Delta777-XXX
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JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:36 pm

JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets



Nov 20, 2000

Japan Airlines (JAL) said Friday it will sell all of its ten MD-11 jets over three years from fiscal 2002, replacing them with 10 planes for which JAL will shortly place orders with Boeing Co.

The carrier plans to buy eight Boeing 777-200ER jets with 300 to 350 seats and two B767-300ERs with 240 seats. The MD-11 planes have a seating capacity of 230-300.

Introducing the new and more spacious jets should enable JAL to improve its bottom line by about 10 billion yen (USD$92 million) through reduced costs and greater revenues.

JAL began to put MD-11 jets in services in November 1993. Two of the 10 planes are owned by the company, and the rest are supplied on lease. The company will buy out the eight leased planes at salvage value, or the remaining book value.

The company also plans to sell DC-10 planes with 266-318 seats by fiscal 2005.

These selloffs will reduce the number of plane models used by JAL to five.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

 
MD-90
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:42 pm

I was wondering when they where going to do that. Doesn't make much sense to have both the 777 and MD-11 in an airline's fleet.

Why all the smilies?
 
Delta777-XXX
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:44 pm

Delta has MD-11 and 777! I think they have plans to sell the MD-11s soon though.

It's too bad that the MD-11s are being taken away so fast. I'll probably never fly on one.
 
cba
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:47 pm

No 777-200LR for JAL?
 
sv11
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 1:52 pm

With the recent announcement of UPS buying converted MD-11F from Boeing, the conversion of MD-11s to cargo will only accelerate.

sv11
 
United Airline
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 1:56 pm

I really wonder why airliners are selling off their MD 11s. They are not that old. Many of them are actually quite new
 
Trvlr
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 2:23 pm

JAL had already ordered 7 LR 777's before this 777 order I think, which comprised of -200LRs and -300ERs. This most recent order looks like it is different.

Aaron G.
 
VirginA340
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 2:37 pm

The reasons why airlines are getting rid of the MD-11s is because they don't fly far enough on a full payload like the 777 and guzzles alot more gas. There have also been safety problems the problems were so bad that FEDEX pilots call it the Deathstar or the scud because the pilots have complained that the planes are "too damn sensitive on the first 100 feet of take-off and landing as cited in the Wall ST Journal back in late September. The MD-11's accident incident is equivelant to the DC-8 and 707! (Wall ST Journal) If the plane is having that much of a problem after flying for only 9 years than there is something seroiusly wrong with the plane. FEDEX pilots if they can try to avoid the plane by early retirement or flying the DC-10, A300s or the 727s as I was told by a FEDEX mechanic at EWR. The MD-11 that flipped over and burned at EWR in July of 1997 could've been the cause of the controls being too sensitive to the point of touching the yolk will change the plane's course. Delta was having so many problems with their MD-11s that they demanded that MD had a MD-11 techician during the first few months of service due to similar complaints by DL's pilots. Former AA CEO Robert Crandel himself said that he was very disappointed in the MD-11s failure to carry more passengers on a full payload and it's high fuel consumption. Not suprisingly AA pilots had the same complaints. If the problems with the 11 is being just found out now; you can bet that there are more problems to come up. Who knows maybe SR111 had gone done because of a manufacture defect of the MD-11.
"FUIMUS"
 
modesto2
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Tue Nov 21, 2000 3:13 pm

AA operates both the MD-11 and 777 but it's getting rid of its 11's. They're going to FedEx and AA is stocking up on the triple 7.
 
raggi
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:32 am

JAL has ordered eight 777-300ERs,no -200LRs. they were actually the launch-customer for the -300ER. Eva Air however, has ordered both the -200LR and the -300ER. So far, orders for the 200LR have been sluggish, with only three on firm order...all of those coming from EVA..
Stick & Rudder
 
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RayChuang
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 2:18 am

The reason why JL is buying the 777 Longer-Range models is simple: the plane will have lower fuel burn and definitely longer range than the MD-11. Besides, JL is well-aware that their 747-200 fleet is getting up there in years and JL may end up buying a good number of 777-300 and 777-300ER models to replace their older 747's in Japanese domestic, Asian regional and US Hawaii/West Coast flights. Besides, I believe that JL pilots like the 777, so that's why JL is ordering more of them.

Don't be surprised that in 2004 JL will be flying the 777-300ER to HNL, SEA, SFO and LAX from NRT and KIX.
 
chiawei
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 3:14 am

The problems with MD-11 is it does not have the range of the 777 hence higher operating cost. Moreover, the 3rd engine on the tail fin is much more difficult to maintain.

Regarding being sensitive right after take off and just prior to landing. This is the biggest joke I have heard so far on this forum. Pilot can learn to compensate, just like the 727 which suffers from excessive decenting rate during landing. SR111 crashed due to electrical problems and has nothing to do with the handling of the aircraft.

however, sabena's md-11 (leased from citybird) does suffer a lot of electrical problems as I have seen on this board.

So far there has been 5 MD-11 crash. None of which is pinpointed at handling problem of the aircraft. The N611FE that crashed in EWR was pilot error. Fed Ex lost another MD-11 in subic bay due to poor weather. China Airlines/Mandarin lost a MD-11 while landing in typhoon weather. Korean lost an MD-11F when it exploded in mid-air. SR111 lost a MD-11 probably due to electrical short. Again none of the loss can be attributed to your so called handling problem
 
chiawei
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 3:50 am

BTW, EVA bought 777 under political pressure. Had EVA really had a choice, they probably would have launched A340-500.
 
VirginA340
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Chiawei

Wed Nov 22, 2000 4:24 am

The so called problem is quite real just read the particular Wall ST Journal that did the story back in late September on the MD-11 and you'll find out. There are serious problems with that plane to have an incident/acident rating worse than the 707, DC-8. DC-10 and the older 747s. In my opinion for a plane to have a record equiviant to the older planes record in just 9 years of service is ridiculous. My post was not so called because I have read the facts in that issue. Can't remeber the exact date but it's there in the Journal. The story came out in late September. Also why don't you go ask the pilots from FEDEX, Delta, AA and other airlines who call the MD-11 the Scud or Deathstar. They don't earn these names for nothing you know.
"FUIMUS"
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 4:29 am

Blame it on poor design and unfulfilled promises. If the DC10/MD11 were a good aircraft, many more than the 500 or so manufactured would have been
produced.

 
sv11
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Chiawei

Wed Nov 22, 2000 4:52 am

EVA operates an all Boeing fleet and all GE engines. 777-200LR and 777-300ER may make more sense for them. Since they are a private airline, I don't think govt pressure will make much difference. EVA has put a big emphasis on cargo, that is why they have so many 747-400 combis. Taipei-New York would be a good route for the LR, right now this route stops in Seattle.

sv11
 
AFC_Ajax00
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RE: JAL To Sell Off All Its MD-11 Jets!

Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:04 am

I think that the airlines selling off their MD-11s is a good call. The 777 has longer range one less engine and in that respect more modern and much more fule efficient engines.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
Red Panda
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RE: Chiwei

Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:10 am

There are reports saying that MD11 is too sensitive in terms of handling. The tail-mounted engine design makes the vertical stabilizer (the tail) a lot smaller than any other a/c, making MD11 difficult to handle. The design of MD11 handling is pretty the same as fighters that require sensitive handling for dog fight. In addition to the smaller tail, the horizontal stabilizers are smaller than DC10(MD11's predecessor) and other a/cs.

Regards  ,
R Panda