United Airline
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The Future Of The B 767-400

Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:04 pm

Based on the success of the B 767-300 ER as well as the B 777, I do see tremendous success of this new product, B 767-400. Airliners might want it to fill the gap between the B 767-300 and the B777-200. They can also be used to replace the oldest B 767-200.

I myself like this plane far more than the A 330. And I also like the B 767. I think UAL would go for some in the future to replace US Air's A 330 or as a supplement of these A 330s.

How about you guys?

All idea are welcome!  
 
Guest

RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:32 pm

Where are the orders ? How many ???

Delta, Continental have some and then ?

Show me the orders...

E.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Fri Dec 22, 2000 6:35 pm

I do see success ahead in the future. Just like the B 757. It started off with a few orders and it took off like a rocket.

Give it some time man!  
 
steman
Posts: 1400
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Fri Dec 22, 2000 7:10 pm

Ok,
the B767-400 is a good plane but to achieve the success of the A330 and the 767-300 it needs more range.
Indeed Boeing is developing a longer range variant (the B767-400LR?) so I am sure it will have the success it deserves.

Airlines such Alitalia, who is building a long range fleet composed by two types (767/777) may order it to fill the gap between the 767-200/300 and the 777.
Anyway, I think it will gain most of the orders by the American Majors while the A330 is already well sold in the rest of the world.

Ciao

Stefano
 
BH346
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:52 am

I hope it becomes a success, its a really nice plane. Do you think Japanese airlines(With their many 767s) might get the 767-400?

Best Regards,
BH346  
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
CX747
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:57 am

I believe that besides Delta and Continental, that Kenya Airways has ordered a member of the 767-400 family albeit the 767-400ERX. The A330-200 has indeed gotten out of the gate faster, but after a fast start has slowed down with no recent orders. I believe in the future that much like the 757-200, the 767-400ER and ERX will catch on with American and United. I won't put any money on it, but Air Canada is a very large 767-200/200ER/300ER operator and bringing on the 767-400 wouldn't be as tough as it seems. The range issue wouldn't matter as much as the aircraft are flown domestically. I understand that the A330-300 is in the fleet, but I would hope that the airline would order the best aircraft for the particular job.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:00 am

Yes, it is off to a slow start..of a great future. It fills a gap nicely, and Boeing will come out with a LR model.

I am mystified why it was not considered by NW as a replacement for the DC-10-40's. (perhaps in a mix of 753/764's).
As I have stated before, I think AA and perhaps UA will order some for the fleets as the early 762's come up for retirement in 5-6 yrs. The 763 can be moved into those slots, 764's for traffic growth. Others will follow, my prediction is an eventual production run of about 250 examples. Not bad for a low cost stretch of the 763. Should be PROFITABLE for Boeing. The bottom line counts!

 
DeltaSFO
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:08 am

The 767-400 is going to do just fine. We love the 767 at Delta, and there's no reason not to love the -400. It fills the 763/772 gap perfectly, and has a perfect niche within the Delta system, doing the high-density domestic runs and Hawaii trips.

Part of the problem is that you people expect a new aircraft to sell like the 777 did. Remember that the 777 is an extraordinary aircraft that is revolutionizing air travel. The 767-400 is a stretch of an existing design that is designed to fill a much smaller gap in Boeing's product line than the one that existed between the 767 and 747. The 767-400 probably will not sell more than two or three hundred airframes. But just because Boeing doesn't sell 1200 doesn't mean it's a failure. It will be very profitable for both manufacturer and operator, and has already become very popular with passengers, with its 777 style interior.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
raggi
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:33 am

AA is reportedly interested in the 764ERX, from what I`ve read.
Stick & Rudder
 
eg777er
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:50 am

763 - 772 - What gap????!?

BA config for the 763 is 193.
BA confg for the 772 is 232.

What is the point in introducing a new type for filling a 'gap' of 39 seats?

It's a great aircraft - but what's the point?
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:58 am

The difference is in ability to make a profit per seat mile.
 
ILUV767
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:03 am

At United there is a gap:

For International:
763-203 seats
772-278 seats
BIG GAP...huh?


I think that UAwill have two configuartaions on the 764ERX not 764ER.

I think that they will have a model with an exteneded first/business class section.

First would have 20 seats
Business would have 80 seats
And what ever room is left over would be economy.

In this config. you can replace older 762s on teh transcons where first/business classes are full.

You can run it on the trip where you need more premium seats, for international. An example would be: SEA-NRT.There could be two flights a day, one in a 764, and one in a 777.

The second one would seat about 245 pax, with 15 first class seats, 40 business class seats, and the rest seating economy.,

happy flying,
David
 
Udo
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:05 am

A330 orders slowed down? So what would you call the non-existence of more B764 orders in the last time?

By the way, the A330 orders haven't slowed down, just as Qantas 13 A330s show. And just wait some more days or weeks, NW and SIA will possibly announce more A330 orders...

The B764 will fill a gap which most airlines don't have. It may work in the US with AA and UA as possible future customers. But I don't expect it to become a hotseller outside the US.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:22 am

ILUV767,


Absolutely true!  


Regards
Des
 
raggi
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:39 am

Alitalia,LOT and perhaps KLM will likely announce orders for the 764 shortly. I`m not so sure about what you say about NW and SIA ordering the 330 though, Udo
Stick & Rudder
 
Guest

RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:53 am

767 200 4 ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
WorldTraveller
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 5:37 am

DeltaSFO, please why is the B777 revolutionizing air travel?

It's a great plane, but where does it revolutionize?

Best regards,
the WorldTraveller
 
CX747
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 6:03 am

I think the main thing that we need to remember is that the 767-400ER is the FIRST of a family. The 767-300/300ER production will begin to slow down when the 767-400ERX comes online. As for the Qantas order, I believe it was for 6 A330-200s. Hardly setting the production line on fire.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 10:12 am

Some speculation that TWA will order some 767-400s for transcon, middle east, Hawaii, and Carribean.

The 767-400LR is in fact the 767-400ERX and its first customer is Kenya Airways to replace the A310. Love to see SQ pick up 767-400 to replace A310 and LH buy 757-300.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:46 pm

I personally think that both AA and UA will eventually order the 767-400ER within the next two years. The AA and UA 764ER's will be primarily used for USA transcon flights and also flights to Hawaii. The 764ER will be the likely plane that HA will buy when they phase out their DC-10-30's 4-5 years from now.
 
modesto2
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:54 pm

WorldTraveller, the 777 has become a pivotal aircraft for numerous reasons. You can't overlook 207 minute ETOPS, a certification that no other aircraft (I think) has attained. It has a great range and payload capabilities. For the passenger, the interior utilizes high ceilings and curved architecture to create a sense of space. Additionally, there are "passenger friendly" features such as power assist overhead bins and toilet seat covers. There's a reason why the 777 is such a hot seller...it's just what the doctor ordered!
 
ILUV767
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:17 pm

I think that we can all agree that the 767-400ERX will be the real hot seller, not the 767-400. Why? More range, thus the plane is very versitle.
 
ap305
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RE: The Future Of The B 767-400

Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:27 pm

The 767-400 on paper and in the real world is an superb all-purpose aircraft.It has one large advantage over the a330-200 and that is it's relativley low weight.It has the ability to perform economicaly on
shorter range rgional type operations.But unfortunatley(for the 764)the trend these days among airlines is to look for the maximum possible opretaing range even if it means paying a few extra dollars in landing fees and other weight related costs.The a330-200 has proven to be a remarkable aircraft in its two and a half years of service.If airbus does increase it's mtow to 240t(as rumoured)we could be looking at an airplane with around 13000+km of range.Unless boeing really produces the goods(in terms of range)with future versions of the 764 there is no way that the a330-200 is going to lose it's hold on the 250 seat market

ap305