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Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:01 am

I know that DL and AA bought 741's and eventually returned them (DL much more quickly) but then AA reinstatred some SP service in 1987 for a few years. Why dont they use the planes anymore or order new ones? I don't think their load factors are too low, (or are they?). Here's a wild idea a WN or TZ 747, now that would be awesome, but unfortunately, will Never happen. Any thoughts?

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BH346
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:06 am

The low factors were low. That's why they were taken out of service. (I'm pretty sure that was why. If I am wrong feel free to correct me)

BH346
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conair
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:11 am

As far as I remember the three American A/L B747SP's were a stopgap measure for use on their newly acquired transatlantic routes back in 1991 until they got deliveries of the MD11's and additional B767 aircraft.
 
baec777
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:19 am

American. Delta both staying with what they got right now, the Triple 7s (777s) is much enough for them at the moment.

AA, DL will not need those Boeing 744s right now until they have a very high load factors. It doesn't have to be like United or Northwest these days.

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ba319-131
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 8:35 am

Neither AA or DL have any need for the 744.They are happy to run higher frequency's with 767/777/AB6 planes than fewer 744 flights.

In addition the twins are more economical to run,especially in the winter season when the trans atlantic routes suffer from a drop in demand.

I would bet my last $ that neither DL or AA will ever buy the 744.

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Art at ISP
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:07 am

Delta really never planned to operate the 747. They needed them to compete in the early seventies because of serious delays (RR bankruptcy) in the delivery of the L-1011. They leased 5 747's from Pan Am I believe, and those aircraft were delivered right from Boeing (hence the -132 designation). ( I could be wrong with the details, but I know that thje DL 747's wound up with PA).

American Airlines dumped the 747's the first time due to low load factors. As more DC-10's came on line the 747's were removed from service. Bob Crandall has always hated the 747, and with the exception of a brief time in 1984 with JFK-LAX and with the SP-s they were gone.

I believe Don Carty has inherited his ex boss's dislike for the 747 so I doubt you'll ever see a 744 in AA livery. Also the only way we're likely to see a 744 in DL colors would be for them to take over NW.

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RayChuang
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:09 am

If I remember it, AA did get a bunch of ex-Pan Am 747SP's in the latter half of the 1980's for their DFW to Europe and DFW-NRT routes for a number of years until the MD-11 became available.

Unfortunately, the MD-11's proved a bit short on range, and AA didn't buy as many as McD wanted. Small wonder why AA was one of the first airlines to get the 777-200ER when Boeing made it available--and AA could end up with over 50 772ER's for their international operations.
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:16 am

Delta did buy the 747s from Boeing, and BTW they were the 1st Boeings Delta ever ordered (becasue CE Woolman wouldnt buy a boeing to save his soul).
They were traded back to Beoing in a 727 deal and ended up with PanAm

the AA 747SPs came from TWA when AA bought the LHR routes.
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redraider
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:39 am

AA got the ex TWA SP's when they began DFW-Tokyo service in the late 80's.

They only got 2 as well.
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blink182
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:40 am

I believed that AA operated the SPs into the early 90s. I think that when they bought the SEA-NRT route, they flew the SP on it forawhile because there weren't enough MD-11s in the fleet yet.
Today, American and Delta don't need the 747. Both airlines are fine and doing well with 777s and untill they get enough asian routes, I doubt we will see a 747 in either airlines fleet. If either airline were to order the 747, I would say AA. If the AA/TWA merger goes through, AA will operate a lot of flights to Asia that TWA currently own the rights to, but don't operate. Even then, I think AA will be better off flying 777's to Asia. They operate them to Osaka,and Tokyo, and the 777 does very well on the route, AA is going to launch Taipei service, so lets see if the 777 does its job there.
If you look in the history books, the 747 has actually put many small airlines out of business, because they were too expensive to operate, and the loads weren't high enough. Ward Air, Nationair,Caledonian are just a few of those. PAN AM also got in trouble with the 747 too. The routes they operated needed an A310 or A300, but they put a 747 on the route and that airline is no longer around.
rgds,
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toxtethogrady
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The Stupidity Of Both Managements!

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:46 am

They both committed for the MD-11, thinking the 747-400 was a bad fit for their markets. Boy, did they kick themselves later. Now both are replacing the MD-11 with the 777...
 
redraider
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:51 am

The 744 is still a bad fit for their markets.
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Guest

RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Mon Feb 05, 2001 1:27 pm

Yeah, It seems doubtful we'll the 744 at DL or AA. But hey you never know.

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toxtethogrady
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Yes, AA And DL Are Grateful The 777 Came...

Mon Feb 05, 2001 1:30 pm

...so they could ditch their MD-11's. Otherwise, they'd have a problem (whether to buy Airbus or not...)
 
orlo3
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RE: Why No DL Or AA 747's Anymore?

Tue Feb 06, 2001 3:27 am

On a visit to a 767 cockpit after a delta flight into Tampa, the captain told me that Delta was rumored to be looking into the 747-400 for expansion into China.

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