luvflng
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 8:59 am

Engine-Out Procedures

Sun Dec 10, 2000 1:07 am

Can somebody (hopefuly a pilot) explain an engine-out procedure on takeoff after V1 was reached and there is no point of stopping?
I am especially interested in how the weight of the a/c affects its ability in this situation, also the workload in the cocpit between the cap and f/o, etc...

Thanks,

luvflng
Radar Contact Terminated, Squawk VFR
 
Guest

RE: Engine-Out Procedures

Sun Dec 10, 2000 1:34 am

> Can somebody (hopefuly a pilot) explain an
> engine-out procedure on takeoff after V1 was
> reached and there is no point of stopping?

Basically, one handles the aircraft the same way
as you do with all engines, except the aircraft now
has less thrust and "some" yawing moment. Nearly
everything will be slower to attain.

Every operator then uses it's own FAA
approved procedures depending on "what"
happened to to the failed engine. Since
the variables are too numerious, you'd
need a small book to explain most of
the procedures. Do you have a specific
type of failure in mind?

> I am especially interested in how the weight
> of the a/c affects its ability in this situation,

Higher weight = slower climb rate, slower
acceleration...

> also the workload in the cocpit between the
> cap and f/o, etc...

Usually it's broken down as Pilot Flying and Pilot
Not Flying. The PNF will be running checklists and
the PF probably will take care of the radio. It's
generally busy, but this is a well practiced event
for nearly all pilots. In the case of a fire, where
time is critical, getting on the ground will probably
the primary concern. The workload in planning
an immediate landing is higher because of limited
time, again a well practiced event.

Hope this helps...

Joe
 
Cody
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Engine-Out Procedures

Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:15 am

Joe did a good job explaining, but I may add one thing. All airlines have certain "memory items" that are to be carried out in the event of a certain occurence. For example, in a SAAB 340, if you lose an engine after V1 it may go something like this.....
Non-Flying Pilot (NFP) - Positive rate
Flying Pilot (FP) - Gear Up confirm Auto-Coarsen
NFP - AutoCoarsen Confirmed (Hopefully he/she says this)
NFP - 400 feet
FP - Identify the (whatever engine that failed) "left" power lever
NFP - Left power lever identified
FP - Reduce
NFP - Reduced
FP - Identify the left condition lever
NFP - Left Condition lever identified
FP - Fuel off, Verify no fire.......

and so on and so on. This is a generic version of what it may sound like. After that normally notify ATC, the flight attendant and consult the checklist.
 
Red Panda
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:58 pm

RE: Engine-Out Procedures

Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:16 am

I remember there was once a DC10 lost one of its engines after passing V1. The pilots tried to stop the a/c instead of keep going and to make a return back to the arpt. The DC10 overshot the rwy and smashed into the residence at the end of the rwy. I wonder why they didn't keep flying?

Regards  ,
R panda
 
luvflng
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 8:59 am

Joe_R

Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:51 am

Thank you Joe_R for the insight as to what goes on in this situation.
What interests me is the marginality of the power available on the engine-out takeoff. I mean, if the a/c is at the MTOW and an engine fails, is there enough thrust to take off safely?
(i.e. a twin engine a/c with 20,000 lb. of thrust per engine, having a failure has its thrust reduced by 50%. It seems almost impossible to take off)

Thx,
luvflng
Radar Contact Terminated, Squawk VFR
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Engine-Out Procedures

Mon Dec 11, 2000 6:45 am

>...engine-out procedure on takeoff after V1 was
>reached and there is no point of stopping?

In very generic terms:

1. Flying the airplane.
2. Don't do anything to upset what you already have.
3. Verify climbing ... raise landing gear.
4. Climb to clear any obstructions in front of you.
5. Level off, accellerate to raise flaps, continue climb at best climb configuration/speed to altitude safe maneuvering altitude.
6. Verify what problem(s) is.
7. Begin appropriate procedure(s) to address said problem(s).

1-3 happens relatively quickly. 4 takes a bit longer. 5 always seems to take too long. 6 begins sometime after 3. 7 begins sometime after 5 begins.

>...how the weight of the a/c affects its ability in this situation

The heavier you are the slower the climb and accelleration. Otherwise no significant affect.

>if the a/c is at the MTOW and an engine fails,
>is there enough thrust to take off safely?

Yes.

>...also the workload in the cocpit between the cap and f/o, etc...

Pilot Flying (PF) has the easy job. Just fly the airplane. Commonly one will see the outside airplane communications becoming his/her job as well. Pilot Not Flying (PNF) gets all the checklists. Anything that does not physically involve moving flight controls is usually his/hers. Captain almost always gets the Flight Attendant coordination duties as well as any Public Address announcements and always retains overall decision-making responsibilities.

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
Guest

RE: Engine-Out Procedures

Mon Dec 11, 2000 12:48 pm

All commercial takeoff's are based on the assumption that an ENGINE WILL FAIL. Therefore when you see a B777 at MTOW, this takeoff was planned using only 1 engine from the V1 point. If the engine doesnt fail, you now have TWICE the power that you actually need.

Who is online