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AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:42 am

Does anybody know if American Airlines is satisfied with the performance it's Airbus A300-600Rs? If so, would they ever consider going for either the A330-200/300 or A340-500/600 which are almost the same body style but longer than the A300?
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:01 am

They won't. AA will be buying Boeing for a long time to come. The A300's will be replaced with 767-400's more than likely.

 
Matt D
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:04 am

They must be if they've been operating that fleet of some 35 aircraft since the late 80's.
But as for whether they will opt for some A330's and/or A340's, I see that as a very long shot at best.
Remember, AA signed up an "exclusive' Boeing deal back in c. 1997.
Look at all the 737NG's, 757's, 767's, and 777's they are getting.
I imagine that's what they want their fleet to be made up of.
So to go back to Airbus would make little sense from a commonality standpoint. I think this discussion was had recently. The only reason AA bought those A300's was to poke a stick into Boeings eye for not giving some price breaks on some 767's, or something like that.
They may be happy with them for now, but they are definitely the oddball of the fleet, and will eventually be disposed of long before anything new from Toulouse gets delivered wearing the double AA's.
 
Guest

RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:21 am

What if Airbus gives them again a very good deal on some A330-200/300s over Boeing on the 767-400?
 
Guest

RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:02 am

Nothing wrong with having a few type of aircrafts, mixture of Boeing, Airbus, Tristar, MD, Fokker, but some airlines prefers what they like for their fleet.

Im going for a few of what I listed for some type of long haul / short haul destinations.


Let AA go for the Boeing if they prefer.



Baec777XX  
 
RWally
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:54 am

AA has said that they are going all Boeing.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:54 am

The exclusivity contract with Boeing means AA has to buy Boeing up to a certain aircraft weight. The A340-600 is slightly above that limit and there is a chance that AA goes for them. The A 340 has Rolls engines like their 777, whereas the 773ER only comes with GE engines, something AA does not particularly like.

Cheers
Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
Matt D
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 3:07 am

From an economic, training, and maintennance standpoint, diversity is NOT better.
Most of the airlines (such as AA) that have mixed breeds like that did so when no one cared about aircraft commonality. Now, and for the forseeable future, the trend will be standardization.
 
FDXmech
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 3:10 am

If I'm not mistaken, the exclusivity contract between AA/Boeing was dropped due to protests from the EU as being unfair. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 5:40 am

I hope that AA goes for the long range A340-500 with RR Trent 500 series engines if AA can't get Boeing to put the Trent 800 series engine on the 777-300ER.
 
Matt D
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 5:46 am

I also heard about the EU protesting the "exclusive" clause with Boeing. I don't remember if it was geared towards AA, DL, or CO, as all three of them made such pacts. It had to be the most pointless protest in the history of demonstrations.
Now stop and think about it.....
what good is that protesting going to do?
Would those airlines publically stating that they would retract those contracts solve the EU's problems?
Ok, fine....I won't SAY publically that I'm going to buy just Boeing.....
I'll just BUY them when I want to...
And turn down Airbus over and over and over and over.....
Isn't that what it basically amounted to?
Besides, who the hell does the EU think it is to tell three privately held American airlines who they can and cannot buy their planes from?
Geez....I don't imagine the EU would scream too loud if UA, US, and NW announced "Airbus only" commitments...
what a bunch of idiots.
 
Guest

RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 6:20 am

I don't hear the EU complaining after Air France and Alitalia went for the GE90 777-200LR & 300ER models instead of the A340.
 
777gk
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 6:43 am

I can remember some European agency protesting our decision to cancel our A330/340 orders and go for the parallel Boeing product. But I don't remember it being the EU.
 
redraider
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 6:45 am

AA may not have the exclusivity contract with Boeing, but you can bet your bottom dollar that they have a handshake agreement to purchase Boeing.

Further, I think it makes more sense, and this has been discussed millions of times before, to go with a standard airframe rather than engines. The 777NG will be a small part of AA's overall fleet and they can certainly outsource engine maintenance rather than develop a new program for the GE's.
My wife can't wrestle, but you should see her box.
 
by738
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 7:59 am

The sooner AA get rid of the airbuses the better. I flew LHR - JFK on an A300-600 and it was old and cramped. I was hoping for a new 777, but it was not to be.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Exclusive Clause Wisdom

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:01 am

I will not get involved in A vs. B flames, just ask a question.
These AA / DL / CO exclusive contracts with Boeing, which may or may not be cancelled, what was the "wisdom" related to them?
I am sometimes involved in purchasing agreements on behalf of my company, on a much smaller scale. The whole game is to have choises. Even if you don't have much choise in reality, then the game is to make your supplier believe that you have different choises in order to optimise the deal.
What is going on in the head of AA / DL / CO managers when they first sign a contract with Boeing telling that they will only buy Boeing planes for the next 10, 50 or 100 years. And then later come and tell Boeing that we need x# of y planes, and we want them modified for our needs, and we want them delivered on these dates, and then ask: What's the price? Are you in good mood, do you offer any rebates today? Oh, you just raised the list price yesterday, that was a shame.
I mean, if I made such stupid contracts today, then I would be unemployed tomorrow.
Did those AA / DL / CO managers totally miss first year at business school?
What about the AA / DL / CO shareholders? Didn't they fire their CEOs right away? If not, why not?
Single supplier system, that is exactly what the former Soviet Union is struggling to get rid of after 70 years of total failure. How can large American business corporations re-invent such a system years after the Soviet Union collapsed?
This has in principle nothing with Boeing or Airbus to do. It would be all the same if there were ten airliner suppliers and they were all American.
After 30 years as a businessman there is something here which is so far away from clever business operation that I am totally lost. Please help me if I have got is wrong.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
watewate
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:04 am

Maybe AA/DL/CO received better deals by locking themselves in for the long-haul? Maybe they have an option to get out during the life of the contract. It makes sense for both parties. It guarantees reputable customers for almost any new planes they launch- since these airlines' fleet requirements are quite broad and extensive. It's good for AA/DL/CO if they had received a nice deal. Don't bash these managers- maybe it was a deal they couldn't turn down.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Watewate

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:31 am

Watewate, I'm afraid that you missed first year at business school too.  
Just in 5-10 years time nobody will know:
1. What products Boeing will have to offer
2. How labor market has developed
3. What progress engine producers have made
4. New environmental enforcements on airliners
5. Etc. etc.
How can they make "a good deal" on an unknown product not knowing anything about production costs neither at prime supplier nor at competitor(s)???
And if they really made a deal which most certainly would turn out to be a good deal, what would the Boeing shareholders tell their CEO when they learned that he might be "giving his products away"?
There is something really strange here. There can only be one sensible explanation if this is not re-inventing the collapsed Soviet Union system. And that would be that all FOUR companies, AA, DL, CO AND boeing are actually owned and controlled by the same investor group. Could it be so?
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
watewate
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:38 am

Maybe you missed my point about having an OPTION to get out of the contract.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Watewate

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:51 am

Watewate wrote:
-------------------------------
Maybe you missed my point about having an OPTION to get out of the contract.
-------------------------------

A contract - or exclusive clause or similar, which you can jump out of by choise, that's not a contract, that's a "letter of intent".
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
watewate
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:57 am

Many contracts include clauses that allow for one to walk away after certain period of time with no penalty.

And this is not aimed at Prebennorholm, but for everyone in general. If a management makes a questionable move, everyone comes out and trahses them. Maybe there was a good reason behind the move? It's easy to judge after things have happened, but let's give it some time and see if the deal worked out to their advantage or not. It's plausible that one airline can be coaxed into signing a bad deal- but to see AA/DL/CO all signing exclusive deals must have offered them serious advantages as opposed to buying planes without their exclusive contract.
 
FDXmech
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:43 am

I'll have to check the timeline but I think the proposed Boeing/AA deal was about the time Boeing was buying or waiting for government approval to merge/buy McDonnell Douglas which also required EU approval. I'm sure this type of international business scenario works both ways across the Atlantic, I'd imagine.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
jkelley480
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:21 pm

AA may have the Trents on their 777s, but thier large 767 fleet is all GE.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: AA A300-600R

Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:35 pm

You know, its too bad that airlines can't buy airplanes like we buy cars. Is it big enough for all my stuff? Is it fast? how many MPG does it get? How many people can I fit in it? What color can I get? How 'bout a moon roof and CD changer? Oh, and don't forget the bike racks!  

It's a shame they have to worry about commonality. I know it makes sense, but it would be a lot more fun if they could buy whatever and still be competitive.
"FLY DELTA JETS"

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