cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 2:02 am

All politics aside (I know what I think anyway), how are loads on El Al affected since the beginning of the Al Aqsa Intafada? Last two times I've been through LHR I've only seen LY 757s, whereas it used to be mostly 747s (767s were the smallest a/c). I know it's winter but I can't believe any tourists are going there at the moment or planning to in 2001. VFR and ethnic traffic probably holding up reasonably, and I bet there's a lot of journos / politicians / etc heading for the action, but it must be having quite an affect. Haven't Israir or someone deferred some deliveries or leased out some a/c recently? Anyone know anything?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
rajno1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:17 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 2:10 am

For obvious reasons non-essential travel to Israel is at a minimum. I do recall reading somewhere that El Al were cutting down on flights to the US as a result, and I guess this explains the smaller planes at LHR.

Also, now that Sharon has been elected, I can't really see the situation getting better for the airline.
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 4:08 am

Hey Cedarjet.

By searching a bit with the search engine, i'm sure you would have find the answers you are looking for.
Anyway i dont mind helping you with that....

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/343773/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/383067/

El Al's loads are not so great as they used to be, But the company is hendeling with the situation ok.
The airline uses the 737 as its horse-working a/c at the moment to keep the high loads.
The airline starts flying the new 777 next week to NYC.
While capacity to most of the western destination was reduced, the capacity to the Far East was increased by 100% (!).

El Al schedules to the F. East used to be:
1 weekly TLV-HKG 767
1 weekly TLV-BOM-HKG 747
2 weekly TLV-BOM-BKK 747
1 weekly TLV-PEK 767
1 weekly TLV-BKK 747.
1 weekly TLV-DEL 767

Today's schdules:
4 weekly TLV-BKK 747/744
2 weekly TLV-HKG 744
3 weekly TLV-BOM 767/757
2 weekly TLV-PEK 767
1 weekly TLV-DEL 767
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 4:12 am

Well, all politics aside, (I too, know my view on the topic), I think that yes this is a pretty hard time for LY. European tourist traffic has falled off dramatically, but LY has refused to lower fares. Probably a good thing, because lower fares won't encoruage travellers to visit amidst the terror.

Anyway, I know El Al 001 can better illustrate this, but LY has downsized its aircraft to Europe mainly flying 738s and 752s. I assumed once the 772s start arriving, we will see those in America in place of the 747s flying now.

Don't remember anything about Israir or Arkia deffering deliveries. Arkia only ordered about 2 or 3 753s and Israir recently (but prior to the current troubles) upgraded from a 73G to a 738.

Lets hope for peace.
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:00 am

Hi

out of FRA, LY and LH loads on the TLV flights have gone down sharply. Usually seat load factors on those flights are alomost 80% year round! now it is far less.
Most of LY's flights to FRA are now operated with the 737.

So coming back to the question of Cedarjet, yes the problems have a big impact on LY.

Rgds
Amir
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:06 am

So what is EL AL doing with its 747 fleet? Are they wet leasing it somewhere?
 
a380
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 11:51 pm

LY In HKG

Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:29 am

Does LY have good load factor at HKG? Or other Asian destinations in general?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:35 am

El Al 001 (thanks for the links btw) and TWAneedsNOhelp, I suspect our views on the source of the conflict may differ but TW's closing sentiment is one shared by all. Well said.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 7:55 am

Arkia is offering to lease one of its 3 757-300's to another airline, and sell 2 737-200's (they were replaced with ATR-72's on the Tel-Aviv - Eilat route), thats after they reduced their working week to 4 days.
LY sold one of its 747 classics (4X-AXD) to another airline, another 747-200 (4X-AXB)will be used for spare parts. Those 747-200's will be replaced by LY's new 777-200ER's.

-Does anybody knows if Arkia found someone to lease the 753 to?

-When did Israir upgraded their 737-700 to 737-800's? How many of those do they have now?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Thu Feb 15, 2001 2:03 pm

Cedarjet,

 Smile

Take care my friend.

rgds
russell
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:36 am

Which brings me to my next question... Why is capacity needed to Asia - Hong Kong and Bangkok et al - all of a sudden? Jews don't have historic or cultural links there, and they are not cities that generate a lot of outbound tourist traffic like Japan. Surely Asians are no more willing to fly to a war zone than Europeans or Americans? So who is buying the seats?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:41 am

Cedarjet, I guess it's because of the lack of holiday destinations in the Far East available to Israelis. Normally the tourist choice would be split between Thailand and Hong Kong because Malaysia does not grant entry to Israeli passport holders. I assume that Indonesia is the same. So volume will be high on the Israeli-friendly countries.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 9:09 am

I tend to think its not so much holiday traffic as it is business. Neither Indonesia nor Malaysia place any restrictions on Israeli citizens entrance, however, with an 88% Islamic population in Indonesia, militant rebels, and a depressed economy, Indonesia isn't the hottest travel destination for Israelis. Indonesia, besides the Aceh mess, is in serious trouble and radical Islamic factions are attempting to turn the country into a strict Islamic state with restrictions on alcohol and nightlife. Yeah, I dont think Israelis see any need to visit this archipeligo.

Malaysia, on the other hand is significantly more stable, and while always lite, Malaysia is not much of a draw for Israeli tourist dollars.

However, Israel's burgeoning high tech industry has seen a tremendous rise in the exchange of people, technology, and products with Japan and China. So, while your right the Jewish people don't have prolific links to the far east, this is certainly more about capitalism and investment than anything else.

rgds
russ
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 6:47 pm

I'm sure if you check with the Malaysian embassy that Israeli passport holders are not allowed to enter Malaysia. I know this was the case 6 months ago, but of course things might have changed (although unlikely).
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:06 pm

Malaysia still does not grant entry to Israeli passport holders
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:43 pm

Hi,

Actually i think that its a combination of both: Leisure trafic and business hi-tec pax.

Attn. Ryanb741: Entry to Malaysia is def. not possible for holders of Israeli Passports.

Rgds
Amir
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:51 pm

Sorry, still don't get it. Investment in Israeli business is plummeting in the face of the hostilities, why would Asian companies suddenly start investing? The future viability of the country as a going concern is far from clear, so I find it hard to believe that the redeployment of the fleet is in response to rising Asian business traffic. Why didn't LY lay on the extra frequencies a few years ago when it looked like Israel and Palestine was going to 'settle out of court'? I bet there was a lot more trade and investment compared to now and the immediate future. Who is on the flights? And has there been any Israelis leaving the country to escape the escalating troubles? Going to stay with relatives in London, NY etc? I'd be tempted to get out of town for a while.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

Cedarjet

Fri Feb 16, 2001 10:54 pm

Hi Cedarjet,

i think that it is not really the issue of asian companies investing in IL. What i notice is that especially israeli Hi-Tec companies are going abroad to the Hi-Tech centers to be closer to the 'Market' and to generate new funds.
For instance in the US there have been many IPO's at the NASDAQ and even in Germany (Neuer Market) a highflyier this year was Orad Tec.

As for Coach travellers. Some asian destinations are getting more and more poplar and quite inexpensive!

Take care
Rgds
amir
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Feb 16, 2001 11:05 pm

I'm surprised at the extent of LY's penetratrion into the UK market. Not only do they fly to LHR, but they also fly into MAN and STN, and I haven't heard them talking about pulling out either!!

Don't know what they use to STN, but flew in with their 757 to MAN in January.

Is LY still owned by the Government, and would privatisation mean LY would be free to fly on the Sabbath??

I know this is digressing from the main topic, but I'm curious, as I know the Sabbath rule incurs heavy financial penalties for them.
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:36 am

I still can't find any evidence (online that is) of Malaysia denying Israeli passport holders entry.... I wouldn't be surprised if its true, it would be expected in such a society, but I would like to see something in writing from some official or semi-official source.

Cedarjet, investment in Israeli companies is not plummeting. Toursit traffic is of course, but the Israeli high-tech industry is booming. Amir is correct, however, that a large number of Israeli companies have set up offices and moved their stock from the Tel Aviv exchange to those in the US and Europe. In fact, more Israeli companies went public last year in the USA than companies from any other country. Firms such as Checkpoint Technology, Marabalis, creator of ICQ (now part of AOL), Akamai, and many many others have moved out of Israel in search of western investment. Asian investment also at a stunning all time high is uniterrupted.

rgds
russ
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:38 am

one more thing....

Cedarjet...

".....The future viability of the country as a going concern is far from clear...."

Your kidding right?
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:43 am

The only places where I have seen that Malaysia forbids entry to Israelis in in the Lonely Planet guides, as well as towards the end of a flight BKK-KUL where everyone gets handed out an immigration form (the ones with the warning 'Death for drug traffickers under Malaysian Law'. Imagine being an Israeli, and the first time you find out that you're not allowed to enter is just before you land! It's okay for us Brits!

Also, another annoying thing is that you will be forbidden entry to Malaysia (and most Arab countries) if you simply have an Israeli Immigration stamp in your passport, or if they can prove that you have visited Israel. This simply means that I can never go to Israel (not that I have any particular desire to go there - I was born in the United Arab emirates). But if I ever needed to go there on business, I would need another passport.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
conair
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2000 9:41 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:07 am

I can remember reading about the ban on Israeli passport holders entering Malaysia in the Malaysian Airlines inflight magazine allthough it was a few years ago. Correct me if i'm wrong but I seem to remember reading a few years ago when there were simillar troubles that the Israeli's were recruiting workers from Thailand and other Countries to replace the Palestinian workforce who couldn't enter Israel at the time due to security restriction's.

Conair
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

Ryanb741 said it right to the point.
It is somehow understandable that
Israeli pass-holders are denied entry
into most Muslim/Arab countries.
What do you expect if there are not
even diplomatic relations to begin
with?? The "Israeli" state isn't officially
recognized by these countries' governments
and the minds of their populations, and so
do their bretherns in the "occupied" lands.
I don't this is very difficult to grasp.
Kindest regards,
Advancedkid
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:24 am

The impression about inward investment suffering recently is from a few news reports on CNN etc, but it's just that, an impression.

And TWAneedsNOhelp, sorry to say, I am not kidding.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:25 am

You guys don't have a clue do you?

Cedarjet, you think this is the first time Israel has experienced intransigence and trouble from its lovely neighbors? For 50 years, the Arabs have been attempting to destroy Israel and all they have accomplished is losing the west bank, gaza stip, golan heights, and tons of money in destroyed equipment. Not to mention thousands of soldiers.

I mean do the dates May 1948, October 1956, June 5-10 1967, and October 1973 mean anything to you? Have the Arabs been able to accomplish anything besides cowardly terror attacks? haha, I don't mean to sound arrogant, but the idea that Israel will be destroyed was given up 22 years ago when Egypt agreed to peace. Jordan followed up several years ago, and as for Syria, dude they've got a lot more to worry about (crumbling economy, health, infrastructure, oil prod. falling off, no water, etc...) than their neighbor to the southwest.

So I don't mean to laugh at you, but welcome to the new millenium. Frankly, I'm worried about the Arab region once oil starts running out, or alternative fuels become a viable alternative. Than you guys will learn what real work is all about.  Smile

peace,
russell

PS: That bus attack the other day, no offense, but that said so much about you guys.
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:41 am

Please leave political discussion as much as possible OUT of discussions on this particular board.
If you want to have an Arab vs. Israeli discussion, do so on the NON-AVIATION board.

Just to clear up another detail;
Ryan, you mentioned the fact that pax with Israeli stamps are not allowed entry into certain Arab countries.
HOWEVER, if you are a regular business or leisure traveller, you can ask Israeli immigration NOT to stamp your passport.

I have travelled to Israel this Xmas, and then flown back home (Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) without a problem, as I simply arranged for immigration not to stamp my passport on arrival, and at departure. No problem, they were happy to oblige.

Unfortunatly, Arab countries do not feel inclined to reciprocate that action-and that's fine, as it is their decision to make.

Now, coming back to LY, does anyone know whether the Sharon government would be willing to privatise LY, and whether this will mean LY will be able to fly on the Sabbath??

Peace to all. Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:45 am

I found it, yes Israelis are denied entry into gorgeous Malaysia. Reminded me when George M Cohan, the famous composer of "Over There" and "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy, who is not Jewish, requested a reservation at a hotel and received a telegram stating that they could not give him a reservation because they were exclusive, i.e. no Jews. He wired back, "Apparently there has been a mistake on both sides. You thought I was Jewish, and I thought you were gentlemen."

so much for open minds......

rgds
russ
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:31 am

El Al definitely suffers financial losses from the government's policy not to fly during Sabbath. Arkia and Israir can fly during Sabbath because they are privately owned and that is their main advantage over El Al.
I hope LY gets privatized as soon as possible but it can take a while because the Israeli government has some more urgent problems right now.
Anyways I think we should keep politics out of airliners.net .

P.S. I don't think the state of Israel is going anywhere.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:23 am

TWAneedsnohelp, I feel I should point out that Malaysia is a great country to visit, just in case you offend any Malaysians. Secondly, whilst the majority of Israelis and indeed Arabs are perfectly sane, peace loving people, I don't think you can assert that Malaysia is being narrow minded by refusing entry to all Israelis without first doing a lot of homework as to why (i.e. the safety of the Israelis for one). For example, does Israel allow entry to passport holders from Malaysia? I think not, and it doesn't take a genius to work out why. However, as the last few posts have quite rightly pointed out, this forum is to be used solely for the purpose of discussing airliners and not politics, so we will steer well away from that area and hope that one day we will live in a society that no longer refuses to accommodate somebody on the basis of their nationality and religion. This applies equally to Arab/Moslem states and to Israel.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:12 am

TWAneedsNOhelp, so much for open minds... Prat.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:12 pm

"I mean do the dates May 1948, October 1956, June 5-10 1967, and October 1973 mean anything to you?"

And you forgot to mention 1982 and Osirak back in 1981.

Isreal isn't going to fall just because of some rock throwing protesters. The Palistinians are just screwing themselves over because now that they got Sharon in (if it wasn't for the violence he wouldn't of been elected) it will be years and years before they get as far as they were when they started this whole thing, that is, if they ever get that close to peace again.

Whistler
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:02 pm

Ryan74b-Funnily enough you can get into Israel
on a Malaysian passport so it is not reciprocal
 
chepos
Posts: 5938
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sat Feb 17, 2001 11:42 pm

I dont get it why is it that u can fly Cairo-Tel Aviv with ELAL and not to Malaysia and Indonesia . Well they have there ideals . Anyway those the Cairo-Tel Aviv flight go full most of the times cause I cant imagine the low loads that this flight must have .
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Guest

Palestinian Airlines

Sun Feb 18, 2001 12:10 am

Well we have heard how this fighting is affecting El Al....

BUT...

How is the fighting affecting the operations of Palestinian Airlines and the Gaza International Airport?

Any info appreciated.

Cheers

Scotty
 
chepos
Posts: 5938
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 2:28 am

That is a very good point . Im not sure but I heard that the Israeli authorities have closed down Gaza airport . This is what I heard somewere . If this is true its something very unfair . And I think that Palestinian Airlines out of this conflict must be the most hurt . Palestinian I doubt while this conflict is going on might not grow very much but I wish to see this airline fly all over the world. And reach the status of a world airline.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 2:42 am

You can enter Malaysia with Israeli stamps on your passport. I just recently traveled to KUL and the Malaysian immigration officer stamped the Malaysian stamp on the very same page as my Ben Gurion stamp.

Let's be careful about generalization. When was the last Malay Muslim terrorist attack?
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 4:59 am

wpr8e:

Israel has no relations with Malaysia.

Other countries Israel has no relations with:

Sudan, Chad, Libya, Algeria, Mali, Guinea, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, North Korea, and Cuba.

Israel had Interest Offices in Oman, Tunisia, and Morocco which were closed in October 2000.

rgds
russ
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 5:09 am

I agree with you on the relations, but I still entered Malaysia with Ben Gurion Stamps. To add to that, I have some boarder crossing stamps from Rafah in Egypt (the only place I could have come from is Israel) Taba (the only place I can go is Eliat) and the top of the three boarder crossings into Jordan, I can't remember the name which also indicates that I was in Israel. Although some people may not have Israeli stamps in their passport, if you cross into Jordan or Egpyt the Jordanians or Egyptians will stamp you. I know that the Syrians will not let you into Syria if you have an Egpytian Rafah or Taba stamp.

Incidentily I have also traveled into Dubai, Qatar, Morroco, and Indonesia with the same passport and had no problem.

In case anyone cares, if you have an Israeli stamp or the above mentioned stamps, you can go to the US embassy in Amman or Cairo and they will issue a second passport in two days. They are very liberal about it since this passport shuffle takes place with many backbackers and businessmen/women across the Middle East.

 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:09 am

"This is what I heard somewere . If this is true its something very unfair ."

I think it is fair. Palestine is lucky to even have that airport. Remember, Palestine ISN'T a country. The privilige of an airport was given to them along with the privilage to have limited power over the gaza strip. With the recent violence they have shown that the Palestinian Authority can't handle it and the priviliges were taken away.
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 11:55 am

Couldn't agree more.

 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 12:43 pm

El Al is loosing big time.
 
Early Air
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 3:31 pm

Yes it does, El Al is cutting back on flights because there are not a lit of people that wan to go to Israel at the moment. I was in Israel this past summer, fighting was at an altime low and their was a lot of el al traffic. I think el al should not cut down on their flights, I think they should lower their rates so they could bring more people into Israel. This will help the entrie country economically at the time.
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Sun Feb 18, 2001 5:52 pm

Sure it is affecting ELAL .I wish that they stop this stupid action against the Palastanians and live in
peace . Any political incident has a direct affect in
civil aviation . I think when peace come back it will
be much more better I hope so soon .
 
Guest

RE: Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?

Fri Mar 09, 2001 11:43 pm

"stop this stupid action against the Palestinians"

As I see, chutzpa has no limits.
This forum is SUPPOSED to be apolitical, but accusing and attacking Israel seems to be so fashionable that it's not considered "political" anymore.
Let me first remember you that the Palestinian Authority (PA) has declared this so-called "intifada" against Israel, organizing weekly thousands of attacks. Just some days ago the Palestinian minister of information declared openly what Israel was saying since the beginning: the PA has decided to make this guerilla war right after the Camp David summit in july 2000, i.e. three month before Sharon's walk on the Temple Mount...
Now to civil aviation à la Palestinian: Gaza airport should be closed on a long-term basis, because the PA has violated every agreement that had lead to its construction. Weapons are carried through Arafat int'al airport(!) even in Arafat's own planes and helicopters. This kind of activity is not really "commercial aviation", for which the
airport has been meant; after all, Israel has never accepted to grant the PA a military air base! To utilise for military purposes an infrastructure that was established as a civilian airport (as using civil populations for armed violence...) is unacceptable. So it's far from being "unfair" (as quoted in a previous post) to act against such a situation.
And finally to El-Al: the airline is in very big troubles because of the conflict. Even the new smaller 73Gs and 738s which have replaced some 752s on European routes are flying with a low load factor! The higher insurance fees and oil prices don't allow any fare reduction. Foreign airlines can easily reduce their number of flights to TLV; it's actually just one destination (often profitable) among many others. But for El-Al, obviously, the situation is catastophic.