SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Wed Jan 17, 2001 10:44 pm

I read to day in Airliners World Magazine that KLM's "new" Economy Class has a 31" seat pitch.

The first aircraft to be refitted is a 744.

I am shocked. How could they do this. Or was it a printing error?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Wed Jan 17, 2001 11:22 pm

I thought that virtually all major airlines, including your beloved SIA, have 31" in Y class, especially with the new slimline seats.

So whats so shocking about that?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
LBA
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Wed Jan 17, 2001 11:36 pm

I thought 31-32" was pretty standard. Airtours charter flights give a generous 29"!!
 
Notarzt
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Wed Jan 17, 2001 11:44 pm

Yep, refer to Britannia and Airtours for comparison. 32" is pretty standard in these days.

Daniel
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 12:20 am

Jaysit: For the first time recently I disagree with you. my "beloved" Singapore Airlines Ltd. Economy Class seat pitch is 32". 1" more than you specified. Sorry dear!

I would expect Charter Airlines to havee less pitch.

A though has just struck me. Why is all the commotion about DVT ono scheduled airlines as they offer more space?! An intriguing paradox.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 12:27 am

Singapore Airlines seat pich is 31''. 31'' is standard amonst most airlines.

Avion
 
Guest

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 12:38 am

I thought Korean had something like 34..
Skybutt
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 12:50 am

"Singapore_Air" :
"Avion" is correct, the seat pitch on Singapore Airlines is 31" not 32"
Regards
Trevor AKA Airbus_A340  
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
LBA
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 1:08 am

Singapore Air - your presumption that charter airlines would have less pitch is not correct. If they can get away with it they do, in the UK Britannia 767s seat over 320, but in Germany their 767s are configured for about 270. This is because German passengers will not accept cramped conditions. Maybe a lesson we could all learn from?
 
Guest

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 1:20 am

LBA - German pax have to pay more for their flights as a result, though!
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 1:33 am

BA's had that for a decade. I think you'll find SQ is 31" now a days.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 2:20 am

Hold on! If what you're all saying is true. I am shocked!

How dare they reduce the seat pitch in Y class by 1".

This is shocking.

Now can we get back to the subject please.

I am disappointed.
I will call Singapore Airlines UK tomorrow


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 2:46 am

Some airlines do offer something slightly better-AirNZ Pacific Class is 34". I'm afraid the ONLY way to better comfort is to pay what I'll admit are unaffordable Business or First Class tickets.

Or get upgraded 
 
marcelduchamp
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 2:53 am

I think the original post was questioning KLM's audacity at announcing a 31" pitch for their supposedly "improved" product. I think that measurement is still below average for your major long-haul carriers. Of course, every aircraft type within an airline can have different pitches.

Only the bigger ones such as BA, UA and NW use a 31" pitch. Also SR on their new A332s.

32" seems to be average.This would be QF, SQ, CX's Airbuses, LH, JL, EK, VS...

34" is the least common, I guess. It's found mainly on 747s only which have not been refitted with PTVs or new seats. NZ, TG. Not sure if CX has reduced it on their jumbos.

What other "biggies" are there? I'm not too sure about AF or the other American carriers.

BTW, I don't think that SQ has had the opportunity to reduce their seat pitch, even if they wanted to. The "Rainbow" upgrade in EY started as early as '96. There has been no re-configuration to add more seats since. Thus, I think it stays at 32".
 
Guest

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 3:13 am

Both ANA and Korean offer 34".
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 3:14 am

I know that SR has 32'' on all aircraft. Including the A330.

Avion
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 3:48 am

Ha-ha! Now I know...
Last week I had two Dutch colleagues visiting me, and I had to drive them around to company facilities in my car. I apologized in advance that they had to survive in my tiny little VW Golf and share the legroom - front and back - as if they were friends.
Ha, they said. It can't be worse than the KLM plane on which we arrived.
In my company we always make business trips on economy class when possible, independant on job level.
They said that my VW Golf actually had more legroom than KLM!
I said, okay - then I will charge you business class rate being passengers in my Golf.  
Cheers, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 5:49 am

This is strange. Today I visited AMS to do some spotting (at 1 devree celsius! brrrr) and I saw advertisments of their 50% stretched legroom. Ah well, must be their business class.
 
Guest

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 7:27 am

I think it's biz you are talking about !
45" pitch in economy... wow, would love to see that !  
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 7:41 am

I had a chance of flying a NW/KL DC-10 with the new biz class seats between AMS and IAD. It has 60" of pitch. The seats are kind of early 1990s vintage, but very comfortable - after sitting in coach between Bombay and AMS for 9.5 hours, this was heaven. NW's DC-10s probably have no more than 30" in coach. Hell, if it was 31" I wouldn't have known - it was cramped as hell. IF you have long legs and are over 6 ft tall, you should either pay for Biz class, or fly in the cargo hold as cargo. Its a lot more comfortable !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
nwa747-400
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 9:51 am

According to nwa.com:

the DC10-30s have 31-32 in the main cabin.

 
Carioca Canuck
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:03 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 9:57 am

The 767-300ER that I took to Brasil (Ex- Cdn Airlines now AC) had 34" of seat pitch in economy class.

 
imkeww
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 10:52 am

PAL's 747-400s *do* have PTV systems, and have at least 34" pitch with footrests. (Not inseat footrests like ANZ though).

-imk
 
CVG777
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 12:16 pm

Air France economy class on its 777 and A340 fleet had about a 33in or 34in seat pitch. I think USAirways also has their A330s configured so that economy has a 33in or 34in pitch.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 1:24 pm

KE and MH share a seat pitch of 35" each.

AirNZ have 34".

Qantas has 33".

I think it is horrible to have 31" Seat pitch. I just cannot figure out how they get Passengers to fly them.

Cheers
mikey
 
Carioca Canuck
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:03 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 3:38 pm

You guys should fly the charter called AirTransat from Canada.

If this company could get around the safety laws, they'd have you flying when standing up....forget about seat pitch !!!
 
SilverWing
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:53 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 5:55 pm

On my last flight to Beijing on KLM I also noticed how small their legroom in Economy is. On a 9 hrs flight that´s no pleasure! By the way, last year I flew Air China from Beijing to Shanghai-Pudong on one of their B 744 and the legroom in Economy was much wider than on KLM. However I don´t know the exact figures of Air China... Maybe someone can help?
 
marcelduchamp
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 6:57 pm

In response to Avion, Airnewzealand and Imkeww.
From magazines I can refer to, the figures are as such...
I also have some questions, if you could help me out.

QF - Offers a 32" pitch throughout it's fleet. Has this changed recently? // New seat design // No PTVs as yet.

NZ - The bulk of the fleet made up of 767s have either 32" or 33". 34" pitch on their 744s. // Spacemaker seat // No PTVs as yet.

MH - I only know the pitch of their 744s - 34". What is the pitch and the availability of PTVs in their fleet, such as their 777s and 333s? Are all the 744s identically fitted out? For a while, some had different configurations.

KE - Don't know much, apart from BT mag stating 34" pitch on their 744s. Have they got new seats and PTVs?
How are their language abilities?

Great to know that PR offers the best of both worlds. Pity that their reach is excruciatingly limited.



 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 7:44 pm

Korean Air offer 35" on 777 aircrafts and have finished two Aircrafts with PTV's on these type of Aircrafts.

Qantas has started to Refitt there aircraft with them same as AirNZ.

Korean Air's service is Excellent and they can speak Very good English. They can even have a English Conversation with you. There inflight entertainment and Food is also Very nice. I can't wait to fly with them again.

AirNZ has 32" on 767-200 aircraft which are getting faded out of the fleet in a Year or so. 733 have 32", 763 33" and 744 34".

Hope this helps.

Cheers
mikey

PS Qantas's 744 have about a 33" on them. They were not 32". Maybe on some aircraft they are.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Thu Jan 18, 2001 8:14 pm

It is the very sad truth that all major airlines (e.g. LH, SQ, BA, SR etc.) have a set pitch of 31 in economy class. I always say that economy is hell on longhaul flights no mater what airline.
 
Jubilee777
Posts: 502
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Fri Jan 19, 2001 9:29 am

For some figures of Y class of Asian Airlines and some other airlines, you may wanna try looking thru' Business Traveller Asia Pacific September 2000 issue. They provide not only seat pitch, but also width of seat, recline, cushion width, number of seats etc.

J777
 
Singapore 777
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: Shocking KLM Y Class Seat Pitch

Fri Jan 19, 2001 4:24 pm

SQ's seat pitch is not standard throughout all aircraft.

A310s: pretty much spacious, I'd estimate 32". No inseat footrest, no PTV system...hence you might tend to feel more comfortable.

A340s: suck suck suck! Their PTV system suck in the first place so it shouldn't be put in. Very cramped...around 31 to at most 31.5". Definitely not comparable to the seat pitch offered by the A310.

B747: Not too bad...the KrisWorld is pretty good on these planes. Seat pitch is around 31"...not too comfortable.

B777: The best so far...KrisWorld is in perfect order. Seat pitch around 32" to 33". Very comfortable plane!!!

Conclusion: A340 have to be refitted. This is not in line with their service revamp they've promised. Funny thing is: their flights are still so full...

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