Topic Author
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Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:04 am

Why is it that parentes have no control over kid in flights. Apparently it is an accepted practise to leave your kids unattened and screeming for hours!

Surely there can be a limit of how many kids can be accomodated on a certain plane and all these kids + plus their parents could then be assembled in one closed off part of each cabinclass. Then kids could run as wild as they want, scream and burp to their hearts content and the rest of the flight could have some peace and quiet!

Why do FAs lets unruly F/J/C-class kids wonder down to Y-class! Lets them stay in the booked class and disturb pax there!

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:25 am

Get over it... it's just something you need to deal with to survive your life with as little stress as possible.

The world does not exist to provide for you, there are other people on this planet and many of them are children requiring transportation.

Why don't you stay home next time instead?


RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:41 am

It is a good idea... and truth is, I get annoyed a lot by this too, but there is nothing you can do about it really. Now I think it is horrible that an airline would let a child that is in first por business class wander into coach class, I don't think the kids should be able to wander at all, but as long as they're in theior seat, they just have to be tolerated.


I hope you don't have any babies!
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!/777x

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 am

I took a flight to Asia a few years back on a 747, in business class, with my (now ex)wife and child. There were two children who ran around the entire length of the aircraft screaming and screeching and annoying everyone. They ran up and down the steps, they tore up magazines, spilled soda on another passenger and made noise thru the entire flight. It was so bad that the purser made the parents control their children.

"Your" rotten children are not "my" problem......and no I do not want to have to put up with "your" children, especailly at 40000feet..... It is inconsiderate to other people to instill their childrens' misbehavior on others. In a restaurant or mall, you can just change yoour seat or gosomepleace else. A plane is a confined space; but that is still no excuse for such rudeness.

If you cant control your children, you should stay home.

Why was it on that plane, there must have been a dozen other (younger)children who were well behaved and two who were animals out of a cage?

BTW, I have children, who do travel (and did with me on that flight).
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 am

I don't think this site should be a kids free zone (I didn't know goats could type!)

I want babies.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 3:55 am

Taking your kids on an aircraft is just like taking them anywhere else in public. Not all kids act like brats either. You've probably flown many times with well behaved children, you just weren't aware of it because they didn't draw your attention as much as the poorly behaved ones.

As parents of 4 children (all 14 and under), my wife and I feel that it is important to teach our kids how to behave properly in public, whether in a restaurant, theater or on a 6 hour plane flight.

We have had FA's roll their eyes when they saw us coming down the jetway with our troop during pre-boarding only to congratulate us at the end of the flight on how well behaved our children were. The overall responsibility for children's behavior lies with their parents. Unfortunately, many parents don't accept that responsibility.

I fly frequently both with and without my family and understand how annoying unruly children can be. Instead of taking it out on the kids, why not address the real cause of the problem - the parents.

EyeSky  Insane
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:15 am

I do agree that parents should exercise more control over their kids. It has nothing to do with anyone hating kids, and everything to do with being considerate. Yes, it is true that children will be children, and it's difficult to keep them confined for 3 hours, much less 8. But it's still up to the parent, to instill some type of discipline in the child. I travelled frequently as a child, and I'm talking about ages 2-10, and I was NOT allowed to run around the aircraft, making a lot of noise and being a nuisance to other passengers. My mother saw to it that I sat in my seat, she took me to the bathroom whenever I needed to go, and even entertained me and answered all my questions the best way she knew how.

What's wrong with that? Why should anyone put up with another parent's lack of constraint over their child?
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:21 am

wishihadalife - It's amazing how you've posted once and have 4 users that respect you. As someone who is a "Retired Professor of Astrophysics" you are well-educated. And therfore should be a bit more accepting. Since you are retired, that says you have been teaching for a number of years and have seen many people. One would think you would be more tolerant of people that are different from yourself. This includes children and young adults and teenagers.

Anyways, there shouldn't be a kid-free area. This would be a PR nightmare for any airline. Kids need to get from point a to point b as well. And I think it is the parents that need to be reprimanded, not the kids. Maybe we should have an "air-rage" free area while we're at it.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:38 am

It's not usually the kids that are the problems, it's the parents. I was on a flight last year where a kid was playing a very loud video game without turning the sound off. The mother was oblivious to the annoyed stares she was getting by everyone sitting in close proximity. I finally called the flight attendant (I didn't want to get into it with the mother personally because if she is rude enough to allow the behavior then she probably wouldn't take too kindly to my request) anyways, I asked the flight attendant to ask the mother to turn the sound off of her kid's game. She said she would be more than happy to since it was bugging her as well. The mom was not very gracious when asked to lower the volume. Some people have absolutely no respect for others.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:47 am

Kids should be allowed to travel, but they should make a section for little kids + parents. like 3 and younger. Plus give the kid pokemon or whatever fad is out there and it will shut them up!!!
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:47 am

We ought not to have "kid free" areas, but the airlines ought to put all the families with children together. They could give the kids toys like lots of the European carriers do. Am I the first to note that it is in a kid's nature to be noisy? I was noisy and so was my sister and so was every small child on a plane during 15 years of air travel. Thus if we put the parties with small kids together, we'd only bother the families are used to the noise. Moreover, kids with other kids are more likely to be quietly entertaining than kids who are bored.

An airline could be super-profit oriented and put the high-level frequent flyers as far as possible from the kids so as to ensure that the frequent flyers had pleasant flights. That's what I would do on my carrier.

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:20 am

If I may be so blunt, grow up. Kids will be kids. Forcing them and their paying customer parents into a closed-off section in the back of the plane is dumb and unfair. If you don't like it, go drive the friendly highways. I hear Greyhound has some new "Super Friendly Fares"...

BTW- How come KL no longer exists? Was this his first post? Popular, huh?  Big grin
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:33 am

See the thing is...well the airline should make little "Kiddie Packages" that have a few toys, and some snacks. This way the kid could be kept busy instead of screaming his/her head off.

I agree however that some parents are to blame. Parents can be very rude, as well as most passengers. If the kids were kept busy, then there would be a lot less of a problem.

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 8:07 am

There is no excuse for a childs misbehavior.
The parents, as parents should, controll the child and make sure that this child is polite and will not make a nuisance of itself in public. Many years ago, my wife and my 1 year old son were travelling on TWA from JFK-LHR and my son was crying and practically screaming the whole way. This was not in his nature, and the few complaints that were passed on to me through the FA's, were apologetically accepted. So when we got to London, it turned out that my son had contracted Scarlet fever. So sometimes people cannot help their child from crying. But making noise and being unruly--no excuse. I totally agree with the idea of keeping families close to each other and near the back of the aircraft (but not in a cordend off section).


Qantas-the spirit of Australia

p.s: most airlines provide childrens packs--Qantas has ones called "Max Packs" which my kids love.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 8:08 am

Just a note from the other side of the fence - I was a very frequent traveller at a young age and I completed my first million miles flown by the age of 15. However, if my mom is to be believed, I never gave the slightest hint of trouble on a plane (except when I bawled after jumpseating into KaiTak aged 7, but that was undertstandable). So maybe its not all kids who are that way....
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:15 am


Where did you go??? I am 15 and I thought I traveled a good deal, but 1,000,000 miles??? THat's incredible-I am just passing 100,000 miles.

Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:25 am

Leave the kids out of A.net??? You must really be an old fart. PaLEASE spare us of your childish complaints... many "kids" that use this site know a shitload more than you do wishihadalife. If you don't like the people on this site - you can leave - nobody will give a damn; I promise you!

*Now on to the REAL issue - Kids will be kids. But I agree that parents should be more responsible for their children. But segregated seating??? That'll be the day!

Kindest Regards,
 SmileQantasA330 Smile
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:28 am

USAFHummer - I'm an airline brat - dad is with an airline and was posted all over the place and I essentially commuted between India (where I was officially in school) and LHR when he was posted there. Also when he was posted in PER - same deal. So it wasnt too hard to rack up the miles.

Strange addendum though - I never travelled on a paid ticket till I was 19. The ultimate in non-rev!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
Matt D
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:40 am

I've discovered that a slingshot and some marbles fired into the back of the kids head once or twice works great. Not for shutting the kid up, but for watching him/her scream in the agony they are making everyone else suffer. Then if I happen to be spotted, quick as a flash, the evidence gets thrown under the seat hard enough to land next to the person in front of me so it makes him look like the perpetrator.
Matt D
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:55 am

I've also heard that tranquilizer darts fired into them are quite effective. This is of course the same technique used by wildlife officials when they need to put a homing device on wildlife such as bears, lions, and rhinoceroses.
I have yet to try this method myself. For some reason I'm told that the people at the security checkpoints would frown on them.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!/Matt D

Wed Jan 24, 2001 11:23 am

Actually, I have heard that there are such things as "Baby Valium" and Ritalin...and of course "parenting" classes for those inconsiderate boobs who "spawn" "brats...."

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:23 pm

Well, babies will be babies and kids will be kids. Parents might not be always responsible for the behavior of their kids. But we see it all over the place - in nice restaurants, in movie theaters, in rollercoaster parks. So it's not like anything will be done about it.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:12 pm

I think any kind of banning or segregation of people with kids would cause a PR uproar...bad for business. But also, not every kid is gonna be a brat onboard--only ones whose parents can't control them. I've flown *alone* (UM) since I was 7 or 8....I was never a problem, I stayed in my seat glued to the window!

Plus give the kid pokemon or whatever fad is out there and it will shut them up!!
And then their parents will go bonkers. ANA Pokejet, anyone?

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:30 pm

I really do not think that passengers with children should be segregated on board. They, after all, have also purchased tickets for the flights (usually) and thus are entitled to select the seats which they desire. It is also true that not every child who boards a plane is badly behaved - in fact, relatively few are. I have flown many times and do not remember any situation in which a child (including myself) was particularly troublesome.

I cannot condone the really unruly behaviour of children on board planes which some of you mention, though. The hard truth is that such behaviour is a reflection of the parenting (or lack of it) which the children have had. Such is a sign of the parlous state of morals and discipline in today's world. I have in fact heard about instances on flights in which adults (including popular entertainers) have behaved very badly on scheduled flights. Is it any wonder that impressionable children emulate that behaviour?

Hop to it, fly for life!

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 2:21 pm

What are you guys talking about? I am especially referring to the one who started this topic. Children are not usually bad. I bet some of you guys remember when u were bratty kids. Children usually do not act bad. If they do, it's only because that's what every child goes through just like when puppies chew things they can't grow out of it until they are adults.

Marc Beck


RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 2:41 pm

I'm a fairly frequent flier and have flown overseas many times; I've never seen this sort of behavior on board an aircraft. Sure, kids kick your seat; but they do stop after a while, and sure, babies cry, but usually only during the descent when the air pressure is making their ears hurt.

I don't mind children usually. It's the people reclining all the way back into my lap that I mind, especially when it prevents me from leaving my seat to use the bathroom, which I do frequently.

I think coach seats should be locked upright so they can't recline, but that's my opinion.  Wink/being sarcastic
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Wed Jan 24, 2001 11:52 pm

Matt D - I hope you were joking Big grin

As a parent of a two year old myself, I agree that it's the parent's responsibility to make sure their kids are well behaved. It's as simple as this; if a kid is happy, then usually they won't misbehave.

And even if there at a age where they might not know right from wrong there are things that a parent can do to make sure they are happy.

My daughter took her first flight when she was four months old, since then she's taken seven RT flights (a total of 20 segments). In that time we've learned alot about how to keep her pacified:

1. Schedule the trip around her bed time/nap time.

2. Feed her a bottle (when she was younger, now it's a sippy cup) or give her a pacifier on ascent/descent.

3. Give her Benadryl! A teaspoon before getting on board the plane does wonders. It's a mild sedative so usually she'll sleep after she takes it. Plus supposedly it helps with the pressure on the ears

4. Bring plenty of toys and snacks!

5. Most airlines will allow families with small children to board first; we take full advantage of this. It takes awhile to get them settled; if there's not too many people around, it creates a lot less stress on her and mommy and daddy.

6. Now that she walks, let her take a walk up and down the aisle (with me or her mother, of course) a couple of times.

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!/A Kelly728

Thu Jan 25, 2001 12:04 am

Excellent advice! It is nice to know that there are considerate and caring parents!

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Jan 25, 2001 2:01 am

Wasn´t "KL" the guy who called Johan "pocket-Stalin" or something like that? Oh well, I guess that´s a relatively safe ticket out, huh?
Back to the topic, babies are usually "segregated" at the front of the cabin, aren´t they? Because there are facilities where to hang the baskets and such. When these cry and make noises - oh well, that´s something you have to accept, beacuse of some ear problems, I think.
As for older kids running amok: get them to the cockpit! They come back after half an hour or so with big round eyes and are so impressed they shut up the rest of the flight. I´ve witnessed that.
Oh, and by the way, if nothing helps, why don´t you just tell them to continue playing outside? Big grin

Daniel Smile

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Jan 25, 2001 6:28 am

How about give each kid under a certain age a sleeping pill...! JK!
I agree with N-156F... Kids will be kids, if you dont like the commosion hit the highway!
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 10:53 am

i could not agree more with eyesky and akelley728.

living in SIN with relatives in remote places in europe, we have also made our fair share of experinec travelling with our two girls (now aged 4 and 17 months).

all in all i have to agree with eyesky in regards to parents being direcvtly responsible for the upbringing and thereout resulting behavious of the kids.
the little hints by akelley728 also help quite a deal.

in general i have to say that most kids are better on board than your average traveller with a few drinks in his / her system
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 12:44 pm

Hey I would be really interested to see how many of the people who replied in favor of kids being bad on flights where once kids as well. I am pretty sure that is close to 100%. LAY OFF!!!!!! I am a pilot for a U.S. Carrier and I know that the people who said that kids sucks areant all that great themselves. You tend to complain if you dont get your way, demand better and compensation. Let me tell you something it always puts a smile on my face when a child comes up to me after the flight and slaps me a high 5 or ask to sit in a seat. I love to see the excitement in there faces. Everyone complains that kids cry and are fussy when in flight and that is because they sometimes have trouble equilizing there ears. STOP YOUR CRYING!!!!!!!!!!!AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE, thats all I have to say
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RE: TEEN-AGER Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:56 pm

forget the "kids" ; Society needs to set up ALCs (Adolescent Learning Chambers) in every community. Some sort ratio has to be worked out of having one every number of square miles based on the population.
Basically when a kid hits puberty..they need to be sent away to these chambers... all chambers will be equiped with self help information to explain the obnoxious phase they are going through.... some encyclopedias will be included and computers for correspondence in Jr High and High School education...[the internet will NOT be available].... Once their acne clears up and it is determined that they will not be an annoyance to society at large, they will be released to the general population...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 9:12 pm

A am amazed at how many people here are suggesting drugging their kids before a flight(The Benadryl suggestion excepted). Did anybody see those storys how elementry school kids are selling their Ridlin pills to other students for money. Sounds like a gateway drug to me!!!

Anyhow if parents wheren't afraid of getting arrested for diciplining their kids then we wouldn't have the problems that we have now. Dr. Spock be damm, a quick swat does wonders for behavior problems. And a kind that knows that you don't have a problem with it, does even more.

Sometime the threat is a greater deterent then the actual action. It depends on how much fear the kid has of it.

RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 10:47 pm

Hey man I agree with you completely! Get this, I was on a flight once, early AM, and this lady gives her child her key chain to play with otherwise she cried and yelled..yknow.. THE KEY CHAIN HAD A RAPE-WHISTLE on it and the this lady did NOTHING as the child blew this whistle repeatedly! Finally another passenger, well let's just say he spoke up! As far as limiting the amount of children.. that will never happen... lawsuits would fly from angry parents and exceptions would be granted by the airlines continuously to their "SUPER-DUPER-ULTRA-FLYER-ELITE-ARAMA" members. And doesn't it just bite that you cannot make a comment on this board and not get respectful answers! Those yelling children.....they only get taller!
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:15 pm

How about we make the world a kid free zone!?!?!?!? This is a rediculous post. You can't make anything child free!!!
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:30 pm

I've gotten a number of compliments on how 'well-behaved' our daughter was after a flight was completed. What these people don't see is the total exhaustion on her parent's faces on trying to keep her happy!  Sleepy

I actually support having a seperate area on a plane for families. When we fly with our daughter, we always choose seats towards the back of the plane (even row 29 on an MD-80 on a recent EWR-DEN leg - boy was that loud!).

I'm a frequent business traveler myself, and I know how annoying it can be if there is a child in the row behind me screaming his/her head off when you're trying to get some work done. However, before I start thinking all sorts of bad thoughts, I take a good look at the parents - are they doing all they can to make this child happy? If they are, then I know that they're trying their best, and I simply do my best to shut out the noise. I simply accept it as a fact of life, and go on with my business.

Recently I was on DEN - EWR and there was an infant a few rows behind me who cried the entire trip. The whole time the mother was holding him, rocking him, singing to him, trying to feed him, walking him up and down the plane. I felt very sorry for her, but know there was nothing much she could do (I've been in her position).

After we landed I had a brief conversation with her - you could tell she was totally exhausted from trying to keep her boy quiet. I told her I completely understood, gave her the benadryl suggestion, and wished her well on their next flight. She was completely relieved after the conversation, simply because someone else understood what she was going through.

Now to all you kids out there in airliners.net land, before you judge a parent/infant/child remember the old Indian saying: "Don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their mocassins."

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!/AKelley728

Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:47 pm

Once agian more words of wisdom.

I think most of the people here will agree with you if they see a parent making an effort to keep their child tranquil.

However, there are many times when parents just let their children run amok with absolutely no intervention on their part. (I was on an ATL-LAX flight once that was 6 hours hours of shrieking and screaming up and down the aisles and it went on unabated while the parents were getting good and drunk....how would you feel after siing that?) Thats what makes passengers angry and call out for Baby Valium and soundproof booths.

Actually not all "children" on planes are of the "peanut gallery" set. Get a few drinks in someone and you have great potential for primitive behavior rivaling that of the most cholic of children...LOL
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:38 am

I think why kids go wild on planes is because it is boring to sit on a plane an wacth movies that are mainly for adults. 747-451, the kids on your flight to Asia might of been bad because they were bored out of their mind. Since the flight is a long one other children were probably asleep on the flight.

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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Feb 15, 2001 3:42 am

Ah yes, blame the airline for only showing movies that are mainly for adults.

It's easy to blame the airline, but you're shifting the blame away from the parents again. If the child is younger, there are plenty of small toys, games, coloring books, etc. that you can bring in your carry-on to amuse the child (my daughter's favorite is play-doh). Older children can be amused for many hours with a Game-boy or something similar.

If I'm on a long-haul flight with my daughter, I would choose an airline that PTVs. Most PTVs will have one channel devoted to either kids stuff or at the least 'family fare' along with a good assortment of games. Most airline websites will list the selections available on their PTVs.

Again, it takes some effort on the parent's part to pack a few extra toys in their carry-on or do the research on the PTVs, but it's well worth it, not only to me, but to my fellow passengers.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Feb 15, 2001 5:14 am

Perhaps not a "kid-free zone", but "clueless brat with their equally clueless parent" zone.
As LoveField and others have noted, it ain't the child it is their parents.

When I was young, there was no way *no way* I'd ever be allowed to kick the seat in front of me or play with a whistle. This is indicative of a general trend you see in restaurants, theaters, etc.

PS, my parents weren't disciplinarians, either.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Feb 15, 2001 5:45 am

Last time I was traveling with my 7 year old son it was on a flight from Amsterdam to Vancouver. It is,let's say a 10 hour trip, so it was nearly impossible to oblige him to sitdown during the entire trip! But it is the responsiblity of the parents to have a look at their children what they are doing and to have them under control so I didn't allow him to run and to do some other funny things with the passengers sitting around us  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

So next time when you are traveling take it easy and keep cool guys our children are no little monsters but our future  Smokin cool
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RE: Kid Free Zones Please!

Thu Feb 15, 2001 9:26 am

I have been on these flights, with some passengers being 15 years old, and making me mad (I would use stronger language, but I obey the rules...) They blow off the FAs completely, to the point where I had to sympathize with the FAs. I think that if someone (this goes for all passengers - drunks can be just as bad, I've dealt with those too...) is creating heck for the other passengers, there should be a small (2-3 row section) at the rear of the aircraft so certain passengers don't get mad.