englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:03 am

Why is it that only a few scheduled airlines operate the A330?
I've noticed that it's mainly charters that fly them. Why...what advantages does the B767 have over the A330?

Cheers.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

Maybe A Lack Of Information?

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:15 am

Maybe you just haven't checked enough timetables yet. I can tell you some airlines which operate them on scheduled services and I'm quite sure that you know some of the airlines I mention:

- Air Afrique
- Air Canada
- Austrian Airlines
- Cathay Pacific
- Dragonair
- Emirates
- Garuda Indonesia
- Gulf Air
- Korean Air
- LTU
- Malaysia Airlines
- Sabena
- SriLankan
- Swissair
- TAM Brasil
- Thai Airways
- US Airways

A330 on order:
- British Midland
- Qantas
- Roots Air
- SAS

I may have forgotten some, but quite an impressive list though, isn't it?


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:24 am

Well, there are about 4 times the number of 767s out there. Airbus has only delivered about 200 so far.

One thing the 767 has going for it is an excellent safety reputation. 20 years in operation in large numbers, and only a single crash caused by a design fault (which was found and fixed quickly), and none from pilot error. There have been one and possibly two accidents due to criminal acts, so they don't count. This kind of record is quite rare, and speaks loads for an airline's peace of mind about an aircraft. The A330 has not been in service long enough to have a meaningful comparison.

That said, and speaking as a spotter/photographer, the 767 is one of the most boring-looking planes ever built.   But it works.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
englandair
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:48 am

There are alot more A330s out there than I realised then!
 
LHMark
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:49 am

Also, the 767 has been around a lot longer, becoming "industry standard" before the A330 made its first flight.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:51 am

Have SAS ordered any? I thought that one of BD's 4 (on order) was being loaned by SAS for them to try it out before they ordered any of their own.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 1:59 am

SAS ordered ten 330/340 early this year (together with a load of 321s). They have gradually converted a few 330 orders into more 340 orders. Today I think that the SAS order for 330s stand at four and 340s at six. They will gradually replace old 767s beginning next year.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 2:52 am

I wonder how many / what percent of the total global 767 fleet is North American based. I believe DL is the largest operator. AA, UA, AC also have substantial fleets of 767s too. CO and TW also have some.

I can't think of too many non-N. American airlines with them. I know AF, BA, Malev and QF have them. RG?
 
englandair
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Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 4:11 am

Why will SAS be leasing one of BDs new A330s then...or was it just a rumor?
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 4:13 am

Don't forget that Air Canada has a lot of non-ER 767-200s (due to be replaced soon) and lots of -300ERs to go along with -200ERs as well. I think that the A330 is proving popular with charters because it allows for high density seating at a much lower cost than a DC-10 or L1011...the only other comparable aircraft in its size range.
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 4:17 am

Aer Lingus (EI) also has 7 or 8 A330s!

Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
englandair
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 6:13 am

Is SAS leasing one of British Midland's A330s?
 
LN-KGL
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 6:40 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 7:29 am

Here is the reason why SAS leases one BM A330 (in Star Alliance C/S):

Press release from SAS
"SAS starts service to Washington D.C. - 00-11-07
In May 2001, SAS will introduce its Copenhagen-Washington D.C. service as the first step in the expansion of SAS' intercontinental operations. Initially, there will be five departures per week, but by the end of June, SAS will be able to offer six to seven flights."

1. SAS has today 13 B767-383ER, and all are used on a daily basis.
2. The first (of five - MSN 413, 424, 430, 435 and last not assigned yet) new A340-300 to SAS delivered July 01 and first (of five - MSN not assigned yet) new A330-300 delivered mid April 02. SAS has option on seven more A330/A340 aircrafts.
3. Star Alliance partner BM have earlier delivery slots by Airbus, but no available slots yet on LHR because of the 2+2 deal with US.
4. BM have 3 A330-243 (MSN 398, 401 and 404) by May 01, and only going to use 2 out of MAN to US - 1 A330 free.
5. Why not help a partner in need?
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 5:38 pm

Sorry, I soon realized that I forgot Aer Lingus (5 A333, 2 A332) and Philippines!!

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 5:46 pm

On BD's website, in their fleet information, they say they've got 4 A330s on order but alot of people on here have written that it's 3. I'm going to beleive them at the moment (for obvious reasons) but why do you all say it's 3?
 
OO-AOG
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 9:19 pm

Only the 767-300 is selling good. The 767-200 and -400 current orders are only from US majors (a couple of 764 for Kenya Airways as well I think) while the A330-200 takes most of the international market.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Udo
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 9:27 pm

British Midland has ordered 4 A330-200s, but when the first two get delivered next year BD won't have the right to fly intercontinental out of Heathrow yet, so one will fly to the US from MAN and the other will go to SAS for testing the new type before their own aircraft get delivered.
The aircraft will be painted in Star Alliance colours and will go back to BD after some time, I don't know exactly when.

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 10:24 pm

Udo- Thanks, do you know if both a/c are to be painted in Star Alliance colours? (I realy hope not!)
 
Udo
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 11:21 pm

I don't know but I guess it's just the only one which goes to SAS for some time. I'm quite sure BD will be proud of painting an A330 in its own colours!!!

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
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RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Thu Dec 14, 2000 11:29 pm

I hope you're right!
If their long haul flights go as well as expected & if they begin US flights from LHR, do you think BD will get bigger a/c (eg. A340 or B777)?
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Fri Dec 15, 2000 6:16 am

Of course most of 767s are operated in both North America, Australia and Japan. Well maybe 757s are much more popular. Besides, why do you compare 330 with 767? 330-300 can contain 100 seats more (not in charter configuration!) than 767-300s. 330-200 is bigger than 764.

Maybe one reason 330s are not flying so frequently is Airbus's manufacturing capacity. They have 200s of undelivered orders, enough 8 years to work. And 306 is newer than any 767. For example KAL operates 14 330s, still with more than 25 306s.
 
LHMark
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Fri Dec 15, 2000 6:33 am

European 767 operators:
British Airways
SAS
Britannia
Air France
Malev
LOT
Aeroflot
KLM?
Alitalia?
Am I missing any?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Fri Dec 15, 2000 6:44 am

Excel Airways, next year (?) (formerly UK airline Sabre).
 
lax2000
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 9:12 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Fri Dec 15, 2000 7:15 am

I had a lot of empty TWA L1011 LAX-JFK experiences. You would see pilots and FA's deadheading sprawled out across the middle rows of seats. I miss TWA's L1011's..sniff sniff.

Adam
 
Craig
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:31 am

RE: This Isn't A Boeing Vs. Airbus Post, But...

Fri Dec 15, 2000 7:31 am

Some more European 767 operators...

Air 2000
Condor
LTU
Air Europa
Spanair
Balair
Air Europe
Lauda Air
Eurofly
Sobelair
Martinair

I'm sure there's more

Regards

Craig
Scotland