SInGAPORE_AIR
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Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:58 pm

News Update soon
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
KLM747
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 8:59 pm

Wow, I thought BA would be a great airline for it, well I'll wait until you get more info.  Wink/being sarcastic

KLM747 Big grin
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:00 pm

BA says Airbus jet not viable: Won't order A380
Financial Post - Canada; Feb 22, 2001
BY ANDREA ROTHMAN



GENEVA - British Airways PLC said it has decided against buying Airbus Industrie's new A380 because it thinks there are too few routes that require very large jets and because the aircraft would have a low resale value.

BA spent several months studying the possible uses for the 550-seat plane before concluding it wasn't viable, said Dick Wyatt, head of fleet planning for Europe's largest airline.

"We are not ordering the A380," Mr. Wyatt told aircraft finance bankers at a conference. "There's very few routes that suit large aircraft and we believe that markets will continue to fragment."

The decision is a setback for the European aircraft maker, which has included BA on its list of potential A380 customers.

"No question it's a blow to Airbus," said Doug McVitie, managing director of Arran Aersopace, a consulting company in Scotland. "But the program won't be affected because Airbus already has put together a launch base with blue-chip customers like Singapore Airlines, so other airlines are bound to follow."

Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Qantas, Emirates Airlines, FedEx Corp. and International Lease Finance Corp. have agreed, along with Singapore Air, to buy a total of 60 superjumbos. Airbus is negotiating with Lufthansa AG and others for further orders for the plane, which cost US$12-billion to develop.

Airbus declined to comment.

BA has been reducing the size of its planes, moving from Boeing Co.'s 747s to smaller 777s, so it can concentrate on higher-paying business travellers and stop carrying as many economy-class passengers. But the congested airports in many Asian cities and at its Heathrow International hub made it necessary to consider the A380.

Mr. Wyatt said BA looked at using the plane on Singapore-to-London routes, where it competes against Singapore Air(It's Airlines!), which has ordered as many as 25 A380s. But under the scenarios put together by a group of BA managers, the numbers just didn't work. (Ah! Shame, pity!)

BA also would have been leery of making an investment six years before the expected entry of the plane into service, he said, because of the "rapidly changing" airline environment.


All Material Subject to Copyright

(My bold and comments in italic and brackets!)
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Ikarus
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:22 pm

"where it competes against Singapore Air(It's Airlines!)"

LOL!

Says someone with the username Singapore Air!

Hehehe  Big grin  Big grin

Sorry, but I couldn't help this comment. I just had to make it.

PS: Thanks for the news. It is interesting to hear that BA doesn't want the A380.
 
rabenschlag
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:33 pm

if BA does not need it, Lufthansa hardly would. LH has even less high density routes than BA.

The argument that used A380 will be hard to sell is an interesting one. Why wouldnt charter airlines be eager to stuff their pax in such big ones? Normally, they have the least problems filling even the last seat. So they could really profit from low seatmile costs.


Rabenschlag

 
WorldTraveller
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 9:43 pm

Sorry, but I just have the impression that BA can't make up its mind these days...

Increase capacity...cut capacity, 3 classes...4 classes etc.

And, because of the "rapidly changing" airline environment, how can they predict now that they won't need the A380 in 2006?

OK, BA has done its evaluations and they say no to the A380 at the moment. Accept that.

Virgin, Singapore, Qantas, Air France, Emirates have done the math too and ordered the A380.

Well, we'll see who are the lucky winners in a couple of years...

BTW, the BA announcement is definately a blow to Boeing too, since I can't see BA ordering the B747X now, they'll order B772/B773 in order to cut capacity.


Best regards
the WorldTraveller
 
JAL
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:28 pm

I'm hoping that BA will operare both the 777 and
the 747X.

It would be great!!!!!!!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
ap305
Posts: 976
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:36 pm

Imho this is nothing more than BA trying to get the a380 on suitable terms.I would not be suprised if BA changes it's mind after further studies(basicaly Airbus agreeing to the price BA wants to pay).Despite all the 777/747 swapping that is going on now i belive that BA needs a large capacity aircraft if it wants to take on the ever-growing Virgin.


ap305
 
cedarjet
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:44 pm

BA will be forced to get the A380 eventually. I also predict a sing back to carrying more low-yield passengers. Here's why: students and young people fly a lot and if they have the chance to sample an airline a few times they will develop a certain loyalty which continues as they get older and fly for business when they give up their Marxist ideals and become corporate raiders. If a person's flying experience revolves around Virgin or SQ or whatever, they will be more likely to think of them again. If BA reduce their Economy capacity then I think it's fair to say that awareness of them in the marketplace will be reduced because less people will have the chance to experience their service.

It makes sense to me, BA are already the most expensive choice in Economy and as a result I haven't flown them for ten years. I don't tend to travel in Business Class or at other people's expense but even when someone else is paying (work etc) it never occurs to me to choose them, I choose the airlines I know, ie Virgin, Emirates, Gulf Air, Cathay et al.

Airliners.net contributors are unusual in that we tend to want to fly airlines we haven't flown before, but 99% of travellers stick to what they know and there is no reason why those patterns don't begin as soon as they start travelling for the first time, ie as a backpacking discount low-yield fare.

My last flight with Virgin weren't that hot but BA have never shown much intelligence in their plannng decisions and this focus on high yield is no exception.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
DatamanA340
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Thu Feb 22, 2001 11:52 pm

Nothing special. BA just cannot see any optimistic point, and Virgin or SQ not. Does any carrier sees routes that 380 is really needed? No. I haven't heard that any route is operated solely by cramped 747, or had load factor of almost 100%. Usage of 380 or other VLAs is to make, not to be prepared.

Na said well. BA is pessimistic and on the decline. And if one carrier doesn't need 380s, it doesn't need 747X too.
 
Notarzt
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Fri Feb 23, 2001 12:20 am

Well... considering the "big silence" following Airbus' launch of the A380, I am really wondering about the future of the program. Not to be underestimated that FedEx signed a LoI only.

Daniel
 
cedarjet
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Fri Feb 23, 2001 12:45 am

Dataman, actually there are loads of 747 routes that are always full - most of them to Heathrow. Every trans-Atlantic route between June and the end of September, Japan and SE Asia esp Singapore and Hong Kong, Australia. Plus many routes within SE Asia.

The increase in capacity is only 25%, whereas the 707 to 747 leap in capacity was more like 150%.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Joni
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RE: ***Official - BA Will Not Buy A380***

Fri Feb 23, 2001 12:56 am


Notzart,

What "big silence" are you referring to? Do you think that Airbus could sell (or produce) 10 A380 planes every month? We know that there are several airlines that are relatively likely to place orders for the plane this year:

Atlas Air
Cathay Pacific
Lufthansa
etc.

If they order 20-30 planes among themselves, it's already very food for Airbus, since first flight will still be ages away and the order books are already fat.

 
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RayChuang
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 1:02 am

I think right now BA does not see a need for a plane as big as the A380-800. The reason is simple: they're going after premium passengers with their upgraded First Class, Club World and World Traveller seating sections, and they don't need a plane as big as the A388 to do this. BA has enough 747-400's and 777-200ER's to cover this class of passenger.

I do think that BA will order the A388, but they won't get their first planes until around 2010 or so. The BA A388's will primarily be used on their busiest routes: LHR to NRT, HKG, SYD via SIN, JNB, JFK, LAX and SFO.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:48 am

"Picture this, we were butt naked on the shower or something" Never mind, just a song

Picture this, BA744 flies to SIN, SQ388 flies to SIN.

People are going to choose the A380 no matter what airline (in a sense you know what I mean!) as it's more luxurious? Are BA shooting themselves in the foot? I hope so, but if they see no need for the aircraft they won't buy it and as Mr Wyatt said, BA numbers don't add up when using the A380 on the LHR - SIN route where it directly competes with... Singapore Airlines - A Great Way To Fly!!... and so, is there only space for one A380? ( it is big enough!)

i think leave BA to it. If they don't need it fine. Or maybe, Airbus' price is too high? Or maybe BA is just following it's business plan of being a business airline with low capacity.


And my user name! I use Singapore_Air as Singapore_Airlines doesn't fit. Never mind. But nice of you to think of me Ikarus
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 2:48 am

Singapore_Air,

Are you an idiot?

1) How do you know that the A380 is more luxurious?
2) Taking your conclusion to the end, why would anyone fly the 777 or A340 over a 747? Just cause it is bigger doesn't make it nicer.
3) This plane is a bie ego boost. Let's face it, yields are falling and they are going to put more capacity on their networks. You are going to make more money filling smaller planes with higher yields than filling large planes with too many seats with junk. Take a look at AA, DL, CO, and BA they have got it right.

Singapore Airlines has some of the lowest yields in the business. They have very long haul flights with low fares. The farther you go does not translate into proportional higher fares.

 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 2:57 am

Here is a very good post made by an individual on another website, but on the same topic:

"BA is chasing yield, which is FAR more profitable than chasing pure numbers, as most american airlines have found out. That means they are after the business man. that five percent of the pax pay more than 40 percent of the revenue on average. The business man wants to go NOW, not in 4 hours, so the fact that that they have multiple departures between a city pair is a good thing not a bad thing. Its a sign of a money making route. If they do it with smaller airplanes is a sure sign of a moneymaker.
The only case where it would make a difference is if there were SIMULTANEOUS departures, then there would be a case for a larger aircraft. There are a couple of city pairs that have this, but its less than 10 I think.

Ideally to chase the businessman you want to go no less frequently than hourly service. As the economy becomes more global airservice will continue to develope in that pattern.

Take Newyork to Dallas. American airlines runs hourly service from both Laguardia AND Newark to DFW. They do it with MD80s mostly. They could very easily do it every 2-3 hours with a 777, and you would think that it would be more efficient, and it would be. The costs would go down, but the YIELD would go down even further and American would make less money, not more.

An airline makes its money on yield, not pax count, as BA learned 2 summers ago when the aircraft were still full and they lost big dollars. The US airlines learned that in the early 90s, you can fill an aircraft and still lose money."





 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 3:03 am

Well, this is cause for celebration! Looks like they're going to go with Everett's superior product Big grin
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 3:55 am

I think the reason why BA doesn't need the A380-800 is simple: they're already doing extremely well with their upgraded First, Club World and World Traveller full-fare classes.

Think about it: how airlines in the world have cubicle-like seating with fold-flat beds for their Business class travellers? How about ONE? I mean, does the Business class seating on AA, AF, CO, DL, JL, KE, LH, NW, OZ, QF, SQ, UA and VS offer anything akin to Club World?

BA is cutting their 747-400 fleet because they realize they don't NEED 50 744's. They can get by with about 38-40 744's and buy more 777-200ER's when their priority is going after First and Club World passengers.
 
Archie Bunker
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 5:55 am

How did Continental (CO) become profitable?

By chasing after the "suits" rather than the "sandals and backpackers" (or Europeans, only jokin'  Big grin)....meaning, high yield passengers.
 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 6:17 am

Archie Bunker

We are only too aware of THOSE types of pax. I believe they are known as the "bucket and spade brigade" on this side of the Atlantic! Big grin

Cheers
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 6:28 am

Wpr8: I've just noticed your post

I am not an idiot, repeat, i am not an idiot

Secondly, Singapore Airlines may have a low yield. However, it came fifth in the world's airlines for net profit in the 1999 year! Above the airlines you mentioned, except for AA, I think I'll have to check that out.

Anyway, I'll rephrase for you to keep you happy

The A380 has the biggest potential out of all the airliners to be the most luxurious.

Happy?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 7:05 am

It's official.........today!
This time next year or 6 months from now, who knows? It seems that BA are going in circles. Of this you can be sure: Sometime in this decade BA WILL be flying the A380 or Boeing 747X. I would not get too worked up about this press release because with the firing of a few executives and the hireing of new ones, everything can change. This announcement only improves their chance of getting the deal of the century from Airbus or Boeing.
I have no memory of this place.
 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 3:50 pm

Some of you critisize BA for this decision, the only statement I have for that is , Don't you think BA knows more about what they need more than you do?


Back on topic, Ba has made a basic decision, to stick with Boeing. They seem to like Boeing widebodys better than Airbus, but just like United, have a hige fleet of small Airbus's.


Here's a list of airlines not to expect to order A380: (in my opinion)

United
Northwest
American
JAL
ANA
Continental
British Airways
Atlas Air
Southwest (LOL)
KLM

 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 5:01 pm

None of us said 'BA needs 380s'. As I mentioned, 'need' is not to exist, but to make. ** IF BA EVEN MAKES ITSELF AS 'IMPERIAL' AIRWAYS BY REPLACING ALL FLEET BY SMALLER AND LONGER-RANGE AIRCRAFTS, WHO WILL BLAME IT? Just leave BA and take Virgin or others with cheaper tickets. BA makes money by higher yield, and others make money by more pax. Singapore sells so cheap tickets, but it makes money for 25 380s and 60+ 777s.

Which way one carrier takes, anyone won't care.

postscript. If BA doesn't need 380s and buys 747Xs or other VLAs, BA just lied to you all. This official comment is not good to Boeing, either. Boeing lost one of the most expected 'launch costomer' for 747Xs.
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

Luxury On The A380/747 And BA

Sat Feb 24, 2001 8:11 pm

When the 747 was launched in 1969 there was lots of hype about inflight bars,gyms and offices and all that kind of stuff,but did that ever come about?The closest we have got is Virgins bar for upper class passengers and MAS business centre on the 777.I dont think airlines will fill their A380s to look like a shopping mall and only fit about 400 passengers in when they can scap the inflight hairdressers and fit more passengers in.Airlines make money from passengers but not an inflight Vidal Sassoon.
There are not enough routes in the world at the moment which would support A380s.The busiest routes in the world are the Atlantic crossings and 60% of those are flown by 767s.Larger aircraft would also mean more inflight attendents and higher operating costs.The main draw card for the 747 was its range not its size.It could do west coast to japan non-stop and only the Dc10 and tristar could do that.Most US carriers back then found it to big and still do.
BA at the moment is concentrating on their first and club passengers which makes sense since that an airline flying LHR-JFK can make a profit even if every one of its economy class seats are empty.First and club fares range from as much as 200%-500% more then economy class fares yet do these passengers gobble up twice the space?And in economy who pays the full fare,most people get away with discounted tickets.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sat Feb 24, 2001 11:05 pm

I still think that if Boeing has NOT launched the 747X project by this time next year both UA and NW may be serious candidates to buy the A380-800.

The reason is simple: their always-strong routes to Asia. UA and NW flights to NRT, SEL, PEK, PVG, TPE and HKG tend to be very full most of the year. So much so that even through a ticket consolidator based in a large Asian community you have to purchase tickets as much as 2-3 months in advance to get a seat! The last time my mom flew to HKG on SQ she had to buy her tickets two months in advance.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:02 am

Travel agents are tellingm e to buy my tickets return to SGN a year in advance! A YEAR! THey say it's because they can't get me on the LHR - SIN - LHR leg of the journey.

Oh well, probably everyone wants to fly SIA since they're so good! That's Life!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
donder10
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:08 am

BA have like 8 heathrow-kennedy flights a day--all 747-400's.If they got a 380 then they could use say 1 380 for 2 744 flights!They could still get the high yield of first/business class by having big numbers of this class of seat on board. Just my thought!!! :d
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:16 am

The time is here: You have to decide. You can decide right, or you can decide wrong.
Who's to judge? We'll have to wait a few years. My opinion: BA is wise to wait, not wise to tarry.....

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 4:25 am

Some people are missing the point here; the fact is that BA appears to WANT multiple flights a day to high-yield destinations, and DOESN'T want to substitute 8x daily B744 service to JFK for example, with a 4x daily A380 service.

My first post outlines the reason why BA wants frequent point-to-point services on a/c with high F/J class availability and low Y class availability, rather than less frequent, hub-and-spoke type services.

They're basically giving the Business traveller maximum flexibility, which is exactly what he wants, and what he will get with BA's new strategy.

Makes perfect sense to me; a lot of people here seem to think BA has gone mad, how dare they not buy the A380.

Maybe they WILL need the A380 in the future; present forecasts don't point that way though.

Maximum profit at minimum cost, that is the game every private airline plays; state-owned airlines are a completely different story.
 
wingman
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:45 am

Some people aren't so hot at mathematics. How do you replace two 744s with one 380? Two loaded 744s carry 840 passengers. One loaded 380 carries 550 passengers. By the same token, three 744s carry 1260 passengers while two 380s carry 1100. I think you see where I'm headed now. If you're strategy is to expand capacity while reducing the number of required slots, you cannot achieve this goal until you've replaced five 744s with four 380s (2100 pax vs. 2200). So in the end, and in my humble opinion, using the slot restriction/pax growth argument to "explain" why airlines and airports "need" the 380 is very weak indeed.

 
V1-Rotate
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 11:12 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 12:39 pm

Capt Picard,
Thank-you.You've saved abroken cpu and a bruised hand.
Does anyone else have the slightest idea about why airlines do what they do ?
YIELD.......I repeat.....YYYYYIIIIIEEEELLLLDDD!
This is business,cut-throat at least!
You don't make money filling planes with cheap tickets!
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:11 pm

Point to Point once again. Do you really think that an airline which can only operate in LHR establish a real PTP network? Everyone must fly to LHR, and beyond. (Although it's just problem of UK-US, but no one would think BA would operates Manchester-Tokyo or Glasgow-Singapore.)

Wingman. how about 5 380 daily returns instead of 8 by 747? How about weekly and co-operation with AA?

V1-Rotate. There is no airline who fills all of seats with cheap travellers, though I'm tend to be the one.
 
Guest

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:00 pm

Of course they have a PTP network (doesn't have be to long-haul).

What are all those BA a/c doing in BHX, MAN, GLA and EDI then, not to mention LGW, which is another long-haul base.

They are all flying to Europe from the REGIONS, rather than London. That is PTP, even if it is within the same country.

Long-haul PTP within the UK is limited to very high-yield routes (JFK, DXB-codeshare with EK ex-MAN).

Then there are the "shuttles" which occur. Until recently, we had EZE-SCL, we had GIG-GRU, HKG-TPE
NBO-DAR, NBO-SEZ, etc.

PTP is ideally what BA would like. The fact that the ops are more H&S from LHR, is a testament to that airport's popularity.
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:41 pm

HA, was PTP so? So, what's the problem for 380 and PTP? Everyone knows London-New York can feed even hourly 380 service. And no one would order to operate 380 for London-Phoenix.
 
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RayChuang
Posts: 8028
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Sun Feb 25, 2001 11:07 pm

Folks,

I think it will be interesting to see what happens when the Bermuda II agreement is replaced by a new air rights agreement between the USA and the UK. This is especially in light of the approval and construction of LHR's Terminal 5, which may start work within the next 12 months.

Because T5 will (I think) have over 40 gates devoted exclusively to BA operations, this will free up a LOT of gates on the older terminals. That will finally allow more airlines to fly to LHR; don't be surprised if one of the older LHR terminals is rebuilt specifically for US-based airlines (AA, CO, DL and UA may use that terminal exclusively).

I see BA using T5 as a true O&D hub to feed European regional flights from their long distance flights without having to change terminals or go through Customs & Immigration. I can see one part of T5 being where all the 747-400's and 777-200ER's will congregate and another part of T5 where all the flights to other parts of the UK and to mainland European destinations will congregate.

BA, in my opinion, does not yet need the A380 with their current emphasis on premium passenger operations. They will get the A380, but only after 2010 when the sheer growth in passenger traffic will demand it on routes from LHR to JFK, ORD, LAX, SFO, JNB, NRT, HKG, SIN and the one-stop flight to SYD.
 
wingman
Posts: 2901
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Official - BA Will Not Buy A380

Mon Feb 26, 2001 8:43 am

Dataman,

What is 5 X 550?
2750

What is 8 X 420?
3360

So what happens to the extra 610 passengers? What happened to the explosive growth problem? What happened to the slot limitation problem?

Using the incremental capacity of the 380 to solve this "problem" is like placing a band-aid on a severed artery. It just won't solve anything. The only way to accomodate air traffic growth is to improve ATC, expand existing airports, or build new airports in growing cities for PTP service. The math is simple and the solutions are obvious, painful and expensive as they may be.

The 380, if Airbus comes through on all its predictions, will be a wonderful aircraft with lower operating costs and excellent profit margin (when fully loaded). But it will do absolutely nothing to solve growth and congestion. Using your standard of eight 744s, you only carry at least an equal number of passengers with seven 380s (six 380s still carries less than eight 744s).
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: Wingman

Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:00 pm

So, BA's 747s carry 420 pax? I believed it was 380 or around, but maybe it's wrong. Don't remained as not knowing that 380 has 1.5x or more deck area than 744. If BA configures its 744s to have 420 seats, 380s will have 650 seats.

And, first of all, didn't you all argue 380's future, because 'it's too large plane' so 'reduces the frequency'? And 'no reduction of air traffic'? Ha!

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