SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 1:34 am

I was just wondering. How can airlines like Ansett Australia offer a 34 - 38" (I can't remember but I think it's 38") seat pitch in Y class and why some big airlines like British Airways offer only 31" (32 on 777s).

I can understand why charter airlines pack in people to 30" but it is a bit unacceptable for large airlines to do this.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 4:29 am

I have absolutely NO intention of flaming anyone here, but isn't SIA's pitch also 32"? Why isn't it, say, 36"?

Profit matters, because airlines are not non-profit organisations. They have employees, the employees' families, and (maybe to a lesser extent) the shareholders.

We can always argue that there's a middle ground, that instead of going to the extremes there's a way to make every situation win-win. But that's not always true, and when it's true people don't always manage to achieve that.

I think that's the reason. Even though you can argue that 2" extra doesn't take out too many seats, it may amount to the difference between 2 members of the same airliner family.

Of course, there's also a less important issue. The average height of people also grows over time. Maybe 31-32" was enough a while ago. People are not all of the same proportion, either.

I'm 5'7" (1.7m); my mom is definitely less than 1.6m (5'3"). About 10 years ago she flew on CX, and found it too cramped even for her. Needless to say, she's never chosen CX since (although I probably could, that BBC world service thing is really attractive).

On second thought, I'm quite used to 38" pitch now, and can't quite imagine anything below 34". It's not that there's no space for my legs. it's that when everyone lays back and sleep, the seat back in front really eats into your available space. It's trying to move past the people next to you, so you can walk around, go to the lav, etc.

P.S.
Someone tell me how many have died/been hospitalized on DVT from flying charter. I think so many people are, for a variety of reasons, not taking enough care of themselves. Maybe the condition of the cabin inflight just aggravates all the problems you've got that haven't really surfaced.

I have heard of deaths after 3,4 years of fast food (as a major part of one's diet); cancer of the lymph nodes, I think.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:30 am

I don't think anybody said SQ has 36 inch pitch? Hum... anyhow. Actually there's very little difference between most airlines pitch, it's pretty standard around 31-32 inches. Charters ex UK tend to be 28-29 inches and slightly more elsewhere.

Ansett's 38 inch pitch was slightly questionable, it was only on the upper deck, the rest was 32 inches. Today they're on the 744's offering 31 inch pitch.

A handful offer 34 inches, but almost all else 31-32.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:32 am

I wonder why you took SIA as an example?

Hmm. Yes I do agree. I just find it so weird, if airlines are going to keep up with competition like Ansett (38") for example, why don't their next door neightbours (Air NZ / Qantas) follow suit?

Anyway thank you. Couldn't ask for a better anser
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Stratifier

Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:54 am

I'm 6'4", so the legroom issue is always a serious one whenever I don't get the emergency exit row. My strategy is to stick my knees out so that the person in front can't recline the seat very far. I know it sounds kind of mean and silly, but if they recline all the way, I can't even stay in the seat without sticking my legs into the aisle...which the f/a's don't like.

Thank goodness AC has 34" in Y (I'm flying to CDG in a month).
 
777X
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:44 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 7:07 am

Well CPDC10-30, AC's seat pitch varies as well, from as little as 30" (ouch) to a spacious 34", depending on the a/c and seating config. so again very inconsistent.



 
Guest

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 7:43 am

Singapore_Air, you just can't NOT be skeptical, can you?  Laugh out loud

SIA is a good example because they appear to be one of the airlines that are at the forefront when it comes to all kinds of amenities. If seat pitch is proven to be health-related I think they'll be ready to change it.

And I say "they appear to be" because I've never flown them, so I'm judging from what I've heard around here.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:02 am

AirNZ: 744...34", 763.....33", 762......33", 733......32".

There we have it . AirNZ is still one of the best in terms of Seats and that is why so many people prefer to fly them To LAX from SYD and NZ. Ansett is owned by AirNZ so AirNZ and Ansett have the same seat pitch. The leased 744 from SQ only have 31" Seat pitch. CRAP if you ask me.

Korean air...... 777-200/300 and Malaysian 777-200 offer 35" In why class. Cosy!!

Cheers
mikey
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:43 am

I'm 6 feet tall, and 33 inches is comfortable for me (I wouldn't say roomy, but certainly not at all cramped). 31 inches is too tight. 31 inches is the average for domestic carriers, but often they fudge a little. For example, some airlines make the seating 32 inches towards the front of coach, but only 29 or 30 in the back. I know Continental, Delta, and US Airways do this on some of their planes, especially narrowbody planes. I'm sure other carriers do as well.

American is only major carrier to offer expanded legroom throughout coach, with 33-35 inches. United offers 35-36 inches in Economy Plus, but only 31-32 inches otherwise.
 
marcelduchamp
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 5:56 pm

1) AN's claim of 34" to 38" is outdated. It was for the 747-300s from SQ (In the days when the "standard" was 34"; SQ and CX used to have 34").

2) The present AN 747-400s from SQ have the same basic configuration as SQ. 32" on the main deck. 38" is for the upper deck EY cabin only.

3) Not many airlines offer an unadulterated 34" pitch in EY across the fleet. For example, top airlines like...
CX - approx. 32" across the fleet
SR - 31"/32" on their NEW A332s
BA - 31" on the 744s
QF - 32" across the board
SQ - 32" across the board, except the 777; 32" to 34"
NZ - 32"/33" on the majority of the fleet (767s/737s)

4) It seems only second tier airlines such as KE, MH and TG do a little more (But I doubt the A330s in their fleets have a 34" pitch). IMHO, the reason why they maintain a 34" pitch in EY is because they haven't spent any $$ in refurbishing their aircraft ever since the days of a standard 34" pitch in the early 90s. CX, SQ and LH reduced from 34" to 32" after refurbishment.

5) Which naturally leads to the question. New seats/PTVs or 2" of space? The airlines will undoubtedly choose the former. They want to try and make more $$ from us, from duty free and phone calls.

5) Where is it said that SQ's EY seat pitch is 31"? The Straits Times and Business Traveller state a range of 32" to 34" across the fleet.
 
imkeww
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Tue Jan 23, 2001 6:36 pm

On all of PAL 744 and A343, seats are at a generous 34".

0imk
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:21 am

Oh please startifier! It was a joke! I have to admit though it wasn't clear as I forgot to put a smiley face there.

I forgive you my dear however,
You are the weakest link
Goodbye
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 2:33 am

LOL Singapore_air.

Not a lot of people would get 'You are the weakest link - good bye' - if you've never seen Ann Robinson on British TV before...

And if you want bad seat pitches, try Delta Air Lines 777's in the rear Coach cabin on a ten hour flight. (or any length flight.) They say it's 31" but somehow no-one believes them.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
Guest

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 5:38 am

I think I get the joke... I've heard of the show!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The one they want to bring to the US and have Richard Hatch host I think...anyway.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 6:44 am

I am the strongest link
Hello

Oh no I think you'll want Ann Robinson.

I know, you'll either love and hate her or just hate her
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:24 am

Ann Robinson rules!

(Economy class seat pitch is one of her favourite subjects too!) Now that's one only the Brits will get!!
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 8:21 am

Korean Air is currently Doing it's fleet up and are keeping the 45". They have recently installed PTV's on some 777 and are now doing the 747 which offer a Pitch of 34". They are also keeping this Pitch when the PTV's are installed.

AirNZ Did their Cabins up in 98' and they still kept the 34" on the 747 but Put the pitch down on the 767 to 33" instead!!

By the way. It is a Typo on the Website. I have the Current Schedule, Maintenace and Aircrafts books right here which have seat Pitch!!

Cheers
mikey
 
Guest

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 8:53 am

I didn't knew Korean Air was installing PTVs ? On which aircraft are they starting to install them ?
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:35 am

KE PTVs on 777 and 747 initially. Eventually, all medium-long haul jets will be equipped with PTVs. I guess 330 may see PTV down the road- but don't quote me on that.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:26 am

"Ann Robinson rules!

(Economy class seat pitch is one of her favourite subjects too!) Now that's one only the Brits will get!!"


I think I agree, Ryanair, and I'm not even British! Altho I do (did?) spend a lot of time there. I think she's more up on the seat width tho - don't you remember that thing on Watchdog a few months (probably a year because I haven't been in the country for six months!) ago about how she made four people sit in three seats?? All very exciting it was.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
Eraxandaf
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 3:54 pm

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Wed Jan 24, 2001 5:06 pm

I was laughing at CPDC10-30's response.I do the same thing as I am 6'3" and I've learned how to put my knees in a position which blocks the person in front of me from going back far (if not at all).No it's not mean, it's necessary. Usually it's a smaller person who just likes the idea of putting his seat all the way back to capacity. I like to see the look on their faces as they really have no idea why it won't go back! Hey if they want to move me to J class, that's fine, otherwise I can't help it!
 
Skystar
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 3:58 pm

RE: Actual Seat Pitches

Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:56 pm

I can comfortably say that SQ's Y pitch is no greater than 32" (31-32"), having measured it just over a month ago on -SMY.

NZ has 32" on its 767-300, but 33" on its 767-200.

Ansett has never marketed itself as having 38" seat pitch on its 747-400s - in fact it had said in its very first press release that the reduction in seat pitch will have to be communicated in a favourable way to customers.

It is currently 34" on the upper deck, and 31-32" on the lower deck. For those who have an SQ and AN timetable, look at the seating plans for the lower deck (Y). They look remarkably similar...

Cheers.

Justin
 
marcelduchamp
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 10:24 pm

RE: Actual Seat Pitches

Thu Jan 25, 2001 12:39 am

Interesting, Skystar...
Where can I find a listing of AN's 744s' seat pitch?
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Thu Jan 25, 2001 1:00 am

I took a tape measure through gatwick and a man searched me. How dare he! It was metal though

I measured Air Liberté's pitch in Y and it was 30"
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Why Varying Seat Pitches In Y Class?

Thu Jan 25, 2001 1:34 am

Why can't airlines replace their seats (or get new ones with new planes) with a sort of 'cradle' design which allows you to have much more recline in the same available space?

I think ANZ might be doing this in their Y class.

And PLEASE STOP WITH THE WEAKEST LINK CRAP. I grant you the show used to be cool when it was a BBC2 'wierd culture' thing and when people used to get really upset at the humiliation - but now people just shrug their shoulders and laugh...
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

Skystar

Thu Jan 25, 2001 7:20 am

Skystar.... That is because the 747-400 are leased from SQ. That is why they are similar.

Also AirNZ's pitch on the 763 is virable. Some have 33" and others have 32". The flights to Asia use the 32" and the flights to the Pacific and USA use the 33" Seat pitch.

Cheers
mikey.

In response to the Cradle thing I think AirNZ are doing Now. While they put the PTV's in their Aircrafts.
 
Skystar
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 3:58 pm

RE: Skystar

Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:47 am

Mikey, I thought the "..." would've hinted at something re. the SQ & AN arrangements (I knew they were leased - the problems of communicating via mere text).

The Business seats are old first class seats basically, and the Y seats are SQ 744 seats with different seat covers.

Eg777er, in regards to cradling seats, it's not particularly new. SQ has them on their 777s, although with their pathetic seat pitch, for those with a bit of height, it's not that comfortable.

Marcel,

You won't find AN seat pitches anywhere on the net except for the Business seat pitch on the 744 (57"). You will have to contact AN Public Relations. As I said, the initial press release for the 744 had info on the seat pitches, but that was pulled down fairly quickly, IIRC. If you want any info, just ask me.

Cheers,

Justin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airfinglas, alggag, CHCalfonzo, deltacto, fly2lax, Google Adsense [Bot], Group51, KLASM83, RohanDXB, SOBHI51, Someone83, TheF15Ace and 163 guests