englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 2:36 am

Hi All,
It would be great if you could answer the following questions or write what you think will happen...

(1) VS are retiring P&W powered B747-200s (4 I think).
What aircraft are these?

(2) Alot of people seem to think that VS will be flying to Tel Aviv, Isreal soon. If they do what a/c do you expect would be used? Could they fill a 747/ make a proffit using one?

(3) They've apparently applied to fly to Muscat (Oman) & St. Petersburg (I guess the one in Russia). I think an A321 would be used to Russia but what about Muscat. BA & Gulf Air (I think) fly between there and London but is there the demand for another carrier flying such large aircraft?

(4) Do you think VS will ever expand into Europe? Currently they only fly to Athens. There've been rumors of Malta soon...know anything?

(5) Will VS ever operate the B767 again (perhaps to St. Petersburg or Tel Aviv)? I realy hope so!


Cheers,
Jamie.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Janne Laukkonen

 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 3:08 am

I know that they were leased but I hope they come back soon.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Brian J. Gore

 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:36 am

ANSWER ME!!!
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:58 am

Hey Englandair...

(1) VS are retiring P&W powered B747-200s (4 I think).What aircraft are these?

I'm clueless when it comes to Engines.

(2) Alot of people seem to think that VS will be flying to Tel Aviv, Isreal soon. If they do what a/c do you expect would be used? Could they fill a 747/ make a proffit using one?

I don't live in England, so I don't know how big the Jewish/Israeli population is there. I don't think a 747 or an A340 would be good to use, as BA and El Al have relatively big aircraft on the route (I think) If they were to start the route, I would think they would have to get new aircraft. Perhaps the 767, maybe the 777, or maybe the A330. Ever thought of the A330-500? I read somewhere that it is (if launched) going to be a replacement for the A310. Might be a good choice for the smaller cities.

(3) They've apparently applied to fly to Muscat (Oman) & St. Petersburg (I guess the one in Russia). I think an A321 would be used to Russia but what about Muscat. BA & Gulf Air (I think) fly between there and London but is there the demand for another carrier flying such large aircraft?

Same as above

(4) Do you think VS will ever expand into Europe? Currently they only fly to Athens. There've been rumors of Malta soon...know anything?

Well, there is Virgin Express, and if they start serving destinations that Virgin Express serves, then Virgin Express might lose business, and maybe they don't want to do that. For instance, my friend was on a flight from Paris-London on Virgin Express, and she hated it. She would much have prefered to fly VS then VS Express. I think they will expand into Europe, but not in a major way. I think they're more of an international carrier, rather than a European carrier.

(5) Will VS ever operate the B767 again (perhaps to St. Petersburg or Tel Aviv)? I realy hope so!

Maybe! The livery would look V cool in a 767!! Personally, however, I think they should scrap every aircraft and aircraft order they've got, and replace it with the 747SP! 

Tom  
http://www.geocities.com/airfreak48


She rulez the world!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:55 am

Cheers 747sp_rulez (although I don't think a 747sp would do too well on the Athens run!)

I had read on hear that because business isn't doing too well for Virgin Express that they were to disscontinue operations as a low-cost carrier and begin services as a normal scheduled airline. If this is true, I hope that they just merge with VS.

I think that there's a fairly large Jewish community in London and on BBCs "Airport" El Al always seem realy busy.
However on one edition of "Airport" there was a Jewish lady who, because she found modern films immoral, requested to be sat in an area of the plane with no entertainment. So many people requested this that El Al had to have a whole section of the plane with no entertainment. My point is, and tell me if I'm completly wrong, given VS's raunchy image, would many Othodox (sp.) Jews want to fly Virgin? So a smaller plane (eg.B767/A330) might be better.


Thanks again,
Jamie.

ps. I saw a Syrian Air 747SP at LHR yesterday & now I'm quite fond of them too!
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 6:08 am

Ok, Take everything you read in these forums with a grain of salt (I say that because all 5 of your questions have been sourced directly from other posts in other threads).

As to the question of P&W engined and RR engines 747s, here are two pics to help you differentiate:

P&W


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Marlo Plate



RR


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Michael F. Mclaughlin




As has been said elsewhere, airlines do apply for routes without the intention of operating them immediately. So, while VS may have applied for these routes now, they may have done so with the intention of seeing how the market develops, and having them ready to use when the market is suitable.

The Next routes VS are likely to tackle will be to SIN and SYD or MEL or BRI in Australia.

As for the 767, I think you'll be more likely to find the A330-200. It has commonality with VS's A340-300s and soon to be -600s, whereas the 767 would not have commonality with anything in VS's fleet.

Hope this helps...
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 6:16 pm

Thanks VirginFlyer,

Which airport/city is SIN?

Also there were rumors that VS was going to stop its flights between Manchester & Orlando (I know I read it on here!) because it's becoming unproffitable (which supprised me). Is there any truth behind this? If so a smaller aircraft could be better. Perhaps a B767 or, as you say is more probable, an A330...?!

Cheers.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 6:57 pm

SIN is Singapore (That is the code, isn't it???)

They could also come to Australia (and New Zealand, hopefully!!!) through LAX or SFO. I'd sure love to see one of their silver 747s touching down at AKL. Hey, perhaps some of ANZ's old 742s might visit their old home!
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:41 pm

I read that it would take at least 3 747-400s to operate a regular service between London & Australia. Is that true?
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:52 pm

I always have thought that VS operated the flight to Athens on behalf of another company (a tour company that needed someone with an airline license to fly the plane)? Perhaps some of these projected new flights are a similar arrangement.
 
na
Posts: 9170
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 11:20 pm

The four PW-powered Jumbo-Jets left in Virgin Atlantics fleet are:
G-VGIN
G-VIRG
G-VJFK
G-VLAX
To my knowledge not a single one of the "Oldie"-Quartet has been repainted in the new colours. They are between 30 and 26 years old when retired next year. So don´t expect them to fly again.
Most likely they will be retired upon delivery of the 7 new 747-41Rs due next year (Which airline took so many 747s in one year since Pan Am received the 747-debut-fleet back in 1969/70?).
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Mon Dec 11, 2000 11:21 pm

BostonBeau- I can't give you a definate answer but on their website VS sell seats on the Athens flights. I doubt that they'd do this if they were operating the flights on behalf of a tour operator.

Jamie.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:00 am

How full are BA's aircraft between London & Muscat? Do you know what a/c type BA fly there? I'd guess a B767.
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:46 am

Oh yes, Englandair....I realize they do. But I thought that was *why* the tour company arranged with a scheduled carrier, rather than a charter company, to operate the flight...to enable them to fill up the flight with "regular" passengers in addition to those with the tour group. Similar to what TWA is doing to various Caribbean destinations from the USA. I could be totally wrong about the Athens flight....it is something I remember reading a long time ago, as to why an international carrier with mostly B747 long haul routes would own one A320 for a single medium stage route.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:10 am

Well I had wondered why VS flew to Athens! Perhaps you're right. (ps. it's an A321)

Can anyone please answer my question- Do you think VS will operate a smaller jet, eg B767 or A330, to Muscat & Tel Aviv if services to the two cities begin?
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:13 am

Didn't VS at one point fly to DUB?
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:25 am

I'm not too knowlagable (sp?) on airport codes...is DUB Dublin or Dubai?!
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 1:32 am

Nickofatlanta....I think you're right. I believe they did fly for a while from London City Airport to Dublin, but again I think they were acting on behalf of another company in doing so.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:15 am

Have VS looked into getting any medium/shorthall aircraft other than the A321?
 
klik
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:32 am

The ATH route was initially operated for a Greek airline (South Eastern Mediterannean Airways - SEMA) which didn't have the equipment to fly internationally in the early 90's. That airline ceased operations in approximately 1995, but VS decided to continue operating the route. They currently operate one daily LHR flight, and, summer only, one daily LGW flight.

Cheers,

klik
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 2:49 am

That's IT! Thank you, Klik. Now I won't spend all night trying to find the information  
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 3:04 am

Again...
...Is Virgin dropping Manchester flights?
...Do you think a smaller a/c (eg. B767/A330) would be used to Tel Aviv & Muscat or even between MAN & Orlando?

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Alan Moss



Even if it's only a guess, pleeeeaaase answer me, it's driving me mad!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 3:10 am

ps. by guess I mean EDUCATED guess!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:00 am

SORRY- I'm being a bit naughty now and only writing this to move the topic up the main page and hopefully get it noticed...which shows how much I want to know what YOU think will happen.

PLEASE ANSWER ME!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 4:29 am

OK-
What type of aircraft do other European airlines fly to Muscat?
 
Guest

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 7:10 am

Hello again EnglandAir...

I think they will operate the A330. They're not exactly buying many Boeing aircraft. I mean, sure they're buying new 744's, but they are also ordering many more A340-600's (I think it's the -600, maybe -500) and the A3XX. They also have the A321, and they have not expressed any interest, so far as I know, in any short-medium haul Boeing aircraft. So they seem very pro-Airbus, so I think they're more likely to swing more to Airbus, ie, the Airbus A330 and A321.

However, I think Airbus should get their act together a bit, and start producing a more wider variety of aircraft. I mean, look at Boeing. They have the 762, 762ER, 763, 763ER, 764ER, 772, and 773. Compare this to Airbus. They only have two varients that can compete with the above aircraft - the A332 and A333. The A340 is four engined and the A320 family is short haul. I believe that if Airbus designed more aircraft, they could be more succesful.

As for your other question about VS closing Manchester flights...well, I just think that they should put smaller aircraft on Manchester routes, such as the A330. The 747's are too big I think for the MAN routes.

By the way, I see you have a problem with airport codes. I can relate! Espeicially in the trip reports forum!! Geez!! But it's just a matter of learning the codes - it's known as aviation jargon. Here's a sight which might help you. Bookmark it - it helps! http://www.airportcitycodes.com/aaa/CCDBFrame.html.

Tom  
http://www.geocities.com/airfreak48


She rulez the world!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:25 pm

Great, thanks alot 747sp_rulez, that sight looks realy helpful.

Thanks again,
Jamie.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Tue Dec 12, 2000 10:40 pm

Hi yet again 747sp_rulez!,

Just clarifying something, VS have I think 10(?) A340-600s on order & are to be the models' launch customer.

Bye,
Jamie.
 
CX747
Posts: 5580
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

No Twins In My Opinion...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:19 am

I truly doubt that we will ever see the 767 or A330 in Virgin Atlantic's fleet. The airline is not ETOPS certfied, and in the past has choosen four engined aircraft of twins. In the mid-90s the airline was looking at the 777-200ER as a replacement for its 747-100/200 fleet. It was decided that becoming ETOPS certified would be to expensive and they decided to opt for the A340-300. The 767-300ER was leased from either Martinair and was used on the MAN-MCO run if I recall correctly. With 7 747-400s on order along with 10 A340-600s they will not need any planes in the future. Possibly the A3XX and 747X but not with deliveries until 2006. Also, the 747 "Classics" are having cockpit upgrades done so they will not be leaving anytime soon.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:27 am

But there's no way that VS could fly A340s or B747s to Tel Aviv or Oman without loosing money...or is there?
If VS have applied to fly to Oman from London (already done by BA & EK) how are they going to make a proffit or even break-even using one of the great big planes in their fleet? I'm sure that there isn't nearly enough demand for VS to fly there with their current aircraft!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:23 am

Also, could you please explain what "ETOPS" means/stands for.

Cheers,
Jamie.
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:28 am

Extended Twin Operations, IIRC, Englandair
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:50 am

Cheers BostonBeau.
 
CX747
Posts: 5580
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Questions...

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:29 am

I am not quite sure what VS would do if they were to receive permission to fly that route. I do not know the capacity demands for LHR/LGW-Tel Aviv. What does British Airways currently operate on the route? One would assume that VS would begin operations with a 747-200 or A340-300. With the upcoming addition of 7 747-400s, the burden of some routes currently being served by the "Classics" would be lessened. As for ETOPS, I do believe that it's name has been changed to EROPS. Again, I do not believe that Virgin will operate the A330 or 767. As stated before, the airline is not EROPS certified and does not want to spend the money or the time (18 months) to do so. I would like to see a 777-200ER in their livery though! Look for an order by them for the A3XX within this or next week.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower