEN (and sorta knocked my socks of with that, my thinking was mostly that these authorities would just be squatted on indefinitely) maybe they will with SAN as well, since I think that TLC-SAN would be a good market. I would also think that with very low frequencies to initiate (1X - 2X weekly) that Y4 wouldn't have any problem filling these planes with premium O&D, both with SAN and DEN.

 
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 14):
So..... just wanting to be encouraging here.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, point2'.

I don't know if Y4's fleet is so tight that they couldn't have come up with a couple of once-a-week flights (such as the new DEN ones) without needing new metal in-house. They do seem to operate a lot of flights that are sub-daily. But you may be right.

One thing that I've wondered about regarding SAN (and DEN) is whether Volaris would keep MEX service or replace it with TLC? From the US, I'm not sure if MEX and TLC would be considered separate markets or not? If they are not separate, there seems no reason why they wouldn't have already simply substituted a couple of TLC-SAN flights for some MEX-SAN frequency. In other words, would Y4 eventually have flights from SAN and DEN to BOTH TLC and MEX?

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:49 pm

In regards to AS and SAN, on page 8 of AS's new sustainability report (http://www.alaskaair.com/~/media/Files/PDF/CSR/Sustainability-Report_2013.pdf) Alaska says it operates from its hubs in Anchorage, Los Angeles, Portland, San Diego, and Seattle.

This is the first time I have seen SAN referred to as a Hub. Has any one seen that before, or is it new?
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 16):
In regards to AS and SAN, on page 8 of AS's new sustainability report, Alaska says it operates from its hubs in Anchorage, Los Angeles, Portland, San Diego, and Seattle.
This is the first time I have seen SAN referred to as a Hub. Has any one seen that before, or is it new?

Wow! What a great find, gm'! (I'm unable to download the report to actually see it for myself...)

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, this is the first sighting of any sort of station status upgrade seen or heard regarding SAN; I've never even seen us mentioned officially as a key or focus city before.

If this isn't some sort of error, I see it as great and very welcome news - the first good news in a while from the folks at AAG (regarding SAN.)

Thanks for sharing this with us!

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:31 pm

SANFan, that was the direct link to the PDF report all 93 pages of it. You might be be able to get to the report from this link. http://www.alaskaair.com/content/abo...us/sustainability/our-mission.aspx

Assuming someone was not over zealous in the report, this sounds like a good question for the first quarter conference call coming up.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 18):
SANFan, that was the direct link to the PDF report all 93 pages of it. You might be be able to get to the report from this link. http://www.alaskaair.com/content/abo...us/sustainability/our-mission.aspx

Thanks, I finally got it open; my computer was just a bit constipated getting the whole .pdf to open! I've already screenshot page 8 and saved the entire document.

But well worth the wait! Like I said before, wow! What a lovely sight to see -- SAN officially listed as a HUB in an Alaska publication!

Quoting gmcc (Reply 18):
Assuming someone was not over zealous in the report, this sounds like a good question for the first quarter conference call coming up.

I'm sure you're right that it WILL be asked and I think I know who will ask it. (There's one fellow who invariably asks something about SAN.) And yes, let's hope it was NOT a mistake!

In a related note, I saw in a press release a few days ago about AS starting an online self-tagging (baggage) option, that 3 routes from SEA were selected for the roll-out of the new service: ANC, JNU and SAN. Here's the link if anyone's interested:
http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20140328_075422.asp

Very nice to see all this coming from AS!

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 16):
This is the first time I have seen SAN referred to as a Hub. Has any one seen that before, or is it new?

Maybe this is finally a response from AS regarding DL and WN making moves against them?
If that's the case, you can be sure SAN will be back in WN's top-ten. I was also looking again
at DL's SAN-SJD flight, it's supposed to be seasonal,but operated by a 738. (that sure beats a
regional jet to SJD!) But I have a bad feeling this flight is not going to last long. DL should be
looking at YVR from SAN instead of SJD.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 12):
Another thought is that perhaps DL sees an opportunity to expand in SAN as other legacy airlines (UA & AA, in particular) seem to be scaling back their operations.

I hope this is the case. I was kind of hoping UA would bring back the widebodies since they moved
to T-2W, with gates that can handle widebodies. I would love to see an occasional UA 763, instead of
all the usual A320s,'A319s,and 737s.
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point2point
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:00 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 16):
I have seen SAN referred to as a Hub
Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
SAN officially listed as a HUB in an Alaska publication!

Really moving up in the world over there at SAN, eh? First BA and LHR, then those long awaited Florida nonstops, and the JL and NRT, then some added Mexico......... and now a HUB....... pretty good for an airport with a total of one runway....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
One thing that I've wondered about regarding SAN (and DEN) is whether Volaris would keep MEX service or replace it with TLC? From the US, I'm not sure if MEX and TLC would be considered separate markets or not? If they are not separate, there seems no reason why they wouldn't have already simply substituted a couple of TLC-SAN flights for some MEX-SAN frequency. In other words, would Y4 eventually have flights from SAN and DEN to BOTH TLC and MEX?

That's a pretty good question....... from what I can gather here, LAS and SAT are the only two stations that have nonstops to both MEX and TLC, and not even from the same carrier. So what Y4 would do here is a big guess on my part, since Y4 already had both MEX-SAN/DEN when they applied for TLC, so I would guess that TLC would be in addition to...... I suppose that a 1X or 2X weekly could be done, since Y4 already has ops with all stations involved.

 
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
pretty good for an airport with a total of one runway....

Dang right ... and a total airport size of 661 acres!

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
So what Y4 would do here is a big guess on my part, since Y4 already had both MEX-SAN/DEN when they applied for TLC,

If I 'member correctly, didn't Y4 switch OAK from one airport to the other a year or two ago? (I think it was TLC to MEX.)

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
and now a HUB.......

I shouldn't be taking this so seriously (and importantly) but it if it proves to be a true reflection of AAG's viewpoint, I can't help but feel terrific about their future here -- and SAN's!

Of course we all know that it won't be truly official until AS's Wikipedia page is updated!  
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 20):
I was also looking again at DL's SAN-SJD flight, it's supposed to be seasonal but operated by a 738. (that sure beats a regional jet to SJD!)

Yeah, the fact that it's a mainline a/c might be a clue to what's going on too. But I still don't know what that is. (I think DL already has nonstop service from all it's hubs to Cabo so where else would DL be getting traffic to connect to this SAN-SJD service?)

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 20):
But I have a bad feeling this flight is not going to last long. DL should be looking at YVR from SAN instead of SJD

You're remembering the HNL-service too, eh L-Man? LOL. So maybe DL will do YVR-SAN-SJD -- now THAT would be fantastic!!!!

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:38 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Dang right ... and a total airport size of 661 acres!

Wow, really..... I think that's almost the size of DEN's terminal that sits on some 34,560 total acres of land (lol)........

 
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:59 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
Wow, really..... I think that's almost the size of DEN's terminal that sits on some 34,560 total acres of land (lol)........

Yep, but we need to also keep in mind that this tiny airport is only about 2 miles from downtown Sandy Eggo (and that's probably one of the reasons it's still there!)

bb
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
You're remembering the HNL-service too, eh L-Man?

That debacle did cross my mind!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
maybe DL will do YVR-SAN-SJD -- now THAT would be fantastic!!!!

That would be fantastic,and thinking outside the box too!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 24):
we need to also keep in mind that this tiny airport is only about 2 miles from downtown Sandy Eggo (and that's probably one of the reasons it's still there!)

And it has one of the most dramatic views of downtown (from the plane) when coming in for a night landing,
and remember, SAN is a historical landmark too!  
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gmcc
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:40 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
and now a HUB.......

I shouldn't be taking this so seriously (and importantly) but it if it proves to be a true reflection of AAG's viewpoint, I can't help but feel terrific about their future here -- and SAN's!

Further speculating on the AS HUB theme. the one thing that all the other hubs have that SAN does not have is a Board Room. Maybe there is a Board Room in SAN future. AS might even be willing to run a shuttle service between LAX and SAN on Q's like SEA/GEG.   
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 26):
Further speculating on the AS HUB theme. the one thing that all the other hubs have that SAN does not have is a Board Room. Maybe there is a Board Room in SAN future.

I was going to mention this (along with number of gates at SAN, etc.) but every time I've brought up the subject of a Board Room (in the old UA Club space in T1W), it's been met with either complete disinterest or total silence. Therefore, even though your point is quite valid, I've given up on that speculation.

(I have no idea if that space, the former UA Club, is still sitting empty or if maybe it's been turned into some sort of crew lounge or op's space for AS...)

bb
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:14 pm

I brought up this possibility in another thread a while back. Maybe AS
is going to wait and see what the final plans are with T-1 before moving
ahead with a Board Room? I'm just speculating.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 27):
(I have no idea if that space, the former UA Club, is still sitting empty or if maybe it's been turned into some sort of crew lounge or op's space for AS...)

Has anyone been down there recently?Maybe there's a Board Room under construction?
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:54 am

Speaking of land size, what are they building next to Landmark? I sadly fly more out of CRQ now so last week was my first time in a couple months to see SAN.
 
Hayseuss
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 29):

They are building a centralized rental car facility. We've needed one for years IMO.
 
bw50505
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:01 pm

2 SPA B732's flew in from TUS this morning:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...3/history/20140406/1415Z/KTUS/KSAN

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...2/history/20140406/1515Z/KTUS/KSAN

SPA712 is currently en route at the time of this posting. They are each scheduled to depart for BIF (Fort Bliss, TX) before noon PDT. Can anyone get regs on them? I won't be able to get close enough to get the registrations.
Flown on: A319 A320 B734 B737 B738 B752 CRJ DHC2 DH8 E135/145 E190 MD80 ...and more that I can't remember.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:09 pm

Quoting gmcc (Reply 16):
Alaska says it operates from its hubs in Anchorage, Los Angeles, Portland, San Diego, and Seattle.

Perhaps they've confused "Hubs" with "Flight Attendant Bases"? Love following this thread, btw!

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
bw50505
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting bw50505 (Reply 31):

Nevermind, I just found out SPA only has 2 a/c in their fleet, 703S and 712S, hence the flight numbers.
Flown on: A319 A320 B734 B737 B738 B752 CRJ DHC2 DH8 E135/145 E190 MD80 ...and more that I can't remember.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:08 am

About a month ago, bw' provided a glimpse at some of the late Spring and early Summer changes coming up at SAN (from both AA and DL.) It looks like AA's summer sked (eff 6/11/14) is now pretty well set and there are some interesting things to share.
>For the first time in quite a while, AA will be increasing service in a couple of markets: ORD will increase to 5 daily flights for the summer and DFW will be up to 10x daily r/t!
>Included in those 10 trips to Dallas, (for those 757-lovers out there, and you know who you are...) 3 will be on 757s! (And 2 will be 738s and the rest will be MD80s.)
>They are increasing O'Hare flights without benefit of a red-eye. It's been years since AA has offered a night flight out of SAN (except of course for the 'new' MIA departure.)
>There will apparently be no additional JFK flight this summer (as well as no u/g to the 767.) This I continue to find quite interesting.
>The Eagle skeds to LAX are also changing quite a bit: all service will be OO CRJs (no CR7s) and the earliest flight from SAN to LA will be at 8:45am and the latest s/b flt will arrive in SAN at 7:45pm! This seems like major changes to the whole operation, including maybe concentration on int'l connectivity rather than domestic?

So overall, AA will be increasing mainline flying this summer while actually offering fewer seats to LA. I don't know yet what changes we may see in US skeds...

Well, except that there will be no nonstop to DCA any more, thank you so very much American...

bb
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 568
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:05 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 34):
AA will be increasing mainline flying this summer while actually offering fewer seats to LA

That's a little strange, considering AA wants to turn (that big airline magnet called LAX) into
a Pacific gateway. You would think they would be like Delta at SEA by offering more regional
jets for connections.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:05 pm

Hi bb,

Thanks for the AA update, and indeed, I'm glad to see some AA 757s regularly scheduled. But I find the SAN-LAX service info more interesting. I find myself wondering if product differentiation pays any kind of significant dividends in this market, since we have DL using CR7s, CR9s, and E-175s in the market, while AA is going all CR2 and UA has a mix of EMB-120s, CR2s, and CR7s. Does Delta reap any benefits from using more comfortable aircraft or have they simply given themselves a greater challenge in having to fill larger aircraft? Do you think United or AA will need to respond to Delta to stay competitive in the market?

Edward
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:54 am

Well, one important thing about this SAN-LAX situation is that there is very little local (O&D) traffic -- seems it's usually about 90 pax/day total which makes it about, what, 1.5 pax per flight -- so the majority of pax are online connections.

In other words, I don't see the market as very competitive really. I think UA, AA and DL simply fly the capacity that they can fill daily for their own flights, as well as for their partners.

In the case of AA, since they've added more nonstops from SAN to ORD, DFW (and the relatively new MIA flight), their plan may be to route domestic pax over those connecting points rather than via LA. Perhaps that would mean the majority of the pax that Eagle flies from SAN to LAX are connecting to the growing list of int'l departures (plus of course Mexico and Hawaii) out of LA. (As I mentioned earlier, the timing of the new skeds would seem to bear this theory out.)

That's my thinking anyway.

bb
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:15 pm

I know that most of us had given up on PR's interest in serving SAN back in 2008 but I do think, especially for those newer SAN Fans, the subject should be opened up in this thread for at least a bit of discussion.

Here's the link to the latest news on that front: http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=16114

Essentially, as is being discussed on 2 other threads on A.net, the Philippines has been reinstated to CAT I by our FAA so US expansion may now be taken on by the Philippine's air carriers, including PAL.

PR had actually filed with the DOT for MNL-(YVR)-SAN service on January 10, 2008 (3x weekly service to begin later in 2008); a matter of days later, the FAA downgraded the Philippines to CAT II. This was at a time when PR flew 4-5x weekly from MNL to LAS via YVR; this service has subsequently been dropped and YVR is now tied in with MNL-YYZ service.

So the main questions now, for me at least, are: (1) is PR still interested in serving SAN? (2) is their application from 2008 automatically re-activated now? (3) does PR have the necessary (Canadian) authority to still fly MNL-YVR-SAN, or can/would they serve SAN with a different routing, including any nonstop legs?

This could get very exciting for us, or SAN might be the farthest thing from PR's minds as they prepare for upcoming US service changes/increases. But I'm sure there must be some thoughts from others on the subject so please chime in. (And that certainly includes you, L-Man!)

bb
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 568
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:31 pm

I'm simply taking a guarded position on this. (A believe it when I see it stance.)
I thought our chances for PR dimmed when they dropped LAS-YVR-MNL. PR
sure would have SAN-YVR all to themselves while carrying pax across the Pacific to
MNL. Since no airline has jumped on SAN-YVR as of yet, this would be the perfect
opportunity for PR to jump in. Since PR would be carrying pax between SAN-YVR, I
don't think it would affect JL's SAN-NRT flight much at all. Do your work SDIA!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
point2point
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:31 pm

Just as an FYI here, Y4 has petitioned the DOT to renew its SAN-MEX/GLD routes.

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf89/884.pdf

It seems that Y4 is pretty consistent with the SAN-MEX route, now at 4X weekly. However, I don't currently see any Y4 flights that SAN-GDL, but if Y4 is petitioning for the renewal, it must intend to fly the route, even if seasonal. Currently IIRC, there is no competition either SAN-MEX/GLD.

Also hanging around since 10/24/13 is the approval of Y4 to fly TLC-SAN/DEN/MCO, which hasn't gotten around to being started.

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf88/926.pdf

Maybe these too can actually see flights happen one day?

 
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 39):
Do your work SDIA!

I posted on one of the other threads that it appears that the SAN Route Development team is indeed still interested in landing PR here.

Here's a copy of part of the current SAN Int'l Incentive Program info.:
INTERNATIONAL INCENTIVE PROGRAM TARGET LIST EFFECTIVE DATE: FEBRUARY 2012
Market Area...Qualifying Airports
ASIA.............. Any airport in the Republic of the Philippines
EUROPE........None
C AMERICA...Any airport in Central America
S AMERICA...Any airport in South America
OCEANIA.......Any airport in Oceania

Note that ASIA is limited to the Philippines, since JL is still earning their incentives (and will continue to do so through the end of this year.) IOW, it looks like SDIA has hung out the "Welcome" sign very clearly for PAL! (And probably in many more ways than this. In fact, I bet Hampton Brown is making a lot of phone calls to Manila today!)

We'll just have to wait and see if PR is still interested in our fair city.

Quoting point2point (Reply 40):
Just as an FYI here, Y4 has petitioned the DOT to renew its SAN-MEX/GLD routes.

Thanks for the update point'; that's good news. GDL continues to confuse me but I guess Y4 still wants to serve it... at some level of service.

bb
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 38):
This could get very exciting for us, or SAN might be the farthest thing from PR's minds as they prepare for upcoming US service changes/increases. But I'm sure there must be some thoughts from others on the subject so please chime in.

With the biggest (Cat 2) out of the way, two hurdles remain. As pointed out elsewhere, the data don't seem to support the idea. Could be that a regular service would help the numbers rise to a sustainable level...but something more concrete is needed to launch it.


Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 39):
I thought our chances for PR dimmed when they dropped LAS-YVR-MNL. PR sure would have SAN-YVR all to themselves while carrying pax across the Pacific to MNL. Since no airline has jumped on SAN-YVR as of yet, this would be the perfect opportunity for PR to jump in.

Since the attractions of LAS were not enough to keep the tag on, apparently the route would have to depend mainly on O&D traffic for decent load factors to survive. Hopefully, the elimination of the hassle of the drive up to LAX would get more than seasonal VFR traffic or a pricier nonstop (though counter intuitive) might be called for.

Bringing us to the second question of a suitable aircraft. While there are rumblings that PR's replacement fleet makeup has already been decided and that four A359s are rumored for the initial batch of long haul aircraft, that is four years away and destined for Europe.....

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And though an A359 could probably handle SAN and v.v. (with more paying bodies to justify a nonstop) I also think it's a bit too much of an aircraft for it...initially, at least.

Of course, LAX might also want to keep SoCal MNL traffic there and dedicating a different airframe for just this route may not be very advisable. But given MNL is a little farther, is JL able to fly their 787 over SAN terrain at full payload to NRT?

Quoting SANFan (Reply 41):
We'll just have to wait and see if PR is still interested in our fair city.

Then we need to divine where MNL-(XXX)-SAN hangs on PR's priority pole.   
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
realsim
Posts: 514
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 34):
>Included in those 10 trips to Dallas, (for those 757-lovers out there, and you know who you are...) 3 will be on 757s! (And 2 will be 738s and the rest will be MD80s.)

Although only for a month (May 8 to June 10), a daily 763 will operate the route between DFW and SAN.

AA1086 DFW 08:55 SAN 09:55 763 D
AA1086 SAN 10:55 DFW 15:50 763 D
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:57 am

Devilfish (Reply 42):
But given MNL is a little farther, is JL able to fly their 787 over SAN terrain at full payload to NRT?

AFAIK, JL takes no weight penalties between Lindbergh and Narita. And apparently the daily 787 is doing well, leading me to assume the flights are pretty full.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject of PR and SAN, Devil'. As I've said many times, the fact that PR had actually applied for SAN-service in 2008 should IMO have some bearing on the discussion; not terribly important, but it is a fact that circumstances (and traffic, I would suppose) led PR at that time to at least seek the authority to start service at SAN.

I do understand that those circumstances and many other factors will change over a 6-year period, but it's at least worth wondering about the possibility. It is certainly a long shot.

Quoting realsim (Reply 43):
Although only for a month (May 8 to June 10), a daily 763 will operate the route between DFW and SAN.

Yes, thanks for the reminder. This interesting upgrade was reported in the previous thread.

bb
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:48 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 42):
With the biggest (Cat 2) out of the way, two hurdles remain. As pointed out elsewhere, the data don't seem to support the idea. Could be that a regular service would help the numbers rise to a sustainable level...but something more concrete is needed to launch it.

This is surprising given the huge Filipino population here in San Diego. I recently saw a travel show on some of the islands of the Philippines. The beaches were stunning. Perhaps if the airline marketed some vacation packages, they'd get more folks interested - other than those flying back to visit family. I'm certainly looking into a trip.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:53 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 29):
Speaking of land size, what are they building next to Landmark?
Quoting Hayseuss (Reply 30):
They are building a centralized rental car facility.

I think the tall structures going up are airline hangers or some sort of facility for the cargo planes that hang out at that end of the airport. The multitude of posts going up is the multilevel rental facility referred to my Hayseuss.

So once the rental facility opens, will all the rental car agencies located all over the place move into the facility or will they still operate independently?
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1567
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:55 am

What's up with BA 272 this evening? Flight aware lists TWO 772s leaving tonight - BA272 and BA 272A! Was last night's flight canceled?

Somebody better get over there and get some shots if we have two 772s boarding at the same time!
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 45):
I recently saw a travel show on some of the islands of the Philippines. The beaches were stunning

Yeah, I think Survivor is also getting a lot of people to notice the beauty in that part of the world. Haven't the last 3 or 4 seasons of the show taken place in the Philippines?

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 47):
What's up with BA 272 this evening? Flight aware lists TWO 772s leaving tonight - BA272 and BA 272A! Was last night's flight canceled?

I would guess it was one of those famous glitches on F/A. I checked BA's Flight Status last night and it only showed one flight from SAN to LHR, 272. (Of course if there was a second one, it might've been ferried home empty.) I also noticed just yesterday that F/A didn't show any a history of ANY flight BAW272 departing for SAN for about the last few days of March, or the first 11 days of April... And BAW273 has been listed for every day.   

(Hey JA', good to see you here on this thread.)

bb
 
san88
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:30 am

RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume 3

Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 47):
Somebody better get over there and get some shots if we have two 772s boarding at the same time!

I'm not sure our tiny airport with 3 international gates can handle two 777's at the same time   ??? I could be wrong.
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN

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