777boy
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How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 7:20 am

I turned on my scanner today, and started by listening to San Jose Tower. The first thing that I heard was Northwest 129, cleared to land runway 12R. Then, I switched to San Francisco Tower and heard: United 159 heavy, cleared to land runway 28R.

I always thought that all three bay area airports used the same direction runways (28,29,30 or 10,11,12) for landings. It seems like the approaches to 28R at SFO and 12R at SJC would not interfere with each other, but I thought they stayed sychronized anyway.

Anybody know how often this practice is used, or what runways are used for takeoff in SFO?

P.S. SFO is on an ILS to 28R, while SJC is on a visual to 12R.

Matt
 
OPNLguy
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 7:49 am

If the winds and runway conditions (wet/dry) permit, SFO usually stays on 28L and 28R for arrivals, and 01L for 01R for departures. Looking back at today's METARs for SFO, I see nothing that would have forced them off this configuration.

OAK and SJC do indeed usually slave to whatever SFO is on, i.e. 29 at OAK and 30L at SJC, but there can be exceptions. I don't what time NWA129 got into SJC, or where from, but SJC's weather was much better than SFO and OAK, so my guess is that it was just more expedious for ATC/the flight at that moment in time to use 12R.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
777boy
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 7:55 am

I wrote it wrong, it was NW 189.

But anyway, I'm still listening now, and ALL planes into SJC are using 12R.

Is there a website that you use to look at METARs?

Matt
 
Guest

RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:15 am

Matt,

SFO and OAK usually do operate in the same direction, mostly because they are so close (8 miles) that the wind direction is usually the same. This also helps ATC with the flow of aircraft into the Bay Area. The runway in use at SJC has nothing to do with what SFO is doing. It happens quite often (especially in the morning hours) where SJC is landing on 12R and SFO is using the 28's for arrivals. The arrival routes into SJC are the same no matter if they are landing on 12 or 30. If they are landing on 12R at SJC, arrivals still come from the south just as they would if landing on 30L. They fly a downwind leg on the west side of SJC towards Moffett Field and then usually turn back toward SJC in the area of Moffett. This keeps the SJC arrivals out of the way of SFO arrivals.

Richard Silagi
 
Big777jet
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:30 am

SFO approach 28R/L maintain level at 6000ft about 18 miles to SFO near SJC. SJC approach 12R maintain level at 3,000ft about 10 miles. It won't be bother 3,000ft space level each others. I'm sure both Tower or approach controllers are aware of it.

Big777jet

 
777boy
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:50 am

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

I saw out my window that at that time, OAK was using 29.

I didn't think that there would be much of a conflict, but I thought they always stayed in the same direction anyway.

Another weird thing has happened. I think that I just heard a plane cleared to land on one of the 19s in SFO.

Matt
 
Guest

RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:06 am

Matt,

Planes land on the 19's at SFO all the time in the winter especially as a weather front approaches. It is the reverse of the normal 28/1's operation. Planes land on the 19's and depart on the 10's. This makes the approach in OAK interesting since the will be using 11 for landing and planes descending into SFO pass over the north end of Oakland Airport at about 3000' with the arrivals to 11 at OAK ducking underneath them. What is really fun is when they are landing on the 1's. That is when planes do a Kai Tak style approach and turn less than a mile final over Peninusla Hospital. Normally only happens once or twice a year when conditions are just right.

Richard Silagi


Richard
 
modesto2
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 9:36 am

I was fortunate enough to experience a 11 approach to OAK. This was back in December on a AA MD-80. On finals, a 19 bound aircraft flew right over our plane. It was quite an experience. Also, the Hadly 2 arrival takes you over the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges. I looked into downtown SF and saw the "Ghiradelli" sign. Very nice...a memorable flight!
 
A330300
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 11:55 am

Hi Matt- I was on a UA LAX-SJC flight this morning, and we did indeed land on 12R. We went a bit west of the airport, but I believe parallel to 30, then as we flew over Moffett, we made a hard right turn to line up with 12R. I could see Dumbarton in the distance, so we weren't too close to the SFO approach path. Usually, the a/c bound for SFO are at about 10-12,000 to the south of Mission Peak, and OAK bound a/c are at 6,000 are north of Mission Peak aren't they? So that supports most of the other posts- altitude separation, and physical flight path separation. Unfortunately, channel 9 was not available today due to a check ride, so I missed one of the more interesting approaches I've had.
 
AAR90
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:20 pm

>The runway in use at SJC has nothing to do with what SFO is doing.

Actually, SJC on 12R forces SFO to not use Tipp Toe Visual 28L unless no aircraft on 12R downwind leg.

>It happens quite often (especially in the morning hours) where
>SJC is landing on 12R and SFO is using the 28's for arrivals.

Yep. Winds up the Santa Clara Valley force SJC onto 12R configuration, but die down by the time they reach OAK/SFO to the point that they maintain steady state below 10 knot tailwind limits of most airlines. OAK/SFO remain on normal configuration knowing SJC will eventually shift to 30L later in the morning.

>The arrival routes into SJC are the same no matter if they are landing
>on 12 or 30. If they are landing on 12R at SJC, arrivals still come from the
>south just as they would if landing on 30L.

Nope. 30L arrivals fly up the west side of the valley along the localizer final approach course. 12R arrivals fly over Santa Cruz Mountains very near HWY-17 summit, Cupertino and Sunnyvale.

>This keeps the SJC arrivals out of the way of SFO arrivals.

SJC 12R downwind leg is very near SFO southern arrival corridor which flys over Stevens Creek Reservoir. Much too close for radar controller's comfort (and legality) which forces altitude constraints upon SFO arrivals (for comfort _and_ legalities). Don't forget that in this same area are the northern arrivals into SJC flying roughly overhead HWY-280.

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
c72
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RE: How Can This Happen: SFO 28R, SJC 12R?

Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:45 pm

I was at SJC today and did see SFO bound a/c coming in from the east as if they were to land on the 28's as SJC was using 12R.

Steve