exitrowaisle
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 2:32 am

Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:21 am

I notice a lot of people who post messages here are airline employees (or even more common, kids of airline employees), and fly on passes in first class all the time. Does that sound fair? If there's extra space in first class, why don't airlines bump up more frequent flyers instead of giving it away to their own employees and their families? It strikes me as being callous and non-customer oriented. What do you think?

P.S. Don't take this as a personal knock on those who get to do it, mind you.
 
RedEye
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:43 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:37 am

Along the same lines, I find it very interesting that airlines will not upgrade frequent flyers for long-haul international flights, only for domestic. Revenue passengers do have priority, but ONLY for domestic flights. Since non-rev employee/partner passengers fly first on a space-available basis, what ends up happening is that non-revs don't get upgraded on domestic legs, but end up flying first on international trips. Therefore non-revs are getting a much better deal than frequent-flyer revenue passengers, since an international first class seat can be worth thousands $$ more than a domestic one. I'm surprised that airlines don't even offer to upgrade revenue passengers AFTER the non-revs on international flights.

I'm definitely not begrudging the chance for employees to sit up front, I just don't understand why frequent flyers don't get the same opportunity on international flights.
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:42 am

Employees should know what they are serving. Flying non-rev first class is a good way of learning the product their frequent flyers are buying.
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:45 am

Well SR employees cannot fly in first anymore (since 97 or 98) They are allowed in Business Class but it is not free. It is a percentage of the fare or an ID00 which is all airport taxes + catering costs.

SIA do not offer any upgrades to any employees no matter what. Not even to Raffles Class.

If a CX, LH, etc.. employee is upgraded to F, they are not allowed to take the comfort pack or night suit.

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:49 am

Watewate,

What???? That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. That is called training. As stated by Teshan, it is specific to the airlines. Frankly I think it is a perk of the job. If you give frequent fliers upgrades on long haul flights, then why should they sell first class since for a coach fare they will get an upgrade? That has already happened in domestic US.
 
SQA340
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:49 am

Hello,

My Dad works for UA in management and I get the benifits too.

It is not like we get first all of the time you know, we get put in coach too. We have to dress up to get listed for first. Imagine having to sit in coach all dressed up because first and Bus. was full. It is not really that fun.

Senority counts as a big thing for seat placement. If one is loyal to an airline for a long time, they have don e some hard work to stay with the company.

But dont worry, Economy Plus on united is for frequent flyer benfits, so they get reconized too.

I would like to say if I have accenditally bragged about beeing in First on the fourms that I am sorry. I never mean to downgrade or belittle people .

**Kids loose their benifits by age 23**


Rgds,

Mike (SQA340)
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:56 am

Re:Wpr8e
I have never been through F/A training course, but doesn't it make sense for the airline to give employees incentives for working their jobs? Flying non-rev first is one of the few perks that come with the job that's not paid well. And yes, I do believe that employees can learn from experiencing first class once in a while. It's always good to put yourself in other shoes- in this case, the frequent flyers' shoes. You learn (or relearn) to appreciate the incredible amount of effort that go into putting forward such a product, which you can keep in your mind when serving customers.
 
awaramper
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 1999 3:49 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:04 am

It's fair if there is room in 1st class. I don't think it would be right if non-revs were getting priority over revenue passengers. I fly a lot and very seldom do I get 1st class. But when I do it sure beats having to eat peanuts or whatever is in the "snack-sack"!!!!!
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:17 am

Watewate,

Too bad that the pax manifest tells the F/A who the nonrevs are. I wouldn't say that they will get the same service. I agree with you that you should give employees first if available. But let's not make more of it than it is.
 
mdsmith11
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 12:12 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:28 am

My two cents worth:

Yes, while us employees do get upgraded to First class occasionally, it only will happen AFTER if the plane were to push away from the gate with the First seats on-occupied. For example, if there are two first class seats available for a given trip, and there is myself, and two FF's wishing to upgrade. I can bet my paycheck that I'm gonna end up sitting in the back, but at least I'm inside the plane (and hopefully with a window seat) and not inside the terminal watching the plane push back without me.

Non-Revenue travel is space available and that means just that. Suppose that here in New Orleans both us (UAL) and American have departures to Chicago O'Hare at similiar times. If our flight is late/cancelled, then we're gonna give those pax to American Airlines, assuming that they have some empty seats. For Non-Rev's....sorry. If there is no more seats, then your're simply not going.

I travel very frequently and generally have have good luck. 21 out of my last 24 trips have been in first. And I have only gotten left behind at the gate once. With a lil pre-planning and always having a plan "B" "C" & "D"...etc you can usually get whereever it is that you need to go, but do be prepared in case it all starts to go wrong.

Mark from UAL @ MSY (Where it's foggy with MSY taking delays)
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 10:53 am

I fly non-rev all of the time, and first of all this topic seems like the complaint center for the non "non-revers".

At almost any job that anyone works at there are perks. If you flip burgers at Burger King, you get all of the free fries that you want. This is no different for flying non-revenue. My dad works hard putting planes back out into service for United. We should be able to fly for free when we want...right? Well we do.

There are some rules to non-reving. First and foremost...THE PAYING PASSENGER ALWAYS HAS PRIORITY, OVER YOU...NO MATTER WHAT, AND UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY HAVE PRIORITY OVER YOU.

Next thing, First class is not all that special. If you people that are paying pax, want to sit in first class...THEN BUY A TICKET, TO SIT IN FIRST! Or pay to upgrade!

Next thing, you must dress up to fly in first or business. When I fly, I tend to look a bit like a flight attendant.

Next thing, at the airport, you get a departure managment card, which confirms that you are listed. After all of the upgardes, and all of the paying pax has checked in and boarded, then the employee or family member of the employee with the highest seniority date gets called to the podium with his/her boarding pass. If there is an open seat that person gets the seat. They arnt making money on it anyway, so it dosnt matter. That seat would go out empty if that person wasnt sitting there.

Following them are the next highest senior people. And so on. On december 19th, I took a "joy ride" from SFO to SNA and back. I got seat 5A on my way down, but the paying pax, who was confirmed in that seat, bumped me, and I sat back in coach. So its not all that glorious.

On my way back, I got first again, when only 12 seats were taken, they boarded the 4 people that wanted to upgrade, and gave all of the non-revers first class.

This is a perk for airline employees, and if you dont like it, then get a job at the airlines.
 
exitrowaisle
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 2:32 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:06 am

Good points. My additional 2 cents (which makes it 4 total so far!)

- I can't see there EVER being a reason for First to have space for non-revs! There are always enough frequent flyers who would love a chance to be upgraded, especially as a surprise! I was denied a PRE-RESERVED upgrade to Business a few months ago, and when I walked through the cabin to my Coach seat, there was ONE occupied seat in Business on a 767, and I'm a Platinum! What, not enough Champagne in the galley?  

- Of course it doesn't hurt to have airline employees see the product they're offering, but why families? To me, the only persons this would apply to would be airline executives and flight attendants!

- To Mike in MSY-upgraded 21 out of 24 flights?! No disrespect, but I'll bet someone paying full fare in the back would've loved the chance to feel like the airline appreciated their business by moving them up! "Economy Plus" doesn't quite make the grade!

- As far as "perks," isn't almost-free travel anywhere in the world a big enough perk, even if you ARE in coach?

My recommendations:
- Limit the number of upgrades available to employees to only a few a year.
- Make employees pay a substantial percentage of the difference in fares between coach and first.

I know this sounds like sour grapes to those who work for airlines and feel they deserve something back! I just wonder why people who pay thousands of dollars a year to an airline for "elite" status have to give their right arm for an upgrade, and are often denied, while the employees can take their families on numerous first-class vacations a year by wearing a tie!

OK, I'll get off my soapbox for now!
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:18 am

If you want to sit upfront, then buy a ticket. Its that simple. The airline gets nowhere when they habd out free upgrades just because the seats are open. The next time that the person is going to fly on that carrier, 99% chance that they will buy a coach seat.

FYI: At United you do have to pay for International First. Also, whats the big deal? If the seats are open they might as well give it to the s/a travelers becasue the pther pax are boarded.

You guys can bitch about having airline employees in first all you want, but it aint going to chance anything.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:21 am

A few other points.

At United, we are not upgraded like many of you think. We are down graded! We list for first, get oused into business, and finally rideit out in coach.

Next question:
-Isnt it a little unfair to upgrade an economy person to first just because therre are open seats up there. Unless they specifcly request it, why should they be upgraded? Wouldn't that piss off the other 150 people who didnt get the upgrade? Just wondering.
 
exitrowaisle
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 2:32 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 12:00 pm

OK, ILUV767, glad to see this is sparking such a cool debate! What say you and I step outside and settle this man-to-man (just kidding!)  

Seriously, though, do you think this is an attitude a future flight attendant (according to your profile and FBI file) should have? "You guys can bitch about having airline employees in first all you want, but it aint going to change anything." That's why there are websites like untied.com and northworst.org! I'm not advocating something-for-nothing! But, the traveler who logs thousands of miles with an airline is just as important to that company as its employees! We are doing the airline a favor, not the other way around. My opinion is, the airline should fill its premium cabins with its most loyal customers, or people who can and are willing to pay the huge fare difference. Frequent flyer status is in the computer. Even after boarding, the flight attendant could very discreetly (not on the PA) invite the people with the most miles to come up front, presumably from "Economy Plus". Wouldn't that make people want to fly the airline MORE to gain enough miles for the privelege? More business for the airline, more job security for the employees! And to use your argument, if you want to sit up front, why don't YOU buy a ticket (or at least part of one)?!

By the way, if you do become a flight attendant, I'm going to get an upgrade on United and say "remember me?"   By the way, Happy New Year!
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 12:12 pm

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I can tell you that the people with high status at UA usually get upgraded, and they are upgraded before any UA employees or any non-revers are placed in first. Now, if I'm aboard the plane in first, and you show up 10 minutes before the flight and want to upgrade, you cant bump the s/a. You should have come to the gate early.

My point is, is that people get there upgrades, and when a seat is open, it goes to an employee. Why not give it to an employee? The only other time that an open seat would not be given to an employee if its open, if economy is ovesold, and they can move the oversold y class pax into first, then they will do that, then leaving the pax behind.


Also, why shouldnt employees and their familys get first if its open?

Anyway, I wish you a happy new year, and thank you for flying with today on the friendly skies!

-David
 
Purdue Arrow
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 1:16 pm

Like several others on this forum, I enjoy the privelege of non-revenue travel on American Airlines. American allows non-revs to travel in any class of service available, but upgrades at American are not free. If I want to leave coach, I'm required to pay an upgrade fee that varies from route to route. The only exception to this is if coach is full - if they can't accommadate a non-rev who requested coach, then they will comp the upgrade. Why, then, should they upgrade a normal passenger for nothing, when they can get a little more income on the flight by upgrading a non-rev? Travel is one of the perks of airline employment, and a certain amount of premium travel is to be expected. Some non-rev travellers log just as many miles as an elite frequent flier - I'd be AAdvantage Platinum of we earned miles - we appreciate a nicer seat every now and again, too.
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 1:55 pm

If there are 30 frequent fliers in coach and 4 empty first class seats, how the hell would the Customer Service people decide which of those 4 frequent fliers are gonna be the lucky ones to get upgraded? -Should it go by how many miles each one logged thus far? -Should it go by the price they paid for that particular flight? -Should it go by how old the old farts are? -Should it go by who has the prettiest tie? ...Whatever random upgrade criteria you go by, you'd piss off all the other 26 FFs who won't think it's fair that *they* didn't get upgraded.

Also, I have several friends who work at UA and according to them, United ALWAYS upgrades their 100Ks and Premiers. I think it's kool for employees to be able to sit in FC every now and then. Afterall, the pay sucks. Plus, you couldn't pay me enough to deal with the hordes of abusive 40-50 year old spoiled brats who cry about everything imaginable on their flight from San Francisco to Chicago. I know I'd be fired after the first week. (If not in jail).
 
jfidler
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 1:59 pm

I've always looked at it from a cost side. And from that angle, it seems as if FFs should be upgraded before non-revs.

The difference between first class and coach are in 3 areas: space, service (people), meals.

Two of those have little effect on cost, in that they're "sunk" costs. The seat (space) is there on the plane, and the # of flight attendants for that section has already been allocated, regardless of # of passengers in F-class.

But meals must cost a lot more. So for every additional non-paying passenger in F-class, whether a non-rev, or an upgraded frequent flyer, that costs more money. And that brings the cost for everyone's ticket up (over time), doesn't it? In terms of return for that "upgrade" investment, at least upgrading FFs might encourage them to fly with that airline more often and result in more revenue down the line.

Justin
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:05 pm

At United upgrades get first before any non-reving passenger.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:17 pm

WOOHOO!! a topic I can really throw some input in.

I fly revenue quite a bit, and do a ton of non-reving... and it's not all that easy to get into First.

About revenue passengers up front -> normally, you have to ask for it. United FASTAIR will ask for a boarding priority and reason for an upgrade. You just can't put in "comp" for anyone... the agent needs some sort of duty code to list in order for it to be fair to the nonrevers. Because, you paid $99 for your trip and the airline is loosing money on you.. putting you up front will cost an extra $85 to $165 depending on your trip to the airline. So if you are flying on a cheap seat and don't use frequent flyer miles or a frequent flyer paid upgrade, you wont' make it to First Class.

First Class is A PRIVILEDGE... not a RIGHT!!!

I've asked many times about flying in F or Econ Plus when I am booked in a Q V or W class fare on United (lower end, normally 7 - 21 day adv fares) and I am asked for a reason. Saying I was on the board of an employee group won't help, nor being a travel agent. I would need to either get the agent's sympathy "I've never flown First before!" or something. That has worked like 4 times on United, and 2 on Northwest.

United has to protect it's revenue and it's product. I don't think a person paying full F from ORD to LGA is going to appreciate having a W class fare passenger sitting next to him, because he WILL brag about it .. I've heard it SO Many times!! (pax) "Wow.. I paid $182 for this ticket and i'm in first class! THIS IS SO COOL!!" only to have the full fare pax very very disturbed and upset. United has received MANY MANY complaint letters on this one. Non Revs, on the other hand, NEVER BRAG INFLIGHT or tell the person next to them they are flying free. NEVER. if an FA catches yo doing it, you can loose your flight benefits.

Again, First Class / Business Class is NOT A RIGHT... but a PRIVILEDGE!
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:32 pm

Segmant King, thanks for your insight! 
 
exitrowaisle
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 2:32 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 3:53 pm

Very good arguments, I'll admit. Didn't know the exact airline policies on non-rev upgrades. Just a question to SegmentKing, isn't the airline losing money on your seat as much as on someone who paid a discount fare? You get all the services of a full-fare passenger too, don't you? I can understand someone paying $1,000 for a first-class ticket being upset at a person paying a bargain fare getting identical service, but that's one of the pitfalls of the frequent flyer program. I agree first class is a "privelege," that's why I would NOT argue that someone showing up in torn sweats and a baseball cap should be moved up regardless of the number of miles they've flown. Nor do I expect you to give up your place for someone who shows up five minutes before the door closes and demands a seat. If you expect an upgrade, you'd better look and act the part! For that matter, that goes for ALL classes! Oh, well. Hope to see you all on board someday. I'll be the guy going "I only paid $182 and I'm in first class! THIS IS SO COOL!"  
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:06 pm

Screw those Frequent Flyers! They're the first to hoot and holler when their flights get delayed or cancelled and they yell the loudest and longest! It's our airplane and we'll put whoever we want up front whenever we want. They do sell those seats up there you know......If you want up there that bad, BUY A TICKET!!!
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:47 pm

Its amazing how quickly people forget that their frequent flyer status is due to travel conducted on behalf of their employer.

Quite a number of FF's that i know, use their mileage points to obtain family tickets.

So why is this PERK any different to the UPGRADE PERK available to airline employees?
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

A Couple Of Points...

Fri Dec 29, 2000 12:13 am

At Delta, the nonrev policy is as follows:

Free unlimited space available travel in North, Central, and South America using S3 priority.

18 free transoceanic "flight days." A flight day is just what it sounds like... one day for you to be on as many departures as you can fit into a day... for example, if I go ATL-CDG and am on a flight back to ATL that departs within 24 hours of the time I departed ATL, it's considered one flight day even though my travel time was more than 24 hours. So realistically you get 9 roundtrips over the pond. After you use up your 18 days... you have to pay the taxes on each transoceanic flight.

I also get 6 S2 priority flight days... so basically 3 roundtrips anywhere on a better priority... helps out on flights to ATL, JFK, and Latin America, as well as Europe.

Free space available upgrades systemwide.

Delta's travel package is widely recognized as the best in the industry. These benefits take effect after one month of employment.

That is just to give an idea of what we get at Delta.

On the issue of randomly upgrading passengers, it's a nice thing to do, but if we gate agents do that, we become a victim of our own creation. I can't tell you how many times a day I hear this dialogue with a passenger at the gate:

Gate Agent: "May I help you?"

Passenger: "Any chance of an upgrade tonight?"

Gate Agent: "Do you have your upgrade certificates?"

Passenger: "No, I don't have any upgrade certificates."

GA: "Well, are you a SkyMiles Medallion member?"

P: "No."

GA: "I see. And you're on an L fare. I'm afraid I won't be able to upgrade you tonight."

P(in a whiny voice): "But I know you can do it. They upgraded me from Raleigh-Durham to Atlanta."

GA: "No, I'm afraid I can't do it tonight."

Now multiply that by a good 6 or 7 passengers per flight and you're distracted from your duties of getting the flight out on time and taking care of passengers that really need to be helped, not to mention annoyed quite a bit.

SkyMiles helps Delta identify and reward its most loyal customers. They get Medallion status, Crown Room access, segment upgrade certificates, and a bunch of other stuff that non-revers don't get. All we get is the better seat. And we non-revers never get upgraded until they have gotten upgraded.

The key is to be selective in what flights you choose. I've flown probably 6 to 8 legs non-rev on Delta--mostly to LAX--and another 6 on PS-Y priority for training. All those times, I've sat in back once.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 12:47 am

actually i only know about some very few incidents where airlines actively put their staff (on reduced industry discount tickets) in their First class! In most casses it is possible that due to full coach or business class and still avaivable first classe seat, that the counter agent puts the staff in First. There are many airlines that even prohibit this (SQ for example is very stric with their industry discount travel). Of course most airlines do train their station staff to be more sales oriented and to offer some upgrades where it makes sense. However i can't agree with some of the postings that call for a rather automatic upgrade of the status customers whenever possible. Afterall airlines want to sell their First class! so the one eager to fly first should pay for it or use his/her miles to get an upgrade. There are cases where a status customer is upgraded free of charge and this is good so but it doesn't give the right to get an upgrade just due to the fact of available space! many carriers around the globe simply kiled their own first class by upgrading too many pax (weather full or non-revenue!)

To make a long story short, if your coach and business class are going full on a certain flight and you still have seats in First, then you should start upgrading your status customers to the next higher class. However reality can look quite different, if you don't have time to do this then you might opt for putting the staff in First as to take him on the flight without causing a delay!

Rgds
Amir
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:38 am

When I have flown United Revenue, if it's a long flight, i'll just fork out 10,000 miles from my account 3 days prior to travel and be booked in First Class, which is always nice.. especially to get the "F" marked on my bags, as well as the First Class tags.. but again, that's 10,000 less miles that I have. Begging at the gate DOES work, but only if you get the agent's sympathy. Both United AND Northwest have asked the gate agents to "protect the F revenue if at all possible", therefore getting cash for the upgrade.

United offers Mileage Plus members and Star Alliance partner FF'ers the option of purchasing upgrades.. i think it is $250 for 4 500 mile coupons... but those are not bookeable at the ticket counter.. only at the gate.. so you kinda have that standby-travel feeling. I have done this on United and Continental. And both times I got the last seat in F.

Now for other airlines... I have flown Northwest nonrev a few times and the gate agents know your ticket is only for Y, but most of the time if you are nice they will put you in F. F normally has a higher surcharge (double for us... $50 - $200 each leg based on miles)... but I've flown Detoilet - St. Louis in F, St. Louis - Memphis in F and St. Louis - Minnie in F on NW.. I tried on my many trips between ORD and MSP, but those flights were totally full in F.. except for one trip when I did not have a tie on        

I understand from a passenger poing of view wanting to fly first class.. it's wonderful up front! but you also need to take into account, that there is a cost for having you up there and it must be justified. Overbooked flight? Offer your seat... you could get bumped into First... the gate agents would rather fill coach first and put someone in F that gave up their seat than to someone who checked in late and is on the stand-by list. That got me F from Memphis to O'Hare on NW once...

So I didn't want to come off hostile about this subject, but too many people need to know that flying First is a priviledge and should be taken as such. Not the "im better than you folk in back" (smirk)... but it's a very basic and simple pleasure in life that not many people get to enjoy.

funny that i'm 21 and i've flown First class more than my father, who is a VP of the largest agribusiness giant in the country!! heh :P ((well, he gets to jet around in a Falcon 50 or Falcon 900 though.... ))
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 2:32 am

It is quite fair for airline employees and their eligible family and friends to ride up front if there is available
space. Putting employees up front shows that our employees are first class people that work very hard for
their benefits! The airline I work for has a very affordable $25 upgrade that is available to any paying
customer whether they paid $40 or $240 for their ticket
and is quite popular.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
zrs70
Posts: 3352
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:02 am

Well, everyone has said it, but no one has said the way I will say it!

Upgrades used to be given out at boarding, not based on FF status, but based on other factors. When FF programs began, airlines would offer "free" or "purchased" upgrades. Think about it... they used to give the upgrades, but now FF's trade in coupons. Those coupons are earned, not gifted.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
exitrowaisle
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 2:32 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:05 am

Wow, I didn't realize I touched on such a passionate subject!

Just for the record, the purpose of this post was NOT to advocate random upgrades for people who don't deserve it. From my perspective, it seemed like it was much easier for non-revs to upgrade than frequent flyers even willing to fork over miles. Looks like that is not the case, according to those of you who work for the airlines.

I agree with those of you who are annoyed at the people who feel "entitled" to first class, especially those who don't dress or act appropriately. I personally don't feel First Class is truly "owed" me unless I pay the fare, but if there's enough space up front, why shouldn't it be available if I'm willing to deduct the miles, and look and act decently? Supposedly that's what the Frequent Flyer program is for!

Finally, I still take offense at airline employees who say "screw frequent flyers! It's our airplane and we'll do what we want!" If that's what the airlines think of their customers, what is the passenger's motivation to treat airline employees with respect and follow the rules? I still say the airline exists to serve the customer, not the other way around!

Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday, and may you all be upgraded frequently!  
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:05 am

I am a rare, if not unique breed of person. An ELITE FREQUENT FLYER as well as a NON-REVVER.

I get my non-rev benefits through my dad. I am entitled to his benefits ad infinitum with no age restrictions now that he has completed 35 years of service. On AI that equates to a limited number of protected J class international ID00s. This means that I fly in J class completely free (not even tax) and have a priority for the J class seat above everything other than a revenue J passenger. No Y class pax will be upgraded into my seat as long as space remains in Y. We also get unlimited domestic protected J class seats and a limited amount of international protected J class ID90s (10% of fare + tax).

I also get interline benefits on a number of other carriers - not as many now that I am over the magic age of 23 but still pretty significant. One of these carriers is CO, where I am entitled to unlimited ID90s. Ironically, I also have ELITE priviledges on them by virtue of my revenue flying. An ELITE card gets me unlimited upgrades on domestic flights, so it essentially trumps a non-rev ticket which puts me in First only after the elites clear. I haven't yet tried to claim an Elite upgrade on a non-rev ticket, so thats a hypothetical!!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jfidler
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:20 am

Someone on this thread wrote how the gate agents get whiny requests for upgrades all the time, which must be annoying.

So what's the best way to get a free upgrade? How should it be done, and how should the request be phrased?

Justin
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:24 am

Hey DeltaSFO - how about this modified conversation?

----------
Gate Agent: "Do you have your upgrade certificates?"

Passenger: "Sure, I have oodles of them."

GA: "Well, are you a SkyMiles Medallion member?"

P: "Yes, Platinum Medallion since the days of the Flying Colonels."

GA: "I see. But you're on an L fare. I'm afraid I won't be able to upgrade you tonight."
------------

L fares are a pet peeve. Lets not even go there.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:28 am

Hey man.... your company's travel department shouldn't be buying you L fares... you should be getting full fare tickets which do allow you to use the 800 mile seg ug's. Just don't get an L or U and you're golden.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
nycank
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 6:47 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:52 am

DeltaSFO:
The single most distressing thing is removing SMUs. The next
is segment upgrades policy. Say suppose this year I'm Platinum, I get unlimited 800 segment upgrades. Next year I drop to gold, I now have none carried over from last year, because unlimited vanished. So, I'd rather be gold on two Airlines  

Anyway, I've managed to only use a fraction of my SMUs and 800 segments as many domestic segments do not have two classes.
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 8:40 am

I would have to say that some people are envious of the fact that non-revs get to fly upfront. Even over a frequent flier. I am a non-revver. My brother works for United. Contrary to what some may say, it is not hard to get a non-rev seat in first class. It's actually quite easy. When I want to fly, (or my mother or father, or my brother for that matter) we log onto Apollo and check the loads. I fly back and forth between JFK-LAX/SFO so these are three class flights. I always list myself in first for the flight that has the most space available in first, and then business. I have gotten first everytime except once in business, and twice in coach. I usually fly on Tuesdays or Wednesdays, twice I've flown on a Thursday (one thursday was in first, the other business) and I've flown on one Sunday (in coach). The times I traveled in coach was becuase an earlier flight was delayed or canceled and those passengers moved to our flight.

Knowing that I compete with employees and other non-revers, my brother knows how to log onto appollo to check the status of SA's (Space Availables). He can tell me if I am competeing with employees, retirees, or what the seniority status is of the other SA's. Hence I can tell where I fall in the line up of SA's in terms of priortiy. I choose what flight I am listed on using this information as well. Given all that, It's not difficult to get First or at least business.

Paying passengers (including those that are using upgrade coupons) get priority over all SA's (including employees and retirees), and rightfully so.

I must adhere to a dress code no matter what class I fly in and the code in first and business is more strict then in coach. I am not allowed to wear jeans. I have seen non-revvers get put in the back because they were not dressed properly. I like dressing up. I am the dress up type. I wont even wear a pair of khaki's in first or business (even though it is allowed) but that's my choice. I enjoy dressing up. I'd dress up like that even if I paid for the ticket.

I am allowed to travel in First or Business or Coach on three class domestic flights. I am only allowed to travel in Business class on three class international flights UNLESS my brother is travelling with me, then I can travel in first. Our parents can travel in first on International flights (they get the same benefits as my brother).

Some non-revvers have said it's not that fun and first isn't that great. HA!!! Are you kidding? I LOVE flying in first. I love to put my sleeper seat back and nap in comfort. I love the large very soft pillows. I love being called Mr. (our last name) and having my coat taken and hung for me. I enjoy the food and the service on china and table cloths and silver and crystal or glass (no plastic). I enjoy the compliementary spritis, wine and champaigne. I love my personal video player and personal video screen. Business if very nice as well. I love that too.

Hey, it's a perk, I'm lucky and priveledged and I know that.

I am always very courteous and nice to the gate agents and cabin crews. I smile and say please and thank you. If I am handed a boarding pass in coach I STILL smile and say thank you (although I am admittedly bummed I didn't get up front - hey I'm human, and admittedly spoiled. But who doesn't always want the best if you can get it?)

I think if you are gonna bitch about non-revvers in first, go work for an airline or get a relative that does. Or you can buy a first or business ticket or pay for a ticket and use an upgrade coupon (if you do, you will get that first or business seat before I do). I used to envy people who had these priveledges. Now I am lucky to have them (and when my brother said he was gonna go work for united, I tried to talk him out of it).

Evey industry has it's perks for employees and their families.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 8:50 am

Thank You Surf... you've summed up what I've been tyring to say.
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:12 am

P.S. When I non-rev I NEVER brag about it. No one knows I'm an SA except the purser or F/A who has the passenger manifest.

Exitrowaisle: you know what your perk is for flying all those miles with one airline? FREE TRAVEL.
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:33 am

I sometimes get companion tix from my friends who work for UA. I think I'm strange. Why? because I never care if I end up in first or coach. (Except if I'm really hungry, I prefer first because they really fed you a lot, compared to the little itty-bitty palm-sized "entrees" they serve in coach).

Actually, if I were to get a choice between sitting in a coach (window seat), and sitting in first class (aisle seat), the coach seat wins. I just think the FAs in First bother you too much. Although I realize most people enjoy feeling special with all that foo-foo fluffy personal service, it really begins to get on my nerves.

I prefer to be ignored in coach as I press my nose up against the window.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:48 am

I fly both Coach, and First class. It can be hard to get first class on the busy routes. Its almost impossible to get first class on UA Shuttle...at least to LAX. If I call UAL List, there may be 6 open seats in first, and i'm the only s/a listed for the flight. When I get there, first is always full, and I end up sitting in the back row of coach.

I dont brag about flying non-rev. Infact, I'll almost never mention it. If i'm talking to the person next to me, and they ask, "what brings you to (city)?" I may answer, if im going for fun, i will answer just like that. If i'm in first, I get strange look, and I tell them that my dad works for United, but other than that, it dosnt come up.

I will tell the flight attendants, if i'm talking with with them. On some flights I get into some pretty interesting conversations with flight attendants back in the galley. I could be there for hours, and they dont care. If they do care, I always tell them to let me know, and i'll be happy to return to my seat. During the course of that time, I tell them that i'm non-reving, and that I want to be a flight attendant. Minutes later...I'm doing the work for them. 
 
Britair
Posts: 900
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:09 am

as an airline employee I think it's a perk of the job to be upgraded.....i mean we have to put up with a lot of crap from all those lovely "frequent flyers"! Plus the airline industry as a general rule pays a lot lower, so why the hell not, most of us stick it out with an airline for the love of the industry, not for the money.

Besides airlines discourage complimentary upgrades as it dilutes revenue, if pax know they are going to get upgraded at the airport the will only buy Y class tickets. Like it was said before "if you want it pay for it!" It keeps me in a job and keeps me happy!

cheers 
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:19 am

Surf and ILUV767..... very well said. I LOVE non revving! It is definitely addictive... there's nothing like daytrips to LAX, PDX, or SEA. I've bought id90s on UA to SEA, the gate agents are a lot nicer to nonrevvers than to regular pax... just kidding. I don't even want to imagine how stressful it must be to work for UA Shuttle in a hub like SFO or LAX.

I love getting handed a boarding pass with a seat assignment like 1F, 2A, 4K... anything up front... although of course I prefer a window. Bragging about being a nonrev is a big no-no at Delta.

DeltaSFO


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It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:42 am

Aside from not bragging about it, here is the second rule with non-reving.

TAKE THE SHIT, WITH A SMILE! 

Now let me explain.

I was in first class on a day trip down to SNA from SFO, and I took the last open seat in first. I was very happy to bein first, but right as I was getting settled in, I was bumped. Too bad. I'm still on the plane right? Yes...i cant complain.

Next thing. If there is a meal shortage, your the first to go hungry.

Next, dont even think about ringing the call button. Why? Just trust me on this one.

Middle Seats. Ahh, the joy of the middle. Oh, yes, you the non-rever gets the undesired seats. But hey, its still a seat on the plane. Cant complain.


To make up for the Shit with Smile rule, you may get first class, but the same rules still apply.

Oh, one more thing, as a non-rever. Always be nice to the CSRs. Dont go up screaming, when the flight is cancled. If its cancled, while all of the paying pax are screaming at the top of their lungs at a CSR, you, the non-rever slowly disapears to another gate.
Getting Creative is one of the non-reving joys.

Happy Flying everyone,

David
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:49 am

Hey David,

You Americans have so much look with free flights. Us Europeans must actually pay. For example and ID95 with Aer Lingus DUB-LHR is $60 for a return.

IF we have a Y ticket, we fly Y and not F or C (only if Y is full) We cannot change our plans at the last minute. We cannot purchase 10s of tickets and then refund them. The Swissair staff office has introduced a rule that they charge you about $7 for every ticket you want to refund.

Oh well I guess I should be happy to have my non rev benefits while they last. My 23rd or 24th birthday will be hell!

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
unitedchicago
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2000 1:44 pm

Ever Hear Of Sa?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:07 pm

All:

Employees of airlines only get a seat on a flight if, if there are empty seats. Read: if an employee is in first class, then the first cabin was not completely sold. This also includes frequent flyer upgrades. Every employee has a boarding priority...it's usually last of the last.

The exception is airline employees traveling for business. They usually get a confirmed seat.

The only cases, again ONLY CASES of an employee bumping a paying passenger is if there was a death in the family (fringe benefit) or there was an airline emergency (if a plane crashes, the airline's safety team gets positive space).

Trust me as - I was an employee dependent...I know what I am talking about.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 3:25 pm

Thank you UnitedChicago,

thats what i've been trying to say. Thank you.

Happy Flying,
David
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 8:09 pm

Let me stress one thing. Every airline has different priorities and different policies.

Its really amusing to watch 13-20 year olds argue semantics with each other, while trying to compare an apple to an orange.

 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Wishihadalife

Fri Dec 29, 2000 8:27 pm

Semantics, the word "stress" in a post, let alone a post with more than a one sentence quick quip belittling everybody here!!! I'm thinking you had brain surgery yesterday or perhaps your keyboard is now possessed. Which is it???????
 
Guest

RE: Non-revs In 1st Class

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:43 pm

This is one of our job perks working for an airline. Here at DELTA us employees have to opportunity to fly in First if there are open seats. Us employees are only upgraded after all revenue passengers that are eligable and are on the standby list are cleared. And nowadays it rarely happens cause we are so busy. If you want to sit in First Class by a ticket.

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