amo757
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:41 am

Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:54 am

hi, what do u think of air india's liverie?
and what is the current situation with its sale?
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:04 am

Hello,

I think it's one of the most beautiful liveries in the sky. The detail put into each aircraft make it one of the most extravagent planes in the sky, espically around each window make it orginal and unique.

bLuJaay
 
akash
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2000 6:06 am

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:08 am

I love the livery!...the 'maharaja' type window/door details are beautiful. To bad the planes are washed at every 'C' check....Air India has a outstanding livery and should show it off that way! There have been other posts in the past regarding Air India's livery. Search for 'Why did AI not keep this livery?', the thread discusses why AI switched liveries in the past (due to bad marketing or something like that).

Regarding the disinvestment issue...I heard that SIA and AF/DL were the only plausable bids still on the table...has anybody heard since?

Akash
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:12 am

I think AI's livery is reasonably uninteresting. The airline adopted another livery a few years ago, but, as a result of protest, re-introduced the now-worn livery.

It's all about personal preference.
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:19 am

Hi Fellas,

Delighted to read something about AI on this forum. Indeed, the airline has one of the best liveries in the sky. I simply love it. However, I believe that now, it may be time for the airline to make the tail a little more attractive. The body however, should remain the same.

Regarding the divestment, I guess (knowing the Indian government), internal negotiations (or ghoos-handling, as it is known locally), must be going on. I believe in the end, the party that produces more ghoos, will win it. I really hope TATA-SIA get the deal. If this happens, AI will finally have a bright future!

Cheers!

-Gobind
 
akash
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:27 am

I agree...the tail needs to be updated with a new look...I also love the logo that is on the engines of the 744's. I don't know what it is called exactly. Maybe they could use that on the tail? Any suggestons?  


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Photo © Raj Changela



Akash
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
chepos
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:42 am

I think that Air Indias livery is great it shows the Indian identity very good they should change nothing.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:39 pm


The "Palace in the Sky" colors was orignially conceived in the 1960's as an extension to AI's 'Maharaja' mascot by the then AI mktg mgr(i forget his name) and JRD's right hand man. But it was not implemented on AI's all 707 fleet, and was introduced only with the arrival of the 747s, which also sported the new-look interiors, with paintings from the Khajuraho and Ajanta temples. The red stripe over the windows was replaced by giving each of the windows a Rajasthani look.

The colors are extremely popular here in India and a mere suggestion of changing it is sure to evoke a violent response! Having grown up with seeing AI in these colors, most Indians wouldnt like to see it go. When the Yogi Deveshwars of the world introduced the new red-gold and white "corporate" colors with "Sun" logo, it provoked an enormous backlash, and there were even arguments in Parliament! I must have read hundreds (ok mebbe not hundreds) of editorials criticizing the move. AI hurriedly switched back to the old colors again.

But since the current emphasis is on turning AI into a "world airline", on the lines of SQ, perhaps a survey needs to be conducted about how WESTERNERS in particular feel about the colors. I personally would'nt want the colors to be changed.

some of my favorite AI pics :


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Photo © Vincent Gury



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Photo © Vincent Gury



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Photo © Frank Schaefer



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Photo © Gary Watt



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Photo © Propfreak



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Photo © Brian Hill



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Photo © Chris Sheldon



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Photo © Joe Pries



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Photo © Danny C. Y. Chan



The "Corporate" Colors (Ugh!)

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Photo © Axel Juengerich



AI needs just 2 things in my opinion: a larger fleet and better on-time performance. During JRD's days, i hear AI's European flights were so well known for their on-time performance, that some Germans used to set their watches by the arrival of AI's flights (i read this in an old German tourist booklet). And today an AI flight arriving on time would be a miracle!

I believe the first (a larger fleet) is coming although in the form of more leased aircraft. I am hearing whispers that AI fleet will be "more than doubled" by the next schedule with the arrival of mainly A310's and a sprinkling of 747-400's and 747-300 Combis. Though "doubling" the fleet in such a short timeframe seems highly unlikely, given the Indian way of doing things, atleast 10 aircraft should surely join the operational fleet by March.

In addition, the 3 A300B4's operated by AI on its Domestic network have been sold to the domestic carrier IC (which already operates around 11 of these giants). This has been done as part of a fleet rationalisation strategy. Now AI will have only 2 types :747s(300/400) and A310-300s.

I think Indian Airlines (IC) needs new colors. Their livery is over 40 years old and clearly looks jaded. And the silly markings on the tail (its IA if u didnt get it) must be changed.

Regarding the disinvestment, the Tata/SQ alliance and the Hindujas have been shortlisted for BOTH AI and IC bids. The DL/AF combine has also been shortlisted for AI. The Dhoots are in the race for IC.

In my opinion, the Tata/SQ alliance will get AI while the Home Appliance majors, the Dhoots will walk away with IC.

 
akash
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 2:02 pm

Indianguy...could'nt agree with you more. I do, however, feel that Air India also needs to add some more destinations, which will likely come with an expansion of fleet. Namely, Canadian ones! Hopefully with the upcoming sale and furthur codeshare deals (i.e. United?, Virgin etc.) maybe we will see non-stop Air India service into YYZ (Toronto). Someone needs to step in and compete with Canada 3000, which has been awarded non-stop service between YYZ and DEL via the polar route to commence later next year.

Akash
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:28 pm

Guys guys guys.... get your facts straight!  

a) The "logo on the engines" is the Centaur and HAS been featured on the tail of the 707s if you remember that far back.

b) "Palace In The Sky" was introduced not in the 1960s, but in 1971 to coincide with the delivery of the first 747-237. Bobby Kooka did come up with the idea in the late 1960s, but it was ALWAYS planned to implement it with the 747s and never with the 707s (as is proved since the 707s never carried that scheme even though they ran for 15 years after it was conceived!).

c) Yogi Deveshwar had nothing to do with the "sun" livery. That was Rajan Jetley all the way.

d) During JRD's days, AI barely flew to Europe! Remember - AI was nationalized in the 1950s.  

e) AI's systemwide on-time performance is 90.4% for the first 11 months of 2000. That is superior to pretty much everyone.

f) The fleet is nowhere near being doubled. The fleet is actually going to expand by exactly ONE in the next 12 months. 3 A310-324s are coming in (one is already in service on the DEL-SIN run effective Dec.15 and the others are due in the near future) to replace the 3 A300B4s that are going to IC. A single 747-300 will be taken on lease in the summer schedule.

g) The fleet rationalization theory is all well and good, but AI is actually EXPANDING the types in the fleet. At present there are JT9D powered 747-200s (the newest one of which are only 18 years old and are not going anywhere for a while), the CF6 powered 747-300s, the PW4000 powered 747-400s, the CF6 powered A300B4s, the CF6 powered A310-300s and the new PW4000 powered A310-324s.

h) The Hindujas are NOT involved anymore in the AI bidding. That is a two horse race between Tata/SQ and DL/AF, with the former being the odds on favorite.

i) YYZ will not happen in the near (or even mid-term) future. The reason being that AI has insufficient LHR slots to support the operation, and BA/BAA (whats the difference anyway?!) have screwed them over vis-a-vis YYZ ops in the past.

j) Canada 3000 is not starting non-stop YYZ-DEL. The A330 they operate does not have the range, and lets not even begin to deal with ETOPS and payload issues. Their flights will run to India through LGW.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
IndianGuy
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RE: 747-437B

Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:48 pm


Well yeah,thats what i said: the "Palace in the Sky" colors were introduced with the 747's, but were concieved in the 60's. My source was JRD's autobiography.

The Centaur was there even on the Puss Moth that JRD flew from Bombay to Karachi in 1962 to commemorate AI's 30th anniversary, and my grandpa remembers seeing it on the Air India building when he first landed in Bombay, so it must be OLD!

JRD owned the airline thru Tata Sons till 1953, but he stayed on as CMD and default honcho even after it was nationalised, thanx to the Mrs.Gandhi connection. until 1977 i think? I think he was removed by the Morarji Desai gang.

And AI introduced the Paris, Geneva and Frankfurt runs then. AI definitely flew to GVA and FRA in the 60's thats for sure.

All three A300B4's have already been sold for 9 million $ to IC (economic times: Dec 9th).

Regarding the "doubling of the fleet", thats a report i read in a Financial paper, but i too have serious doubts about it. Such things dont happen here! Jet Airwyas mebbe. But Air India. no siree!

But arent atleast 4 A310's and 3 747-300's (if not more) joining the fleet? I believe the A310's deal has been finalised, and RFPs have been put out for the 747-300's. 2 A310's are being leased at $210000 pm and are around 11 years old.

The Hindujas are very much in the race. Again Economic Times (Dec 18, i think). They are bidding thru their truck company Ashok Leyland, btw. Very Surprising since they are vocal supporters of the opposition parties.

Meanwhile, the Dhoots are in trouble, after Cathay Pacific said that they had no formal understanding with the Dhoots over the IC deal. the dhoots are renowned in the home appliance industry, but have no experience in the airline industry. They had orig. claimed to have a technical support from Cathay.
:-(


Sean, do u have any info on the actual no. of aircraft to join the fleet, the source and new routes planned etc?


 
Gate Keeper
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:48 am

B747-437B you said: "get your facts straight!"

"j) Canada 3000 is not starting non-stop YYZ-DEL. The A330 they operate does not have the range, and lets not even begin to deal with ETOPS and payload issues. Their flights will run to India through LGW."

Do not be surprised to hear early in the new year a C3000 announcement of 340-300's via the polar route direct to Delhi and Bombay. You can say you heard it here first.
 
akash
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 5:28 am

On the Canada 3000 polar route issue...got my "facts straight" from here....

Canada -3000 to undo damage done by Air Canada
26th Nov 2000 18.13 IST - Indiaexpress.com

More than three years after Air Canada withdrew its direct flight services from India, another Canadian airline, Canada-3000, is now ready to introduce three weekly direct flights from October next year from India to Canada with a capacity of 1026 seats per week.

Canada-3000 airline president Mr. Angus Kinnear told UNI that the airline, in association with the Canadian Government, is working on developing a new polar route for civil airways that would reduce the current air journey time by more than half between South Asia Pacific and North America, Canada.

Mr. Kinnear said that the entire project is being funded by Canada since the Russian authorities have expressed their inability to share the financial burden in developing the new air route. ''Our airline would be the first one to take advantage of the shortest air route linking India, China with north America and Canada,'' he said.

Canada-3000 airlines limited would shortly open two offices—one each in Delhi and Mumbai-- in order to assess the business potential both in areas of tourism and trade between the two countries. Initially, the airlines will start one weekly direct non-stop flights each on New Delhi-Toronto, New Delhi-Vancouver and Mumbai-Toronto routes, which would later be expanded depending on the traffic volume on these sectors, he said.

Mr. Kinnear, who was in Delhi and Mumbai for the last four days to meet the civil aviation ministry officials and airport authorities, said that the Indian Government has awarded a scheduled service license to his airlines last month to provide airline services between the two nations.

Canadian Transport Minister Mr. David Collenette had pursued the matter with the Indian Government since there was no direct air-link between the two nations in the past two and half years following withdrawal of direct services by then license holder Air Canada which later went through the process of merger and restructuring.

The airlines, which would start booking travelers on Canada-3000 flights from May, or June next year, is expected to carry around 50,000 passengers in the very first year. There are half a million people of Indian origin reside in Canada and about 3,00,000 people travel on the Indian-Canadian route every year.

-UNI
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 7:24 am

Two things :

a) Direct != nonstop

b) The only finalized deals are for the 3 A310s. Of these 2 are from SQ and 1 from AIFS. The SQ aircraft have been re-registered as VT-EVE and VT-EVF and the former entered revenue service last Thursday with the operation of a SIN-DEL flight. VT-EVF will enter service in early January. The AIFS aircraft is a former Air Jamaica bird and is presently in D check. Of the A300s, VT-EHN is going to IC on Jan. 1 and the other two will go as the remaning A310s come into service. The 743 lease is still in the tender stage, so don't look for it before summer.

I have the cabin layout map in front of me and VT-EVE still has the old SQ layout of 2 zones of J class seats and the rest Y - so look for her to be deployed mainly on HKG and KIX runs with higher yield pax.

As I mentioned, the AI race is all over bar the shouting. The IPG are NOT pursuing legal action (this is from the mouth of an IPG honcho himself) and they accomplished their goal of raising the stakes for the other bidders.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
akash
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 8:08 am

B747-437B,

At the Air India site I have often seen bulletins for dry lease and wet lease aircrafts. I have always wondered the differences between them. Could u pls explain?

Thanx,
Akash
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
QFTJT
Posts: 254
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RE: Wet Lease/Dry Lease

Sat Dec 23, 2000 8:28 am

Akash

The difference between Wet, and Dry lease is , Wet lease is when the airline providing the aircraft, also provides crew and mabe ground staff. Dry lease's only provide the aircraft without crew.

Cheers

QFTJT
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 10:02 am

I agree with Akash....the centaur would look splendid on the Air India tail.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:16 pm

Akash - when did AI post a bulletin seeking wetlease of aircraft? AFAIK, the only deal they have had with that in recent years (since the Air Club and Caribjet fiascos) has been with Air Atlanta Icelandic for Hajj charters - none for scheduled ops. Everything else has been dry lease tenders all the way (for the 310s and the 743).

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:39 am

Quick addition here for the trivia minded :

VT-EVE is the former 9V-STS (msn. 501)
VT-EVF will be the former 9V-STR
The AIFS aircraft will be the former F-OIHS
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
akash
Posts: 26
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:03 am

Why did AI pull out of YYZ in the first place? I have heard that it was b/c they were not making enough money from the sector, however whenever I was at the airport seeing someone off or a family member off on one of those flight...good luck trying to find a place to stand let alone sit in the airport. Point being that the place was always rammed and i'm sure the flights were full to considering the demand in YYZ for that route. Please explain. Thanx

Akash
Next flight - YYZ-DEL Jul 29
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sun Dec 24, 2000 2:33 pm

The reason that AI pulled out of YYZ was that BAA yanked their slots for the service since it was eating into BA's dominance on the route. They were offering AI slots where the YYZ-LHR aircraft arrived at 0700 but could not depart till almost 1600. It was impossible for AI to continue the service with those slots. For a while AI experimented with a YYZ tag on to the JFK flight 3 times/week, but that was eating into the JFK loads. Other European gateways (notably FRA) had been tried with YYZ and YMX before, and had not been succesful. Eventually, AI just abandoned the idea of the YYZ flight and shifted their focus onto ORD. Ironically though, the SAME SLOTS that AI wanted for the YYZ service suddenly *became* available for ORD, since they would be competing with VS on the route and not only BA.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:41 pm

Classic BA tricks.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Sun Dec 24, 2000 6:38 pm

Once again, I stand corrected.

VT-EVE is NOT being deployed to HKG and KIX, but rather on DXB routes for now. I have a list of the flights she will be operating. I'm gonna try to non-rev on her BOM-DEL-BOM sometime next week just to see how she looks (and to keep my record alive of having flown on the entire fleet).
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 5:22 am

Akash,

That logo is called the "Centaur."

Cheers!
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 5:51 am

Yes, a re-vamped "centaur" on the tail of all AI jets will be beautiful.

I guess, such ideas are miles away from the management of the airline. It's a shame to see such a once prestigious airline in such trouble. I would not even want to shy away from saying that AI is probably the only (or one of the very few) MAJOR airline to cut back on its fleet and routes especially when India is enjoying it's best economic spell.

Those of you who don't know (not including B747-437B) will be surprised to know that AI has options to open services to a total of 5 US destinations. It is only using 2 (JFK and ORD) and that's ofcourse due to the limited number of aircrafts in the airline's fleet.

With such disturbances going on in AI, I sometimes wonder if adequate attention is being paid to the actual maintenance of the old "warhorse" jets. I would appreciate if someone can provide some comfort on this.

cheers!

-Gobind
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 6:10 am

Gobind -

You are correct about the 5 gateways that AI is allowed under the bilateral.

Presently these are designated as JFK, ORD, IAD, SFO and LAX.

Officially 4 of these 5 gateways are being served right now. JFK and ORD are served by AI themselves, LAX via codeshare with SQ and SFO via codeshare with OZ. There also used to be a codeshare with UA for IAD, but it has been discontinued since 1994.

AI was ready to begin BOM-SEL-SFO flights with 744s in the mid-90s, but the Asian financial crisis put those plans on hold indefinitely.

Essentially, AI cannot expand into the trans-atlantic market because of the lack of LHR slots. They have experimented with using FRA as a gateway with very little success, and as recently as August have considered CDG. Trans-pacific is probably the best option left, but AI doesn't believe that they can pull enough traffic from NRT/HKG/KIX/SEL (the likely gateways) for the flights to be viable. The alliance talks with TWA earlier this year focussed on this issue, but fizzled out due to AI pilots unwillingness to surrender some of the prime routes to TWA.

There are only 5 742s left in the fleet, all but one of which are between 18-20 years old. This compares favorably with the other 742 operators such as BA, NW, etc... The Airbus 300s will be gone to IC by March, the A310s range from 9-14 years old, the 743s are 12 and the 744s range from 4-7 years old. The 742s still have low cycles and their current utilization is well below capabilities. They are also going through a complete overhaul and having new interiors fitted (2 class layout for the Gulf sectors that they will be deployed on). I would not hesitate to fly on them, and will probably be doing just that to DEL sometime next week.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:31 pm

B747-437B,

I was wondering whether or not AI will once again continue code-sharing with UA on the "round the world" service from IAD-DEL (via LHR) once it starts in April. Thanks in advance,

bLuJaay
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 8:31 pm

Considering the current state of the AI/UA relationship (go back and read about how UA screwed AI TWICE at ORD in August and October over maintenance), I doubt it will EVER happen again.

Just as an FYI, the AI maintenance in ORD and JFK is now being carried out by NW of all people (effective Dec.1, 2000). I didn't realize that their Chicago operation was capable of handling 744s, but I was browsing through the maintenance logs for VT-EVA last week and came across a number of minor snags that BOM had deferred, but were signed off on by NW at ORD!!! This is an excellent deal for both sides IMHO, now that NW has the daily DEL and BOM flights since AI has probably the most experienced engine shops in Asia for both the JT9D and the CF6.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
mikephotos
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RE: Meaning Of "Direct"

Thu Dec 28, 2000 12:18 am

B747-437B writes:
"a) Direct != nonstop "

Acutally, that's incorrect.

Nonstop=Nonstop
Direct=1 or more stops without changing planes
Connection=1 or more stops with a change of planes

Michael
 
Guest

RE: Meaning Of "Direct"

Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:04 am

Mikephotos,

Direct flights can also have an aircraft change ("change of gauge"). Take UA flight 881 for example, which flies IAD-ORD-NRT-SEL. I have been on the first segment of this flight before, and was once on a 742, once on a DC-10, and once on a 752. However, none of the aircraft continue to Asia from ORD. The passengers have to switch aircraft in ORD, but it is still a DIRECT flight.
 
AerLingus
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:16 am

That would be so great to see SFO-DEL via SEL! An AI 744 at SFO would be nice to see.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
nycank
Posts: 232
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Gateways: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:31 am

How come AI does not consider AMS as a European gateway ? Instead of
experimenting with CDG and FRA ?
 
Guest

RE: Gateways: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Thu Dec 28, 2000 5:17 am

If AMS=Amsterdam then believe it or not, AI was a regular site at Schipol for years! In fact there used to be a flight from BOM-AMS-LHR. I had the opportunity to fly this route around 10 years ago. Was a brilliant night flight! (LHR-AMS-BOM)   The LHR-AMS sector was covered in 41 minutes because of tail winds. For some reason, this AI flight seems to stand out in my mind.

Long live AI!  

-Gobind.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Thu Dec 28, 2000 5:19 am

nycank -

I don't remember this myself, but my dad swears that he was operating AMS-JFK flights on the 707 back in the mid/late 1970s, and the flights were always empty.

AMS has always been a *blow hot - blow cold* destination for AI - usually the first European destination to be axed in times of strife and the last one back in times of plenty. As a result AI does not have the market share and brand recognition there that they did with CDG and FRA and to an even greater extent with FCO.

It truly broke my heart to see Rome dropped from the schedule (more so than even FRA) because of the fantastic AI staff there who had always been great standard bearers for the airline. The only reason why FCO never became a transatlantic gateway for AI was that it was stretching the operational capacity of the 742 for ops to ORD. If the last pair of 744s had come into service just 2 years earlier than they did, we would have seen them deployed on BOM-FCO-ORD, but alas it was never to be. FCO became an Airbus destination and it was all downhill from there.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
nycank
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:11 am

Sean:

The economics of long haul have been altered drastically in the past decade and a half. NWA/KLM are "reportedly" doing very good loads to India from
the US, the only negative I've heard about Schipol/AMS was about Transit visa
issues. LHR/FRA maybe did not require it.

FCO is getting de-emphasised in favor of MXP. Doesn't Alitalia from BOM-MXP ?
 
englandair
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:50 am

Wonderfull- for the main reason that it clearly reflects its home country.
Just look at the mistake BA made by making their a/c not lookn British!
 
amo757
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:56 am

i agree with englandair, the biggest mistake BA ever made was to loose the union jack from its liverie. The new designs are very nice and artistic and reflect the different destinations BA flies to but i thik the union jack looked a lot better.
maybe a paint scheme between the 2 ideas would have been better, a compromise between the 2. the old BA liverie did look quite dated and i think it needed a change butmaybe BA have gone 2 far.
Virgnin atlantic have made the most of the union jack on their planes and they look fantastic- richard branson is doing a great job!!!
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 12:45 pm

I'm not Indian, so I'll give you my outsider's view of the Air India Palace-in-the-sky look. Don't take offence.

It's the cheesiest livery I have ever seen. Bare metal bottom, white paint on top, with a big red window strip. Very '60s-ish. And even for 1970-standards, it was tacky. But those little palaces around each window are too much. Today, that livery is so cheesy it should be against international air law. The only thing to top it would be to add a few flying magic carpets on the fuselage, and a Hindu man playing a flute in front of a cobra, plastered on the tail.

It's almost a self-parody. If it is in good humor, then more power to my Indian friends. Humor is one thing lacking from airline liveries. But as a serious corporate image for a national airline, I have to say it would scare me away. Well, that and the ever-present threat of Sihk terrorism against Air India.

I won't tell you what I was doing, and with whom, but I remember well where I was on the night of June 22, 1985 simply because of what was happening over the Atlantic at the same moment. I can not see that livery on a 747 and not think of what happened 15 years ago. But that's my hangup. As for non-Indian others, I would say that Air India needs a totally modern design and a fresh start for the 21st century.

India is considered by the Western world to be a poor, third-world country, wrongly or rightly, with an in-efficient, backward, and hazardous public transportation system. Government-owned or private, a national airline is a nation's face to the world. So making associations between India, itself, and its airborne face to the world, through this ethnic-style livery, is unlikely to be a wise corporate strategy for attracting new international business in the 21st century.

But what do I know? I don't like the smell of curry, either.  

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:56 pm

Ok Hmmmm...

FYI: The Sikh issue is over and past. The terrorism in that state, sponsored from across the border has now been stamped out. Now the problem is with Kashmir, and again the terror is being sponsored by our friendly neighbour.

But let me assure you, that the security is A-One. It went thru a lot of upgradation after the bombing of 'Emperor Kanishka' and more recently after the hijack of another Airbus A300 of Indian Airlines. It is today as good, if not better than the security on other countries carriers facing a similar kind of threat like Israel.

Infact some of my friends now feel that security is a little too irritating. (One of German friends was pretty unnerved when his IC Airbus 320 was surrounded by gun wielding cops as soon as it landed at Khajuraho airport. He thought the craft had been hijacked!)

regarding your views on AI livery: well i dont really know what "cheesy" means.

But a carriers livery is supposed to stand out, which AI's definitely does. Secondly, it does represent the country's unique heritage like none other. Again, the BA livery is a case in point. I cant identify the airline's nationality from its livery. Perhaps this has been done to promote BA's global image. But n the bargain, it loses its national identity which i feel is very important for an airline.

Also the BA has chosen to put different liveries on the various aircraft in its fleet, which means that it does not have ONE brand identity. I feel every airline must have a distinct set of colors which pax can identify with.

The Transportation system in India is hardly "inefficient" or "backward".

AI represents the country whose name it carries in its name. U cant blame the airline for pre-concieved notions that some people may have about a country!

(I tell u what: Try Air India/Indian Airlines once. i am sure u won tbe dissapointed.)
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 6:39 am

Random thoughts:

An airline's livery has nothing to do with how its perceived if it has a deserved lousy reputation based on shoddy service, etc. AI's livery was cool, but it needs to be updated. Right now, it reminds me a bit of those cheap "curry in a hurry" bad indian restaurants along 6th St in Manhattan. The Jharokha window design's been appropriated by every cheesy store in Queens and its looking tired. Ye, it looked amazing in 1971, but it seems dated in 2000. I'm not suggesting bland western boring crap, but an effective use of ethnic designs in a modern way. Bombay and Delhi are full of hip corporate designers who can come up with something fantastic.

Anyways, that having been said, I flew Air India on a Bom-Del flight 10 days ago. The aircraft was a 747-300 flying on to Narita.
I had arrived in Bom 7 days before that on a NW DC-10, a particularly nasty flight on a cramped, ageing, but well-maintained and clean plane.

Comparisons are odious, but the AI flight was far superior to the NW flight. More legroom, better food, better service, etc etc etc. AI's inflight service has always been better than its western counterparts, but its groundhandling is wretched, and the less said about Sahar airport the better. In comparison, the return Jet Airways flight was smooth sailing from check-in to arrival.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 6:51 am

Jaysit - were you on AI 304 of the 31st? Any specific comments about crew etc? My dad is always trolling for info. Do you remember the Inflight Supervisors name?

Also, are you still in BOM? I'm here till Thursday.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:06 am

I would really like to see either a newly designed "Centaur" or the "Chakra" in the Indian flag on the tail. Either one would look brilliant.

Please suggest colors.

Cheers!

-Gobind.
 
amo757
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:41 am

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:32 am

i think air india needs a new livery ( can sum1 confirm how 2 spell it). it is definately dated and looks dire! the people af india (roughly 1 billion) have such crap style. well, at least the ones who cause massive distress when a change of liverie is inmplemented... the fact is, air india is a global airline, it is international, it should move on with the times, there are so many great airlines out there, Virgin has a beautiful liverie, e.t.c, air india has to change, soon!!! i think a complete revamp is required to bring the airline to modern standards, they are trying to improve the airline, and make it more competative and profitable, new aircraft are being take on, the new livery, or a new livery would help air india move on, and to show that they are trying to get to and around the top in terms of the best airline. a completely new image would do the airline good!
i dont know what is happening with the privatisation of air india, but i think SQ wud do a great job to improve the airline.

CEO of air india........ move on!!!!!! change with the times!!!!!!this is the new millenium, get a grip!!!

i know i got a little carried away and it may not make complete sense... but i think it is true, a new image for air india wud do it no harm, and would reflect the changes being made behind the scenes, like operation and management, e.t.c!!!
 
United Airline
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RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:17 pm

Quite classy.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Tue Jan 09, 2001 11:53 pm

I was on AI 304 on Dec 27, I think.
I promptly fell asleep on the flight thru the short meal service, but after I woke up the F/A brought me a meal, which was quite good. In any case, the flight was only 50% full (I assume they would pick up pax in Delhi for the NRT leg).

The crew were all quite good. I think I saw one rude jerk in the aft Zone, but he was the exception rather than the rule. In general, on all my flights thru India on AI, Alliance Air, Indian Airlines and Jet Airways, I never experienced a rude or brusque crew member. AI's ground staff at Sahar were awful, although nowhere as dreadful as those at NW. In general, the check-in/security/emigration procedures at Indian airports is a nasty experience. Can't wait for the IAAI to be privatized or sold or just burned to the ground.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
amo757
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:41 am

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 7:48 am

hey, any1 got any news on whats going on with air india? theyre taking there time!!!
anyone got any general news on air india?
thanx amo757
fly air india..... palace in the skies!!!!!!!
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Air Indias Current Liverie? Your Views?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 12:55 pm

Amo757 - This is copied from what I posted on another thread.

AI has been in a bit of a mess the last few days due to w/x at DEL and multiple 747s going down with snags (2 at JFK and 1 at CDG). Things are beginning to limp back to normal operationally. Fog at DEL is still delaying morning departures there upto 14 hrs.

The leased A310 VT-EVE is now pretty much totally incorporated into the schedule. This week it will be operating AI 729 of Mon (DXB/TRV/DEL), AI 757 of Tue (DXB/CCJ), reserve aircraft on Wed, AI 696 of Thu (TRV), AI 887 (CCJ/AUH) and AI 845 (DXB/DEL) of Fri, AI 847 of Sat (DEL/AUH) and AI 649 (AMD) and AI 725 (DXB/TRV) of Sun. All A310 commanders have been qualified on the PW4000 engines, all but a handful of F/Os and over 50% of the cabin crew. No concrete timetable yet for the introduction of VT-EVF, or for the transfer of VT-EHN, VT-EHO and VT-EHQ to IC, despite rumors.

Nothing new on other fronts.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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