KLMBLue
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:36 am

A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 10:04 am

I read that the A3XXX will need minimal runway length of 11,000+ feet. what airports have that type of runway length? And how long is the longest runway in the world? how many airports will be able to have the A3XXX go to their aiports?

KLM
 
flyf15
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 10:31 am

The longest marked runway I know of in the world is about 37000ft long. Most major international airports have runways longer than 11000ft. Quite a few have runways that are 13000ft or longer (such as ORD, JFK, and NRT).
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 11:11 am

DEN supposedly is getting a runway of 16,000 feet...dunno if it'll actually happen.

Corey777

PS: The plane is the A3XX...you have a few too many X's there 
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 11:38 am

HI

Major international airports usually have longer runways. Take for example Singapore Changi Airport, it has quite a long runway. Besides that it has already started work on it's new terminal. It will certainly have longer runways and bigger airbridges to accomodate these aircrafts as Singapore Airlines have already ordered quite a number of A3XXs.

Andrew
 
Delta777-XXX
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 1:25 pm

Flyf15...

37,000ft???

LOL!! 
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 1:47 pm

Hehe... you must be joking. Serious??? 37,000ft???

Singapore's Changi runway lenght is about 4km.

Alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
flyf15
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 2:44 pm

I'm not joking, but I did make a typo, should be 47000ft   Edwards AFB. 15000ft paved, then as I recall another 6 or so miles (32000ft) of marked lakebed with the consistency of concrete.
 
FaisZ
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 6:12 pm

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:01 pm

What the hell are they going to land on 47000 Ft, damn, even a space shuttle doesnt need that much lenght to land.
 
Guest

FaisZ...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:18 pm

Why the A3XX-200, of course! 

That means one will never land in Seattle, peace at last.
 
gkirk
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: FaisZ...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 7:15 pm

If the A3XX needs 11000ft then in the UK it will only be seen at LHR and LGW.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Sun Dec 10, 2000 7:54 pm

From a runway length point of view it can safely be assumed that the A3whatever will be able to use the same runways presently being used by B747's and A340'ies.

The A3XX will be powered adequately with tailormade engines to avoid history from repeating itself as with the A340's fitted with the proverbial 4 APU's

Cheers
Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
DatamanA340
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 12:50 am


No problem, there is no plane that must use all of its minimal runway length. SEL's runway lengths are 12,000ft and 10,700ft, but you can see all the 747s land and take-off within 6,500ft. There will be so many 737-operated airports with no-more-than-5,000-feet runway.

Gkirk: Isn't Stansted efficient? There are so many 747 freighter flights.
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:25 am

With the antiskid system inoperative on the B747-400, you need 14,700 feet of runway due to VMCG limitations.
 
cfalk
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 2:28 am

Something is wrong there. very few airports have runways longer than 14,000 feet. Are you saying that a 747 without antiskid is screwed, unless he's over Edwards? or Cape Kennedy? I don't think so.

A buddy of mine flies 747s for UA. I'll drop him a line and ask him. One interesting note: He once told me that if you REALLY wanted to, you could land a 747 on a 3,000 foot runway, (assuming you touch down right at the end). Your passengers would definately not like that, as it involves full reverse and standing on the brakes. He told me all overhead bins are guaranteed to come open and spill their contents. But it can be done.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 3:37 am

Yes i am saying that the B747-400 series with B5F engines is screwed without anti-skid. The V-speed decrements are in the region of 60 knots, applying this to most V1 speeds brings you below the VMCG, you can only increase the V1=VMCG if the runway length for takeoff is 14700 feet long.

Taken directly from the AFM.
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:16 am

The A3XX is supposed to be designed to use the same runway length as a 744, so any airport that is able to handle a 744 will be able to handle an A3XX, and any airport that doesn't serve 744's will have no need for the giant airbus so it all works out great.
 
PILOTALLEN
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 11:16 am

the 37,000ft long runway does exsist well its the back up landing area for the shuttle on the dry lake bed in NV i belive im not 100% positive though
Thats not flying, thats falling with style -Woody
 
cfalk
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RE: 747 Runway Length With A/S Inop.

Mon Dec 11, 2000 9:43 pm

OK, I got some numbers for a 747 landing without anti-skid.

Depends on landing weight, flap setting, wind component, temp, runway conditions, and whether reverse thrust is being used.

For a max landing weight landing: 285,700kg, flaps 30, at sea level on an ISA day (15C), nil wind, with reverse the figures are:

Dry runway: 2,110m
Wet runway: 2,430m
Dry Runway 2 Brakes Inop: 2,290m
Dry Runway A/S Inop: 3,720m

Most large airports have runways this long or a bit more. These distances include the usual safety margins.

I have to get back to him for wet A/S inop numbers. They are probably in the range Ambasaid quoted. but the sultution appears to be to get the plane well below its maximum landing weight.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:17 pm

LAS has a 14,200 foot runway, looks like the guests at Mandalay Bay and MGM are gonna get mighty P/O in a couple of years!!

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
BDRules
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 11:29 pm

ive been told by a reliable source that the A3XX could land and take off fully ladened at EMA. Their runway offers TORA = 2893m/9490ft, TODA = 3203m/10998ft and LDA = RWY 27 = 9065ft & RWY 09 = 8900ft so dont start telling me that you need a runway atleast 13000ft long for the A3XX to land
regards an angry BDRules  
 
gkirk
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:41 am

Well in that case Im sure they could operate to MAN which has a 10,000ft runway. Someone asked about STN, I think the runway there is a Tad over 10,000ft although Im not sure.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:04 am

Cfalk,

The figures that i have shown are for TAKEOFF, I got to check out the actual figure in the AFM this morning, I was wrong about 14,700 feet, its actually 15,200 feet... sorry
 
cfalk
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:09 am

Ambasaid,

So I guess if you don't have A/S, you're not taking off. I can understand that better.  

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:50 am

Without antiskid a heavy jet is pretty well screwed. They have to dump fuel and if at all possible find a dry runway. Also..there is no way the A3XX or any of hte new 747 series are going to require more than 10,000 feet to take off. Usually at max gross they can get off the ground in around 9000 feet..maximum.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:52 pm

XFSUgimpLB41X

"Usually at max gross they can get off the ground in around 9000 feet..maximum. "

So you are saying that a B747 doesnt need a runway longer than 9,000 feet???? If so, where did you get your information from?

Thanks.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 3:31 pm

Thats not at max gross. Max gross a 74 will usually lift off around 10,000 feet of runway. I'm talking real life performance characteristics...not some stat book. My dad flew them for several years. Although i know Norhwest uses more powerful engines on their 200's. Its like this..the book says it takes around 1000 feet to get an Archer stopped..but i have stopped a heavy one in only 300 feet on multiple occations.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
VonRichtofen
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 3:46 pm

Does anybody know when the A3XX is supposed to start production? And when it will enter service??

Thanks in Advance!!!!!!!!
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 3:56 pm

XFSUgimpB41X

That little "stat book" that you are talking about is commonly known as the airplane flight manual, ignore it at your peril!

In order to make your figures "real", you should add things like, airplane model, temperature, elevation and even obstacles.

Take a B747-400 on a 10,000 ft runway, Sea Level, no obstacles, it can takeoff with a weight of 428,000 kgs at 0°C, but that drops 2-3000 kgs per degree until you get to 54° and a weight of 349,800 kgs.

Thats quite a difference for the same runway!
 
Guest

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:48 pm

XFSUgimpB41X

That little "stat book" that you are talking about is commonly known as the airplane flight manual, ignore it at your peril!

In order to make your figures "real", you should add things like, airplane model, temperature, elevation and even obstacles.

Take a B747-400 on a 10,000 ft runway, Sea Level, no obstacles, it can takeoff with a weight of 428,000 kgs at 0°C, but that drops 2-3000 kgs per degree until you get to 54° and a weight of 349,800 kgs.

Thats quite a difference for the same runway!
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: A3XXX Runway Lengths...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:02 pm

Yes it is quite the difference. THere are a million different factors that go into play. 54 degrees C is very hot..thats like Phoenix Arizona. My dad generally took of from places like New York and Detroit...so its quite a bit cooler there. For a New York to Tokyo flight Youre obviously gonna need more than 10,000 feet of runway. But for shorter flights you can easily get the thing off the ground in less than that. Either way Northwest uses more powerful engines on their aircraft...my dad still has his flight manuals....all three volumes of it (including the check airmen manual...quite a bit of reading). Ill check it out when i get a chance.
Chicks dig winglets.

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