Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:42 am

How come is Delta using their 767-300er fleet to such a long and BUSY route in Athens? Is there going to be a change to a 777? Is it because of the airport? Or are they waiting for the new Greek airport to open later on 2001 that will have a 13100ft runway? (Eventought i dont think it has to do with the runway length because ATH is using a 10000 ft length) BUT who knows?????
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

Re: One Word.......

Fri Dec 29, 2000 7:56 am

......Aircraft Shortage. I'm sure many routes in Delta's system warrant the 777, but the problem is there are only 7 of them compared to the 50-70 767-300(ER)s in service. Perhaps DeltaSFO or Delta737 can shed some light on the subject, but Delta has had an aircraft shortage for some time and it will likely not get any better.
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RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 9:13 am

I'm sure it's not runway length. But DeltaAir has a good point. Assuming the loads are really high, Delta doesn't have enough planes. Didn't they operate the MD-11 to ATH? They have several more 777's on order but those won't be delivered for quite some time.
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 11:57 am

Due to a dispute with its pilots over pay scales for 777's, Delta delayed (and nearly cancelled an order) for its 777's. The airline has been very slow to expand the
use of this plane in its fleet, relying heavily on its 767
and MD11 fleet for 90% of its longhauls. Delta has 11
more 777's on order, but it lags far behind AA, UA,
and CO, the other US operators of this aircraft, in
overally usage.

As for the JFK-ATH route, the 767 is just fine. They
would probably try for an MD11 but those jets are
committed to other routes including NRT and CDG.

Delta has a shortage of widebodies for longhauls. It
has tons of 767-200's, 767-300's, and will have 21
767-400's but sadly none of these were upgraded
to operate longhaul flights.

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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2000 4:14 am

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 12:34 pm

I am a frequent flyer on the DL 767-300's between JFK and ATH and was told this past October that there are plans to institute the 777 on this route possibly as early as this spring.
I am sure that it is a matter of aircraft availability and not runway length.
There are other airlines, such as THAI who presently fly the 777 into ATH from BGK.
DL is currently using the MD11's on the ATL-ATH route which is a seasonal route and does not operate during the winter months.
It is too bad that they didn't equip the 767-400's for long haul flying. That would have been a perfect size for this market.
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2000 7:16 am


Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:13 pm

I know that some airplanes can do this flight (6500 nm I think) and I believe that this would be a profitable route. Mabey OA will do this with the 340-600 they get. The 340-200 can make the flight westbound but with the winds it can't make it eastbound. I love going to Greece and this flight would make it so much easier. I think it will happen, what do you guys think?
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 2:14 am

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:59 pm

A couple years ago I flew to Greece on Swissair and returned on DL. I live in Washington, and I was originally scheduled to return via ATL on MD-11.However that flight was delayed and DL put me on the 767 to JFK.

Delta used the MD11 from ATL only in summer when the passenger demand to go to Greece was high. The 767 was a year-round visitor. When I retuned, that was in July - tourist season, the pax load to JFK was very very sparse. Perhaps the loads on this route aren't as dense as one might think. Also keeping in mind, not many tourists would want to visit Athens in winter - it rains all the time!

I would love to see a 777 in Delta colors in ATH though! The runway length isn't an issue, seeing how SQ flies to ATH with A343's and Olympic has their old 742's and new A340's.

Happy travels,
"Insert generic statement here."
Purdue Arrow
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Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 4:48 pm

I was reading a Delta 757/767 CVG base bid sheet recently, and there was a note in there that the JFK-ATH flight was going to be operated by a 777 for several days in December, due to heavy bookings. This would lead me to believe that the route has the traffic to warrant the upgrade sometimes, but not enough to justify a permanent upgrade to the 777.
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 pm


Athens is a summer destination so it is not so strange that the ATH-JFK route was so sparsely used. A few people in Greece want to travel to US during summer.
As far as the rain issue, I am an Athens native and our joke this year was that we were preparing for Christmas but the weather was as if it was Easter.  )))

I agree with you in the 777 issue, Thai operates a -300 from Bangkok, replacing a 747-400.

Greetings from sunny Greece....
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Delta 767-300ER To ATH Greece?

Fri Dec 29, 2000 11:37 pm

Well.... where do I start. This is one of the biggest obstacles to Delta right now... our lack of B-777 aircraft.

As ContinentalEWR correctly stated, the pilots and management had a dispute when Delta introduced the 777 into service over 777 pay and working conditions. Delta parked the two 777s it had already received, and deferred a bunch of its deliveries to 2002.

JFK-ATH is definitely one of the routes that could use the increased capacity of the 777. It's common knowledge that if scheduling had their way, we would have 10 or 11 on property by now and they'd be flying more heavily out of JFK, as well as the big four high yield long-haul domestic city pairs: JFK-SFO, JFK-LAX, ATL-LAX, and ATL-SFO. Their large BusinessElite cabins and modern interiors give them a lot of passenger appeal, a lot more than the -300ER, which we get from both JFK and ATL, here at SFO.

There are rumblings around here that Delta is going to place a large, maybe even blockbuster 777 order with Boeing once the labor dispute with pilots is settled. The sooner we get 777s, the sooner we can get rid of the dreaded MD-11s. Still, with an order now, deliveries would not start until late 2002, as the production list up to then is pretty much sewn up. So, according to a 767-400 pilot I was chatting with after an ATL-LAX flight, Delta is quietly shopping around to see if any carriers are interested in selling their 777 options to us.

The larger issue, as DeltaAir correctly stated, is aircraft availability. We just can't get our hands on airplanes fast enough. There are so many routes that have the potential to be very profitable for Delta, but there are not enough airplanes, and soon there will not be enough crews.

So currently, Delta has 7 777s in the fleet.. ships 7001-7007. There are 6 more scheduled deliveries which will complete our initial order of 13 777s, but the next delivery is not until February 2002. But this you can count on: we will end up with a lot more than 13 777s in the fleet. You can take that to the bank.


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