MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 12:39 pm

When the two towers that make up the World Trade Center were built, they were designed to withstand the impact of the largest airliner of the day, the Boeing 707 Intercontinental. The Empire State Building survived a B-25 medium bomber crashing into it on very foggy day. It was during the weekend when most people weren't there, but still, 14 people died.

Anyone wanna bet that the World Trade Center could survive an 767-300 impact?
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 12:43 pm

Let's not try that, OK? One terrorist attempt was enough.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Guest

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 1:47 pm

My bet is NO WAY!!! Just imagine a fully loaded airliner the size of the 707 (for modern comparison reasons, let's say a 757) slamming into any building. THINK ABOUT IT!!!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 3:49 pm

Redngold this was not a terrorist attempt but the pilot took off in heavy fog and he couldn't see a thing. He had accidentally slammed into the building and the people on the plane as well as the 14 people in the building mostly young women secretaries were killed.
"FUIMUS"
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:40 pm

If a 707 or a 757 slammed into the World Trade Center, it might be much more damaging than the case of the B-25 bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building.

For one thing, unlike the Empire State Building, which has more heavy concrete, the World Trade Center is made more of steel and glass - this may mean far greater structural damage due to the impact and flying glass shards and debris raining down on the people below. There could be a possibility of toppling if the 707 or the 757 came in at a high enough speed. Both of these planes are larger and heavier than a B-25 bomber, so this means a greater force of impact. I'm no expert on building structure or air crashes, but it would no doubt be far worse than the Empire State Building disaster.

It is very doubtful any passengers or crew would have survived such a grim scenario. Also, there are probably more people per floor in the World Trade Center compared to the Empire State Building, so casualties in the building will likely be much higher.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities would have a strict exclusion zone preventing any large airplanes, especially commercial airliners, from getting too close to Manhattan, so that there would be no repeat of the Empire State Building crash.

Other large buildings have been crashed into by large airliners, like the El Al 747-200F that crashed into an apartment complex in Amsterdam several years ago.

There was a small Cessna plane that crashed into a hospital in Edmonton, the city where I live. This was in the early 1980s, and did prompt fears about larger planes crashing right in the middle of Edmonton. The hospital sits right underneath the approach path to the City Centre Airport. It was quoted in the news by a member of the city council that "one day a 737 will slam into the hospital, and that will be it".

Edmonton City Centre Airport (formerly the Municipal Airport) did used to have quite a few 737s and BAe 146s flying in and out of there until 1995, when it was closed to most scheduled flights. This airport sits only a few kilometres north of downtown Edmonton, so it is well within the built up areas.

There are risks when you have an airport like Kai Tak(now closed) or Love Field in Dallas, TX served by larger airliners the size of a 737 or larger and sitting well within an urban area. Believe me, it's amazing that Kai Tak has never had a disaster like that, considering that Hong Kong has so many skyscrapers so near the airport - and that Hong Kong is one of the most densely populated cities in the world.
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:46 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 5:06 pm

It might survive it with heavy damage as the building still was standing after terrorists blew up the the car park and the foundaitons.

Pacific
 
kaitak
Posts: 8934
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Thu Nov 30, 2000 9:44 pm

I recall reading a story that an Aerolineas Argie 707 came very close to doing the same thing (i.e. crashing into the Empire State) sometime in the '60s or '70s, but thankfully ATC managed to warn them in time.

I do believe that the result of a large airliner hitting a large modern building would be much closer to the EL AL incident than the B25 incident in '43. The 757/767 etc. would be much faster and heavier than the B25 so I wouldn't be too optimistic that the Empire State would survive either.

Hopefully, we'll never have to find out.
 
Guest

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 2:54 am

remember when el al hit the apartment house in Amsterdam...that should give you an idea.
 
tom2katie
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2000 8:58 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 4:30 am

You people need a hobby. Can we find something a little less morbid to fantasize about?
 
FlyVirgin744
Posts: 1282
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 8:35 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 5:24 am

I'm pretty sure this is their hobby.   I'm not understanding why some think of this as a bad topic, I think it is a very good question. Just my .02.
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 5:31 am

In one post war winter, Newark airport had 3 aircraft crushes weeks apart, also due to buildings in the area at that time. There was a substantial publiuc preassure to close down the airport, but Port Authority managed to keep it open. There is an article about it in recent issue "Airways" magazine.

Anyone knows more?
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:15 am

The greatest danger any air crash over Manhattan would pose would be to people not in buildings but on the ground. In the late 1970s, the landing gear of a New York Airways S-61 landing on the Pan Am Building gave way, causing the helicopter to capsize. While thankfully nobody on board was killed, part of the rotor that broke off killed a person on the ground, prompting New York City banning all such flights (all Manhattan heliports are along the edge of the island).
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
airafrique
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:25 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:37 am

I am working in downtown New-York at the world trade center and when somebody is in the observation deck of the world trade center you see plane on approach to Laguardia aiport not far away from the building.Sometime you think that the plane is coming to hit the building.
And for your information planes do fly over Manhattan and I always think what if a pilote crashes a plane on us
 
jabpilot
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 8:38 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:55 am

I agree with Fanofjets. I would think more people would die on the ground from the result of falling debris, rather than the jet actually slamming into the building. Sure people would be killed and injured in the building but can you imagine an aircraft the size of a 707 "showering" down in pieces onto Manhattan! Jeff
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:30 am

The structure itself would survive, as the buildings are surrounded by other buildings, and thus only a hit could take place high up on the structure (meaning not at or reall near ground level) If it could somehow penetrate and hit the base, that would take it out completely, but a hit 500 or 600 feet up most likely wouldn't take out the whole thing.

Greg

Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:43 am

Well, let's see. December 1997 - An-124-100 crashes on top of a building on take-off. July 25, 2000 - Concorde slams into a hotel. See the consequences and think for yourself.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 11:54 am

OK, I was referrring to the World Trade Center bombing when I wrote about a "terrorist attack." And yes, I know the collision was an Air Force B-29 piloted by a self-assured USAF officer flying in dense fog.

The normal flight path is down the Hudson River valley to New York Harbor, then either turn west (for EWR) or east (for LGA and JFK). Trust me, I used to watch the planes in NY all the time. The planes passing the World Trade Center observation deck appear very close, because the World Trade Center ob deck is 1,000 ft. up and very close to the Hudson River, and your perspective is skewed because there's nothing remotely that tall between the ob deck and the Hudson.

They're actually not as close as they seem.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Soku39
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 7:16 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:04 pm

Your nice and violent aren't you? I hope something like this doesn't happen but if it did, all pax and crew would most likely be killed and bystanders will get hit by a rain of debris from the building and jet killing them. (you know sharp glass jet engines nothing to bad  
The Ohio Player
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:39 am

OK, what's the biggest aircraft you think the towers could sustain an impact without toppling? I think a 737 or MD-80, slowed up for landing with gear and flaps out, shouldn't be going so fast that it'd fall. Then again, maybe it would. Either way, I'm sure no one wants to find out.
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 12:01 pm

This scenario is really hellish... I think the flight disaster record (Tenerife, 1977, 582 dead) might get reset by a lot.

You would easily have 1500 or more, since you would have a 200 in the plane, at least 500 in the building, and a real s*itload on the ground. If the building managed to fall, there might be 5 or 6 thousand dead. Oh well. That's why they put a/c lights on buildings...

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5806
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:09 am

Since we can now reply to any thread, this one is particularly prescient.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18838
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: RE: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:37 am

redngold wrote:
And yes, I know the collision was an Air Force B-29 piloted by a self-assured USAF officer flying in dense fog.


The aircraft that collided with the Empire State Building was a twin-engine B-25, much smaller than the 4-engine B-29 which is roughly twice as large in dimensions and weighs about 4 times as much.
 
jetblue32
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:05 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:07 am

If I read correctly, back in 1973 someone was planning to crash a 707 into the White House to assassinate President Richard Nixon; supposedly into a crowd of people in front when he was giving a speech. They even made a TV movie about it; looks like he didn't plan very well.
 
LAX772LR
Posts: 5923
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:37 am

N328KF wrote:
Since we can now reply to any thread, this one is particularly prescient.

Yep, pretty creepy.

For those who haven't noticed, this thread was made BEFORE 9/11
We'll discuss... later, if you somehow manage to survive that is. ~Sesshomaru
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18838
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:43 am

LAX772LR wrote:
N328KF wrote:
Since we can now reply to any thread, this one is particularly prescient.

Yep, pretty creepy.

For those who haven't noticed, this thread was made BEFORE 9/11


Hadn't noticed that. I didn't think 16-year-old threads could be resurrected? Is that a change with the new site?

In any case, when such an old thread is resurrected it would be courteous to other members if they would mention it.
 
MD95sOverATL
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:32 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:47 am

Dear God this is an eerie post.. Wow.
EMB120, CRJ200, MD88, MD90, 717, 737, 757, 777, A319, A321
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3690
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:57 am

It's happening!

Image

Viscount724 wrote:
In any case, when such an old thread is resurrected it would be courteous to other members if they would mention it.


If you didn't realize it was a 16 year old thread, then chances are whoever resurrected it didn't pay attention either...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
jeffh747
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:32 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:05 am

This is really, really eerie. Before I noticed this thread was sixteen years old, I was asssuming they were talking about the new WTC under different circumstances.
A318 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B737 B738 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8 E145 E190 MD82 MD83
 
LAX772LR
Posts: 5923
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: If A 707 Hit The World Trade Center?...

Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:26 am

Viscount724 wrote:
I didn't think 16-year-old threads could be resurrected? Is that a change with the new site?

When the cut-over happened, it unlocked all threads.


Francoflier wrote:
then chances are whoever resurrected it didn't pay attention either...

There's about a half dozen of them floating around now, but seems Mods are locking them as they appear. One poster even admitted to going back and replying to the original post on purpose.
We'll discuss... later, if you somehow manage to survive that is. ~Sesshomaru

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Amwest2United, AsiaTravel, BrianDromey, coolum, dmorbust, EK413, Google Adsense [Bot], hinckley, KarelXWB, MrBren, nighthawk, qvb222, sassiciai, seansasLCY, StTim and 233 guests