polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 8:16 am

Air Canada media release issued December 7th.

Air Canada re-introduces non-stop summer service between Edmonton and London-Heathrow

EDMONTON, Dec. 7 /CNW/ - Effective June 1, 2001, Air Canada will commence
five times weekly non-stop summer service between Edmonton and London-
Heathrow. Flights on the route will be operated with wide body 205-seat Boeing
767-300 aircraft featuring the airline's acclaimed Executive First and
Hospitality service. This summer service will be offered until September 30,
2001.
"We are delighted to be back in Edmonton to re-introduce this summer
service, offering customers the most non-stop flights between Edmonton and
Europe," said Doug Port, Senior Vice President, Corporate Affairs and
Government Relations, on a visit to Edmonton today for the inauguration of the
new Edmonton South Terminal. "With this new international service, we are
responding to the growing customer demand for non-stop service between Alberta
and the U.K. during the summer peak. The re-introduction of this route is also
part of our ongoing commitment to developing air transportation in Edmonton
and the province of Alberta."
"This service represents a critical building block towards connecting
Edmonton to Europe on a year-round basis. It is now up to the community to
prove that we can support such a service," said G. Scott Clements, President
and Chief Executive Officer of Edmonton Airports.
"This new non-stop flight connecting Edmonton and London helps satisfy
our community's vision for optimal air service," said Jim Edwards, President
and Chief Executive Officer of Economic Development Edmonton (EDE). "This
vital link to Europe opens the door to a wealth of new opportunities in global
markets for businesses in our region while greatly enhancing our ability to
attract new companies and tourists. This flight represents our ticket to
global competitiveness!"
Tickets are available for sale immediately. To promote the new service,
Air Canada is offering a special introductory round trip fare of $889 for
travel between June 1 and June 21, 2001, for sale until January 31, 2001. In
addition, the airline will offer double Aeroplan miles when travelling round
trip for the first time on the route between June 1 and June 30, 2001.
Air Canada flight AC3088 will leave Edmonton at 10:00 p.m. and will
arrive in London-Heathrow at 1:20 p.m. the next day. From London, flight
AC3089 will depart at 3:05 p.m. and will arrive in Edmonton at 4:55 p.m. the
same day, with the exception of Tuesday, when flight AC3089 will leave London
at 5:05 p.m. and arrive in Edmonton at 6:55 p.m. Air Canada's schedule has
been designed to ensure the best possible choice of connecting flights between
London-Heathrow and over 20 European destinations with Star Alliance partners
British Midland, SAS and Lufthansa.
With the introduction of the new service, Air Canada and Canadian
Airlines will offer up to 15 non-stop flights per day between Canada and the
U.K. during summer 2001.



 
AC183
Posts: 1496
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 8:31 am

Darn Polaris, you beat me to posting this, I was just about to do it...  

Glad to see YEG-LHR returning, I'm actually a bit surprised but quite happy to see this, Edmonton Airports had been talking about it for so many years...

...and the new YEG southeastern terminal expansion opens Saturday...

...now if they could just get AA up there...
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 8:35 am

Sorry...didn't mean to steal your thunder!! I know there is much interest in the Edmonton area about expansion of services from that airport!
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 9:58 am

Well, well, what do you know? I know I've been skeptical about this, but this is the nicest thing to come along for YEG in years!

But remember the new YEG-LHR service is summer only. Oh well, it's far better than nothing - or having to go through YYZ or YYC all the time. Also, whether the new service is permanent or will get axed depends on the load factors on the YEG-LHR and return. Hopefully, with CP no longer on the competitive scene and Edmonton's metropolitan area having grown a bit in population and economy, the service will continue.

I see that 767-300ERs will be the equipment of choice by AC, but 767-200ERs could also be used, if the load factor is not as high as expected.
 
thomacf
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:11 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 10:30 am

Does Edmonton have more than one airport with commercial service? Someone said "Edmonton Airports".
 
Guest

Thomacf

Fri Dec 08, 2000 11:18 am

Edmonton does have two airports technically...the municipal airport is located on the north end of Edmonton, and it used to serve most of the short domestic flights, i.e. from YYC, however they stopped that quite a few years ago now and have just been using the international airport on the south end of town. The municipal is now mainly used for private aircraft, with the exceptio of a couple small commercial airlines operating Beech1900's and other small twins.

As for the non-stop flight, great to see it back. The last time I was on a non-stop flight from Edmonton to London was in 1992 when I flew YYC-YEG-LHR on an Air Canada 747-200...it was a short stop-over in Edmonton, and the first flight that made me want to become a pilot as soon as I get out of school.

I think this is one of the good things about having the merger between AC and CP, we are going to see a lot more routes that wouldn't happen if there were two separate airlines.
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 11:42 am

Edmonton Airports is a regional airport authority dealing with four airports within Metro Edmonton, Villeneuve Airport, Cooking Lake Airport, Edmonton City Centre Airport and of course Edmonton International Airport (YEG).

The last two have sheduled airline service, but Edmonton City Centre Airport (YXD) lost most of it to YEG, so airline service there is limited to a/c under 19 seats in capacity. This was because a city-wide vote was held in 1995 and most voters in Edmonton and northern Alberta were concerned that Edmonton was losing airline steadily to Calgary because of the fact that Edmonton had two airports with scheduled airline service. Until 1995, YXD had scheduled 737-200 and RJ service, along with regional turboprop service to various destinations within Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan. Afterwards, all airline service by CP and AC was shifted to YEG.

YXD's scheduled air service is now limited to a/c with no more than 19 seats in capacity. There are two airlines serving YXD now - Peace Air and Capital City Air. Both use J31s and Pilatus aircraft. It's mostly general aviation, corporate a/c and aircraft maintenance traffic at YXD now.

This link below shows you a location map of YEG and YXD, as well as the two others under Edmonton Airports' control. (The "ERRA" should actually be "ERAA" - Edmonton Regional Airports Authority, the older name of Edmonton Airports.)
http://www.edmontonairports.com/paxinfo/4airports.htm
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 12:54 pm

Polaris, glad to see someone else watching for this, too. I'm sure the guys in Edmonton are glad for it. Certainly after losing a lot of service in the last decade, this is among the most exciting news for route development there in quite a while. I sure hope Edmontonians use it, and I hope frequent fliers make a point of using it, as well as connecting passengers using Star Alliance connections at LHR to ensure this routes viability. Hopefully it's sufficiently successful to justify year-round, even if on reduced frequency.

As to the 5/week part of it, I wonder what they're doing with the aircraft on the other 2 days???

Samurai777, in addition to Capital City and Peace Air, don't Corporate Express J31's, Northern Sky (PC-12's or Metroliners, I think), and Transwest Air (J31's or B1900D's, Transwest merged from AirSask/Athabaska Airways) also fly into YXD on a scheduled basis?
 
CPAir 4 life
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 4:18 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:31 pm

Did anyone else notice that judging from the flight number this flight will be operated by Canadian Airlines metal and crew.
Is YYC-HNL 7 days a week, if it is 2 days a week then that's where they are getting the aircraft.


 
 
DaveT
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:31 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:31 pm

Well, this has certainly surprised me.... Lets see how YEG and AC can either jointly or seperatly market the service for long term sustainability.

personally, I did not see it happening if anyone has read my postings in the past.

But, although I did not see the exact wording in the media alert, I am surprised with the "immediate purchase" offer for an $889.00 fare to London from YEG considering we live in an economy not knowing what tomorrow will bring and why would you want to commit to a 6 month advance reservation is beside me....

I guess AC can play with "our" money until you travel.... but 6 months is a bit much???

Although, the double mileage is attractive assuming it is for all published fares and not just J-Class. Geee.... do you think those up front care less if they get double mileage.....

Once again, I must sell to all readers of the forum that the "full" service carriers must drop this "7 day" minimum stay nonsence to Europe from Canada and go the route of a minimum saturday night similar to U.S./Europe and originating Europe/U.S. and Canada fares.
 
DaveT
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:31 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 2:13 pm

YYC - HNL is winter months only..... 00/01

YEG - LHR is June thru Sept. 2001

No coincidence nor comparison.

They will not be swapping equipment between the services.

Yes, it is CP equipment and crew as of today but who knows what the summer will look like at AC.

 
mel
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:13 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Fri Dec 08, 2000 2:51 pm

I noticed the flight numbers indicate it will be operated by Canadian. Looks like Club Empress and Canadian Class will be gone on the 763s by summer, as the release said the plane would be equipped with Executive First and Hospitality Service. AC 763s are configured with 203 seats, whereas CP's have 205 seats, so it sounds like they won't physically re-configure the aircraft, but rather change the names of the cabins, if they haven't done so already.
NO URLS in signature
 
Lubicon
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 5:13 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sat Dec 09, 2000 12:53 am

OK Edmonton, AC is giving you LHR service (again). Let's hope traffic justifies the continuation of this service. Edmonton has worked hard to attract new flights but often low loads end up cancelling the service. You wanted it, you got it, now it's up to you to keep it.
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:25 pm

Is it the case that this flight is actually the second daily YYC-LHR that has been switched to YEG? If so, and I think that the slot times at LHR are identical to one of the YYC schedules, then YEG's gain is certainly YYC's loss.
 
Guest

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the second flight from YYC, however I don't think it's much of a loss to YYC, just will help AC get higher load factors on the first flight in the day. They're operating A340's on the route already, I'm not sure what the load factors are on them though...perhaps if this is the case they might upgrade from the A340 to the 747 for the first YYC-LHR service...that would be neat for Calgary.
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

Flyboy767

Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:21 am

Just out of curiosity are you a member of the flyertalk forum too?
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:19 am

Actually, the double daily YYC-LHR summer season flights appear to still be on, this flight would be in addition to those.
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sun Dec 10, 2000 6:30 am

Is Edmonton going to get FRA flights next? I am happy for the city of Edmonton. I think a new airline that will serve YEG soon is AA. Will they have enough people to do a YEG-LHR route? I hope it works. Anyone know how the YEG-DEN and the YEG-LAX flights are doing? Please give me some info on the loads. thanks
YWG777 
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

Re: Air Canada And Star-Alliance

Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:05 pm

May I please bring up a point...
The original article Polaris let us read said that they would have better connections to other European destinations with Star-Alliance partners SAS, Lufthansa and British Midland. Why aren't Austrian Airline Group members included? I think I've heard the same thing about better connections from one European city (I think it was an article about the UA n/s flight from ORD-AMS) to other European cities on Star-Alliance partners SK, LH, and BD. Tyrolean and Austrian both fly to LHR and at least Austrian flies to AMS. Why aren't these airlines included. United even code-shares with Austrian. Does AC not have any relations with Austrian? I'm sorry to go off the topic of the original discusion. Thanx,
Aio86
 
sydneysider
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 12:01 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Sun Dec 10, 2000 8:35 pm

Some of you mentioned, AC´s using LHR as an "Star"hub with connections operated by the European Star members. Just a question: Are the Star Alliance members located in the same Terminal in LHR? I´m asking, ´cause its 2 years ago that I was at LHR. If not, I´m wondering, why AC isn´t using FRA as the hub for the Edmonton flight.

Regards,
Chris
 
Billy
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:19 am

I've checked the AC slot applications for LHR-YYC and YEG for next summer, and they are only showing once a day for YYC. I would be surprised if AC could squeeze five/week summer flights out of LHR and T3.
 
caribb
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Mon Dec 11, 2000 3:11 am

I don't want to sound negative because I am happy Edmonton has finally received some great news about International flights from it's city.. however, I'd keep an eye on Air Canada because they have a history of starting and stopping new routes from non hub centres. They usually stick to their core routes bring other cities on and off line depending on the season and market conditions. From Montreal they've started and stopped Copenhagen, Geneva, Tel Aviv, Dusseldorf, Munich, Lisbon, Athens, Madrid, Lyon, Nice, Prague, Moscow. Zurich, Brussels, Martinique, St lucia, Bermuda, Freeport and Governer's Harbour over the past 30 years.. there are probably more to include.. they have always kept and maintained flights to London, Paris and Guadeloupe.. they so far have never wavered from this but anywhere else usually lasts a few years or less before it disappears. Remeember Vancouver-Zurich, Vancouver-Paris, do they still exist? There were even flights from Edmonton & Calgary to Copenhagen at one point.
Anyways I hope they'll keep this run as a permament one and that it expands over the years to come. Edmonton has been waiting long enough for this.
 
polaris
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:03 am

aio86: Austrian Airlines and Air Canada have yet to fully co-ordinate their schedules. That's probably why they weren't mentioned.

As to services being added and then dropped, the airline adds services but if the market doesn't develop, then the services are dropped.

As Lubicon says, it's up to the community to use the service.
 
superdawg
Posts: 335
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:16 am


Caribb Air Canada even tried Calgary to Zurich a few years back with once or twice a week service and that didn't last!

I hope the route out of Edmonton does well, they need it. As for the second route out of Calgary, that has always been there as that was Canadian's year round flight to London and was only stopped recently. So either the load factors were not great on that flight or with the takeover it's just more downsizing for Air Canada at it's less important airports, that is any airport other then YYZ.  

S'Dawg
 
Lubicon
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 5:13 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:28 am

It appears YYC has lost it's double daily YYC-LHR route probably due to the merger. That would make it easier for AC to find aircraft/slots for the YEG-LHR route. Hopefully Edmonton can make a go of it. As for YEG's LAX and DEn service, I presume since the routes are still being flown they are profitable. Los Angeles has always been a good liesure market out of Edmonton and with the loss of Delta, AC would probably pick up most of that traffic so the route should work. As for Denver, it started as once daily and now is double daily, although with AirBC Bae 146 jets so that route is working too. It would be nice to see traffic grow to the point they could either add one more frequency or switch to larger mainline AC jets (A319, B737 etc). It's not surprising since there are good connections with United to most western US cities out of Denver so the route should work. I hear the ORD route is also doing well.
 
ywg777
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:38 am

yeah all the loads are up on all routes out of YEG. I can see more transborder routes comming out of YEG with AA and UA. Also I think Hourly service to YVR would be a good thing to have. I don't see any more flights to DEN though for a while. The BAE-146's do a good job on that. Also I can see a route down to SFO and PHX in the comming years. what are your opions?
YWG777
 
Lubicon
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 5:13 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:58 am

UA would logically serve DEN and ORD out of YEG. AC already provides 2x daily to DEN and 1x daily to ORD so I don't know if United would be interested in adding to that. Perhaps a 2nd ORD flight, but that could be AC too. AA could pick up ORD but I doubt they'd be interested in a single daily flight. DFW possibly, but they flew that route before (with a stop in YYC) and loads were low ( I flew it lots and never more than 20-30 people). The only American carrier I can see coming to YEG is Skywest (Delta) out of SLC but that may be iffy if the rumours of Delta pulling out of SLC are true. Besides, most of that traffic is probably going AC (LAX and DEN) or Horizon/Alaska (SEA) now. I think if there are any additions to transborder service, it will be picked up by AC. YEG now has 10 transborder flights/day to MSP, ORD, DEN, LAX, and SEA. that pretty much covers the bases well except for possible frequency additions. Hourly service to YVR might be a bit much but I see AC has added frequency and now are at about 10x/day, mostly with 146 and F28 jets with a couple of 737 flights. If traffic grows, look to some more flights going to bigger jets rather than adding frequency (where would AC find the aircraft anyway?). They're squeezed right now and most of the new orders I see will simply replace older retiring aircraft. If there's more demand for YVR flights, look to Westjet to jump on it quickly.
 
Billy
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:37 am

I would not discount the possibility of TWA coming into Western Canada with B717s. Talking to them recently, they seem very interested in puting those aircraft to work in cross-border operations. YEG was mentioned.
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:58 am

Lubicon, the last US airline I'd see being interested in coming to YEG is Delta or Skywest! In fact, Delta does not have any plans to return to YEG. The only new US airlines may well be AA for the YEG-ORD route and maybe UA for YEG-DEN. YEG-DFW? I agree that probably might not work out well.

I have heard in the past that United had been taking an interest in serving YEG. That might happen when the BAe 146s go within a few years (they're on Milty's hit list of a/c to get rid of, along with the F28s and 732s) If that does happen, either UA may use 737-500s or A319s, or AC may take over with A319s. Perhaps even both if the demand warrants it.

The number of US destinations(5) nonstop from YEG are pretty much to the limit now. There may be one or even two more to be added, but that may not happen for a long time.

Expect the F28s to be gone within a couple of years from the YEG-YVR route - only reason they're still on that route is that they add the capacity to the one afternoon 737-200 flight daily, probably because AC can't spare an A319!   The 146s will stick around a bit longer, but will go eventually. The 737, like the BAe 146s, will stick around a bit longer probably. I'd say by as early as 2005, A319s and CRJs may take over on that route. Remember that AC's regionals will get the CRJs within a few years, as the new pilots' contract states. Since CRJ-200s are smaller a/c than the 146, hourly frequency on the YEG-YVR route may work. CRJs would also be very useful in replacing F28s on YEG-YYC.

I do hope that the YEG-LHR service will last - as Scott Clements, head of Edmonton Airports, has indeed said that it is up to the people of Edmonton to keep this route flying. One of the main reasons AC pulled out of YEG a few years ago was the competition between AC and CP, which likely meant that load factors were too low for either airline. AC couldn't even keep flying 762s on that route! It's also probably a major reason apart from low demand why AC couldn't hold on to those routes that Caribb mentioned earlier. Now with one national airline, I hope AC can keep flying the YEG-LHR route longer.
 
ywg777
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 6:30 am

Edmonton will keep the London route flying. I knkow that because whty would people want to drive down to YYC to catch a London flight with this route. I can see AA coming up to YEG as well as YWG. AA wants one world allience in the medium size canadian cities. I will expect they will be here next year. I can alsom see A daily 319 to DEN and 1 BAE-146 in the comming years. UA I think would want to fly YEG-SFO once a day. I remember seeing that on there website a while a go. YEG needs more International service besides London though. I am sure that Frankfurt will be next on the list in a few years. Also I can see a major increase up north as well. It sems that Edmonton is the hub for most of the flights up north.
YWG777
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 9:29 am

Hmmm, interesting. Would the second summer-season YYC-LHR flight have slot applications under CP's operations, as I believe it was flight 3096, and was a CP flight. It still shows in the reservations system for the summer season. Not that the res system means anything... but I was also told the 2nd YYC flight would be back for summer? I dunno. I guess we'll have to wait for the complete summer sked.

Also, I'm still wondering about what's happening with the aircraft on the other 2 days? Operating a YYC or YVR flight? Or what about that rumour from 2 or 3 months ago about YYC-NRT???

Also of interest, here's an article on YEG at http://news.airwise.com/stories/2000/12/976436865.html I think it's a little over-enthusiastic on YEG-overseas flights, but interesting to read, nonetheless.

If YEG were to get new service to the US, I would very much doubt TWA, DL, or any others. And with AC as partner, I don't see UA either (UA doesn't serve YUL, either, remember). I strongly believe AA is at least interested. I believe there is a market in YEG for DFW service. Or maybe AWA perhaps eventually (simply because of the snowbird market, the prairies would be good for PHX flights).

YWG777, additional northern service from YEG doesn't have that much growth potential - there's only 36,000 people in the entire Northwest Territories. The reasons they have so much service for the number of people is because there's no other way to get around other than air, but simple market size limits growth.
 
Guest

Marco

Tue Dec 12, 2000 11:16 am

Nope, this is the only forum I post in.
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 11:29 am

I'm still not sure about AA putting on a YEG-DFW route, because load factors were probably horrible, as Lubicon said. I didn't know that AA had flights into YEG via YYC in the past. It might have been during the 1970s, since I was only a kid at that time. If what Lubican said is true about AA's load factors, then it might not be that different today. It's a bit hard to say, as both the cities of Dallas-Ft. Worth and Edmonton have grown signinficantly since then and both Texas and Alberta are doing well in the energy sector. Not to mention that Oneworld has lost a Canadian partner.

TWA? Considering what Billy said, that's a surprise. I honestly don't know if that was posted here to get attention or something. I seriosly doubt that a YEG-STL route would work, but then again, why is TWA already serving YVR? Probably because YVR has better connections to Asian and European flights than SEA, and maybe because of Whistler, an internationally known ski resort. Many Americans like Whistler and Vancouver simply because of our weaker dollar.

AC183, I read that article too. Even I think whoever wrote this might've had delusions of granduer. JAL? Fat chance. YYC's likely to steal all flights to Asian airports. But something tells me that Edmonton Airports really is working on getting nonstop flight to FRA. I'm not surprised at this. And they also appear to be looking at even more transborder routes even as we speak. If America West should decide to return to YEG (it did serve YEG - I have even seen a 747 in AWA colors there a couple of times), it'll likely use either A319s or 737-200s.
 
Guest

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 11:32 am

I wouldn't be really surprised to see TWA coming into Western Canada either, except I would expect them to go to YVR and YYC before YEG. The reason I say this is because AA, Northwest, and even Continental have flights into YYC, so they must be losing some of the market in that area. If they brought in a medium sized jet such as the 717, they should be able to take some of that service away. It's nice to finally see some American carriers finally noticing other Canadian cities other than YYZ and YVR, I hope that the trend continues.
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:01 pm

If I can justify why I think YEG has good potential for AA:
-the DFW-YYC-YEG flights ended in the early '90's, if I remember right. That was a bloodbath period for airlines in Canada. Things have changed, and competitors have disappeared.
-Calgary has 2x to IAH on AC, 2x on CO to IAH, 3x to DFW on AA daily. That's 7/day. While Edmonton can't support that high of a level of service, it can support a part of that.
-don't forget that the old AA flights to YEG stopped in Calgary, and that every seat sold on the YYC-DFW leg physically couldn't be filled in Edmonton, so low loads were also partly in appearance. By consolidating onto fewer nonstops that would change.
-AA has stated before it's interest in the Canadian markets, and it appears to be acting on this by increasing flights like YYZ-DCA, YUL-BOS, YYZ-BOS, YYZ-LAX. Logically if they continue their interest in Canadian markets, they'll also look at other centres.
-NW has a fairly extensive Canadian network. While I certainly don't expect AA to match that, I think it does provide some evidence of demand for service in many cities.
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:38 pm

AC183, you're starting to sell me on AA's potential for YEG! You do have some convincing points about AA. AA is indeed adding new flights into YYZ and YUL. Other Canadian cities may be included in AA's future. Early '90s as the time of the YEG-YYC-DFW flights? Well, I must admit I was wrong as to when these flights occurred. But you're right - that was a time of mindless competition among airlines in Canada.

One of the biggest complaints I hear from passengers going to or from Edmonton is having to go through YYC. So that might have been part of the problem. I did hear that Edmonton Airports have been discussing the idea of a YEG to either IAH or DFW nonstop a couple of years ago, so it might still be pursuing this actively, now that there is less competition in Canada. 2 flights daily to DFW, and maybe once daily to IAH is perhaps the most that YEG could support, given the fact that there are some companies in Edmonton which do business in Texas.
 
superdawg
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 1:45 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:13 am

Delta used to provide connecting service from YYC to YEG and stopped this aroung the same time American did. It's interesting to note that Delta used to fly 757's with good load factors into YYC and now they are down to CRJ's from Skywest! On another note, what's happening with the AC/Delta codeshare that was announced earlier this year? Wasn't it supposed to have come into effect in October?

The management at YYC are trying to get direct New York service and to help ou t they have a poll at the Calgary Airport website. I think they want to show how many people are interested in this route to potential airlines.

America West also served YYC back in the 80's before they went bankrupt, I would agree with AC183 that it would be nice to see them here again.

S'Dawg
 
ywg777
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:35 am

AA will take a intrest in the canadian market very soon. Most of the medium sized airports are wanting a one world carrier. AA is a one world carrier so I can see it happening very soon. AA has launched a few new routes to Canada this past year. Most of them are doing very well. YEG should get AA to ORD and DFW. I don't think LAX yet. Also anyone have any pics on the new terminal?
YWG777
 
Marco
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:21 am

Superdawg, Air Canada are launching a new service to JFK from Calgary starting from March 2001 (correct me if I'm wrong) using the A319...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Rai
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Wed Dec 13, 2000 8:22 am

I grew up in Edmonton and have recently moved away. This news is exciting and completely unexpected. I try to keep in touch with the happenings of the EAA. I was aware that the EAA was lobbying Air Canada for this flight, as well as one to Frankfurt, but didn’t think they would be successful with either case. Stranger things have happened though.

Caribb is correct in that Air Canada has a history of launching flights and pulling them several months later. The recent axes to the Toronto-Austin and Ontario, California routes serve as prime examples. I think the new Edmonton to Heathrow flight could be much the same. Remember, they tried the same thing two years ago with a 767-200. That didn’t last very long. And keep in mind that they didn’t have any competition on that route from Canadian at that time either. The thing that really stirs me is the special rate/deal that Air Canada is offering six months in advance to promote this flight. I am not familiar with airline flight promotions, but I have never seen seat sales for six months in advance. People barely plan moves six months in advance, let alone vacations!

I also read that airwise.com article, which I found utterly laughable. Talk about delusions of grandeur! With Calgary in close proximity, Edmonton will always struggle to attract new flights, especially with Calgary generating much more business traffic. I guess it’s all up to the people of Edmonton in the end.

I’m going to Edmonton for the holidays, and would like to see the improvements and expansions to the terminal, which I hear are quite extensive.
 
Billy
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RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:04 pm

All slot applications to LHR are handled and scheduled under AC operations, so the second YYC could not have slipped past unnoticed. I will check again. In terms of what the aircraft is doing on the other days, it would not surprise mne if the aircraft was a dedicated YEG unit, and that it had down-time for maintenance. I think that it is unlikely that it would have enough time to do anything else long haul, given that it would have to get to another gateway (YVR,YYZ) to do the sector.

I think that it will be interesting to see if the flight continues after 2001, as YEG is hosting some international athletics championships next year.

As for TWA, it is interesting to hear how expert some 16 year old students are on the route strategy of US carriers. I think that it is fair to assume that posts are submitted sincerely. TWA is evaluating a move north to hub for FLA destinations, as well as points easy of STL. The YVR market from the US is largely the cruise market. YEG would be ski, but essentially leisure operations. If you know different, share the knowledge.
 
ramprat
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 11:38 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Thu Dec 14, 2000 12:02 am

YYC has not lost the second LHR route in the summer. As was posted before the second slot always belonged to Canadian. In the past because the loads are lighter in the winter AC always domngraded aircraft to a 762 for the winter sked, and recently used an A-340 for summer. This winter because of the two carriers working together AC kept it an A-340 for the winter sked and freed up the second aircraft for other routes or maintenance/new paint. As far as I can tell the second route which is/was Canadians is back on this summer, and again it will be a 767-300. I will post you if I see anything at work that shows different.
 
Lubicon
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 5:13 am

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Thu Dec 14, 2000 12:48 am

I said Delta/Skywest were the most likely US airline to return to Edmonton, however that does not mean that they will. That's like saying the Calgary Flames are the most likely team to win the Stanley Cup between then and Minnesota - neither will win, but Calgary is more likely to. Same with US airlines coming to Edmonton. It will be a hard sell to get any new US flights. I flew the AA YEG-YYC-DFW route extensively in 1994-95 before it was dropped so it wasn't that long ago. Loads were very low, but I suppose it may be true that they couldn't sell more tickets because they were all sold from YYC-DFW. That portion was almost always full and the departure time out of YYC was very good (7:30 AM) compared to YEG (6 AM meaning getting to the airport at 4:30-5AM to clear customs). Perhaps with better departure times a non stop out of YEG might work. However I am inclined to believe most, if not all new transborder service will be introduced by AC. The US majors may copy the service if it is into one of their hubs.
 
superdawg
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Lubicon

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:02 am

Good One Lubi, although I think we have a better chance of seeing Aeroflot serving Calgary before the flames win the cup again!!!!!
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: Edmonton To London-Heathrow By Air Canada

Thu Dec 14, 2000 3:35 am

The competition between AC and CP was probably already hurting AC's load factors from YEG to LHR during that time earlier in the '90s, even if CP wasn't competing on that route directly. Competition can still affect load factors and profitability indirectly. Simply put, Canadian Plus members and those loyal to Canadian could simply still go to LHR, even if it meant having to connect in YYC or YYZ. I don't remember what the departure times were like for AC's 762 flights to LHR from YEG, but I don't think they were anywhere near as bad as AA's flights out of YEG.

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