Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2011
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:09 am

Out of the following US Start-up airlines, which one do you think will most likely survive?

Crystal Airways http://www.crystalairways.com
Northern Airlines http://www.flynorthern.com
Legacy Airlines http://www.flylegacy.com
HeartLand Airlines http://www.heartlandairlines.com
Cardinal Airlines http://www.cardinalairlines.com

I think Crystal has the best chance, if not, none of them will ever get off the ground. What do you think?
 
l'espace180
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:35 am

Crystal seems to have the best chances...
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:38 am

From what I heard Heartland was already out the window, at least as an "all first class" carrier. (check Planebusiness.com, small fry's message board.) Don't know where they got the info for sure.

As for the others thats worth looking into, I wasn't aware a few of them existed. Thanks for posting the links, i'll definitely, look into those.
 
KLM747
Posts: 622
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 2:07 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:56 am

I kind of think Crystal has the best chace too.  Big grin

KLM747 Big grin
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:19 am


None of them.

 
blink182
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:17 am

If one does survive, i bet it will be Crystal. However, I really don't think any has a chance to survive.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:32 am

Crystal is tacky but fun!  Big thumbs up
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:37 am

After checking out the links above, I'd have to agree with you all on Crystal. It looks to be the most developed plan, and a few of the other sites are shut down which doesn't help promote a good image (especially Legacy...Ouch).

Cardinal may actually not be a horrible idea since they plan to start small with only one destination but Melbourne, FL? Is there really enough business traffic to support an all first class carrier's hub. I don't see it getting off the ground.

Why all these all 1st class start-ups? I understand that they want to offer something better at a lower price but this is hard to pull off. ie Legend and the many others who've tried.
 
Guest

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:41 am

Well, Id have to say Crystal, Heartland is gone... Where was America West in that group, i think their days are numbered.

 
Early Air
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:51 am

I dont think any one of them have a chance. However, i like the looks of crystal. I will fly them before they shut down.
 
us330
Posts: 3407
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 12:12 pm

Cardinal may also have a fairly good chance of succeeding. Melbourne is an untapped market and it would be interesting to see how they fair.
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 12:16 pm

Cardinal and Crystal's ideas sounded okay until the part about being all first class. Remember Legend? I think Florida is a good market for a low fare carrier, not just a carrier that offers first class for the price equal to the ones offered by the majors. Most people tend to buy tickets based on fares.

BH346
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 12:23 pm

Based on the websites, Northern and Legacy are DOA. Especially Legacy.
Crystal seems to have some legitimacy, but I'd been shocked if they get off the ground, and if they do, I'd be even more shocked if they made it five years without going Chapter 11.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Thu Feb 22, 2001 3:02 pm


As mentioned earlier, Crystal and Cardinal's business plans don't fit where they are based. All first-class airlines based in Florida? What are you kidding? Everyone knows FL is a big leisure destination, and the yields there are somewhat low. If you don't believe me look at all the low-fare carriers flying into Florida right now:

jetBlue
AirTran
ATA
Southwest
Delta Express
Metrojet
Spirit
Frontier
Midway

That alone tells you what kind of market they're in. They're better off just trying to run a discount carrier out of there or relocating somewhere else.

As for America West, excuse you? Why should they be on that list? They started up almost 18 years ago,they are not a planned start-up and are not in any serious trouble.I don't know where you're getting you're info. but AWA's days are far from numbered.
 
Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2011
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:21 am

I like Crystal's chances. It seems they are the only one that accualy do plan to fly. The other airlines don't even have a route plan or even a starting date.

I'm sure Crystal will do well in TPA. The Tampa Bay area isn't only beaches and Hotels, but Tampa, St. Petersburg and Clearwater are all major business cities.
 
Guest

RE: Who Will Survive?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 9:38 am

I can hope AW will go down, cant I? I am tired of hearing all the complaints about that poor excuse for an airline. I hope they get ate up by a good airline and make a real hub of CMH, an airport and city worthy of having a DECENT airline hub there... Personally, I dont think CMH wants AW there, puts a bad image on the city.

 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:07 pm


Well they did have a good hub operation there a few years ago and it had to be cut down because they were losing money. CMH isn't a big enough city for a real hub operation. If they do get "ate up" the first thing the airline would do is drop CMH like a bad habit. I'm sorry you're tired of hearing complaints, but you've never flown the airline have you? So how are you going to pass judgement? Whatever dude.

CactusA319
Where AWA pays da bills...
 
Guest

RE: Who Will Survive?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 6:19 am

No, your right in ONLY ONE aspect. I havent flown America West. Why would I when there are a bunch of other airlines out there that are much better. I wouldnt waste my money or time. CMH has over 600,000 residents and probably close to a million in the metro area. CMH would make a good hub for an airline. Obviously, AW cant figure that out.
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 9:29 am


Yeah CMH would make a good hub for an airline. Just not a major one.

 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Who Will Survive?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 11:00 am

None of them will survive I believe. A year from now, we might have the three giants (assuming AA-TW, UA-US and CO-DL), then NW, WN, AW, etc. making up a second tier and JetBlue, AirTran, Midway, etc. making up a third tier (The tiers are in amounts of size). It has been pretty amazing (in my opinion) that some of these recent upstarts have remained in the game for this period of time.

Jeff
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: Who Will Survive?

Sun Feb 25, 2001 3:39 am

I know this is going into a completely different subject, but there seems to be some discussion about America West's situation in Columbus.

As CactusA319 said, America West did have a good hub in Columbus. The main reason it has slowly been deteriorating is not because of a lack of demand from Columbus. America West itself caused the lack of need for their operations in CMH. In it's early stages, America West's Port Columbus hub provided the airline's only service to Washington National, and made their meagerly served cities of Boston, Philadelphia, and New York much more accessible. There routes were doing very well, flying with A320 and 757 aircraft daily. However as time progressed, America West added more and more frequencies to the East Coast from Phoenix and Las Vegas, without countering this expansion in the West by adding flights to smaller cities in the East from Columbus. Needless to say, the connecting passengers from the West no longer needed Columbus to get to their final destination in the East. America West began to downsize aircraft and the number of available flights. Though the key factor is that the did NOT pull out of Columbus. Why? Because they realized that Columbus does have a strong passenger base that they can still serve profitably. Now, America West is flying CRJ's to Hartford, Baltimore, and Chicago almost completely full daily WITHOUT connecting traffic. It's almost all O&D traffic. So, just imagine the possibilities if America West were to attempt to apply a regional feed in Columbus, and begin operating to only one or two more Western cities, such as San Francisco or San Diego. The regional feed was tried when the hub was first started, which I believe was a poor decision, since the airline was attempting to gain passengers immediately from cities strongly held by other carriers. Though what irks me most is America West's lack of INITIATIVE. So many opportunities have been made available, such as USAirways' discontinuing of their CMH-GRR route, which Skyway immediately took. It is quite clear that the hub in Columbus is only as profitable as America West makes it. The other airlines serving Columbus continue to expand to meet the ever-increasing demand in the Columbus market, yet America West remains virtually stagnant. Only the future will tell what will happen with America West in Columbus.

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