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CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 3:11 am

I just did YYZ-MIA and CO and a few questions that need to be answered.

First, how come I never- NEVER see a widebody on domestic routes? I've seen DC-10 on IAH-LAX on a few occasions, but never have I seen or been on 767 domestically. I know that CO is thrifty enough to send 757 to Europe, but wouldn't a transcon flight- say, EWR-LAX deserve a 767 service? Whenever I fly connect out of EWR to SFO, LAX or SJC, I'm always on 73X. Is it like Delta where CO is experiencing a widebody shortage or is it their strategic plan to use narrowbodies on as many routes as possible? This probably has been asked a few times but nothing came up on search, so any answers or links to previous discussions will be greatly appreciated.

Also, I'm missing a one bit of info on CO. I remember the days when CO was the THE worst airline in US only a few years ago, and AC stepped in to rescue them- at least financially. Whatever happend to that agreement and what were the terms of the termination on the agreement? And why was it terminated? I've somehow missed out on this subject and if anyone can fill in the gap, thanks in advance.

I'll probably post a trip report when I do MIA-YYZ and YYZ-LAX-YYZ later this month.

RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:45 am

Well the first part is easy to answer. It is better to fill a plane with less seats with higher fares than fly around empty with a big airplane, or lower your ticket prices to fill those empty seats. It keeps your RASM numbers up and those are the numbers that Wall Street analysts look at.

It is the same strategy as AA across the Atlantic. Filling a 767 with passengers is better than flying empty jumbos in the winter time. In the long run you are better off.

However, the new 757-300 are about the same size as the old DC-10's and have a lower seat mile cost and better fuel economy. When CO gets the 753 expect those to go on the EWR transcon and Florida routes.

You also have to look at gate space etc. LAX is tight for widebodies as CO has to share some gates with UA and more than one widebody and they may have to block out another gate for loading. Plus the 73NG's have the in-flight movies and the same pitch seat so the passengers should not notice any difference. One big problem is the lavs. On a 5 hour flight apparently the lines to the two toilets in the back get really back uped. With only one asile and 150 people it gets a little uncomfortable. I have heard that they will start installing mid compartment lavs in the 738 to help with that problem.

I would expect that as some more 767's come in they will have some more presence on the transcon routes. But I would wait a few years.

On Air Canada, I don't remember all of the details but the AC sold out their shares of CO (and made a small fortune) to Air Partners (Bonderman). I think. AC then went along with UA to form Star so the code share realtionship ended with CO. Bonderman then sold his interest to Northwest (again a small fortune) and here we are today. Sorry I am not more helpful

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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:59 am

As DC-10s have been freed from European routes, I've seen quite a few of them on EWR-IAH-LAX/SFO (and return) runs.

Yes, CO does fly the 767s domestically, mostly on EWR-IAH-EWR runs as tags off of European runs. You can definately book just the EWR-IAH (or IAH-EWR) segment if you want, in fact three weeks ago I was on a 762 from EWR-IAH. Boy was that a great flight!

I see on CO's schedule that a 764 is going to take the place of the 762 that's been doing the EWR-IAH run starting on Feb 15th. Also a 762 is going to be put on the IAH-SFO run starting March 2nd.

As for transcons, in response to demand to put a widebody on those routes (EWR - LAX/SFO) a 762 is going to be put on EWR-SFO in May and EWR-LAX will see one in August.
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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 5:06 am


Here is a previous post from a CO pilot answering some of your questions.

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Lav Relief Is Coming

Sat Feb 03, 2001 5:31 am

A forth lav is to be intalled on all CO 738s starting this year. I'm going to assume (and we all know what happens when you Ass..U..Me..) that the 24 38s and 9s scheduled for delivery will come so equipped. But just how long it will require to install them on the existing 58 738s is a '??'.
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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:36 am

Newark to Orlando will be temporarily served by a 767-200 for the summertime. Continental at the moment has way more DC-10s than it needs for the permanent DC-10 routes that it flies. These are just randomly being placed on some Houston-West Coast runs before they are sold off, but by the end of the year most of them will be gone.

Continental will use some 767s on domestic routes just for the purpose of doing something with them insted of them just sitting at Newark/Houston. Routes such as:


will be flown. They migh not have the same flt # all the way from GRU to SFO, for example, but if you look at the schedules, those flight times fit perfectly considering the hours that it would be sitting on the runway vs. continuing onto San Fran.
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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:42 am

The 762s going west coast are the new 762s or the older ones?
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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 8:56 am

What older 767-200s? All of Continental's 762s are less than two months old.
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RE: CO Questions

Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:02 am


With all these extra DC-10's why don't they use them for EWR-Florida during Presidents Weekend?
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What Happened To AC...

Sat Feb 03, 2001 3:19 pm

As I recall, Air Canada sold its Continental shares when they joined the Star Alliance. Air Partners eventually sold their shares to Northwest as part of that alliance, and those shares have been sold back to Continental in exchange for those B shares with the special voting privileges attached to them...
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RE: David

Sat Feb 03, 2001 10:59 pm

I really don't know why the DC-10s aren't used down to Florida. I think it's because Continental has more of a monopoly on Houston-West Coast, while airlines like Delta, American, US Airways, and JetBlue all compete aout of all three NY airports to Florida. Continental, however, operates some International-Configured 757s into Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, and Orlando which feature the BusinessFirst cabin.
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RE: CO Questions

Sun Feb 04, 2001 4:55 am

Is CO really installing lavs in mid cabin on the 738s? How many seats will that take away? How is that going to look a lav, randomly in the middle of seats, weird.
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RE: David

Mon Feb 05, 2001 12:45 am

We don't run widebodies like that simply because we don't have them. It would be nice to run a DC-10 or a 767 CLE-ORD as UA has done in the past, but UA, DL, AA and NW have widebodies coming out of their ying-yang, and can do that. We can't. We place them where they make the most sense-and that means almost primarily on international routes. As for the -10, I think the biggest reason you don't see them on domestic is simple-as we acquire 767-400's and -200's, we're simply phaising out the -10's. The primary plane on EWR-Florida will soon be the 757-300, which I believe we start acquiring early next year. You will see some 767-200's and -400's on domestic routes, but those routes are temporary for the plane, as their used as "training" runs for the pilots who will be driving those new birds.
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More Lavs.....

Mon Feb 05, 2001 3:48 am

The new lav will be located at the bulkhead between F/C and Y/C. The existing seating is 14/141, the new (so I've been told) is to be 18/132... a net loss of five seats.
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RE: CO Questions

Mon Feb 05, 2001 5:55 am

It would make sense to me for CO to hang on to the DC-10s. I mean if they have a widebody shortage why phase out the 10's when the 764's are on their way in?


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