SInGAPORE_AIR
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SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:53 pm

For about twelve years so far, Singapore AIrlines Ltd. have asked the British Governement for permission to fly from LHR - USA. All British carriers have "fifth freedom rights" (Whatever they are), to fly from LHR-SIN-places like Australia.

The governemnt says they won't allow SIA to fly until they have finished their own open-skies agreement. But wait, the US authorities have already granted SIA permission so the UK is getting in the way. Air India fly a daily service from LHR - JFK.

The British Government is being unfair.

What do you think????????
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
gkirk
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 6:19 pm

The UK Government sucks. Why don't SQ fly from MAN-JFK until they get permission to fly LHR-JFK?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:28 pm

I will put that to SIA. They do fly MAn - BOMBAY. But yo usee, LHR has a much bigger market than MAn and currently, pepople who use SIA's SIN - JFK say that they prefer to transit in LHR than in FRA>
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
nycank
Posts: 232
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:34 pm

Singapore_Air: Are you saying that SQ is now flying MAN-BOM non-stop ? or
is this via SIN ?
 
gkirk
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 10:17 pm

MAN-Singapore is flown daily. Some days it is flown via Paris CDG and other days its flown via Bombay.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
conair
Posts: 187
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sat Dec 02, 2000 10:50 pm

MAN- SIN is flown daily, 3 times a week via Amsterdam 2 a week via Bombay and once a week each from both Paris & Zurich. This is for winter 2000
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 12:17 am

Quote from Singapore Airlines timtable

SQ333: MAN - CDG - SIN (Monday)
SQ345: MAN - ZRH - SIN (Tuesday)
SQ327: MAN - BOM - SIN (Thursday
SQ327: MAN - AMS - SIN (Wed - Fri - Sun)
Where's Saturday?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Mr.BA
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 12:45 am

Hmm.. no offense. Seems that the British government is jeolous of SIA. It was voted best scheduled airline... and BA was far back. Maybe they want to protect BA??? As Air India can't compete much with BA... BA is much better but SIA is a big rival.

Don't be offended... it's just my 2 cents worth

Alvin  
Boeing747 万岁!
 
747firstclass
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 12:47 am

I think this arrangement is a sham. What i dont understand is this. i have been told that Singapore has granted some rights to BA about picking passengers up in Singapore and taking them to other countires. Since SN is having a very very difficult getting those rights from LHR, cant Singapore revoke the rights from BA until SN gets the LHR-USA rights.To me it would seem to be the fair way.
 
User avatar
Plane Holland
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 1:01 am

The Fifth right: Freedom to pick up and transport passengers and their baggage, mail and cargo to every other destination, and to drop off ....from every other country. ...Not all governments have accepted all five freedom rights. The fifth right is purely commercial....so I agree with Mr. BA..

PH-ARJAN
 
caetravlr
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 1:07 am

I personally, and this is just my opinion, would not want to see another airline fly from the US to LHR until more US carriers, such as Delta and Continental get that right.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
conair
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 9:18 am

Singapore Air
Saturdays flight is SQ327 MAN-BOM-SIN, all flight,s seem to come inbound from different destinations on each flt, eg the Saturday morning inbound flt routes SIN-AMS-MAN
 
watewate
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 11:37 am

ah-men to CAETravlr
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:49 pm

Mr.BA: I am not offended, but pleased, a lot. However, I am surprised that you would say such a thing about your fav airline.

CAE Traveller: Oh well

Another note. British Midland are trying to fly to the US from LHR as well. I guess they'll have to wait as well then.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Mr.BA
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 6:01 pm

Hello Singapore_air,

Well, that's just my thoughts. And that's what I really think. I don't think that BA is bad... neither is SIA. I really don't know what the British Government is thinking. Our Singapore government has already given BA rights to fly freely into Singapore and now BA regards here as a small hub.

My 2 cents worth 

Alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
airnewzealand
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 6:02 pm

That is a shame as i think alot of people will fly SQ to JFK from LHR. BA is just jealous and scared that SQ will get the passengers and they won't as SQ is a better airline than BA.
Cheers
mikey  
 
Mr.BA
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 6:07 pm

AirnewZealand,

Well, BA said that if the deal goes through and SIA was llowed to fly from LHR to the US, it welcomes the competition. Let's see.

Alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 6:18 pm

Yes Mr.BA, let's see. Well actually we won't for a long time. I shouldn't have voted for Labour. I'll vote Green next time.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
eg777er
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Sun Dec 03, 2000 10:51 pm

Singapore_Air - if you are 13, as your profile states, you would have been 10 at the time of the last general election.

The date for voting in the UK is your 18th Birthday.

Care to explain?
 
cathay250
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 12:32 am

Hello everyone

I just want to ask why you think a SIA LHR-JKF is needed? Why these two city need a sinaporean airline to link between them?
 
caetravlr
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 12:42 am

Singapore_Air,

I am not sure what you meant by "oh well". However, I think about it from a much bigger picture than seeing an airline I like get a cool route. There are many economic and political factors that make me think it would suck to see another airline get that route, with US airlines still having to wait on these negotiations between the US and UK govs, which seems to be a joke at the moment. Think about it, most of our major carriers cannot fly from our own country to LHR, but another airline can stop here in the US and pick up pax, and then fly to LHR? What kind of slap in the face is that for our airlines.

Now, just so you know, I love SIA, at least from what I have heard about them, and an dying for the next available opportunity to get onboard one of their aircraft for a longhaul flight. I want to experience the service that has gotten a lot of people referring to them as the best airline in the world. This is to say that it is nothing against SIA, but it is in defense of our own carriers.

CAETravlr

P.S. - If they want to fly from anywhere in the US to LGW, that would be just great.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 1:16 am

If SQ wants to fly from Decatur,IL or Decatur,GA to LGW and onwards to SIN it is still not right. LGW is NOT an open airport under the Bermuda II agreement. A locallly based US/UK carrier is not allowed to fly from any US or UK city to LGW or LHR so why should some third party airline from some other country be allowed these rights? Who cares that BA has a pseudohub in Singapore and can do whatever they want, that is what their respective governments have agreed to in past negotiations. It doesn't give SQ the right to fly from the UK to anywhere in the US. Who cares if somebody thinks it would be "cool" to have SQ flights from JFK to LHR. While I do agree that SQ is one of the best but until the local carriers from the US/UK are allowed to have these route authorities SQ and any others not from the US/UK can stay the heck out.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 2:32 am

Oh well

Eg777ER: I am 15 actually (26 Nov) and I just tell my parents who to vote for. You see, I follow stuff, they bring in the money (not a nice phrase but it's brief. Iam sure you know what i mean). Oh and Hello again.

CAEtraveller: Lovely. I agree. The UK Governement is trying to protect BA somehow, although it is bizarre as what helps the government if they protect BA?? I think, that no one controls the air so they can sling their hooks. Whatever airline, be it SQ, AI, VS, AA, UA, CO, US, SW, etc... wants to fly from US - LHR, they should have the right to do so (as long as there's enough air and airport space). Lovely

Do SIA advertise in the US?

Nodownloackesd: Well if that's what you think fine. But look at it here. If it's two ways then it's fair. And why shouldn't the British people be given a choice of just 4/5??

If one wants to know more then visit www.singaporeair.co.uk and then the Transatlantic Choice section.

Oh and you'll be pleased to know they've just been refused permission... again.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Megatop747-412
Posts: 255
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 5:39 am

Just another point to add (tho not directly related to the thread's topic), I think SIA is kind of frustrated of not getting such right (LHR-US), that they actually acquired a 49% stake in Virgin instead last year. Seemd that they'll be offering SIN-US via LHR with code-share on VS's LHR-US flight soon - I know to the pax who choose to fly SIA all the way, having VS taking up the LHR-US routes is different from getting on an SIA plane on the sector, but I think on the business sense that's perhaps best for SIA right now...

Just my 2cents thots...
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:01 am

SIA shouldn't be upset for not getting the rights to fly that lucrative route. If they honestly thought they stood a chance, they must have been on some serious drug. SIA is brining up this issue because they've got nothing to lose. What does Britain stand to gain from giving away such right? Simply put, NONE. Sure, say BA is allowed to fly from Singapore to US in exchange for rights to LHR to US- Britain's stupid to make that trade.
 
Guest

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 8:43 am

Singapore has let BA/QF have a hub in SIN to compete with SIA,who also hubs in SIN.In a way,that isn't fair.And Cathay250,they want the route as it is lucrative.You are trying to be funny aren't you?


Gundu
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Mon Dec 04, 2000 11:42 pm

BA and the BAA are a virtual cartel when it comes to control of london Heathrow. It's a disgrace. The US govt. and American carriers have to some degree allowed this to occur through a very lop-sided so-called aviation policy viz a viz rights to fly through Heathrow.

Frankly, I'd love to see SQ link the East Coast to london. I wonder why they don't chase after the Washington DC market because United (STar Alliance) have a big hub there.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 12:38 am

In my opinion I dont see why the British Government should give away rights to America to SIA,while serveal other US airlines and British Midland dont have them.Remember that British Midland are still campaining for their UK-US rights.
I dont know why SIA are planning for LHR-JFK.There is already so much compatition from Virgin,BA,United,
American,Air India,Kuwait Air.Did you know that Air India and Kuwait air are popular due to the fact that they are alot cheaper then the British and the American airlines.How is Sq going to fit in when they are so expensive?The other airlines have already got a major share and breaking that is going to be hard.SQ is not the 1st choice that comes to your mind for LHR-JFK,is it.
In fact they should go to Manchester instead.The Manchester authorities want more flights to and from MAnchester,so SQ should have no problems there.

You might say that SQ the best service,but thats not really what passengers look for,they look for value for money.Take me for example I live in Singapore and I have only flown SQ twice on long haul(SIN-LHR-SIN),but I fly MAS all the time.Why you might say?MAS is alot cheaper and the service IS comparable with SQ.I think all the airlines above have service comparable with SQ,well apart for Air India and Kuwait.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:20 am

G-KIRAN: "SQ is not the 1st choice that comes to your mind for LHR-JFK,is it. " Well it does to me actually

"You might say that SQ the best service,but thats not really what passengers look for,they look for value for money." Well Cubana is cheap. Hardly airline of the year is it!?

"have service comparable with SQ,well apart for Air India and Kuwait." I wouldn't say BA (except in Club).

I've just seen teletext and an airline with code BG flies LHR To JFK. Who are BG??? But competition is what it's all about. OK, if SIA flew then there would be all the others to compete with. It might not be profitable but who cares if an airline isn't priftable on a route (except for the airline, shareholders like me and others). Competition. BA have got problems, they think they're the king of the world.

"There's something in the air.." Yeah, some airline who is scared and hides in a corner while the big cats at the government protect them.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:48 am

Extract:

The United Kingdom government has rejected Singapore Airlines (SIA)'s bid to operate direct flights from London to New York

An all-party parliamentary committee said in August it was "unfortunate" that SIA's attempts had been stalled by lack of progress in long-running "open skies" negotiations between Britain and the United States.

In a written response this month, Britain's Labour government restated that the London-New York route could not be considered until the talks were concluded, the paper said.

"We continue to believe that it would not be appropriate for us to offer trans-Atlantic rights to Singapore whilst a UK carrier...is unable to operate on trans-Atlantic routes from Heathrow," it quoted the response as saying.

The airline, which has been seeking the New York route out of London since 1989, now flies there from Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

SIA said it had not yet discussed the British government's response internally because it was dealing with the aftermath of the crash of its Boeing 747-400 in Taiwan last week that killed 82 people. Now 83. Poor woman died.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
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RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 3:01 am

BG is Biman Bangladesh

G-KIRAN: "SQ is not the 1st choice that comes to your mind for LHR-JFK,is it. " You and me and many other people in this forum are aviation nerds but many other people are not.To the average layman in Britain SQ wont be the 1st airline to spring to mind when he/she contemplates their trip due to the fact its not a British or American airline.To the average layman in S,pore who wants to fly to Jakarta he will go for SQ or Garuda.But will he think of KLM,THAI and Air France who all fly to JKT from SIN?I dont think so!!

"You might say that SQ the best service,but thats not really what passengers look for,they look for value for money."Do you have any idea what VALUE FOR MONEY means?In case you dont let me clear the mist for you.Value for money is the quality of service you get for your money.Thats it.There is a marginal difference between the in-flight services of the various top carriers,so if one top airline is offering a price that is cheaper then another top airline who has the same level of service,then which one would you fly?the cheaper one of course because it has VALUE FOR MONEY.Your only 13-15 years old,you never have had a job in your life so what do you know about getting VALUE FOR YOUR MONEY?I am 16,I get abt $50 a week I dont go blowing it about.I value my money and you should too.

Yes I will admit BA has problems.BA is not the king of the world and neither are SQ.But before that major loss last year BA were earning almost 3 times as much revenue as SQ.

I doubt the British government protects BA like a mother.Why should the British Government protect BA they dont own the airline.Many major airlines in europe get hand outs from their respective governments look at Air France and Iberia.Remember the Brits and Amercans have got their piorities right.Why should they let other airlines get LHR-JFK rights when some of their own airlines dont have them?Oh and may I just jolt your memory for a quick second?Thanks.Do you remember MI185.Many people were suspecting that the pilot commited suicide,but the Singapore government placed the whole story under wraps.Then there is SQ 006 when everyone in the Singapore news is blaming the taiwanese air traffic controllers.Who made the fatal mistake?Look who is protecting now!In the world Politics and business you must protect your interests because no one will for you and thats whats the British are doing now.If they dont protect their back no one will!


 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 6:44 am

"To the average layman in Britain SQ wont be the 1st airline to spring to mind when he/she contemplates their trip due to the fact its not a British or American airline." Fine for them but thats what I think!

"But will he think of KLM,THAI and Air France who all fly to JKT from SIN?I dont think so!! " OK maybe not, but I would think Thai, maybe Malaysian as well.

The money thing: OK. And I'm 15 as I've said before. There are two major type of ppl. Some who just want to get there cheaply, but do expect a reasonable level of service, and some that want to get there but with a bit of frills. So it depends. I would be in between.

".But before that major loss last year BA were earning almost 3 times as much revenue as SQ. " Well maybe, but according to net profit, the gap is much less.

FYI: I live in England. Hemel actually, You? OK, I know that BD are waiting for rights but oh look! An airline with sign BG (whoever they are, please tell me), have just started. Now is that fair? And as to the UK-US thing, the US have given SIA permissions when their other airlines don't even have rights to fly from the US to the UK. Why can't the UK follow suit?

AS to SQ6: It has nothing to do in this thread but here goes. THe Singapore government aren't blaming it all on the Air Controllers. Yeo Chow Tong (SIN minister for IT & Communications) said that it was honorable of SIA to accept full responsibility. And which SIN news agency are you looking at. Straits Times? CHannel News Asia? I am intrigued, as I have downloaded 45MB of video of crash coverage from CNA and I haven't seen any biased. (CNA is based in SIA).

Lovely conversation G-KIRAN. If you are lucky I might puit you on my respected list.

You 16. Lovely.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 6:44 am

"To the average layman in Britain SQ wont be the 1st airline to spring to mind when he/she contemplates their trip due to the fact its not a British or American airline." Fine for them but thats what I think!

"But will he think of KLM,THAI and Air France who all fly to JKT from SIN?I dont think so!! " OK maybe not, but I would think Thai, maybe Malaysian as well.

The money thing: OK. And I'm 15 as I've said before. There are two major type of ppl. Some who just want to get there cheaply, but do expect a reasonable level of service, and some that want to get there but with a bit of frills. So it depends. I would be in between.

".But before that major loss last year BA were earning almost 3 times as much revenue as SQ. " Well maybe, but according to net profit, the gap is much less.

FYI: I live in England. Hemel actually, You? OK, I know that BD are waiting for rights but oh look! An airline with sign BG (whoever they are, please tell me), have just started. Now is that fair? And as to the UK-US thing, the US have given SIA permissions when their other airlines don't even have rights to fly from the US to the UK. Why can't the UK follow suit?

AS to SQ6: It has nothing to do in this thread but here goes. THe Singapore government aren't blaming it all on the Air Controllers. Yeo Chow Tong (SIN minister for IT & Communications) said that it was honorable of SIA to accept full responsibility. And which SIN news agency are you looking at. Straits Times? CHannel News Asia? I am intrigued, as I have downloaded 45MB of video of crash coverage from CNA and I haven't seen any biased. (CNA is based in SIA).

Lovely conversation G-KIRAN. If you are lucky I might puit you on my respected list.

You 16. Lovely.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:02 am

About Singapore letting BA have a hub there. If Singapore would withdraw the rights BA would happily move the flights to KL or BKK. They would be welcomed with open arms there.

So you see who brings the business.

Avion
 
Guest

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:16 am

Slight deviation, but are SQ hoping to fly Singapore-East Coast USA, and if so, with which a/c??

Of course, they would ALSO want to fly via LHR, so as to grap a portion of the UK-US traffic too.

I'm not surprised the UK government would rather wait for another UK airline to be able to ply the North Atlantic run before SQ and others. It's only natural.

Although BA are privatized, I do not think this neccesarily means the Gov't don't support them in some way...
 
Guest

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:38 pm

The UK government has been BSing us for years with the "two airlines from US and UK can go to LHR". Now British Midland wants to start flights there, and what is it? "We should rewrite it for three now." I think that the US should make this newest contract with Britain so that there are four US airlines that go there, as many of the flights here(BA/VS) are 747, and flights there(UA/AA) are mostly 777/M11/767(and maybe a 747 or 2 from the west coast, but that's it.).
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Tue Dec 05, 2000 11:28 pm

Hey Gundu, SIA want to operate this route since they think it 's lucrative? so an airline just simply can operate every route they want once they think it 's lucrative??? So can Cathay fly from SIN-LHR?

 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:29 am

About CX flying from SIA - LHR, why not? Why don't they give it a try!

"so an airline just simply can operate every route they want once they think it 's lucrative??" Well if they wanted to then why has SIA been waiting for 12 years so far for this!?

Oxygen: I think we've bumped into eachother strongly before. "What's the great deal ? Can't fly it, don't fly it" OK then so you want something and someone says no and then you just drop it?! You're not very persistent are you!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:39 am

Cathay250:The reason why SIA want to fly LHR-JFK is because they want to make more cash any airline would do the same,so I dont get what you are trying to prove.

Oxygen:How are the British Government going to find out that SIA want LHR-JFK rights if SIA keep their mouths shut about it?If SIA back off and forget about it,then when these rights are given out,SIA will miss out due to the fact the the British government will think their not interested anymore.

Singapore_Air:I was born in Hammersmith and used to live in East Croydon.
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

RE: SIA: LHR - Usa? No Way!

Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:48 am

Singapore air:something I forgot.BG is would you believe it Biman Bangladesh!I think something funny is going on here as well.How can John Prescott give LHR-JFK rights to some 3rd world airline when our own airlines and our best buddies across the pond still dont have theirs?Corruption?Well Prescott is a bit of a fat cat himself!Just look at his stomach!

I have a feeling that when T5 is complete then SIA might get their rights,but they will have to wait till 2007 for them.

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