ILUV767
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Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Thu Dec 21, 2000 5:32 pm

Hello,

Most of the time, the SFO-LAX and LAX-SFO flights are full/oversold. There are aprox. 3 flights/ hour from SFO to LAX. So here is my question...Should UA introduce, oh lets say 6 757s to fly on Shuttle? These planes could be equiped with Shuttle Galleys, and Video systems would be removed. The 757s would fly in addition to the 737s on this route, but would help to ese congestion at both SFO and LAX.

What do you think? Good idea, or bad?

goU N I T E DS H U T T L E
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 3:30 am

Interesting idea...(one proposed by SFO airport).

Instead of flying 737's and 757's, United just needs to put on larger aircraft for all of their Shuttle flights. The 757's could help in the interim (galleys and video to stay for mainline cross-utilization), but overall, United just needs to put some A320's on there.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Guest

RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 3:43 am

Although SFO would like to see bigger planes on these shuttle services, don't expect it anytime soon. The airlines like their planes in the air, and the larger the plane, the longer it needs to spend on the ground (loading/ unloading/ fuel/ cater, etc). That's one reason why SW has been so sucessful. They turn around planes in an extremely quick and efficient manner. The 737 is the right plane for the job in my opinion. I'm sure the bean counters at UA have calculated that the 737 is the best for the job.. and I guarantee the second they figure the route justifies a 757 on economic basis, you'll see it there.

 
timz
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 7:58 am

When the Shuttle started, I think the agreement with the pilots didn't allow 757s or larger aircraft on any Shuttle flight. Does it now?
 
flyf15
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:03 am

I think just introducing some mainline 767s or 777s to the route would be the best idea.
 
Guest

RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:37 am

The bigger the plane... the longer the boarding and unboarding... I think this is UA's biggest concern.
 
CactusA319
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:37 am


Bean counters are the guys who run the airlines, and jam-packed 737's bring up the dollar signs for them. They are the model aircraft for this type of operation=Easy and quick to turn, meaning short ground time, and economical on short-runs. If anything, the A320 would be a better fit on shuttle routes instead of the larger 757. It would bring a capacity increase, yet have a decent turn-around time for Shuttle runs.

The 767 and 777 are the worst idea. PSA tried the ultimate shuttle aircraft out in the '70's in the form of the L1011. PSA was similar to SWA or the United Shuttle operation, as it flew high-frequency, short-haul routes. The L10 was just the wrong type of plane for that, as are the 767 and 777. They are meant for other types of routes.
 
AerLingus
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:04 am

I think what you suggest is feasable for an airport like La Guardia. Since so many airlines cut flights out of LGA due to the government, it only makes sense in for the reduction of congestion.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
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United_fan
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:28 am

I don't see why not if they have the spare 757's. They could keep the video systems for the pre-flight safety demo.It wouldn't take long to cater the plane because it's only pop cans and pretzels!



United_Fan
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Guest

RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:34 am


Average turn time on a 737-300/500:30-35 mins.
Average turn time on an A320:30-35 mins.
Avg. turn time on a 757-45-50 mins.

Time on the ground means a lot to UA Shuttle.
 
ILUV767
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 10:26 am

The reason that you would convert the galleys is to hold more soda, and other beverages. On the shuttle planes there is sort of a closet area with lots of extra soda, and snacks. If you convert the galleys on a 757, you cut the turn time down.

Next. On the 757 you get 2 additional doors. Boarding can be done through 1l, 2L, an 3L. So can deplaning.

Boarding through 1L:
First Class

Boarding Through 2L:
Zones 2, 4, and 6.

Boarding through 3L:
Zones 1, 3, and 5
 
CactusA319
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 10:31 am


Yes, but does UA have 75's to spare for this kind of thing??? They might have more need for those planes on other, longer routes..Just a thought, I don't think you're idea is bad at all. It makes sense, and it's better for SFO and LAX since it would help reduce a few 737 flights....

 
chepos
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 10:39 am

I just think that the A-320 is better for United Shuttle rather than the 757
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ILUV767
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 10:41 am

Possibly...but he 757s have a lot more seats, so you can cut he number of Shuttle flights down by atleast 1/3. Well at least the SFO-LAXsector
 
seven_fifty7
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 11:26 am

Who says flights between LAX-SFO *HAVE* to be all Shuttle flights? Why not have regular Shuttle flights supplemented with a few extra mainline ones? Don't convert any galleys or try to mimic Shuttle in any way. Just treat these extra SFO-LAX frequencies the way you would a mainline SFO-SNA segment, or a LA-DEN one.

Just wondering.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:11 pm

Those who said that UA will never introduce the 757-200 on the SFO-LAX shuttle are right in their assessments.

Between having to embark and disembark 175 passengers, you also have to load and unload a larger cargo hold and likely load more fuel into the plane. That's why it takes about 45-55 minutes to turn around a 757-200 even in Shuttle configuration; WN can turn around a 737-300/700 in an amazing 20 minutes!

I believe back in the 1970's when PSA flew the 727-200 between SFO and LAX their turnaround times was about 35-40 minutes given having to embark and disembark 150 passengers on a 722.
 
Critter_592
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:40 pm

ILUV767,

How can a plane board from 3 doors at a time? 1L, 2L, 3L. I thought all airplanes boarded/deboarded from the front door.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:19 pm

Seven Fifty7 is right, UAL doesn't have to have LAX-SFO exclusively Shuttle. They could throw in a mainline 757 or 320 in there during peak times and still charge Shuttle prices. Some of the Shuttle flights on the route don't even carry the designated Shuttle 2000 series flight number and often originate as 777/757/747/320 flights in other cities and then transfer the flight number to the 737 for the LAX to SFO or SFO to LAX hop.

Just six or seven years ago UAL used to routinely fly 727, DC-10 and 757s between LAX, OAK, SFO and SJC. This was before SW of course.  
 
ILUV767
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:25 pm

Critter,

On current Shuttle flights they board using both doors 1L, and 2L. If 757s were to be put on shuttle, they could use all 3 doors on the left side. Door 2 would get the jetway, and 1 and 3 would get stairs.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:47 pm

Actually, the galleys wouldn't need to be configured at all. The 757 has plenty of room (cart space) on it for 4-6 legs of pretzels/sodas (the standard for Shuttle galley packing). In addition, the video equipment wouldn't need to be removed (needless cost)...just throw an episode of Seinfeld or two at them...they already have free headsets...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
ILUV767
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:53 pm

You're right fly777ual.

 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 4:18 pm

About the video onboard Shuttle flights...that's already a cost-less upgrade right there...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
ILUV767
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RE: Should United Introduce 757s To Shuttle?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 4:57 pm

Its a very good idea to keep video on those flights, as long as some video is shown. I flew down to SNA and back on tuesday, and the only video was the safety video. For that 1 flight, they could easily shown an episode of Seinfeld (sp?) or Alley McBeal. Looking at water got a little boring.

By keeping the video and the galleys it allows you to move the planes on to mainline flights.

A 757 may then fly this routing:

SFO-LAX
LAX-SFO
SFO-DEN
DEN-SEA
SEA-LAX
LAX-SFO
SFO-LAX


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