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KarelXWB
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New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:23 pm

Business class travelers, heads up: Lufthansa finished the first A380 cabin reconfiguration in HAM. The jet with registration D-AIMB is now equipped with fully-flat J beds and was ferried back to FRA today. The airline also took delivery of D-AIMK today, a brand-new A380 featuring the new J seats as well.

Although Lufthansa has yet to reveal images of the new cabin, the seat map bellow shows the product will be (almost) the same as the 747-8i fleet.

Old configuration with 98 J seats:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/iwrczo.jpg

New configuration with 92 J seats:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2dt6ges.jpg

http://mobile.lufthansa.com/static/s...tmaps/LH_A380-800_Oberdeck_y12.pdf

[Edited 2014-04-01 13:38:02]
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:04 pm

Isn't it amazing? Practically brand new airplanes are already obsolete customer service wise and are being retrofitted. Who would ever have thought it but it just goes to show how much high value customers mean to LH and the entire industry.

It is starting to remind me of the old trans-Atlantic ocean liner days when steerage passengers paid for the trip and first class was just pure profit.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:12 pm

Not really surprising as they put an archaic (relatively) product on a new airplane.
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n515cr
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:20 pm

What's the rollout schedule for the retrofits?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 1):
Practically brand new airplanes are already obsolete customer service wise and are being retrofitted.

JL/NH put some pretty dreadful seats on their new 787s too; makes you wonder if it's timing or incompetence. Or both.
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na
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

And very soon PY will be added.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Not really surprising as they put an archaic (relatively) product on a new airplane.

The new J-class wasnt ready when the first ten A380s were delivered to LH.
The first new A380 since summer 2012, D-AIMK, was delivered today. I wonder if it already has the new Premium Economy seats as well.

Quoting n515cr (Reply 3):

What's the rollout schedule for the retrofits?

D-AIMB was the first and so far only one which was refurbished. The others will follow rather soon as it fits into the schedule.
 
infinit
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:13 am

Never taken LH in J but doesn't 2-2-2 sounds pretty cramped for long haul J?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:56 am

From the looks of the seatmap, it looks like the BE Diamond seat that KL, UA, etc. use.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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DexSwart
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:28 am

And then there is AF. Still trudging along with their circa 2002 designed seats... :P

It's crazy how many airlines are retrofitting new aircraft with updated products.
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daumueller
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:47 am

Quoting na (Reply 5):
D-AIMB was the first and so far only one which was refurbished. The others will follow rather soon as it fits into the schedule.

actually it's D-AIMB and D-AIMK with D-AIMA being in the shop right now.
 
wzafar
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:57 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 6):

How about a 2-3-2 J config on an EK 77W?  
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting na (Reply 5):
The first new A380 since summer 2012, D-AIMK, was delivered today. I wonder if it already has the new Premium Economy seats as well.

The Premium Economy seats are not ready yet and will be installed during 2015.

Quoting na (Reply 5):
D-AIMB was the first and so far only one which was refurbished.
Quoting daumueller (Reply 9):
actually it's D-AIMB and D-AIMK with D-AIMA being in the shop right now.

Na is right: D-AIMK was not refurbished, it has the new seats straight out of the factory.

[Edited 2014-04-02 00:41:36]
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daumueller
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
Na is right: D-AIMK was not refurbished, it has the new seats straight out of the factory.

fair Point, though I understood the original question to be about "how many planes can I expect to have the new seat when"  
 
infinit
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:04 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 10):

Ah yes. I hadn't taken EK in J as well and 2-3-2 sounds like its pushing it. My only long haul flights in J have been on SQ's 1-2-1 long haul product.

Another user suggested it doesn't feel cramped at all. Of course I wouldn't judge since I haven't taken it myself but I was merely a little doubtful at first. I am open to trying LH's J product and being a Star Alliance loyalist I'm sure it's a matter of time before I do.
 
asetiadi
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:47 am

I thought long haul business class (J) are under 1-2-1 configuration as today's standard. Why they are still using 2-2-2? That's more like for regional business class.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:54 am

Quoting daumueller (Reply 9):
D-AIMA being in the shop right now

So the last flight of D-AIMA was yesterday and it now is inside a hangar for cabin reconfiguration?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAIMA
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na
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:10 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 6):
Never taken LH in J but doesn't 2-2-2 sounds pretty cramped for long haul J?

Why? To my experience thats perfect on the A380 and 747. Current J is already better than First Class 20 years ago, do you want to upgrade it even further?

Quoting daumueller (Reply 9):
D-AIMA being in the shop right now.

Thanks for the info.
 
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:19 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
Quoting daumueller (Reply 9):D-AIMA being in the shop right now
So the last flight of D-AIMA was yesterday and it now is inside a hangar for cabin reconfiguration?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAIMA

afaik, she was ferried to HAM yesterday afternoon for reconfig - haven't been to either FRA or HAM yesterday though to confirm the aircraft in sight  
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting daumueller (Reply 17):
afaik, she was ferried to HAM yesterday afternoon for reconfig - haven't been to either FRA or HAM yesterday though to confirm the aircraft in sight

Thank you.

There's a story about the cabin reconfiguration on abendblatt.de:

http://www.abendblatt.de/wirtschaft/...amburg-laesst-den-A380-surfen.html
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davidho1985
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:38 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
JL/NH put some pretty dreadful seats on their new 787s too; makes you wonder if it's timing or incompetence. Or both.

I heard it was partly due to the delay of 787 programme.

As the original EIS of 787 was 2008, the seats; PTV etc were selected (and placed the orders) by the airlines few years
ahead of the original delivery time. Therefore, those products may not be the latest version as available in 2012.
 
wingflex744
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:08 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Although Lufthansa has yet to reveal images of the new cabin, the seat map bellow shows the product will be (almost) the same as the 747-8i fleet.

It looks similar in the middle row (feet facing) but the two side rows don't look similar to the 748i at all as the two seats are parallel instead of forming a V like the middle row.
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Asiaflyer
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 13):
My only long haul flights in J have been on SQ's 1-2-1 long haul product.
Quoting asetiadi (Reply 14):
I thought long haul business class (J) are under 1-2-1 configuration as today's standard. Why they are still using 2-2-2? That's more like for regional business class.


You are spoiled guys. Until recently most airlines had reclining 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 in longhaul J. Now things are changing rapidly, with AF, KL and LH going flat and some airlines going 1-2-1.
I was a bit surprised when LH still installed reclining seat in their first A380s, and unfortunately they didnt see the flatbeds standard coming.
Talking about tight J-class long haul, how about UA who recently installed 8 abreast in J!!!   
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):

JL/NH put some pretty dreadful seats on their new 787s too; makes you wonder if it's timing or incompetence. Or both.

Having flown on most of the major Japanese carriers I have come to the reluctant conclusion that we Americans just have bigger butts. What is uncomfortable to us is perfectly comfortable to the Japanese. I recall flying from NRT on JAL in the all coach 74D--the seat pitch must have been about 29 inches. It was pure torture but thankfully it was a short flight.
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na
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:29 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 21):
I was a bit surprised when LH still installed reclining seat in their first A380s, and unfortunately they didnt see the flatbeds standard coming.

They saw it coming, the new product just wasnt ready in time.
 
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AA777223
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:31 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 1):

Isn't it amazing? Practically brand new airplanes are already obsolete customer service wise and are being retrofitted. Who would ever have thought it but it just goes to show how much high value customers mean to LH and the entire industry.

It is starting to remind me of the old trans-Atlantic ocean liner days when steerage passengers paid for the trip and first class was just pure profit.
Quoting wingflex744 (Reply 20):
It looks similar in the middle row (feet facing) but the two side rows don't look similar to the 748i at all as the two seats are parallel instead of forming a V like the middle row.
Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 7):

From the looks of the seatmap, it looks like the BE Diamond seat that KL, UA, etc. use.

It is not actually the PMCO J seat like on UA and CA, though I can certainly understand why it looks that way to you. It is actually the same seat that is on the 748, just rotated parallel by the walls because the upper eck of the A380 isn't wide enough for the Vs. There has been a big ole confab on another travel web forum about it. I have a J trip on the A380 coming up in July FRA-IAH, and I sure hope I'll get it. They recently updated the seatmap on my flight to reflect the new cabin (look for row 21 to move behind the galley to recognize it), but based on the replies of others in that forum, I think they updated all of the maps. I have 3 other flights on an LH A380 in September FRA-JNB, JNB_FRA and FRA-IAH, but alas, I will be in poverty class.
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questions
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:45 pm

It looks like LF changed the angle of the window seats. On the 748i all pairs are angled toward each other. On the A380 the window pairs are angled towards the window; the center pairs are angled towards each other as on the 748i.
 
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:54 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 21):
Talking about tight J-class long haul, how about UA who recently installed 8 abreast in J!!!

I've flown that on UA, and it's not only a tight squeeze, (compared to other C class configs) but it means you might spend a lot of the flight stepping over your seatmate or having them step over you. I've actually avoided a direct flight on UA and instead taken a connecting flight via YYZ on AC just for better C class (1-2-1 config). On a 14+ hour flight to Asia, I highly value the space I have to work, and being able to sleep uninterrupted without having to let my seatmate climb over me.

Regarding the LH layout, 2-2-2 is not ideal for me. I like 1-2-1 as all seats have aisle access. However if I flew that config (and I am on TK later this month actually), then I'll just opt for the aisle seat in the middle section. I guess 2-2-2 works well when people are traveling together. I wonder if there's any data on what percentage of C class travelers are traveling with someone versus alone?
 
by738
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:20 pm

BA is 2-4-2 in J albeit ying-yang
 
FirstClass
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:14 pm

The good news is that LH is constantly upgrading their product. From a financial POV their strategy of following innovators such as SQ, CX and NZ seems to be doing well. From a customer POV there are just too many products as the refurb takes years to complete and by the time it is completed already outdated, even AF is now starting to install J seats with direct aisle access for all seats. LH on short haul is great, their hubs in FRA and MUC have great lounges, on long haul my money goes to carriers that offer full flat seats with direct aisle access.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting aa777223 (Reply 24):
I have 3 other flights on an LH A380 in September FRA-JNB, JNB_FRA and FRA-IAH, but alas, I will be in poverty class.

I'll cry 'til I stop (big grin). Enjoy the 380--it is on my bucket list for next summer to Europe--probably on LH.
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Rdh3e
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 13):

Ah yes. I hadn't taken EK in J as well and 2-3-2 sounds like its pushing it.
Quoting asetiadi (Reply 14):
I thought long haul business class (J) are under 1-2-1 configuration as today's standard.
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 21):
who recently installed 8 abreast in J!!!

The 8 across is perfectly acceptable for all but the 30 seconds of the flight you need to be hopping over someone  

But in all seriousness, most airlines are going to fewer abreast by using a herringbone configuration which has its own drawbacks.
 
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AA777223
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
I'll cry 'til I stop (big grin). Enjoy the 380--it is on my bucket list for next summer to Europe--probably on LH.

No worries, my friend, haha. I didn't mean to sound like a snob. It is just quite a few hours to be in the back (er...bottom) of the bus.

Quoting jfidler (Reply 26):
I've flown that on UA, and it's not only a tight squeeze, (compared to other C class configs) but it means you might spend a lot of the flight stepping over your seatmate or having them step over you. I've actually avoided a direct flight on UA and instead taken a connecting flight via AC just for better C class (1-2-1 config). On a 14+ hour flight to Asia, I highly value the space I have to work, and being able to sleep uninterrupted without having to let my seatmate climb over me.

Regarding the LH layout, 2-2-2 is not ideal for me. I like 1-2-1 as all seats have aisle access. However if I flew that config (and I am on TK later this month actually), then I'll just opt for the aisle seat in the middle section. I guess 2-2-2 works well when people are traveling together. I wonder if there's any data on what percentage of C class travelers are traveling with someone versus alone?

I'm a big UA flyer, and I've flown both J types, on the 757, 767, 747 and the PMCO style on the 757. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm not terribly wide (except a bit at the shoulders), so the 8 abreast isn't a problem for me. I am a bit long, so that is the measurement that is most important to me, and I find both fit my needs there at an angle parallel to the ground so I'm a happy camper.

Especially when I compare to life in coach, I rarely find myself truly complaining about any J-class. At the most I find myself comparing.

[Edited 2014-04-02 11:12:38]
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Farzan
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 30):
The 8 across is perfectly acceptable for all but the 30 seconds of the flight you need to be hopping over someone

It is not acceptable EVER on a T7. Tried it on UA FRA-ORD. Never again.
 
flylonghaul
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:59 pm

Well done to LH for upgrading the product. Angled lie flat isn't really up to standard these days especially against products like BA J

2-2-2 is fine for J. Take a look at QF business on the 380. I certainly wouldn't call it cramped.

I'd definitely like to give this new product a testing  
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wzafar
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 33):

2-2-2 is not fine when QF''s partner (EK) does 1-2-1 in J and competition (CX, SQ) also do 1-2-1.. Also QF's J beds are slopy
 
SASDC8
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 34):

EK does 2-3-2 in J on their 777s! Heck they even have 2-2-2 in F! on some of their 777s.

I think LH is making the correct dession to refit their 380s, and hopefully it will not take to long to refit them all.
2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
 
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:34 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 6):
Never taken LH in J but doesn't 2-2-2 sounds pretty cramped for long haul J?

I've flown LH Business Class on both A380s and 747s (-400 and -8i) and 2-2-2 is no problem at all. But I certainly prefer the new product on the 748i and I'm pleased that it's getting on board the A380s.

Quoting wzafar (Reply 10):
How about a 2-3-2 J config on an EK 77W?

Hell, they do 2-3-2 in Business on A330s! Now, THAT is a squeeze.

One of many reasons why I avoid EK.

In other news (as they say), thanks to the LH pilots' strike I'll be in a BA 777 this time tomorrow instead of the usual LH 744. My first BA flight in over a decade. I'm curious to see how it goes...
 
qf002
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:49 am

It's good to see that they've switched to the more traditional BE Diamond layout for the window pairs, I never really understood the point of having those seats angled together with such tiny ottomans -- will the centre pair on the A380 have the small ottomans or the larger ones of the 748's lower deck?

Quoting wzafar (Reply 34):

2-2-2 is not fine when QF''s partner (EK) does 1-2-1 in J and competition (CX, SQ) also do 1-2-1.. Also QF's J beds are slopy

Only on 3 of their 13 daily flights to Australia! QF's product on the A380 and 744ERs is fully flat, and offer both more width and length than EK's seats on the A380.

QF is moving to 1-2-1, starting with the A330s this year.
 
avek00
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:28 am

I'm glad Lufthansa is looking to become competitive with major US and Asian carriers in its Business Class hard product.
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wzafar
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RE: New Business Class For LH A380s

Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 37):
QF is moving to 1-2-1, starting with the A330s this year.

let's hope it's not too late for QFi