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factsonly
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:03 pm

A388 wrote:
Are other routes that see the 744's getting the 777 instead seeing that CUR will remain a 747 destination until retirement of all the 744's?

Which aircraft will replace the 744 fleet?

If I remember correctly KL doesn't have that many 77W on order now(?)

Or will the 789's replace the combi 744's?

How many 789's does KL still have on order at this moment?

I'm interested in seeing how KL will reshuffle its fleet with more 744's being phased out.

What about the A332 fleet?

Which aircraft will replace their A332?

A388


1. KLM has withdrawn the B744 from AMS-TYO, this route is now B77W.

2. The B77W replaces the B744, the aircraft have the same seating.

3. KLM still has 2x B77W on order, delivery next year. PH-BVS Febr 2017 + PH-BVU May 2017

4. B789 seat 292 pax, while B74M seat 268 pax. and carries significant cargo. So with each replacement seat capacity grows, cargo capacity is reduced. Cargo loadfactor will improve.

5. B789 on order PH-BHL, PH-BHM, PH-BHO

6. KLM received 2x B77W earlier this year and operated 12x B77W + 7x B744 (19x 408 seats) over peak summer. The parking of 2x B744 will bring the fleet back to 17x 408 seats in winter. The delivery of 2x B77W next year will bring the summer 2017 back to 19x 408 seaters.

7. The A332 (243 seats) has always been an interim aircraft between B763 and B789, therefore mostly leased. The 5x A333 (292 seats) were a bit of an after thought (not part of long term plan, but will stay for a while).

8. More B789 are expected to replace A332.

No doubt other A.nutters will add more information.


http://www.planespotters.net/airline/KL ... h-Airlines
http://www.planespotters.net/airline/KLM-Cityhopper
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:57 pm

Thanks Factsonly. I'm just wondering how the reshuffling will take place throughout their network while those 744's are phased out but I can imagine KL won't give that information out publicly. I expect KL to send the 77W to CUR when purely looking at the capacity but who knows. If they want to spread out the capacity and increasing it slightly I don't mind getting two 789 flights on certain days of the week or even twice daily. This is my reasoning behind asking about the reshuffling. If anyone knows more then by all means share it here :D


A388
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:05 pm

factsonly wrote:
Following the last B744 flight of CX last week, it now seems that KLM parked its longest serving B747-400 PH-BFA this morning, following its last service NBO-AMS:

I thought she had a couple of more days to go...
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johnclipper
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:26 pm

Any idea how long HKG will stay a 744 route?
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:23 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Following the last B744 flight of CX last week, it now seems that KLM parked its longest serving B747-400 PH-BFA this morning, following its last service NBO-AMS:

I thought she had a couple of more days to go...

PH-BFA is currently on her way to Seoul: https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM855/b3833ba
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:24 pm

It looks like the oldest KLM bird PH-BFA has flown her last commercial flight. Her last flight was KL612 ORD-AMS landing at Schiphol at 06:36 yesterday morning.

She will eventually be joining her sisters PH-BFM and -BFO at Teruel.
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:08 pm

Well, what do you know! She's still going strong. Just landed at Willemstad, Curacao.
According to my information that means she will retire when she returns home or next Monday.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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EPA001
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:25 am

Iemand91 wrote:
It looks like the oldest KLM bird PH-BFA has flown her last commercial flight. Her last flight was KL612 ORD-AMS landing at Schiphol at 06:36 yesterday morning.

She will eventually be joining her sisters PH-BFM and -BFO at Teruel.


And so all of KLM's 747's will be decommissioned after they have served them very long and very reliable. Does anyone know when all the B747's will have left KLM's fleet? I could not find this in the thread, but maybe I have overlooked the information.
 
JeremyB
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:55 pm

EPA001 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
It looks like the oldest KLM bird PH-BFA has flown her last commercial flight. Her last flight was KL612 ORD-AMS landing at Schiphol at 06:36 yesterday morning.

She will eventually be joining her sisters PH-BFM and -BFO at Teruel.


And so all of KLM's 747's will be decommissioned after they have served them very long and very reliable. Does anyone know when all the B747's will have left KLM's fleet? I could not find this in the thread, but maybe I have overlooked the information.


The last frames will leave the fleet in March and April 2021. So we can enjoy these beauties for a couple more years!
 
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LUOCHUNHUI
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:14 pm

I heard the news said that KLM had been order 10 747-8I and 3 747-8F and would be serviced in 2018. Does anyone hear this? Is it true?
 
DALCE
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:22 pm

LUOCHUNHUI wrote:
I heard the news said that KLM had been order 10 747-8I and 3 747-8F and would be serviced in 2018. Does anyone hear this? Is it true?


well.... I think it will freeze in Hell earlier than KL orders the 748 I or F.
They are basically shutting down their cargo Maindeck ops, and have the 77W as replacement for the 744 full pax birds.
I can't see any 748 in KL's fleet, although it would be cool to see the blue livery on the newest 747 ;)
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JeremyB
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:38 pm

DALCE wrote:
LUOCHUNHUI wrote:
I heard the news said that KLM had been order 10 747-8I and 3 747-8F and would be serviced in 2018. Does anyone hear this? Is it true?


well.... I think it will freeze in Hell earlier than KL orders the 748 I or F.
They are basically shutting down their cargo Maindeck ops, and have the 77W as replacement for the 744 full pax birds.
I can't see any 748 in KL's fleet, although it would be cool to see the blue livery on the newest 747 ;)


I would love to see the 748 in KLM's livery but I agree that it likely won't happen, unless Boeing made a deal they can't refuse. The 747-F will leave the fleet sooner or later as KLM wants to shut down the freighter division. The average load factor on the freighters has dropped below 50%.
 
jbs2886
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:48 pm

factsonly wrote:
A388 wrote:
Are other routes that see the 744's getting the 777 instead seeing that CUR will remain a 747 destination until retirement of all the 744's?

Which aircraft will replace the 744 fleet?

If I remember correctly KL doesn't have that many 77W on order now(?)

Or will the 789's replace the combi 744's?

How many 789's does KL still have on order at this moment?

I'm interested in seeing how KL will reshuffle its fleet with more 744's being phased out.

What about the A332 fleet?

Which aircraft will replace their A332?

A388


1. KLM has withdrawn the B744 from AMS-TYO, this route is now B77W.

2. The B77W replaces the B744, the aircraft have the same seating.

3. KLM still has 2x B77W on order, delivery next year. PH-BVS Febr 2017 + PH-BVU May 2017

4. B789 seat 292 pax, while B74M seat 268 pax. and carries significant cargo. So with each replacement seat capacity grows, cargo capacity is reduced. Cargo loadfactor will improve.

5. B789 on order PH-BHL, PH-BHM, PH-BHO

6. KLM received 2x B77W earlier this year and operated 12x B77W + 7x B744 (19x 408 seats) over peak summer. The parking of 2x B744 will bring the fleet back to 17x 408 seats in winter. The delivery of 2x B77W next year will bring the summer 2017 back to 19x 408 seaters.

7. The A332 (243 seats) has always been an interim aircraft between B763 and B789, therefore mostly leased. The 5x A333 (292 seats) were a bit of an after thought (not part of long term plan, but will stay for a while).

8. More B789 are expected to replace A332.

No doubt other A.nutters will add more information.


http://www.planespotters.net/airline/KL ... h-Airlines
http://www.planespotters.net/airline/KLM-Cityhopper


More 789s? Will these be new orders/leases? Or will these be from AF, from what some speculated would be a 787-A350 swap between AF and KLM?
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
Well, what do you know! She's still going strong. Just landed at Willemstad, Curacao.
According to my information that means she will retire when she returns home or next Monday.


Yesterday we had PH-BFL, is this aircraft going to be retired today or tomorrow?


A388
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:28 pm

JeremyB wrote:
DALCE wrote:
LUOCHUNHUI wrote:
I heard the news said that KLM had been order 10 747-8I and 3 747-8F and would be serviced in 2018. Does anyone hear this? Is it true?

well.... I think it will freeze in Hell earlier than KL orders the 748 I or F.
They are basically shutting down their cargo Maindeck ops, and have the 77W as replacement for the 744 full pax birds.
I can't see any 748 in KL's fleet, although it would be cool to see the blue livery on the newest 747 ;)


I would love to see the 748 in KLM's livery but I agree that it likely won't happen, unless Boeing made a deal they can't refuse. The 747-F will leave the fleet sooner or later as KLM wants to shut down the freighter division. The average load factor on the freighters has dropped below 50%.

I agree with you a 747-8 in KLM's livery (minus the hideous swoop they introduced in 2014); that would probably be the most beautiful livery ever on a 747-8.
(maybe second to Lufthansa's retro 747-8).

But Boeing could never make a deal good enough for KLM. There are tons of reasons why not, but here one simple argument; the list price of a 747-8i is $378.5 million;
a 777-300ER is $339.6 and both are in dire need of orders.
We all know that airlines can get a hefty discount but still; the 777 will always be cheaper to buy/lease then the 747-8i.

The only reason KLM would buy the 747-8 if it would come in a combi-variant; if KLM really wants upper deck cargo space on regular passenger flights.
And they don't want that anymore since you also mentioned rightfully so that KLM basically shuts down their (dedicated) cargo operations.

It was mentioned the final every KLM 747 flight would take place in March 2021 but now we're also seeing mentioned the end of 2020. It's very likely that the remaining cargo 747's (PH-CKA, -CKB, -CKC and -MPS) will have left the fleet also.
Which means Schiphol will be KLM 747 free in 2021.

Very sad; Amsterdam airport without (KLM) 747's is a very sad sight not seen since 1971.

A388 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
Well, what do you know! She's still going strong. Just landed at Willemstad, Curacao.
According to my information that means she will retire when she returns home or next Monday.


Yesterday we had PH-BFL, is this aircraft going to be retired today or tomorrow?
A388

Unfortunately my information is correct. Her rotation to Curacao was the last commercial flight of KLM's oldest bird. KLM has confirmed this.
Last edited by Iemand91 on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:34 pm

I understand it now. PH-BFA departed Curacao Saturday and arrived in Amsterdam yesterday (Sunday). I took pictures of PH-BFL yesterday when it left Curacao in the afternoon. It operated flight KL785. KL735/736 does not operate on sundays to/from Curacao.


A388
 
76er
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:36 pm

JeremyB wrote:
KLM wants to shut down the freighter division. The average load factor on the freighters has dropped below 50%.


Source? Loadfactor on the remaining freighters is much higher than 50%. I should know, I fly them. The number you are refering to is the the systemwide loadfactor, including all available lower deck space on pax aircraft.





Iemand91 wrote:
KLM basically shuts down their (dedicated) cargo operations.


Again, source please.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:19 pm

76er wrote:
JeremyB wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
KLM basically shuts down their (dedicated) cargo operations.


Again, source please.

AF phased out about 4 747-400ERF's, KLM got rid of their newest 747-400F and Martinair all of their 7 MD-11F's in a time period of about 3 years.
That's a loss of 11 planes.
All that's left are 2 777F's (AF), 3 747F's (KLM) and 1 747F (Martinair) and no plans of adding new aircraft.

While you're technically correct this isnt' a shutdown of their cargo operations; this is a huge decline in capacity.
And the way things are going at AF/KLM it wouldn't surprise me for one bit they will get rid of the remaining freighters as well in the (near?) future.

Don't get me wrong; I wish things were going differently but the signs are there. Maybe I should'nt have made such a bold statement but at least I had some thought behind it.

On a different note; you said load factor on the full freighters is much higher than 50% which means load factor in the KLM bellies is low. Any idea why the pax-planes carry not so much freight?
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DALCE
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:52 am

KL is not utilizing the cargo capacity they have. Many European flights do not take any cargo. KL does not accept any RRY,RRW or RRE. The 737 can't take any pieces heavier than 100 or 149 kgs etc etc.
Longhaul somehow they can't seem to fill their flights properly. Cargo Customer service in AMS is often unreachable by phone, and many staff is not aware of their own network.
Sorry to say this as a Dutchman, but these are facts we have to deal with on a daily basis. There are many reasons as to why KLM cargo is currently not up to par with the market.
But this is probably not the right topic to talk about this, as this is about the 747's.
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B747ATC
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:09 pm

Any info on the final hours/cycles on her?

I read PH-BFD has the highest number of hours so far and that PH-BFB has a fair chance of becoming the all-time winner with her retirement date a while ahead. But PH-BFA should still have some impressive numbers.......
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:53 pm

B747ATC wrote:
Any info on the final hours/cycles on her?

I believe PH-BFA has 125.834 hours and 16.880 cycles under her belt.
[/quote]
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:02 pm

I managed to take a picture of "Atlanta" when I went spotting last Thursday.
She was very lonely in a dark, abandoned hangar at Schiphol-East :( ...

Image
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport - 05-07-2016 by Iemand91, on Flickr

PH-BFP is next; she's currently on her way to Mexico. When she returns home tomorrow afternoon (Sunday) she's scheduled for KL887 to Hong Kong returning to Amsterdam late Monday.
That might very well be her final ever commercial flight.

The 747's are going away fast now. PH-BFM, -BFO, -BFK and -BFA are out already with -BFP following this weeekend. That's 5 out of 22; that 23% of the 747 fleet gone already. :cry:
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:26 pm

How long will IAH remain a 744 route?
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:15 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
How long will IAH remain a 744 route?

Since KLM has not mentioned anything about this route; answering this question would be pure speculation.

PH-BFP didn't leave Amsterdam for Hong Kong yesterday but went to Houston this morning.
Her retirement was set for November 1 so her return flight to Amsterdam could very well be her last ever commercial flight.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:26 pm

A388 wrote:
So three 744's will have been retired by the end of this year, is that correct? When will we see the first 744 retired that is doing the CUR flights? Which 744 registrations will replace the registrations that are currently flying to CUR? We get both full pax and combi 744's here, even though they are all flying as full pax aircraft. The reason why I ask is that I would like to see the day when the first KL 744 with the new livery will fly to CUR and of course I would love to see the Orange Pride 77W in CUR too :D

A388

Iemand91 wrote:
A388 wrote:
So three 744's will have been retired by the end of this year, is that correct? When will we see the first 744 retired that is doing the CUR flights? Which 744 registrations will replace the registrations that are currently flying to CUR? We get both full pax and combi 744's here, even though they are all flying as full pax aircraft. The reason why I ask is that I would like to see the day when the first KL 744 with the new livery will fly to CUR and of course I would love to see the Orange Pride 77W in CUR too :D
A388

At December 31, PH-BFA and -BFP will also have left the fleet. -BFA will be the first full-pax 747 to retire.

PH-BFT, -BFV en -BFW have the new livery; all combi. At the end of 2017 -BFY will undergo a D-check (for as far as I know the last D-check ever on a KLM 747) and will receive the new livery aswell.
So she will be the only fullpax 747 to ever wear the new livery. Since the CUR flights are all full-pax you'll have to wait for early 2018 to see a new livery 747 there.
But honestly; with new 787's coming in, 747 going out I think KLM will probably schedule different aircraft to CUR before that.

As for the OrangePride 777 at CUR; keep dreaming. Don't think she will ever visit CUR unless it's something special (like KLM said themselves; they want to use the aircraft for special occasions)

Well, I stand corrected; from next winter (2017-2018) the 747 to CUR will be replaced by the 777-300ER: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-31oct16/

It's not entirely 100% certain though...

It also looks like PH-BFP has made here final ever commercial flight. She came in from Houston this morning and has no more scheduled flights (as far as I know).

Man the 747 retirement at KLM goes fast now. Really bummed :( ...
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:25 am

Well, I stand corrected; from next winter (2017-2018) the 747 to CUR will be replaced by the 777-300ER: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-31oct16/

It's not entirely 100% certain though...

It also looks like PH-BFP has made here final ever commercial flight. She came in from Houston this morning and has no more scheduled flights (as far as I know).

Man the 747 retirement at KLM goes fast now. Really bummed :( ...


Every time I saw an Emirates 77F from AMS on approach to CUR over my head on a CUR beach, I couldn't help but think that KLM's cargo dept dropped the ball somewhere, somehow big time. The 77W in KLM config carries the same amount of pax as the 744, but a LOT more cargo, so that may have helped the switch (together with the fuel-burn. KLM seem to be changing routes from 744 to 77W based on distance to AMS).
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:03 pm

Tomorrow will be the final day for KLM's oldest aircraft: PH-BFA "City of Atlanta".
She's scheduled to leave Amsterdam Airport forever at 09:15 in the morning headed for Teruel where she wil join her younger sisters PH-BFM and -BFO.

KL736 from Willemstad, Curaçao to Amsterdam was her final commercial flight and she landed in Amsterdam on October 16 and was withdrawn from service that day.
She was delivered to KLM on May 18th, 1989 and was (obviously) KLM's very first 747-400. At that time; all previous 747's were still in service including 6 747-200B's with JT-9D engines and 10 747-200SUD's with CF-6 engines and 3 CF-6 powered 747-300's.
Unfortunately PH-BUF (747-200, JT9-D) was no more because of the terrible crash at Tenerife.

At the time of delivery; PH-BFA was KLM's 20th 747.

These videos are from the Dutch News; the first was about here arrival at KLM:
(Does anyone know how to embed Youtube videos?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9260PycY-c

Not even 5 weeks after delivery she was part of an incident where her left outboard engine struck a lawnmower when she was taxiing towards the runway for her flight KL643 to New York JFK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H-qtnlexj4

This was here 1.5 weeks ago when I visited Amsterdam Airport. There she was; in an empty, dark hangar at Schiphol-East:


Image
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport - 27-10-2016 by Iemand91, on Flickr

And another show of mine; shot in February this year when she took to the skies as KL691 to Toronto:

Image
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport - 25-02-2016 by Iemand91, on Flickr

With the departure of PH-BFA the KLM's 747 fleet is down to just 19 aircraft excluding PH-BFP who has also flown her last flight already on October 31.
This makes 18 active 747's at KLM at this moment.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
A388
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:21 am

The 77W to Curacao next year is only temporary for a few weeks. After that the 747 will be back on the Curacao route.


About Emirates in Curacao, those flights were only fuel stops so they didn't pick up any cargo here. These flights have nothing to do with KLM dropping any ball anywhere. The flight comes from UIO and continues to AMS. These flights will move to aguadilla in Puerto Rico due to better pricing and better incentives in Puerto Rico and they will pick up pharmaceutical cargo there too.

A388
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:00 am

A388 wrote:
About Emirates in Curacao, those flights were only fuel stops so they didn't pick up any cargo here.
A388


Thanks for that information A388, appreciated.
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:12 am

7 NOV 2016:

PH-BFA currently en-route to Teruel Airport in Spain for storage:

http://www.flightradar24.com/KLM9865/b8a8db4


see more aircraft stored at Teruel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUX0EB1RcxA
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:08 pm

Europe's oldest 747-400 last ever take-off this morning from the short runway 04 (Oostbaan)

Image
KLM B747 by Ramon Kok, on Flickr
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
guillelds
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:08 pm

Why not sending them for cargo issues instead of a total retirement?
 
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Byron1976
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:44 pm

Sad days with the Queen of the skies being phased out. I guess the same happened when the 707 was starting to be a rare sight.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:53 pm

guillelds wrote:
Why not sending them for cargo issues instead of a total retirement?


They are used up. KLM's oldest 747s have some of the highest total hours of any civil aircraft ever flown.
 
guillelds
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:45 am

Why not a new home in Africa or even Venezuela? I can admit them to be phased out....
 
Viscount724
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:04 am

guillelds wrote:
Why not sending them for cargo issues instead of a total retirement?


The air cargo market is weak with far too much capacity for current demand. IATA reported worldwide cargo load factor of only 43.7% in September and in some global areas it was only around 30% or slightly less.

There are plenty of parked freighters available. Cost of converting a KL combi to pure freighter would be high. They would never recover those costs considering the market and limited time available on the airframes considering their high hours. Assume they're being retired as they come due for expensive heavy maintenance checks.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:51 pm

It's the final weekend for KLM's PH-BFP.

"City of Paramaribo" is the 5th 747-400 to leave the fleet forever after PH-BFM, -BFO, -BFK and -BFA.
She flew her very first flight on August 13, 1993 and was delivered to KLM on September 1 the same year.
On March 7, 2014 she got the new World Business Class.
On October 31 this year she took of on here very last commercial flight as KL662 from Houston to Amsterdam where she landed on 07:39 local time.

This is -BFP ready to departure on her last ever commercial flight at Houston:

Image
IMG_3884 by Astro95Media, on Flickr

This Monday she's scheduled to make her very last flight, departing Amsterdam on 09:00 local time to Teruel, Spain where she will join her older sisters
PH-BFA, -BFM and -BFO.
Here she is at Schiphol-East this weekend (source)
Unfortunately I don't have her total hours and cycles (wish I had)

Image

Fortunately no more 747 retirements this year. (at least not planned). Next in line is PH-BFD; KLM's most used aircraft (ever?) with the most amount of hours and cycles under her belt.
She's scheduled to retire sometime in January next year (self made Excell sheet says January 15)
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:50 pm

PH-BFP has just departed Schiphol on her last ever flight (to Teruel): https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM9865/bad7f06

She's a bit late because of the weather at Teruel.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
TheSonntag
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Re: RE: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:25 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 38):By far the worst economy class in their longhaul fleet.

KL 744s in economy have always been abysmal. Beautiful on the oputside, just bloody awful on the interior.


Just curious - I flew that in 2004. Do they still have no PTV in Coach?
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: RE: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:54 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 38):By far the worst economy class in their longhaul fleet.

KL 744s in economy have always been abysmal. Beautiful on the oputside, just bloody awful on the interior.


Just curious - I flew that in 2004. Do they still have no PTV in Coach?


Of course they have PTVs. It's 2016.
 
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747classic
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:12 pm

Another change of plans :

PH-BFN (full pax) will receive a D-check in spring 2017 (for the CUR ops ?)

Provisional KLM 744 Phase-out schedule in 2017 :
PH-BFD - 15 JAN 2017
PH-BFE - 22 MAY 2017
PH-BFR - 01 NOV 2017
PH-BFC - 04 DEC 2017

source : Scrammble, Praethuys, KLM forum (only in Dutch)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:44 am

Presently stored KLM 744's :

PH-BFM - Teruel
PH-BFO - Teruel
PH-BFK - Mojave
PH-BFA - Teruel
PH-BFP - Teruel

4 stored KLM 744's, Teruel (LETL), 27 December 2016

Image

Original uploaded by Oscar Laborda, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/olaborda/31789787802/

Provisional KLM 744 Phase-out schedule in 2017 (subject to change) :

PH-BFD - 15 JAN 2017 >> wil be ferried in February 2017 towards Mojave
PH-BFE - 22 MAY 2017
PH-BFR - 01 NOV 2017
PH-BFF - 01 NOV 2017 i.s.o. PH-BFN
PH-BFC - 04 DEC 2017
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
tvh
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:02 am

There are 20 747's left and only 2 77W and max 6 787 excepted before 2020. The 7 B787-10 and 7 A350 all come from 2020. How can KLM handle this, how many 747 will remain into the next decade? They also want to grow there fleet so I would think they need to order more aircraft or step up the deliveries.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:43 pm

747classic wrote:
4 stored KLM 744's, Teruel (LETL), 27 December 2016

I saw that picture too a few days ago. Sad sight...
tvh wrote:
There are 20 747's left and only 2 77W and max 6 787 excepted before 2020. The 7 B787-10 and 7 A350 all come from 2020. How can KLM handle this, how many 747 will remain into the next decade? They also want to grow there fleet so I would think they need to order more aircraft or step up the deliveries.

I'm not going to calculate seats here; but:
- Between 2012 and 2014 they retired 10 MD-11's
- Since then they retired 5 747-400's (4 combi, 1 full-pax); 17 to go (6 full-pax and 11 combi including -BFD to go next week)
- Also since the end of 2015 they retired 4 A330-200.
- Since 2020 they gained 7 777-300ER's (and still 2 more to come this year)
- Since 2015 they gained 8 787-9's (another 6 to go and 7 787-10's)
- And if the final flight of the 747-400 is indeed in March 2021 they will also get 4 A350-900's before that date.

So when you don't look at the total number of seats they will retire 26 planes and gain 27. It's also not very unlikely they will get one or some more 777-300ER's.
how many 747 will remain into the next decade?

The final KLM 747-400 flight is in March 2021 (but later on they always said it would be 2020 so I'm not 100% sure)
If (and that's a BIG if) all the 747's that don't have a known retirement date (known to the general public that is) will stay until March 2021: 9 planes will live to see the final 747 operations at KLM.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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seabosdca
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 pm

747classic wrote:
PH-BFD - 15 JAN 2017 >> wil be ferried in February 2017 towards Mojave


Please let us know how many hours/cycles this bird has upon retirement! I think it may be the all-time hours leader in the world commercial fleet.
 
LewisNEO
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:36 pm

After more than 12 years of just reading this Forum as a Dutch aviation freak, my first reply after I finally joined. KarelXWB's comments nailed it ;-)

I will fly on a KL 333 to Aruba this march, this used to be a 747. Although KL's 747 are old and worn out, I love the cabin space. They still have old fashioned seats with some proper width. I am glad to fly in a KL 333 too, at least the seats are not as cramped as in the 777 or 787. And I do not mind to pay more for upgrades, but KLs premium class economy comfort doesn't give any extra width compared to KLs regular economy.

My niece flies as a purser on KL 747s. She told me the planes are going to be missed because the 777s don't offer the same kind of cabin space and the 772s are being refurbished into a 3-4-3 set up too now. She receives quite some complaints from regular travelers.
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-300, A380.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:50 pm

PH-BFD has started her final week at KLM. She's currently on her way to Mexico-City. She will be phased out next Sunday and will be ferried to Mojave Air and Space Port via Chicago on February 6.

She will most likely have the most flight hours of all (jet?) aircraft ever; a record she will probably hold for a very long time unless a/some KLM/LH birds will take that record.

I photographed her a few months ago...

Image
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport - 05-07-2016 by Iemand91, on Flickr
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
LewisNEO
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:14 am

Iemand91 wrote:
PH-BFD has started her final week at KLM. She's currently on her way to Mexico-City. She will be phased out next Sunday and will be ferried to Mojave Air and Space Port via Chicago on February 6.

She will most likely have the most flight hours of all (jet?) aircraft ever; a record she will probably hold for a very long time unless a/some KLM/LH birds will take that record.

I photographed her a few months ago...

Image
Amsterdam Schiphol Airport - 05-07-2016 by Iemand91, on Flickr



Do you happen to know how many flight hours this bird made? Just curious... :-)
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-300, A380.
 
tvh
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:37 am

[quote="Iemand91"So when you don't look at the total number of seats they will retire 26 planes and gain 27. It's also not very unlikely they will get one or some more 777-300ER's.[/quote]
So an increase of 1 plane in a period of 6 years and a lot of new destinations.Thats not whopy. I still ask how can the manage. One or two additional 77W's is not enough.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KLM Started Phase Out Of The 747-400

Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:27 am

LewisNEO wrote:
Do you happen to know how many flight hours this bird made? Just curious... :-)

All I know is she gathered 135.879 flight hours in the beginning of September 2016.
Unfortunately I don't have more recent data but that will probably posted somewhere on the internet.
Knowing that number she will gather roughly 138.000 flight hours when she retires this Sunday...

Just to put these hours in perspective; that's about 13.8 flying hours on average per day! And that's without downtime for checks and regular maintenance etc.
And 135.879 flying hours is 5662 full days or 15.5 years of flying :shock: ...
tvh wrote:
So an increase of 1 plane in a period of 6 years and a lot of new destinations.Thats not whopy. I still ask how can the manage. One or two additional 77W's is not enough.


Don't ask me, I'm not KLM. ;)

But more efficient use out of the aircraft and less maintenance are probably 2 factors that contribute to this.
Getting rid of the 747's, MD-11 and Fokkers and aquiring new 777's, 787's and Embraers will result in (much) less maintenance which equals more time for flying.
I believe KLM has a very high utilization rate.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
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