Guest

747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:37 am

As of now, Boeing has no plans of building a 787 or a total new airplane. Now we hear rumors about Boeing to not go ahead with the PROPOSED 747X in plan. I think Boeing may have a completly different airplane behind their sleeve in preparation for the A3XX. The A3XX has been in serious discussion for years, and Boineg has kept a close eye on that. But I think the reason for Boeing to not be so public about their new 747 is because they have something else in preparation. I believe they have redesigned the 747 in order for the A3XX. The 747X is an easy way to tell the public about Boeing's plan. I think Boeing is to launch the 747X very soon, but will it be a stretched version of the 744? Thats my point of the topic, Boeing does have a new 747 in plan for the A3XX, I assure you on that. But it just might not look like today's 747. Boeing is honored so much because of the 747, and now the 777 plays a big role in this too. Boeing does not want to end 747 production in 10 years, 20 years, or even 30 years because the 747 makes them so honored and famous. I'm here to tell you that the 747X that you will see on Boeing's website may not look like that. I think Boeing has been designing an "almost" total new plane, it will still be named the 747, but if you showed it to some person who doesn't know anything about aviation, they wouldn't reconize it as a 747. I know Boeing would not let Airbus take over the market, the PROPOSED 747X would not be a good solution to the A3XX, and I think Boeing knows that. The plane that Boeing does launch in fight with the A3XX, may be the PROPOSED 747X, or it may look completely different and much bigger, but it will still be the 747.

Any thoughts on this?
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:41 am

Umm.... how about looking at some of that info on Boeing's website. The 747X will be a super-modern, streched, extended range 747, if it is ever launched. It basically has all the qualifications of the plane you are describing, except that a 747X looks like a huge 744.
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:44 am

Yes, I agree, but I don't think that is all that Boeing has done...

 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:43 am


Just a question about this super secret Boeing VLA (alias 747X). What is
the point developing a commercial plane in secret? If nobody knows about
it or rather what it is capable, who is going to buy it? Or rather why anyone
or any airline would buy anything without studying it for monthes? And if you
let airlines know about this secret VLA everybody will know about it within
no time (especially Airbus).
I think you just watched too many James Bond movies!

Janos
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:52 am

Agree with Magyar. We're not talking about a stealth bomber here. They need to know what airlines want and Boeing has shown a tremendous amount of respect for their opinions and needs during the developmental stages of 777. I think it'll be foolish on Boeing's part to keep it to themselves. If it was kept secret all this time, it probably hasn't gone past the initial phase of development anyways. Shareholders demand answers- and even an initial prospectus of such an airplane requires significant financial resources. I think you're right in some respects- 747X may look different from today's 747. But it won't be as radical as A3XX. Boeing knows there no room for 2 plane makers fighting for A3XX market. That's why DC and Lockheed killed themselves. They'll do the fiscally responsible thing- and that is improving upon their current platform.
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 11:33 am

To surprise Airbus??

 

Anyway, you all had very good points.

I do think that whatever it is, it will give the A3XX a real battle.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 11:39 am

I think the 747X is an interim solution to the A3XX. Airbus is taking a huge risk, spending tons of money developing the A3XX. Boeing quickly cranked out an inexpensive but worthy design of a stretched and modernized 747. If the A3XX does really well, Boeing will most likely come out with a new aircraft, which they probably have designed now, but won't go ahead with it until they're sure it's worth it. If the A3XX fails, and there isn't a market for super jumbos, then Airbus will likely go bankrupt. Boeing however, will be fine.
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:20 pm

Very good post there Cba!

I agree!

I think the reason for not launching the new 747s is to see whether the A3XX will do ok. Then Boeing can't make a make a mistake in launching the 747X.

Rgds,

B744
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 12:36 pm

Cba, B747-400.......

To think that Boeing have already designed a new aircraft to compete with the A3XX is so ridiculous it makes me cry!!! Do you know how many engineers, tests, even companies, it takes to design a new aircraft? Are you telling me Boeing has designed a brand new aircraft, hiding hundreds of engineers in an underground bunker somewhere, maybe AREA 787?!! Are you telling me Boeing has designed a brand bew aircraft without any communication with the thousands of companies it takes to design such an aircraft??!! And are you telling me that the Boeing design philosophy for the 777 of including the airlines in the design process has suddenly reversed??

Boeing's stance to me is not as foolproof as it seems....whether Boeing like it or not, if they decide to build a VLA, it will probably cost them the same as it has Airbus, about $12 billion, though Boeing will have had the added cost of building an interim solution, costing $4 billion.....and while the world waits for this Boeing VLA, Airbus will probably have raked up enough orders question the viability of a Boeing VLA.....



 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:40 pm

Widebody,

No, that's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that the 747X that does roll out of the hangar may not look and be like the 747X pictured. I didn't say at all anything about a totaly new plane, like a 787. The 747X could look a lot different than pictured, after all, there's only a few pictures of it anyway, so we may not know the REAL looks and design of it until it is launched. I described possibilities of the 747X besides the one pictured at Boeing's website.
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:55 pm

It would take a huge amount of testing and time to change the basic shape of the 747......when dealing with an object this big moving through the air, aerodynamic qualities are very important, as Airbus have learnt from the A3XX.......many, many wind tunnel test would have to be carried out before the basic change could be changed.......I really don't believe Boeing could have all this done already.........the A3XX is costing $12 billion...if Boeing decide to change the shape of the 747X, then their costs could approach this figure..........don't forget, Boeing would have to match the 20% reduction in operating costs promised by Airbus, which in itself is going to cost an awful amount of money.......
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 2:04 pm

One of the contenders for the final B747 design in the mid nineteen sixties looks nigh on identical to the A3XX, without the massive engines. These 'radical' new designs are not that radical!
Food for thought.  
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 2:16 pm

Agreed, but the testing to get such a design to production is phenomenal.......testing Boeing couldn't have done already......
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 2:29 pm


Just two thoughs. What if Boeing comes out with a new VLA but the
market cannot support both this and the A3XX and both company
get bancrupt? Then do we go back to ocean liners and railway  ?

Second, Boeing actually can save a lot not to come out first with a VLA!
They can learn from the A3XX designs, errors and experiences. Much
like in the case of A330/340 and B777!

However, if there is market only for one VLA, then not coming out
first can backfire!

Janos
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 3:42 pm

This plane Qantas just ordered, the Longer Range 747-400 is or is not a part of the 747X family?

Thanks,
russell
 
aerosol
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 10:31 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 4:18 pm

In my opinion Boeing is doing a good job not to develop a completely new airplane. I read in an article that the development of the advanced 744 is the result of a new company culture which is one of the things that came which the merger (Boeing/McDD). That new company culture's aim is to create shareholder value. Every investment is checked carefully if there`s a market and to make it as profitable as possible. Of course the development of a new plane is expensive and very risky. The article I read can be found on www.fortune.com and is called Boeing VS. Boeing
An interesting development is the Boeing BBW (Blended Body Wing), which could be the next really new aircraft that Boeing is going to develop. Currently they are doing studies if the revelutionary design will be accepted by the passengers (e.g. no windows, the only way you can look outside is through the TV). Pictures and an article about it can be found on:
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH0009/FR0009a.htm

Cheers,

Aerosol
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 4:45 pm

If the 747x we know from the pictures is not the one which will look like the one that will maybe roll out of the hangar one day, then there are two possibilities:
OR the airlines know the 747x we know and Boeing shows them something which is not the real one, which is stupid and thus impossible,
or Boeing shows the airlines the real one, which we do not know, propose it to them in competition with the A3XX but the airlines have at the moment still ordered the A3XX (SIA, Qantas, Air France, ....) and not the 747x.
So, whatever aircraft they are developing, they are not able to get orders for it. And in the case of Qantas, this does not only mean they lost this battle, they gave Airbus the opportunity to enter the Qantas fleet, which is difficult to do but once it is done, Airbus has an advantage with its cockpit communality.
sndp
 
WorldTraveller
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:25 pm

But to which airlines does Boeing want to sell its NLA in, say, 2010?

All carriers in need for more capacity would have ordered the A3XX by then.

The order battle is going on RIGHT NOW, and it seems the A3XX is doing quite well.

I think Boeing will at least go ahead with the B747-400X and the B747X (not B747X stretch) and sell them to airlines like AirNZ, South African, Air India, JAL, ANA...

Regards
the WorldTraveller
 
sdate747
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:51 pm

As slick as the A3XX design looks, I am sad to say that the airline business is transitioning to smaller planes and shorter hops, since air travel is becoming cheaper and more accessible around the world. Just look at the explosion in the RJ marketplace - both Bombardier (Canadair) and Embraer will tell you that meeting market demand is a challenge for them. The 747 is a tried and tested product. The A3XX is not. And although Airbus may finally be able to say they make the world's largest passenger airliner, the beauty, elegance and heritage of the 747 line of planes is hard to match. The 747X is the perfect solution. It will come reasonably close to the A3XX in terms of payload and capacity, but will still be conservative from a R&D standpoint. And we all know that budgets and profits dictate plane design. In the end, the 747X will be Boeing's only answer to A3XX, and we will only appreciate their wisdom in doing so some 20 years from now, looking back at this period in civil aviation.

sdate747
saurabhdate@hotmail.com
 
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:24 pm

I think Boeing want Airbus to committ to the A3XX.
When it is too far down the path to be cancelled, and Boeing know the performance figures, they will simply produce a better one. Furthermore, all the money and human resources tied up in the A3XX project is going to seriously effect Aibus's ability to respond to future Boeing initiatives in other aircraft markets.
Ruscoe
 
PerthGloryFan
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:34 pm

Perhaps Bowing(   ) will leave the VLA market to AI and go for something different - perhaps they'll resurrect the Boeing 2707!
Ok, kiddies check that one out.
10 smilies to the first one to remind us what the 2707 was - entries accepted only from those born after 1975.
PGF
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 9:57 pm

PerthGlory,

I could tell you, but I was born in '69.
 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:14 pm

I was born in '82 and could tell you exactly what the 2707 is/was, but I won't spoil it.

Now, to business.

I think that the 747X will fail. This is not because of petty nationalism (although I am European) which surfaces so often in these forums.

Airlines do not buy aircraft. They invest in them. For example, you invest in spares, engines, training, maintenace facilities etc.

Whoever buys A3XX or 747X commits to spend a lot of money with either Airbus or Boeing for the life of the airframe. Ditto with engine manufacturers.

Now, put yourself in the position of a major airline, such as SQ or QF, or even BA. You need more capacity - in the case of BA, you're running 5 747-400s, mostly full, a day between LHR and JFK and this 'fragmentation' thing that all the analysts have been debating is simply not happening. You need a 550 seater.

You have two choices - the A3XX-100 or the 747X-Stretch.

The performance etc. is about equal. Ditto list price, give or take a few mill. (I'm simplifying here).

With both aircraft you'll have to invest in the following:

Pilot training - coz their similar, but not alike to thier brothers, the A340 & 777.
Spares - coz things will go wrong eventually.
Hangars - they're both too big to fit your present ones.
Cabin crew training - got to know how to work the Cappucino machine!
Engines - need power, obviously.
Engine maintenance and spares.

Now, the man from Airbus says:

"We have a new design. It'll go on flying for the next 30 years (hey, the 747 has, so why not the A3XX?) so whatever you buy/build now, you will be making an investment for the next 30 years - perhaps even 50"

Then, the man from Boeing says:

"We have a tried and tested design. However, if Boeing747-400 goes anywhere near it, it'll be trashed in 8 years time for a totally new design."

So with Airbus the investment in the aircraft you need NOW will last 30 years - and for Boeing 8.

This is why IMHO Boeings 'wait and see attitude' may please the shareholders now, but it will come back and cost them dear.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Fri Dec 01, 2000 10:31 pm

Some comments here make me laugh loudly...

Does anybody really think Boeing can just open the hangar in 2010, present an aircraft better then the A3XX and win back all lost orders? Maybe you should add that they already plan a new large field where they can store all the A3XX which they will buy back from the airlines in a deal similar to the SIA-A340-B777 switch...

Come on, who should Boeing sell a new VLA to in 2010 when all the majors airlines will have the A3XX in operation? Even if Boeing can present a completely new aircraft they couldn't sell it easily to A3XX operators. We don't talk about old chairs which get replaced by new chairs, we talk about aircraft which cost several hundreds of dollars per unit!
But I never believe that Boeing would launch a new VLA as it would be too expensive and too risky to plan an aircraft for a market which will be in the hands of Airbus.
I think some of you don't see the reality. Airbus has gone a long way to be able to offer and build the A3XX, so Boeing just cannot come, see and be successful with less efforts. Right now, very important majors have already ordered the A3XX and other will follow. Time runs out for Boeing that is a fact.
And I think they cannot do anything against it as presenting a better aircraft, and especially a completely new aircraft ist just nopt possible. Not today and not in three years. Maybe they just failed to realize that there IS a market for such a VLA? Too bad...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
oxygen
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 1999 12:27 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:18 am

Nice imagination, Boeing747-400 !
Hope your dream would come true in your dreams !
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 2:46 am

747X doesn't look to be a "real" answer to A3XX, it is only another offer for another market niche, and can be a real success itself (despite slow start) but a whole new Boeing design is something to be seen in future. It may be a new VLA too, all those "who will buy Boeing VLA having A3XX" sound ridiculous - look at A320 vs B737 or B777 vs A330/340 (don't say "there will be no market space for two types" - if the market is "closed" then it can be a fatal disaster for A3XX itself!). Or it may be something else, including BBW - I don't think anybody here seriously believes that Boeing lost its ability to create pioneering things. (Of course, I know, many people here are sure Boeing(Airbus) doesn't know to build planes at all ). But today it is Airbus turn.



 
UA777
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 4:40 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 3:09 am

I do believe Boeing realizes that it would be suicide to invest in a new aircraft to replace the venerable 747. I believe that the 747 will find a new life in the form of a freighter variant, and we're seeing this now with the Korean Air and Air France orders to name a few.
Similar to what we are seeing with the DC10 and MD11.

Perhaps Airbus take this market from Boeing for the next 30 years, perhaps not as long. I believe, however, that we're beginning to see Boeing move in a direction where it can continue to survive, despite losing much of its revenue in the VLA market.

We are beginning to see Boeing make strides to reduce workforce, stream line aircraft production cost and time, as well as other areas under its business umbrella.

Sure it'll be nice to one day fly in the 3XX, but how about the bragging rights of the manufacturer when all of your in-flight entertainment and communications is provided by Boeing services?

Boeing may lose an aircraft order to the 3XX, but they are certainly making money in other areas, areas that Airbus most certainly lags far behind.

It'll be curious to see how Boeing reacts as Airbus continues to increase it's market share in the coming years. Will Boeing take a wait and see approach or will they take on a leadership role, much as Airbus has done?
 
UA777
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 4:40 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 3:10 am

I do believe Boeing realizes that it would be suicide to invest in a new aircraft to replace the venerable 747. I believe that the 747 will find a new life in the form of a freighter variant, and we're seeing this now with the Korean Air and Air France orders to name a few.
Similar to what we are seeing with the DC10 and MD11.

Perhaps Airbus take this market from Boeing for the next 30 years, perhaps not as long. I believe, however, that we're beginning to see Boeing move in a direction where it can continue to survive, despite losing much of its revenue in the VLA market.

We are beginning to see Boeing make strides to reduce workforce, stream line aircraft production cost and time, as well as other areas under its business umbrella.

Sure it'll be nice to one day fly in the 3XX, but how about the bragging rights of the manufacturer when all of your in-flight entertainment and communications is provided by Boeing services?

Boeing may lose an aircraft order to the 3XX, but they are certainly making money in other areas, areas that Airbus most certainly lags far behind.

It'll be curious to see how Boeing reacts as Airbus continues to increase it's market share in the coming years. Will Boeing take a wait and see approach or will they take on a leadership role, much as Airbus has done?
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 3:16 am

I think you have to realise that 40% of Boeing civil avaition profits have come from the 747, simply bacuse they've been able to set a price, and no one else can challenge it......this is what baffles me, why is Boeing sitting back and letting their main competitor get such a hold on the market......it all very well to 'wait and see', very nice in theory but in practice not so comforting......Boeing have already lost about 70 sales of a market they predict at 330 aircraft....that is a very large loss......
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Widebody

Sat Dec 02, 2000 4:21 am

A loss is when you invest and can't sell. Boeing has NO LOSSES on VLA market.
I very doubt Boeing has 40% of its profits from 747 (at least without freighters) - it is their biggest and most expensive product but the least in demand - and everything they invested in sells either well or very well or extremely well (taking into account time the product is on market; th same, of course, for Airbus). Even if 747 is so critical for Boeing profits/survival - it will still be sold almost disregard A3XX success - because they are IN DIFFERENT MARKET (even more, if there is no market for A3XX then it is hardly to expect good sales of 747 too).

Oh, sorry, somebody said already that A3XX won against... 777! 
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 4:23 am

Some people really make me laugh! Just to tell you all that the Qantas B747X order was not a new order but rather a conversion of B747 400 options:

Now take a good look at the latest A3XX clients:





Jeremiah Teahan

(I am not one of those mad Airbus fans. I am neutral but I believe Airbus wins it on the VLA issue)
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:16 am

Is the Longer Range 747-400 that Qanatas just ordered the other day a member of the 747X family? Anyone know?
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:16 am

How funny to see these pictures in "747X May Not Be What You Think..." thread - that's what makes ME laugh! 
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: TWAneedsNOhelp

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:36 am

Yes, 747-400X is a member of new 747 family. Actually, see www.boeing.com, "With the Nov. 28, 2000, launch of the new Longer-Range 747-400, all references to the "747-400X" are now changed to the Longer-Range 747-400." Others are 747X and 747X Stretch. Unlike 747-400LR they have dimensions different from current 747-400.
 
OH-LGA
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:40 am

LOL @ RIX... true true  

But seriously for Boeing it's not looking too hot at the moment, I mean that Qantas order was probably one of the worst slap-in-face to Boeing in quite some time, hello Qantas has shopped for planes in Everett at the Boeing Boutique (like it?  ) for about 47 years now, and then now they purchased jets from Toulouse at the Airbus Shoppe.

I relate the Qantas order to buying a large amount of clothes at Nordstrom and then going to Macy's and buying a pair of underwear (it's funny and off-the-wall but it works). Hope the best for Boeing as the demise of either manufacturer would cause a monopoly in the market, talk about horror.

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:06 pm

40% of Boeing profits do come from the 747, simply because it is the only aircraft on which they have no competition, therefore, they do not ever need to undersell......
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Widebody

Mon Dec 04, 2000 11:58 pm

Great reasoning... then why only 40%, not 80%? BTW, I was wrong saying 747 is of the least demand, but 21 order of almost 600 this year... 40% of profit?! Then A3XX is going to kill Boeing (and finally we won't have the stupid wars here)! 

OH-LGA: I'd agree (may be) with "the worst slap-in-face to Boeing" if we see that Boeing made a terrible mistake in suberJumbo market size prediction (and so didn't start a new VLA design). But I'm still not sure if Boeing WOULD invest to VLA instead of something else for future (again, I'm sure Boeing has what to develop) - that's why I said "may be". Airbus is REALLY a great aircraft manufacturer - what so outstanding if this time they are the pioneers? Or am I the only one here that always believed thew could be ones?
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Tue Dec 05, 2000 4:06 am

The 40% figure is one from about 4 years ago, so I guess it is different nowadays with the introduction and success of the 777.....however, when the need comes for a replacement for all those 747's in service, what will happen? The A3XX will be established in large 747 operators fleets such as SIA, QF, Air France, Virgin, Cathay etc. ...by this time Airbus plans to have the 481 seat A3XX-50 in service.....I'm not saying Boeing are going to lose the entire market, but probably a good portion of it........just an opinion, I think Boeing took the wrong choice, and are in danger of losing their dominance in the LA/VLA market.........as the old saying goes, the hardest step is getting your foot in the door, and Boeing instead of fighting for the market just took the door off and threw it away.......
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Widebody

Tue Dec 05, 2000 5:38 am

"Boeing took the wrong choice" - that's quite possible. At least, as I said before, for me 747X looks to be a niche aircraft and, yes, may be a success itself, but it is not a real answer to A3XX.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1629
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Tue Dec 05, 2000 9:51 am

I think it's a bit cute of Boeing to call the 744LR part of the 747X range. Realistically it is an add on to the existing 744 range. The design changes between 744 and 744LR are minor when compared with what is required to go to the full scale 747X. The 744LR differs little from today's extended range 744s used by QF and UA on routes such as MEL-LAX. Yes, there is some updating of avionics, more powerful engines and of course updated 777 style interior (am I the only one who thinks the much vaunted 777 interior is a very successful piece of industry hype but probably ultimately unnoticed by the travelling public? When I flew on 777 I can't say I was surrounded by people complimenting the design of the overhead locker.)

The 744LR is a step along the way to the 747X just as the 743 was a step along the way to the 744 but I feel that in years to come the 744LR will be seen as part of the 744 family not the 747X family just as the 743 is part of the 747 classic family.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
Guest

RE: 747X May Not Be What You Think...

Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:06 am

The only interior that comes even close to the 777 in terms of aesthetics & smoothness is the A320s (at least United's). Incorporating the 777 style interior into all new planes should be incorporated into it's own FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation).

God Bless the Seventh Wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos