aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

ALM To Amsterdam

Tue Nov 28, 2000 4:09 pm

I was looking @ ALM's (Antillian airlines) website(http://www.airalm.com) (it's actually quite a nice site) and I read that they are starting service to Amsterdam twice a week starting in December. Although in the part of their site about their aircraft it only shows them flying MD-80s and Dash-8s. It also does not list from which city they will serve Amsterdam although I asume it will be from their main hub Curacao. Does anyone know or have any ideas as to where this aircraft is comming from and what it will be. I doubt that this is a code-share b/c it already lists them flying between Curacao and Amsterdam with KLM and Miami and Amsterdam with Martinair. Please lend me some information who ever knows anything. Thanx
-Aaron

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gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 12:29 am

Maybe its a multi-stop flight with their Dash8 A/C!!!
Curaco-Trinidad-Barbados-Nassau-Miami-Atlanta-Newark-Boston-Montreal-Halifax-Greenland-Keflavik-Aberdeen-Newcastle-Amsterdam, frequency? once per month!!!!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 1:55 am

ALM have a twice weekly AMS CUR AMS flight with
an MD 11.This is in addition to the codeshare flight
with KLM.I would imagine that the AC is a KLM or
MARTINAIR aircraft as it does a turn around in CUR
and goes back to AMS
 
A330
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 2:24 am

Flights will be operated by Citybird, with an MD11 (OO-CTB).
The entire crew will be Citybird personnel, with 2 ALM observers onboard.
Shiek!
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 5:15 am

That's right. I work here and frankly I can't wait.
Maybe becuae my girl's coming down on the first flight.
But it's a twice weekly service on sundays and wednesdays starting December 10th.
Operated by OO-CTB Schiphol - Willemstad,Curacao.

The deal is worth $250,000 a flight (not a bad deal) and lasts through March, when they will either end it, further it, and/or change from a wet to a dry lease as we have ALM pilots and cabin crew already checked out on MD-11's. This from the now ending code-share with KLM on the Mid-Atlantic runs.


Regards,

Xander
 
A330
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 5:20 am

Hey Dash8,

I've heard that CTB will hire not more people on MD11, and they are looking at ways to transfer crew from Paramaribo to Curacao...
Maybe in the future, mixed crews could work out, I envy the CTB crews who fly to the most exotic destinations of the Western Hemisphere!
Shiek!
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:30 am

Wow, I hope this becomes a very prosperous relationship between CTB and ALM. As I see from the reservations computers at the airport, the first 2 months are fully booked already.
But KLM is a very nasty airline. They will find and use any trick in the book to maintain their monopoloy on the MAD-route. They did so back when Air Aruba flew to Amsterdam.
But I'm sure we can hold our own.
Let's see what come out of this.

Regards,

Xander
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3671
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Wed Nov 29, 2000 5:11 pm

the deal is worth $250.000 a flight??? That sounds ridiculous. A roundtrip would be worth $500.000 which makes $1.390 a seat (x 360), while they aim to lower the prices, which are now about $750 and heavily criticized by the AMS-CUR public already.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Thu Nov 30, 2000 2:21 am

It's $250,000 per flight. Flight being LM 2000/1. So to Curacao and back.
Right now that $750 dollars is low season and less than 2 weeks on KLM. Buy a high season ticket for a 5 weeks' stay and it'll run you about $1,200.

Also there are 370 seats on that plane. 35 of which business class. So ALM can easily make money on this route in these months.
Don't worry. Let ALM start flying and you'll see how low prices can go in reality. And then you'll see how KLM
is profiting from this route.

I paid $610 for my GF's trip to Curacao and back. And that's for a 4 weeks' stay. In these months I would have paid double that on KLM.

Regards,

Xander
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Thu Nov 30, 2000 3:39 am

I don't want to be rude but please keep to the facts. KLM's lowest fare (NLG 1341, USD 515) to CUR is only NLG 52,- (USD 20) more expansive than ALM's lowest fare (NLG 1289, USD 495). Furthermore, KLM's lowest fare enables you to stay 1 month instead of 21 days for the ALM fare. Furthermore, after March 14th KLM is the cheapest option to go to CUR (If you don't believe it just check the reservation systems like Sabre). Yes, KLM doesn't offer unlimited seats for these prices but ALM doesn't do this either. So please check Sabre before claiming that KLM's prices are too expansive.

Furthermore, the Dutch Monopoly Authority (Nma) ruled in favour of KLM saying that KLMs fares are NOT extremely high and that KLM does NOT use its monopoly power to extort AMS-CUR passengers.

Furthermore, the main reason why Air Aruba stopped AMS-AUA service was that they lost the aircraft when Air Holland went bankrupt (for the first time).

Regards
Laurens Janssen
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Fri Dec 01, 2000 3:58 am

Well Laurens have you ever travelled to Curaçao.
Are you in aviation?
Do you here the news straight or via media.
YOU beleive me. Air Aruba didn't stop becuase Air Holland went bankrupt. That's what the papers told you.

Sabre also tells you that are only 52 guilders cheaper.
But it doesn't tell you how many of those seats will be sold.
You tell me that come March 14th KLM fares will be lower. You don't say that by that time low season is setting in and that ALM deal with CityBird is just days from terminating.
You tell me that the NMA finds that KLM prices aren't rediculously high but you don't tell me that that opinion is now in dispute.

How can you tell me to get the facts straight if you give them to me all crooked.


Tot schrijfs

Xander
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Fri Dec 01, 2000 4:38 am

I reserved online with KLM the same dates as I did with ALM. Just to compare.
Well KLM threw me a woozy. No less than 3030 NLG from Dec10th till Jan07th.

That's 400 guilders more expensive that ALM's most expensive rate.

Regards,


Xander
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Sat Dec 02, 2000 3:54 am

Xander,

In reply to your first question:NO. I haven't been to CUR. Maybe next year if I go to Ecuador I'll be able to make a stopover at CUR.

Answer two:
I don't work in the aviation business. I work in the financial industry and don't have any professional links to aviation.

Answer three:
The majority of the info I get is coming from the media (Bloomberg, Reuters, TV, internet etc..). Furthermore, I've some friends in the aviatioon industry which supply sometimes with interesting info (and the latest gossip).

Answer four:
I acknowledge that KLM used tricks in order to make live for Air Aruba difficult (like they've done with more airlines), but I can hardly believe that FQ would abandon a profitable route just to get rid of KLM. Furthermore, if I can remember it correctly, didn't FQ use Air Holland crew in the end and wasn't the B767 only used for flights to AMS and also used by Air Holland on other days?

Answer five:
I've looked at fares in January and there you have the same thing. The difference isn't big.

As for the NMa decision, I didn't know that it is contested. I wonder who contested the ruling as it is a very thorough judgement (I assume you've read it). Furthermore, during my own research, which I had to do for my university paper on the infuence of alliances and mergers on fares I discovered that the lowest fares from 1995-2000 have dropped. You're right if you say that the number of seats for these fares is limited but, you can't claim that alll KLM fares are ridicoulously high. Travelling during the Christmas period is always expensive no matter where you want to go to (last year I intended to go to New York for Christmas and quoted more than USD 1,000 for a return flight (unless I would travel after Christmas).

Regards
Laurens Janssen




 
User avatar
Plane Holland
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:27 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:48 am

reading all this....We can throw in Dutchbird as well..what are you all argueing about...prices?? We all know that the price is a part of flying safely to your destination. This action is a cheap one from ALM/Citybird..let's take the profitable routes and make it unprofitable for whoever flies that route. I agree competition is good, but out of this one no one will make money..The citybird system is something you can see on their BRU-MIA and LAX routes ..try to book a seat on those flights..and where are the seats..at the touroperator ..try v/d valk or another TO

greetings,
Arjan
 
dash8
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Sat Dec 02, 2000 12:29 pm

Last I v/d Valk is in talks with ALM to switch their operations to them.
So they'll be able to fly from Schiphol i.s.o. Brussels.

Aslo I think that if KLM and ALM worked together i.s.o. compete, that this route should be profitable to both.

I never forget that day in summer 1995, I can still feel the goosebumps. There were no less than 5 KLM widebodies at Hato Airport in Curacao.

There were 2 747's and 1 MD-11 parked at the gate.
One MD-11 was taking off and 1 747 was entering downwind leg arriving from Paramaribo. No diversions, just high season.

On the Mid Atlantic route :"Make seats available and they will fill"

Also to answer LJ's comment regarding FQ.
FQ dropped out simply because there was no market anymore. Everybody went back to KLM. Stuff KLM did back then I'm sure won't fly these days though.
The last I remember was KLM's campaign where tickets went as low as 999 guilders. It coincided with Condor's first flights to Curacao.
Since then no more promotions........EVER.
Kinda funny.......


Regards,

Xander
 
trintocan
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Sat Dec 02, 2000 12:49 pm

An interesting development indeed. I hope that LM does not overextend itself in starting such a route; after all, the Caribbean is replete with airline failures of recent vintage. EG Air Caribbean shutting down in POS, Air Aruba in AUA, Air Jamaica cutting the KIN-BGI-POS route and so on...

Anyhow, all the best to LM in its new venture.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: ALM To Amsterdam

Sat Dec 02, 2000 4:35 pm

While we are on the topic of Citybird (well sort of), do they still fly to LAX. I have never seen one of their a/c nor have I seen any adds in the paper for them, or find their schedules on Sabre. If they do not fly here any more when did they stop? It was on an MD-11, right?
Thanx everyone for your response to my question. Please keep responding I think that it is really interesting what all of you experts have to say.
-Aio86, LAX