Guest

Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 7:44 am

Air France has in-flight products for premium passengers that are not at all competitive compared to today's industry leader in premium classes, like virgin, BA, and SIA.
Air France have not truly changed their premium classes since 1995, only new (ugly) colors, which is truly LOUSY, as BA, virgin and SIA all have premim classes that have been recently changed. I heard that they are working on new ones to be introduiced in 2003. ho, good. But 2003 is far from now. and when we will arrive in 2003, SIA, BA, virgn will also have new premium services, which means that AF will always be late on the comfort industry, as they will introduice thing to has been introduiced by others airline in 2000. Now some airlines might have (even if only very few ones) even lower products than AF, but you must consider one thing : Air France is the third biggest airline in the world. They *say* they want to be one of the best airlines to th eyes of their costumer. Well, they maybe should introduice BIG changes right now and not to wait until 2003. One more thing : look at the new "l'espace premiere" and "l'espace affaires" logo. It truly makes you thinks that you are flying in an 1960 airline...
           
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 7:46 am

Air France is i think Nr.7 in terms of RPKs.

Avion
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 7:50 am

You are talking about what I said that AF is the third bigger ?
Yeah but in I don't remember what type of ranking, AF are third, Lufthansa second, United first.
 
Delta15
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 5:32 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 7:57 am

The top three are ua aa dl. Yeah ive noticed that they dont have quite as nice of a premium class as other airlines like ana, sq, ua, aa and others. but they are still a reliable airline with a diverse and modern fleet, making them one of my more favorite airlines.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 7:58 am

AF has a lousy premium class? I don't think so. My uncle has flown both first and business class on AF. He said that it was the best first class he had ever flown. He hasn't tried Singapore though.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:35 am

"You are talking about what I said that AF is the third bigger ?
Yeah but in I don't remember what type of ranking, AF are third, Lufthansa second, United first."

????? I dont quite get it. Please clarify.

Avion
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 9:15 am

Personally, I disagree with you l'espace180, I think l'espace première and l'espace affaires have a nice look to them, and not only nice, but preofessional.

I have never flown Air France, so I can't comment on their service, but I do believe that they do their job well. As Air France is so large, they can never do things the way Swissair and Singapore do them, but for a large airline, they do their job well.

By the way, the top five airlines are:
1. AMR
2. UAL
3. British Airways Group Ltd.
4. Delta Air Lines
5. Lufthansa

In terms of the airlines themselves:
1. United Air Lines
2. American Airlines
3. Delta Air Lines
4. British Airways.

Air France is still the third largest airline in Europe, in any respect.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 9:18 am

Air France IS the third bigest airline.
But I do not know in what are they the third biggest.

CBA : I have also flown air france's premium class.
But just compare it with other leader like SIA and BA.
And then you will understand that, for a big airline like that, it is permited to have products like that. I believe, that when they were introduced in 1995, those products were among the best, but know, we are in 2001.
AF still has an old 2-2-2 first class, other airline like SIA and BA have now suites.
AF biz class does not offer generous recline, no lumbar support, and the head rest does not really move.

But, it is true that my favorite airline is among the best in one thing : FOOD ! normal, this is a french airline !...
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 9:19 am

nice , it is true, but not competitive.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 9:45 am

Now wait a minute...let's clarify what "industry leader" means, because there are any number of benchmarks against which that honor can be measured-thus allowing more than one airline to lay claim to that title......
Just some areas to consider:

Who is the industry leader by:

On time arrivals and departures?
In flight service and amenities?
Quality/quantity of meal service?
Best value for the money?
Newest fleet?
Most passengers carried?
Largest fleet?
Most number of flights in a day?
Number of cities served?
"Frills" such as limousine service, airport clubs, etc.?
Best yield management system?

And the list goes on and on.

So, I don't think it's really possible for any one airline to claim to be the "industry leader". Not unless it's industry leader in -------- (insert any one of the above).
Indeed, some of the above criteria conflict with each other, making it impossible for one airline to claim victory straight across the board.
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 10:26 am

Of course we were talking about the industry leader for in-flight services and comfort.
We all understood that it was about that as I talked about "premium class".
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 3:03 pm

I agree that AF needs toupgrade their premium services. I have flown on both their First and Business classes. The service was very nice. However, the Business class seat was average, and the food in First was not any better than business. The First seat is great because it reclines 180, but it is not competitive to a "suite." They have the potential to have a kick-ass premium product, its just not quite there yet.

-wes
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sat Jan 06, 2001 6:57 pm

Hello,

According to surveys conducted aming their frequent flyers, Air France pleases its customers with the current offer.

This means their customers don't rate Air France only on their seats, but also on the Flight Attendants, the food, ground services, reservation, airport facilities, ...

According to the same surveys, some competitors do have better marks as far as the seats are concerned.

The recent upgrades, which some people find ugly, are apparently pleasing customers (that's the most important, isn't it?).

Air France was among the first airlines in the world to introduce a full reclining bed in First class (L'Espace Première First) in 1995.
Is this a reason not to improve the offer? No. Of course, Air France, like any other airline willing to stay in the race, is always investigating all options for future in-flight services. Be sure they want to care for what provides half of their revenue -premium customers.

The date of 2003 was reported in the press. That might sound a bit long before they chaneg their offer. But that's the average industry timing.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Philippe Gindrat



Air France's Tempo Economy

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sun Jan 07, 2001 3:40 am

By what is AF the third largest in the world? Well, maybe cargo tons and miles, that KE took the 1st place in 2000?

I don't have any idea for AF premium service because I had taken only in tempo.
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:46 am

Air France is second or fourth in cargo, I think.
 
Guest

RE: Air France:will It Be One Day Industry Leader?

Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:55 am

It is true that the service counts much. Air France is one of the airline that serves the best food. But you can compare the services (like dinning when you want, sleeper program, how many courses has the meal...) that Air France give to its passengers, it is quite lower than the one others airlines offer.