avibeast
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IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:49 am

Being born and raised in the Washington, D.C. Area, IAD I have witnessed tremendous growth in international airlines and destinations that operate in IAD. Any predictions for the near future as to what new airlines/destinations dulles will see?? Air China is starting service to Beijing in June!

[Edited 2014-03-26 19:10:44]

[Edited 2014-03-26 19:11:15]

[Edited 2014-03-26 19:11:35]
 
lhcvg
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:49 pm

Not having any insider info myself, I'd say IAD is pretty well situated as-is, and has to contend with what ORD or EWR offer within the UA network as well.

So, my thinking from that point goes that IAD will probably not see much drastic unless we start to see some 787s flow in there to open up new connections like, say, HKG. EWR covers a lot of the smaller European stuff that IAD doesn't yet serve, especially on the routes where the extra 200 or so miles to IAD are too much for the 757s. Likewise, IAH does well for LATAM, and SFO/LAX (plus ORD really) offer great Asian connectivity to the places IAD doesn't yet serve, but you probably can't justify say IAD-NGO.

I should add that as an IAD lover for international travel, I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of as far as their international coverage is concerned -- the Air China to PEK is great, but the roster of airlines and destinations is still quite respectable I'd say and I have no complaints.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:00 pm

IAD is a city that gets flights from capitals as opposed to manufacturing or commercial cities. I doubt you'd see service out of PVG or KIX or DUS.

You could see some more capital flights that we don't have now (or used to have): OSL, MAD, ATH, etc.

I think one flight that could do well here but isn't served is DEL. Sizeable indian population and a good candidate flight.

How about TLV?
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:12 pm

Yes, the capital to capital service would make sense. I think at one point Air India did serve IAD-DEL, but just for a few months. A few airlines, Iberia, Alitalia, and Swiss at one point did serve, but suspended operations.. Would love to see more Middle Eastern/North African routes, specifically Royal Jordanian to AMM and Royal Air Maroc to CMN, perhaps? As far as the Middle East goes, they got pretty much covered. (DXB, AUH, DOH, JED, RIYADH, BAH(Ibelieve..?), KWI)

Turkish with IST in my opinion seems to have been successful.. Many people I know have used the airline for connections to the Middle East, Africa and India.

It would be interesting to see the airport operate more destinations to Far East Asia or maybe even Australia..? United has a pretty good hub going over at IAD.

Also, BA is set to introduce the A380 service to IAD beginning September 1st!
 
solarflyer22
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 2):
I think one flight that could do well here but isn't served is DEL. Sizeable indian population and a good candidate flight.

How about TLV?

Yeah, I'm shcoked TLV is not connected and I can see DEL or mumbai in the future. Its a nice medium size hub. I think the 787 will be great in IAD as it doesn't need the huge capacity of the A380 on most routes. Emirates and Etihad recently connected DC to UAE though. There is also a flight JNB which is nice. Is Tokyo connected?
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:25 pm

NRT, PEK, and ICN are the three east asian cities.
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:34 pm

NRT is connected by United and ANA. Yeah, strange that TLV isn't served.. I think the B/A Concourse would be enough to fill up all the international flights that are not United operated. Singapore, Bangkok, Sydney, or even Eastern Europe perhaps? JFK ofcourse exceeds IAD in international destinations, but for serving the US Capital, it would be nice to see a couple of additions to international routes.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:37 pm

I agree--BOM or DEL would be a great addition.

Having grown up in Northern Virginia, IAD was always a cheap date when I was in high school in the late 60's. Twenty-two mile drive out there on the access road, a quiet outside viewing area to watch "The" airplane takeoff or land and then a coke in the terminal. And to think Washingtonians used to deride it as "The Great White Elephant."
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:50 pm

DTWPurserBoy, I wish you could still watch planes like that in IAD! Unfortunately, plane spotting is pain in IAD unlike in DCA.. Wish the airport had plane spotting potential besides the air and space museum which costs $15 to park before 4 when all the European heavies usually land..

Would be interesting to see how Air China will do against United's current operation to PEK..
 
Natflyer
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 1):
I should add that as an IAD lover for international travel, I don't think there is anything to be ashamed of as far as their international coverage is concerned -- the Air China to PEK is great, but the roster of airlines and destinations is still quite respectable I'd say and I have no complaints.

Arriving at IAD in the mid to late afternoon rush can´t be anybody´s favourite. Those archaic "mobile lounges", a ´70s era idea and the poorly manned CBP facility. Arrived there recently and there was chaos, the CBP officer told me, 1500 pax in about an hour and 10 CBP Officers. Shameful for the Capital´s International Airport.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:03 pm

I assume there is a variant of the 777 that can make DEL-IAD? I see Air India flies EWR-DEL which is 200 miles closer.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 9):
Those archaic "mobile lounges", a ´70s era idea and the poorly manned CBP facility

The mobile lounges go back to when President Kennedy opened the airport in 1962. They have been rebuilt so many times--one operator told me that they actually had to machine-make some parts for them.

They are kind of iconic to IAD--that and the booming male voice that used to make the flight arrival and departure announcements and the "flip-flip-flip" sound as the flight information boards changed.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
AA777
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 9):
Arriving at IAD in the mid to late afternoon rush can´t be anybody´s favourite. Those archaic "mobile lounges", a ´70s era idea and the poorly manned CBP facility. Arrived there recently and there was chaos, the CBP officer told me, 1500 pax in about an hour and 10 CBP Officers. Shameful for the Capital´s International Airport.

The mobile lounges really arent that bad. After flying 8 hours you're tired anyways, you sit on the mobile lounge, get a decent view of the planes/airfield... and they drop you right at the CBP area. If its not one thing its another. In Miami you walk what feels like 100 miles (everyone practically scrambling) to get to the customs/passport control area. THEN it takes forever to get through the line and your chances of getting pulled to xray for customs in Miami seem 5x as high. Other airports you take some sort of an automated train, which isn't that awesome either.... you just get crammed into the train... it's really not that different.

I dont think the lines at IAD are that much worse than MIA, ORD, and LHR when they are very busy. Such is the nature of travel. You deal with it or else you become a miserable person.

AA777
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:23 pm

I think due to the 1960s design, they have no choice but to continue using the mobile lounges.. Which Don't find too bad after arriving . You get dropped off at CBP right away. I was lucky last summer. My air france flight landed an hour late in the afternoon after the European arrival rush.. Even though the airport has a way to go to get on level with Singapore, ICN or even Amsterdam Schipohl, I love the airport and it's unique design, was born and raised in the DC area and have always used it for international travel.. Waiting to see what the future has in store for IAD. Wish there were more plane spotting opportunities!
 
jfidler
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:26 am

I read a while ago that IAD had more flights to the Middle East than any other US airport. Is that still the case?

As for new flights to add, I'd say BER, TLV, and SIN would be good candidates.
 
IADLHR
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:36 am

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 2):
You could see some more capital flights that we don't have now (or used to have): OSL, MAD, ATH, etc.

I think TXL-IAD is one of the most glaring gaps at IAD, I really dont think TXL will happen but I do have some hope that BER-IAD will become a reality at some point down the road.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 9):
Arrived there recently and there was chaos, the CBP officer told me, 1500 pax in about an hour and 10 CBP Officers. Shameful for the Capital´s International Airport.

I mean shameful is a little over the top but certainly antiquated. I like the mobile lounges but they are expensive and apparently gas guzzlers. If anything is shameful, it is the very long lines at CBP. They always look overwhelmed and unfriendly in the non-US citizen line.

There are a number of flights to/from the middle east at IAD including UA. I suspect at some point Etihad or UA will reduce frequency. There seems to be too much lift. TK also started to IST not too long ago along with Qatar going to Doha.

I would love to see SIN or SYD added. I don't think any plane can make it to SYD non-stop though.
 
LoudounHound
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:17 am

For the Euro area, TLV and BER will happen sooner rather than later. Secondary *A markets like WAW may happen down the road. LIS, OSL, ATH and MXP are less likely in the short term.

The African market has a lot of potential. Royal Air Maroc was supposed to start CMN a couple years ago. If Egypt settles down, CAI will happen. LOS and NBO are also possibilities.

In Asian, I wouldn't be surprised to see UA add ICN to compete against KE, but I don't anticipate too many other new Asian routes. HKG and TPE are longshots.

In the South American market, LIM, GIG, SCL, BSB, CCS and EZE come to mind. The most likely within the next couple years is LIM. I think we can also anticipate a couple Caribbean leisure destinations, and perhaps something in Central America like SJO.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting LoudounHound (Reply 17):

The African market has a lot of potential. Royal Air Maroc was supposed to start CMN a couple years ago. If Egypt settles down, CAI will happen. LOS and NBO are also possibilities.
Quoting LoudounHound (Reply 17):
In the South American market, LIM, GIG, SCL, BSB, CCS and EZE come to mind. The most likely within the next couple years is LIM. I think we can also anticipate a couple Caribbean leisure destinations, and perhaps something in Central America like SJO.

Yeah good points. I think you're right. Africa and Latin America are probably where the future growth is at. Plus IAD is far enough south some A320s can reach Central American destinations.
 
crazyguineapig
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:33 am

To everyone who suggested TLV: That would be a great destination for IAD, problem is El Al's widebody fleet seems to have a pretty full schedule. I wonder why UA hasn't (re)introduced TLV.

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 15):

Word, good call

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 10):

I'd assume at least one leg of the flight would have to stop somewhere to DEL if a 772LR was carrying enough weight. The only reason I say this is because one leg of IAD-ADD with Ethiopian has to stop in Rome, even with the 772LR. But don't just take my word for it I'm not too familiar with the range of MTOW 772LR. DEL or any metropolis of India, Pakistan, or Bangladesh would be an automatic success for IAD, the only issue with the Pakistani or Bengali destinations is that anything further than DEL may really be pushing on range, but I'm not 100% sure.


EDIT: Just saw LoudounHound's post about north Africa, sorry for repeating. I completely agree though, any destination to northern Africa could be a big hit. Lots and lots of Moroccans, Egyptians, Algerians here!

If relations between US and Iran improve some more, boy would IAD-IKA be a really, really interesting flight. I know, some people are going to say it's way too unrealistic (JFK would come first I guess) and too long of a flight but if anyone lives in the Northern VA area you'll agree that the amount of Persian folks here would justify at least considering such a route!

Come on guys. You gotta love the mobile lounges. Maybe with the "skytrain" they won't last much longer, so we should enjoy their uniqueness while we can I think  

[Edited 2014-03-27 19:35:48]
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:48 am

Royal Air Maroc with CMN would be great, it would provide a connection point to Western Africa and even to the gulf region.. BER would be interesting but how would it compete against the two big German Hubs of Frankfurt and Munich? Once United gets the new concourse built, that could change operations for them and increase the number of international destinations. The current. C/D concourse is a dump unfortunately!
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 am

At one point in the late 1990s, PIA use to operate an IAD-Karachi /Islamabad flight I remember.. Any potential in Central Asia maybe?? Tashkent, Almaty, or even Baku, Tblisi?
 
MWAAdude
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 19):
The only reason I say this is because one leg of IAD-ADD with Ethiopian has to stop in Rome, even with the 772LR.

The reason that this flight has to make a stop coming back west is because of the altitude and climate of ADD. The runway just isn't long enough to facilitate a non-stop back to IAD.
 
as739x
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:59 am

Quoting Avibeast (Reply 6):
Singapore, Bangkok, Sydney



Not a chance. Way out of the range of any aircraft profitabliy.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
AF022
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 9):
Arriving at IAD in the mid to late afternoon rush can´t be anybody´s favourite

I've arrived a few times at IAD from Ethiopian's flight from Addis and it has been a breeze to get through passport control. I've started thinking about this when arriving other airports too. If I fly New York home to Paris I always take the last flight on AF because it the only arrival flight at that hour at CDG from overseas. This can save me hours sometimes.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 19):
I wonder why UA hasn't (re)introduced TLV.

Three letters: E W R
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
avibeast
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting af022 (Reply 24):

Yup! that makes a difference in security waiting times in IAD. I flew the Air France flight that was suppose to arrive at 12:30 in the afternoon. It arrived at around 2, so I was lucky to beat the European arrival rush. Best tip is to choose an arrival flight in the evening.
 
YoungDon
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:21 pm

Quoting Avibeast (Reply 26):
Yup! that makes a difference in security waiting times in IAD. I flew the Air France flight that was suppose to arrive at 12:30 in the afternoon. It arrived at around 2, so I was lucky to beat the European arrival rush. Best tip is to choose an arrival flight in the evening.

I took UA from PEK to IAD a few months back and the flight arrived around 1930 or so. The lines at immigration were very short (as I believe we were the only flight coming in around that time), but we waited for about 45 minutes for the people movers to take us to the IAB. Is it normal to wait so long for a people mover during an off-peak time, and if so, why?
 
eastern023
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Quoting LoudounHound (Reply 17):
In the South American market, LIM, GIG, SCL, BSB, CCS and EZE come to mind. The most likely within the next couple years is LIM. I think we can also anticipate a couple Caribbean leisure destinations, and perhaps something in Central America like SJO.

LAN (LP) has filed for LIM-IAD but never started. GIG and SAL were recently axed (or about to) by UA from IAD. For us Washingtonians JFK/EWR, MIA or ATL continue to be the best gateways to (deep) South America. IAH/DFW are just inconveniently out of the way.
Ladeco (UC) flew SCL-MIA-IAD-JFK before moving ops to BWI in the 90's. Multi stop flights were common, different than nowadays.

Greetings from IAD

[Edited 2014-03-28 12:39:01]
AA will Rise Again!
 
Viscount724
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RE: IAD International Potential

Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:53 pm

Quoting MWAAdude (Reply 22):
Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 19):
The only reason I say this is because one leg of IAD-ADD with Ethiopian has to stop in Rome, even with the 772LR.

The reason that this flight has to make a stop coming back west is because of the altitude and climate of ADD.

I think it's mainly the elevation. Like most cities above 7,000 ft., ADD rarely experiences very high temperatures. According to Wikipedia, the record high temperature is only 32C (90F) and the average high in every month of the year doesn't exceed the mid-20s C (70s F).
 
Fastphilly
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:01 am

Washington DC has a nice mix of foreign carriers for a market it's size. Plus the international network out of IAD isn't so focused on one region so the variety of intercontinental tails is nice. I'm a bit jealous of that ET bird at IAD. Would love to see one at SFO.

Yeah I know, but I can still dream about it. lol.
 
flyiguy
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:39 am

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 30):
Plus the international network out of IAD isn't so focused on one region so the variety of intercontinental tails is nice.

Between 0700-1300 you have ET, EK, SA, NH, KE, AV, CM, & AM
Between 1300-2400 you have KL, TK, CM, AV, QR, SN, SV, SU, EY, LH, OS, SK, BA, AF, VS & PD

SO there is quite a nice variety of tails to see throughout the day not to mention the diplomatic, and foreign military tails we get here on a regular basis.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
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ua900
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting Avibeast (Reply 20):
BER would be interesting but how would it compete against the two big German Hubs of Frankfurt and Munich? Once United gets the new concourse built, that could change operations for them and increase the number of international destinations. The current. C/D concourse is a dump unfortunately!

Nothing against Berlin but the connections and facilities that FRA and MUC have just can't be matched by BER under any current plan of theirs. Current C/D is a total disgrace. Those low ceilings and that wannabe ORD rainbow along with the worn out clubs and lack of moving walkways do not convey that IAD is an important city.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 16):
I mean shameful is a little over the top but certainly antiquated. I like the mobile lounges but they are expensive and apparently gas guzzlers. If anything is shameful, it is the very long lines at CBP. They always look overwhelmed and unfriendly in the non-US citizen line.

There are a number of flights to/from the middle east at IAD including UA. I suspect at some point Etihad or UA will reduce frequency. There seems to be too much lift. TK also started to IST not too long ago along with Qatar going to Doha.

This should get solved within the next few years as Global Entry is rolled out to more non-citizens and more US customs pre-clearance facilities come online. Middle East is a prime example of a region pushing and paying for that.

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 15):
I think TXL-IAD is one of the most glaring gaps at IAD, I really dont think TXL will happen but I do have some hope that BER-IAD will become a reality at some point down the road.

Not as long as UA has the 752 to EWR I'm afraid. LH won't invest in a FRA/MUC style lounge in BER if LH doesn't operate a single three cabin flight out of BER. With LH's recent decision to make BER the 4U hub it looks very unlikely to see a LH 332 or 343 based in BER once that airport finally opens in 2025.
2016: BOG | BUR | CAI | EWR | FRA | GVA | IAD | IAH | LAX | LED | LIM | ORD | PTY | SAL | SFO | SJU | TXL | VIE | ZRH
 
Natflyer
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:52 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 31):

I think FI is there as well in the afternoon?
 
flyiguy
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:12 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 33):

Yup, forgot about Iceland Air...They are seasonal but still the flight departs around 1900.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:26 pm

I do think we'll see a flight from IAD to BER once the new Berlin Brandenburg Airport finally opens. The reason is simple: a lot of traffic by government officials between Berlin and Washington, DC. The route will likely be served by either UA using the 787-9 or LH with the A340-300 (initially) and switching to the A350XWB-900 once that becomes available.
 
bjorn14
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RE: IAD International Potential

Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:10 pm

I think IAD-BOM/DEL is doable. KL had a one-stop to DEL in the early 2000's because of all the Indians that flew the route.
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