zrs70
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Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 12:47 pm

What US cities should have, yet don't have, international service. I'm not asking about international airports (airports with us customs facilities, but no international flights). I mean airports in large/ mid-sized cities that might benefit from non-stop transatlantic/ pacific service.

My list:

BDL
SLC
CMH
IND
MCI
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chepos
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 12:57 pm

Salt Lake City
New Orleans
Millwaukee(extremely underserved)
Indianapolis
Kansas City
Hartford
Providence
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BH346
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 12:58 pm

Kansas City has an Air Canada CRJ flight to Toronto.

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BH346  
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DSMav8r
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 1:40 pm

SLC would be the only one that could support true international service. That is only because they have a DL gateway. Cities like BDL and PVD are too close to other cities with Intl service (BOS and JFK), same with MKE (ORD).

A city like CMH would be my choice...

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zrs70
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:01 pm

DSMav8r...

Though BDL and PVD are close to BOS,...

SAN is close to LAX
BWI is close to IAD

etc.

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flyCMH
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:04 pm

Regarding Columbus...

Do I think the city is ready for transatlantic service now? No

Do I think the city will be ready in about 5 years? Yes

The need for international service of this caliber is not quite needed yet in Columbus, but as the city continues on its rapid rate of growth, I'm sure the issue will become more prevalent. The city is still embarking on a number of infrastructure improvements. Though many undertakings have recently been completed, such as the Nationwide Arena, the new Center of Science and Industry (COSI) Museum and the expansion of the Greater Columbus Convention Center, Columbus should definitely be ready for transatlantic service by 2005-2006. By then, other city improvements currently under construction and under proposal will be completed or nearing completion. Currently, a major problem is that many people do not know what the city has to offer. Unlike nearby cities such as Cleveland and Cincinnati, Columbus doesn't really have a reputation. However, with numerous events in Columbus gaining nation, and even worldwide attention, hopefully that will change.
If or when Columbus does receive transatlantic service, it would most likely be with an international carrier. Most US airlines fly transatlantic flights from their hubs, so it would be awkward to have an airline such as Northwest or TWA start overseas flights from CMH. America West will definitely not be expanding to Europe any time soon, and if they did, it would not be from Columbus. Also, it would probably be to either London, Paris, or Frankfurt, since there would not be sufficient demand for most other major European markets. The port authority actually met with British Airways and Lufthansa concerning starting nonstop service to Columbus a few years back. I do not know what were the results of the talks, but nothing has happened yet. If an airline were to start service from Europe to Columbus, two or three nonstops weekly with an aircraft such as the 767 would proabably be sufficient.
As a citizen of Columbus, I would definitely like to see nonstop transatlantic service to Europe, but everything lies in the moneymaking potential of such an endeavor.
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:11 pm

SAN and BWI are also MUCH larger cities than PVD or BDL.  

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CactusA319
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:24 pm


I think JAX would be a good candidate. They flirted with BA for service to London but lost out. Air Transat ran charter services to YYZ a couple of years back but pulled out too. It is a growing city and has some tourism appeal to it also.

IND has international service in the form of ATA flights to CUN.

Doesn't MSY have flights to Mexico too? Maybe one of the N.O. boyz can enlighten us.

How about BNA? RDU?

For the city-code illiterate:

JAX=Jacksonville,FL
YYZ=Toronto, Canada
IND=Indianaopilis, IN
CUN=Cancun, Mexico
MSY= New Orleans, LA
BNA=Nashville, TN
RDU= Raleigh-Durham, NC
 
watewate
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 3:05 pm

RDU has Air Canada operating CRJ non-stop.
 
Big777jet
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 4:06 pm

RDU=AA has service daily B767 to LGW.

Delta should serve city out of Salt Lake City. SLC to LGW,CDG and FRA.

Big777jet



 
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 4:09 pm

West Palm Beach, & Fort Lauderdale are close to Miami International.... Jacksonville and Tampa are close to Atlanta.... all 4 needs international service....


All 4 needs Int'l. Svcs...

PBI
JAX
FLL
TPA



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CactusA319
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 4:19 pm


TPA has int'l service by AC, BA, and Condor.
FLL gets SAA, Air Aruba (used to anyway) I'm sure they get AC, they get Air Transat, and I think Air Jamaica.

Also JAX and TPA aren't really that close to ATL. JAX is at least a 5 hour drive.

 
watewate
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 4:25 pm

FLL indeed has many flights from Canada with Air Canada and other charter lines. I go to FLL when I need to fly to MIA- it's much cheaper with those fine charter airlines flying there from Canada. Personally, I think RDU can use a few to European high-tech centres.
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Tue Dec 26, 2000 5:03 pm

I agree with Bassim, FLL could definately support widescale trans-Atlantic services. Presently, FLL's Terminal Four is the designated interntational terminal and South African Airways, Finnair, Air Transat, Canada 3000, Royal, Air Canada, Bahamasair, and Air Jamaica serve it. American Eagle, and Gulfstream International both also serve The Bahamas. Because FLL is 30-40 mins away from nearly 2 million people (Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties), FLL is certainly capable of being a widescale spill-over airport from MIA. In fact for domestic flights it is and has developed itself into a strong destination for low cost airlines: Metrojet, Delta Express, Southwest, JetBlue, Spirit, Airtran, ATA, and Midway. So I believe FLL could easily support daily service to London, Paris, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt. Really any airline that serves MIA should also consider FLL, and market to the entire Southeast Florida populace. So my vote goes to FLL.

As for BDL , I would like to see TWA start 2x daily service to their SJU focus city before any trans-Atlantic service is begun.

CMH is a tough call...would agree that its porbably 5-8 years ahead of its time.

SLC is a good idea though, at least nonstop to London and CDG (DL/AF codeshare).

STL as I've said before needs stronger trans-Atlantic service, to compliment daily LGW and CDG. Would like to see FRA started, NRT in a year and a half, perhaps AMS, and even TLV to capture the Israel market in the western portion of the country.

Can not see PVD with trans-Atlantic service for a long long time.

I have a feeling British Airways and Lufthansa won't be the only two European carriers to visit PHX . Same goes with Denver...
 
Guest

RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:53 am

I think you guys missed one of the most obvious selections. Austin-San Antonio intl services. Between these two cities, which are about 80 mi. apart, are nearly 2.75 million people.

-AUS has "brand new" intl airport with 10,000' runways
-AUS is a tech mecca
-San Antonio is a top American destination for many tourists, military personnel and convention goers.
-SAT is the final assembly point/delivery center for Donier/Fairchild 328 JET (and soon, others)
-SAT was Boeing's selection for an DC10 to MD10 conversion facility at Kelly AFB

That said, SAT has 10 daily flights to Mexico with more planned.
AUS lost Air Canada service recently (although a routing of YYZ-AUS-SAT-YYZ might have made the difference.)

Proximity to DFW and IAH, and their generous services to Europe and Asia, will preclude any real intl expansion at AUS/SAT for the next 4-5 years.
 
LHMark
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:09 am

BUF. YYZ is 4 hours away, EWR is 7 hours away, PIT is about 4.5 hrs away. There are about 2 million western New Yorkers, and more SE Ontario residents. I think it could warrant a route or two.

Problem is, industry in WNY sucks, and the tourist market won't buoy this type of route by itself.
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Guest

RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:13 am

Mark, spend 60 bucks get down to JFK.....the options are endless!
 
LHMark
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:15 am

TWA- $49 if you plan two weeks in advance. it's about time  
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B747-437B
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 6:22 am

Dude - 4 hrs from BUF to YYZ? I drive the route at least 4-5 times each year and its NEVER taken me longer than 2 hrs (and that is with traffic on the DVP).
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LHMark
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 6:42 am

Sorry, B747. I gave a conservative estimate for drive time from Rochester. Small perspective problem on my part.
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Falcon Flyer
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 7:25 am

Laker's Gatwick flights to FLL were not able to sustain themselves with just thrice weekly service. Others who have attempted FLL but withdrew include Martinair and Hapag Lloyd. Condor seems to do well with the Saturday FRA flights but also had a short lived CGN-FLL which ultimately ceased. If I'm not mistaken, Lauda Italy also had a short lived MXP-FLL a few years back. Britannia announced service to PBI sometime ago but withdrew shortly before startup. If there was the potential of a market, don't you think Delta, American or even BA would start service ?
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sn330
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 8:39 am

Hartford is a covenient, and uncrowded, alternative to Boston and JFK.
As for SLC, I really doubt that. With only 500,000 residents within reasonable driving distances, high tax rates, and not that much major buisness activity, it just doesn't seem like a logical choice for an international carrier. It would just be cheaper for them to fly into a hub city, and then codeshare into SLC.
AC did screw up the Austin service. Rather than flying from YYZ, they should have flown from Ottawa. Austin is considered by many to be the Silicon Valley of the South, and Ottawa is the Silicon Valley of Canada. Depending on how the newly announced YOW-SJC route, AC should look into this. A YYZ-AUS-SAT-YYZ route would definitely been better than just YYZ-AUS.
 
Guest

RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:07 pm

These "tech center" to "tech center" routes aren't all they are proported to be. Although Austin-San Jose runs 3 757s a day, an Austin-Boston route was a big disappointment for AA back in 98-99.

Ottawa-Austin seems a little odd. Heck, there aren't any DFW-Ottawa flights.
 
jderden777
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:37 pm

i will go for SAT..but i doubt they can accomodate an international carrier unless that new runway is built...the longest current runway is only 8502ft long...i don't think that this is long enough for transatlantic service. it would be nice to see a BA 763 at SAT next time i go down there...by the way is there anyone who has been to SAT lately? or ex-kelly AFB where boeing is doing those conversions? be cool to go there for a day of shooting..if there's anything there now

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WorldVoyager
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 4:15 pm

I don't know about the U.S. but here in Canada, Ottawa (YOW) is definetly on the list. Right now, the city (where I live) is going through a high-tech boom - Nortel, Newbridge, JDS Uniphase, Corel are all either based here or have some of their largest campuses here. Ottawa is currently the fastest growing city in Canada (along with Montreal, I think). We have the lowest vacancy rate in the nation as well. Most travellers through YOW are business travelers (high tech, government affairs, etc.), and most are sick and tired of connecting their asses off through Toronto, Montreal, or a US hub. Although strong nationwide, our air links with the US and the world are very weak. At least we have a daily flight to London Heathrow!

Don't get me wrong: Personally, I despise the city. (As I write this, the temperature outside is -20 degrees celsius without factoring the wind chill - NOT FUN)
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 10:07 pm

Hartford has international service to Toronto and Montreal. Trans-Atlantic would work once new terminal is ready -- the corporate community could easily support a flight to a major European hub.
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flashmeister
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RE: Which US Cities Need International Service?

Wed Dec 27, 2000 10:13 pm

It's not ex-Kelly AFB for a while, at least until April... and even then, the airfield is being transferred to Lackland AFB technically. Boeing and Lockheed Martin will have their huge facilities that they will own, but the airfield itself will technically still be DoD.

I didn't realize that SAT was the delivery point for Dornier/Fairchild... I'll have to check that out more.
 
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Sn330

Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:27 am

Actually, the number of residents within a reasonable driving distance of SLC is closer to 1.7 million. A daily flight to LGW should be able to do fine. Where did you get 500,000 from? Salt Lake county alone has roughly 900,000 residents.
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