Red Panda
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A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 9:38 am

Have you guys here ever been on an A320 with 180 Y-class seats? I've been on one yesterday nite from Orlando to YYZ operated by Skyservice SSV. The flt. was delayed for two hours and finally took off at 1am at Orlando, and arrived YYZ at 3:25am. it was a really cramped cabin with 180 seats. we finally safely landed at rwy 33R at YYZ. flt. no. SSV 425

Happy New Year,
Red Panda
 
Guest

RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 9:42 am

Are you sure it was Y180? Ive heard of Virgin putting 218 in the A321.
Tom
 
ILUV767
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:48 am

Is 180 seats even safe? Well SkyService is based in Canada, so they dont comply with FAA regulations.
 
crewchief32
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:20 am

Y180 is standard on almost every charter A320, just take a look at FlyFTI, Onur Air, Air Alfa or any British charter airline.
The A321`s of Air Alfa and Onur Air have a seating of 220 in all-Y-class.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 2:16 pm

Canada 3000 has 174 seats on its A320 (thats one row less than the 180 seaters).
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
ILUV767
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 2:32 pm

My point exactly, if an airline is registered in the United States, the FAA wont allow them to cram 180 people that is designed for 150. They would have to add another exit.

All those charter airlines are based somewhere other than the USA. Airlines that are not registered in the US, and follow FAA regulations can do what ever they want.
 
Guest

RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 3:33 pm

Just as an FYI - both Canada 3000, and Skyservice are licensed, and approved by the FAA to operate these a/c into, out of, or base them within the U.S.A. (as both have done). In order to qualify for this, they must meet FAA standards with respect to safety. In many instances, these standards exceed FAA requirements.

As an example, with respect to crewing, the FAA allows U.S. airlines to operate with 1 Flight Attendant per 50 passengers, while elsewhere (including Canada) the requirement is a more stringent 1 Flight Attendant per 40 seats. So in that instance, if you were flying on a Canadian, or British, or Danish (etc.) registered aircraft, operating for a U.S. airline, you will have additional crew to manage an emergency - not the bare minimum allowable, as you would on an FAA mandated, U.S. registered aircraft.

Although the amount of exits per seats is certainly important, overall safety is not limited to that one factor.

The regulatory authorities in many other countries are equally qualified to mandate airline safety as the FAA. Just because the company is not registered, or based in the U.S., it doesn't mean it is less safe.

Having said all that, having flown Airtours, Air2000 & Leisure - either 174 or 180 seats are too many for an A320 - from a comfort perspective (but still better
than 235 in a 757...)
 
YXDFan
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 3:54 pm

I'd pick a Transport Canada approved a/c over an FAA approved a/c anyday!
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:23 pm

The A320 is emergency-exit-rated for 189 people (same as the 737-800 and -900)
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
slawko
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:03 pm

You thin k180 is bad, the new Canada 3000 A319's will have 145 seats on the plane...it will seem like a hell of a lot of seats for that little plane.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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ERJ135
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 8:21 pm

Funny you know, it's all just seat pitch you are talking about, and the minimum distance between seat rows govern the total per aircraft. Hence the A319 carries less than the A320 which carries less than the 757.
The 757 is longer and there for fits more seat rows, they are not simply positioned closer together.
Having said that if you do object to sardine class seating pay more and get more!
I remember when the DC-3 was new!
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Mon Jan 01, 2001 8:51 pm

ERJ135 - not entirely true. The capacity is in someway governed by the minimum distance between seat rows. However, the binding limitation on the numbder of seats is how many emergency exits, and of what type, there are (someone posted a link to an interesting article about this not so long ago). For example, the 737-900 is larger than the 737-800. However, both aircraft are certified to carry no more than 189 pax, due to the number of emergency exit doors. 189 is also the magic number for the A320. From memory, it is 225 for the A321 and 757 fitted with no overwing exits.
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
ctflyer
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 12:25 am

What was the servie like on Skyservice?
 
gkirk
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 12:35 am

I don't have a problem flying a/c in all Y config. I have been on an A300 with 360 seats, a B757 with 235 and a SH 360 with 39 seats.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
JetCaptain
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 2:21 am

FYI,

Ryan International, a U.S. company, also operate A320's with 180 seats (for Skyservice USA btw), and as pointed out above, Skyservice Canada and Canada 3000 both operate flights orginating from the USA, so the argument that these airlines do not meet FAA criteria is simply incorrect.

The number of seats in itself is rather meaningless anyway. Does anyone know what the "seat pitch" is on an A320 with 180 seats ? And how does that compare with a B757 with say 235 seats ? And how does it compare with a regular airlines economy class seat pitch in a two class configured aircraft ?

Also isn't the A319/20/21 wider than comparable Boeing models, B737/B757 ?

The bottom line is people love to complain, but when it comes down to actually having to "pay" for more room, the market just isn't there. Put up or shut up IMHO.

JC



 
jbangert
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 2:38 am

For a given seat pitch, the Airbus 320 family will still offer the extra width of its fuselage by comparison with the Boeing 737 and 757, i.e. slightly wider seats and/or aisles.
 
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ILUV767

Tue Jan 02, 2001 2:48 am

OF COURSE CANADIAN AIRLINES HAVE TO COMPLY WITH FAA REGULATIONS...we are not that uncivilized...god.
 
OH-LGA
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:14 am

Well, maybe this is semi- off topic but not much, I've been on a Finnair 757-200 that was configured for charter ops with an all economy class seating of 218. It was actually the most comfortable plane ride I've ever had, my dad who is 6' 6" loved it as well as his knees didn't touch the seat in front of him and his feet were on the floor  

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
ILUV767
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RE: A320 With 180 Seats!

Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:28 am

Flyboy767,

I never thought that canadians were uncivilized! I'm just saying that in Canada, you have different rules and regulations than in the United States. I didnt think that the amount of exits on an A320 is safe for that many passengers. I wasnt sure if the FAA allows 180 seats on an A320. I guess that they do.

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