Patrick_L
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:09 am

A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:00 am

I have red in am magazine that the European Consortium ( >AIRBUS<) will if the airline wishes so put on board fitnesscenters and shoppingcenters on the new A-380 ! I have a 30 year old B-747 Card where they had bars in 1.Class ! They quit that again ! Wahts your opinion on the Airbus ??????

Pat
 
SR3496
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:07 am

IMO The 380 will be the same as every airliner is in cattle class! Maybe bars and other intetresting things for C, F passengers, but in eco...forget it.
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:45 am

IMO, the A380 will have seats. Lots and lots (and lots and lots) of seats. Initially, the airlines *may* put a bar or lounge (but forget showers, casinos or a jacuzzi-suite!) on the lower deck, but in time the carriers will get greedy, seat pitch will drop to 18" with 40 seats across, and the A380 will hold 2000 pax in a single-class configuration. Or pax will simply sit on the floor and they will do away with seats altogether.

Ok, so I exaggerated a bit...but not much! 

Corey777
 
Ikarus
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 2:16 am

Actually, as there appears to be a trend to provide passengers with more service and entertainment and comfort than eg 15 years ago, I think that any new plane will bring some improvements. For example, there are few B777s without PTVs. And just think how Richard Branson's eyes will glisten at all the useless gimmicks that he can put into his new A380s - massage centres, bars, a shopping centre and who knows, maybe even a children's playpen to keep all the noise concentrated in one place- some airlines will introduce such stuff, just because of their image. But in the long term, it is not going to be any different from other planes. I just believe that they will improve, too.

However, this only goes for the elite of airlines (Virgin, BA, Singapore Airlines etc.). Many others will just follow their own policies on the matter.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 2:57 am

"However, this only goes for the elite of airlines (Virgin, BA, Singapore Airlines etc.)." Thank you although I don't know why you included British Airways plc.

There won't be a shopping centre. Imagine what would happen if CAT approaches or if the plane dropped down. Unless there are security measures installed. There won't be one.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 3:03 am

i could imagine bars or lounges and perhaps some showers, and for first class pax something like a restaurant to have lunch or dinner, but nothing big. except for some airlines like virgin, singapore and cathay, there won´t be anything spectacular aboard. the airlines wouldn´t anything which would take away to much space.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 3:27 am

I have a brochure, issued by Lockheed in 1971, that offers pretty much the same thing on their L1011. At the end of the day, only one airline (PSA) ordered an underfloor lounge on the aircraft - and then only on two planes. Both were sold to Worldways; one is now the Operation Blessing Flying Hospital; the other has been broken up.

As for Branson doing it - forget it. He's skilled at making all sorts of headline grabbing statements; but at the end of the day he isn't going to do anything that (a) loses money; or (b) is going to result in added cost when it comes time to dispose of the aircraft.

If an airline tries to personalise them too much, they will become unsaleable except at a massive discount - and at some US$250 - 300m each (twice the cost of a B747-400) they can't afford the possibility of having aircraft laid up costing them US$2 - 3 million a month in finance.
 
servisair
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 3:30 am

Mmmmmmm. 500 people all getting up to go to the duty free shop at the back of the plane = extremely interesting flying!!. It's just not practical. Bars, Bedrooms, yes. Shops......I don't think so.
30 Yeras in the Biz...
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 4:04 am

The airlines are improving service even economy we just don't realize it because we expect more and more. I hear UAL is repitching to economy plus on their international economy and others will have to improve also. Shopping on board will be there because it has potential to make some big money, a relatively affluent shopper captive for hours.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcente

Wed Jan 10, 2001 7:12 am

The 'shopping centre' is not going to be some huge sprawling complex. It will, if it exists, be a small room, similar in style to the galley. IMO, it would actually be an improvement in safety in the event of CAT (Clear Air Turbulence). Currently, airlines offer duty free by pushing trolleys up and down the aisles. In the event of sudden pitching and altitude changes, these trolleys quickly become deadly missiles that you reall don't want landing on top of you. Moving the duty free stuff to a small room, out of the way, also leaves the aisles clearer for people to get up and walk around, which relieves the DVT problem, and encouraging people to walk to get their duty free relieves the problem even further.

Of course, there still is the problem for the people standing up during a CAT. Perhaps put hand rails at the roof level of the 'shop' and 'strongly advise' passangers to hold onto them for their own safety...
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
BostonBeau
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 7:20 am

Exactly, VirginFlyer. The on board shop will be a duty-free boutique that will take up almost no room, and will probably be staffed for only a portion of the flight. I have been on flights where they have run out of the popular items on the duty-free cart, and this way the airline can be sure of getting those sales. On VS, they even ask you to make your selections on your outbound flight, for claiming on your return flight, to make sure they have the items you want.
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 8:04 am

Given that airlines will want to make money on these new plane, you can rest assure that restaurants, bars and jacuzzi's will not happen.

However, this is not to say that certain airlines will not outfit their Skytanics with greater seat pitch and the latest in electronic wizardry.

I would expect larger PTV's, with more expansive programming that includes such things as "Your menu" "duty free shopping" etc etc. Also expect a greater range of meals available and an overall improvement in comfort in all classes.

HOWEVER,

If charter operations get hold of the A380 we can forget the above and look forward to a new version of cattle class. What a horrid thought.

mb
 
cba
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 9:06 am

Many airlines already operate first class sleeper seats, so beds are not needed. Showers? I doubt it. Where will they get the water from? They will have to store it on the plane. Water is heavy. They'd have to recycle the water, and would need a filtration system to separate hairs and soap from the water. This costs money, and is also heavy. We may see a lounge at first, but it will only be available to first class passengers. No changes for the average economy or business traveller. Anybody remember the old 747 first class lounge? Didn't last too long after the airlines realized that they could cram seats into the extra space.

The first 747 carried about 300 people. The current model carries 416. They haven't stretched it that much, and the upper deck doesn't add that many more pax. Anybody remember seat pitch20 years ago (I don't, lol), but I heard that it was much better.
 
BostonBeau
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 10:47 am

Actually, Cba, B747s had lounges in the rear of coach in addition to the upper deck First Class lounge not too long after they were introduced, at least after the recession in the early 1970s hit. Airlines figured that if they weren't filling all those economy seats, they might as well make the people that were flying happier. The coach lounges were not in the original 747s as delivered though and didnt last too long. DC10s and L1011s had them too. But the A380 is so much bigger, that I suspect the airlines that buy them will have coach lounges to attract attention and to have something special to advertise, at least until they need the room for more seats. Airbus does a lot of things modularly, so I wouldnt be surprised if you couldnt pop out one section of seats and pop in a pre fabbed lounge area without too much trouble. It's a novelty, and novelties sell.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Wed Jan 10, 2001 11:47 am

When the 747's were new, the airline mktg staff would have problems selling the 400 seats that every Jumbo offered. Remember that before the 747, most airlines had the 150 seat 707. So it was a quantum jump in the terms of number of seats sold.

So airlines hit upon the "idea" of taking away 50-60 seats and providing all sorts of amenities ranging from bars to complete lounges!

But as the market expanded, the airlines saw that they had no problem selling upto 400 seats a flight, and for airlines it made better business sense to replace all these hi-funda facilities with rows of seats. But they still provided ample legroom (upto 38" in Y i hear). But that too has now been reduced toa round 32" which is pretty much the industry standard.

A similar thing was noticed with the 707's as well. Initially most 707's were configured with a 5 abreast layout, but airlines soon switched to a 6-abreast layout as soon as they discovered how many extra pax they could squeeze in.

So IMO, its about the the no of seats that an airline is sure about selling.

With the A380, its going to be no different. In the initial stage, perhaps for 5 yrs or so, we may have A380's with all the fundas that we see in that ad. But sooner or later airlines are going to replace the bars and saunas with seats. plain and simple.

Emirates(EK) is shortly planning to use A380's on their packed to the gills India flights. Atleast 2 airports BOM and COK are being prepared to receive this jet. But i doubt that EK is going to provide all these facilities on these flights. These aircraft are going to be configured as cattle carriers, most probably in a 2 class layout. But i do expect more pitch will be provided in Y class.
 
emirates777
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RE: IndianGuy

Fri Jan 12, 2001 1:59 am

IndianGuy,
Emirates will only start operating the A380 once strict Indian govt. capacity restrictions imposed on foreign carriers are removed.

Recently they received clearance to upgrade their flights from A300/A310 to A330s on routes to India. Ideally they want to operate their Boeing 777-200 and Boeing 777-300s to India at the current time but the Indian govt. won't let them.

Emirates777
 
astrojet
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:32 am

I believe in lots and lots of seats.
 
OO-AOG
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:40 am

I think we will see interesting new features and entertainements aboard the A380. Also imagine what will be a VIP version of the A380 (for the Sultan of Brunei as an example...).
Also, money doesn't always mean lot of seats, Business and First class passengers are the high yeld ones.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Guest

RE: BostonBeau

Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:50 am

Interesting idea of popping in a module, our 777s currently have crew rests in LD11 modules that are located in the aft pit, it's a little short on headroom but who knows what the A380 could provide. It's not too hard to imagine pop in lounge, or Duty Free Store modules even rest or shower modules. As for water there is a recycled water shower available but the public may not buy into the idea. On a BBJ I was involved with, weight and balance issues were significant for the bosses shower needs.
 
AT
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 3:01 am

Emirates777,

RE: "Recently they received clearance to upgrade their flights from A300/A310 to A330s on routes to India. Ideally they want to operate their Boeing 777-200 and Boeing 777-300s to India at the current time but the Indian govt. won't let them."

I always wondered why the capacity on Indian routes was not that high. This explains it. But can you elaborate? what govtl regulations are these?
 
jaysit
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 6:37 am

If this bird can be configured to offer a wider seat (20-21") with a bit more legroom (33-34" instead of 30-31" being offered today) in Coach, that's a gigantic improvement right there. Add a small inflight boutique or two (the size of one or two lavs), a few standup bars (the size of half a lav each), and you've got a winner. And if you stuff families with screaming babies into their own section on the plane, then you're looking at a very pleasant flying experience.

The rest is all nonsense. Even Branson (whose Virgin Atlantic offers the nastiest pitch in Y across the Atlantic) knows it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Red Panda
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 7:37 am

No. it is still too expensive to do so and there would be only a few customers willing to pay for things like onboard casino or shopping centre. Just imagine how many ppl would like to pay for a criuse trip. Not too much, of course. Forget about that promotion strategy. When 747 first came out, Boeing say the same thing too. Tho there were really a wine bar onboard in the earlier ages, but not anymore.

Regards,
R Panda
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 8:00 am

Remember, an Aircraft is for transport, not for pleasure.
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 9:34 am

No,

There won't be any shopping malls, swimming pools, hot tubs, art gallerys, or anything else on the A380. It will be crammed full of seats.
 
Guest

RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 1:28 pm

I want to have a b-ball court and that says yo mama at center court
 
zsx81
Posts: 288
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 1:34 pm

A bar makes sence, but a fitness center??? I dont think so.
ALi
 
VirginA340
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RE: A-380 Do You Believe The Onboard Shoppingcenter?

Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:47 pm

I can imagine a a bar on the A380 as well as lounges with seat belts but definantly not shopping centers or fitness centers. Clear air turbulence would injure alot of people shopping in the in air shopping centers and fitness centers or the basketball courts. If the pilot has to take evasive action to avoid other aircraft, terrain or an obsticle like a building then many people would be hurt and thats when the liability will come and indanger a carrier's survival. I can imagin a small space dedicated to duty free because during clear air turbulence those duty free carts, food/beverage carts can act like deadly missles coming down the aisles. It's better if you have hand rails so that people can hold on to throughout the plane on their way to the lounges or the duty free closet that will be open for an hour or two toward the end of a flight as virginflyer had stated.
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